DDD Social: we livin' in smash 4

Jupz said:

Why do you have to main him? I love him

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That's why.
I don't have sirius picture of myself sorry. >_>

I use the purple color.

original color works fine for me. Maybe white if I'm a bit chilly.

As much as I love May, she doesn't fit my play style

I'm maining A.B.A now.



Great grabs, long range, and is a woman (DDD is the only non-woman character I play in anygame where I can play a woman lololol)

ALL D3 dittos are gay, because on the down throw, balls touch.

lmao, that pic of club peguin on page one is full of win xD

Yeah I got ***** 90% of the time lol.
I've still got a lot to learn, like using the fast-falled Nair, using better the swallow.
By the way serin your Stagespike to footstool finish kill was too sexy.

http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=7972130&postcount=873

This post has made me solid. MK should be banned.

I really don't know what to think about this debate.
The exact problem of MK is, even if he can be beaten if you're better than your opponent, he has NO counters in the chars, NO counters in the stage.
He makes the secondaries and the stages counterpicks useless.
But he still can be beaten....

Yeah, I really don't know what to think, but I think that the pro-bans arguments are better than the anti-bans ones.

I'm just sick of people talking about it frankly.

Tekk said:

I really don't know what to think about this debate.
The exact problem of MK is, even if he can be beaten if you're better than your opponent, he has NO counters in the chars, NO counters in the stage.
He makes the secondaries and the stages counterpicks useless.
But he still can be beaten....

Yeah, I really don't know what to think, but I think that the pro-bans arguments are better than the anti-bans ones.

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Here, maybe this article by Fiction will change your mind.

MK IS BROKEN

I will begin by defining the term “broken.” While it may be used differently by numerous forums and communities, I’m going to make up a special definition simply for this argument.

Broken: A word used to describe an element in a video game that does belong. It is above the level of the game and its mechanics and renders the game virtually uncompetitive without the use of said element.

My argument is that the character Meta Knight (referred to from now on as “MK”) is broken and should not be allowed in tournaments or competitive Brawl.

Let’s start with his moveset. Most movesets, no matter how good they are, have downsides. Holes or weaknesses in a characters moveset lead to their downfall, as an enemy can exploit these weaknesses to their advantage. Certain characters can exploit the weaknesses in other characters movesets better than others, which is where bad matchups come along (which is why MK has no bad matchups). I’ll now go through the properties of MK’s moveset, and show why his moves were designed with no holes, no flaws, nothing to abuse. With the show of this ample evidence, I think it is provable that MK’s moveset is not in line with the rest of the cast, and he does not belong as a character in competitive play.

1. His sword moves are made of transcendent priority
-Transcendent priority means that they will not clash with anything. They have the priority that the Star Fox characters’ lasers have.
-The only moves that MK has that can clash are glide attack, dash attack, and his special moves.




2. Aerials (Oh boy)
Up aerial
-It comes out in 2 frames
-Lasts only 13 frames
-Invincibility on airdodges lasts around 25 frames for most characters, and an entire airdodge lasts from 39 to 49 frames depending on the character. Thus it is impossible to get away from metaknight’s u-air by airdodging. He can do an up air and have at least 10-20 frames to do whatever he wants (if the opponent dodges frame-perfectly)
-Invincibility on spotdodges lasts around 18 frames for most characters, and the entire animation lasts from 22 to 32 frames depending on the character. Even with a frame perfect spotdodge MK has time to throw in another uair or an aerial of his choosing before you can move again.
-Allows for ridiculous combinations of the aerial along with others within a short period of time (such as a short hop).
-At low percents it has ridiculous hitstun and can combo most characters to around 50 percent; and is virtually unDIable for some reason and the MK can chase DI quite easily from it.
-Has enough shieldstun that if MK is repeatedly u-airing someone who is on a platform, they cannot let their shield up. Their only options are to spotdodge or roll, which are both easily punishable by a good MK.
-Hits in nearly a full semi-circle above MK’s head, the far ends hitting out more horizontally. The edges have more horizontal range than the first two hits of MK’s bair.
Neutral Aerial
-Is a kill move, and it comes out in only 3 frames.
-Has multiple hitboxes, allowing it to combo with the weak hit, or hit both hitboxes for around 20 damage.
-Can do two in a single short hop.
-Weak hit can combo into a grounded lock combo.
Down Aerial
-Because of transcendent priority combined with MK’s 5 mid-air jumps makes this the best aircamping move in the game.
-The edges on both the front and back of the hit have semi-spike properties.
-Can be used offstage with MK’s multiple jumps to perfectly edgeguard a large portion of the cast.
Back Aerial
-Multi-hit move that can be easily autocancelled out of a short hop.
-Because of hitstun added into the first and second hits so that the third and final hit will deal its knockback, this move can be landed into the ground and easily combed into an ftilt, dtilt, or grab.
-If autocancelled correctly (not that difficult), an opponent has a shield advantage of only 3 frames. MK’s spotdodge invincibility frames activate on frame 2, giving the opponent 5 frames to hit/grab before the invincibility starts. Grabs take 6 frames to activate, and because of bairs massive range not many up b out of shields can retaliate against it. If you need to drop your shield before hitting MK (drop shield dash grab, etc.), he actually has a 4 frame ADVANTAGE. This means that he can roll away (his roll invincibility activates on frame 4) before you can even finish dropping your shield.
Forward Aerial
-Very fast if SH FF autocancelled.
-The tip of the third hit of the blade is a semi-spike, allowing for edgeguarding with a multi-hit move.
-Transcendent priority combined with its fast multi-hit properties allow it to be used defensively to cut through most, if not all approaches.
-If autocancelled correctly, the opponent has an 8 frame shield advantage, and a 1 frame shield drop advantage. Insert the numbers into the bair statistics above.



3. Ground Game
Down Tilt
-Comes out in 3 frames (1/20th of a second)
-Can be quickly repeated for combos or extra damage (lasts only 15 frames)
-Has a high probability to trip an opponent, comboing in almost any other move.
-Transcendent priority, combined with its long range and the fact that it inches MK forward, makes this his longest ranged move (excluding the third hit of ftilt)
-Can ground lock
Forward Tilt
-Great range, multi-hit, transcendent priority (the third hit has the same range as Marth’s tipper fsmash)
-Not much to say about this move, but it’s a great ground move that can be used for spacing and building damage very well.
-Can ground lock
-from the MK boards: “What happens here is that the attack pops the character up a bit, and when they land they have 4 frames of landing lag. The advantage mk has here is dependent on how long they are in the air... which is determined by their current percent, weight, and fall speed. This is really a project in and of itself, but from what I looked at the first hit of his ftilt can actually yield a + advantage when your oppenent is in mid-high percent.
Up Tilt
-Surprisingly strong kill move (Snake’s utilt kills MK on a battlefield platform at 98 with no DI, MK’s utilt kills MK on a battlefield platform at 107 with no DI)
-Has massive vertical range, covers direct aerial approaches well.
Jab
-Can build up damage and combo well against a wall.
-Surprising range in front of and above MK
-Can combo into a dsmash depending on DI/percent fairly consistently
-Can ground lock (switch up with dtilt and ftilt)
Forward Smash
-Some startup time, almost no ending lag
-Has an unnaturally large hitbox above, in front of, and even behind MK.
-Nearly unpunishable if used defensively, can be used to edgeguard well.
Down Smash
-Notoriously fast and powerful move (5 frames, high knockback)
-Downside is that it is easily punishable out of shield by most high tiers.
-Hits on both sides, if opponent is DIing badly both hits can combo.
Up Smash
-Definetely not the greatest move in the world.
-Medium knockback, can be used to pop the opponent up out of a run for combos.
Dash Attack
-One of MK’s few moves that actually clashes with other moves.
-MK speeds up on the ground while using it and it comes out in only 5 frames.
-Can literally combo into grabs and other moves at lower percents.


4. Specials
Down Special
-Infinite Dimensional Cape: I think everyone knows what this one is. While you think you may have banned it, it is easy to perform without anyone noticing and make a huge difference on the game.
-A little known fact is that you can tilt the cstick VERY slightly during IDC and it will still affect MK as much as a tapped cstick.
-When MK touches the ground, he gains a small distance on his DC, so a single tap (giving him about a character and a half of extra distance) could easily get him out of a bad situation without anyone noticing.
-Can be used to escape off the ledge onto the stage. Using small amounts of IDC helps a lot here.
-Invincible and invisible while recovering
-Can be used to refresh ledge invincibility faster than his aerial jump.
Side Special
-Incredibly high priority, eats up many moves.
-Has ridiculous vertical and horizontal range, better than most 3 jump character’s up b’s.
-Can edgecancel from its max length to any distance in between by tilting it up or down. This creates a quick, lagless recovery onto platforms.
-Can edgecancel backwards on ledges or platforms, giving more options for non-ledge-snap recoveries.
-If you hit someone halfway through the move you can carry them to the end of it to combo out of it.
-If MK times it right, it can outlast opponent’s invincibility frames on the ledge so that he will always recover.
Neutral Special (ah, the famous tornado)
-High priority, absorbs a high percentage of attacks and projectiles and even goes through some of the cast’s entire moveset.
-Does a lot of damage, and can rack it up quickly.
-Because of its high priority, and its ability to move quickly horizontally, it can be used on many characters more than once in a row to build extra damage.
-You can pressure shields with it and move away safely.
-Gains priority the more you press the b button
-If you end it at the right time, it has 29 frames of lag regardless of height. If you stop the nado at the right height you can land with 0 to very few lag frames on the ground.
-Goes through spotdodges, rolls, airdodges, because of its long lasting, giant hitbox and its ability to chase aerial movement.
-Doubles as an incredible horizontal recovery (with a decent vertical one as well).
Up Special
- Is a different move on the ground or in the air
-Comes out in 5 frames and is invincible frames 5-8, allowing it to avoid grabs if buffered at the same time as an opponent (say a ground release out of a grab)
-If timed right can cut through any approach in the game.
-Has almost no lag and is almost impossible to punish.
-If you cancel it the right distance above the ground you can jump out of his failed cancel animation (no lag from jumping off the ground).
-Aerially comes out very fast (frame 8) and has a powerful hitbox. If you are below or in front of MK at startup you will be semispiked forward, and if you are behind or above him you will be semispiked backwards. A plus to the backwards semispike is that MK can then simply glide back to the stage.
-Has numerous points to sweetspot the ledge making MK’s edgeguarding with this move ridiculous.
-Has crazy knockback at low percents.
-Can still hit opponents for an entire semi circle in front of MK.
-Puts MK into a second glide, allowing him to use multiple glides. Also sets him up higher in the air so that he can gain more momentum.
-You can land on the stage or a platform with the top of the shuttle loop to cancel it instantly. For some odd reason when you do this if you buffer another shuttle loop out of it, you get a another aerial shuttle loop, able to semispike nearby opponents.
6. Other Moves
Glide/Glide Attack
-MK has the second fastest glide in the game but the best control on where he goes.
-He can cancel the glide and fastfall it to have no lag from high glide points.
-He can gain massive positive height on his glide as long as he has space to glide a little lower.
-If he has no space to glide lower the glide adds to his airspeed and allows him to move quickly horizontally in the air.
-His glide attack actually clashes with other moves.
-Because of shuttle loop MK has two glides.
-His glide attack pops the opponent up with a lot of hitstun. It is very good for comboing at low percents and can lead into repeated uair combos on the entire cast.
-If he misses a cancel he has enough momentum that he will slide off platforms and ledges.
-If he doesn’t cancel and doesn’t ledge cancel, he lands in a self tech-chase position, like how Ness and Lucas can pk thunder themselves into the ground. This allows him for self created invincibility options not involving the ledge.


as we see, he is unstoppable at perfect play.

Yeah I've read it, very interresting.
Praxis' posts were convincing too.
I voted for the ban.

EDIT:
CRASHiC
Banned (6 Points)

Uh ?o_O

I thought you thought ZSS was going to be the best character in the game Crashic?

I don't want MK to be banned. I love versing him, and I love playing as him, so I have a biased opinion, but I just don't think hes good enough.

Morning, afternoon, evening all! How are you Jupz?

Good thanks hdrevolution

Its nearly 5pm for me here, whats the time there?

Its 1:17pm in France.
Hahaha my father will let me travel to Paris for the next big french tournament next month, I'm so happy now.

Jupz said:

Good thanks hdrevolution

Its nearly 5pm for me here, whats the time there?

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Please, call me HD

they'll pick up another game and play that.

for the mk ban thing it says it ends on august 8th (i think), if mk is voted out who do you think the mk's will go to. IMHO i say marth, the only match up that was holding him back was against metaknight so i could easily see him rising


we should work on our marth match up discussion

Marth will become a much better character. With his worst matchup gone *the only matchup preventing him from winning national tourneys* he will thrive. A lot of characters that marth has great matchups with will start getting farther in tourneys because mk is gone *gnw,Ics,pikachu*. But as d3 mains we have absolutely nothing to worry about. Well actually that's untrue. With mk gone ice climbers kirby and pikachu will be on the rise and who the hell wants to play a good ice climbers in tournament?

o-Serin-o said:

I do! =3 Pikachu and kirby arent that hard IMO. It all depends on how you play the matchup.

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my brother plays pikachu so once i get good with D3 maybe i will be able to help with the match up against pikachu

Im going to go rewrite the matchup description for pikachu later

thanks albino =) i always lose to my brother

I'm more interrested by the ban of Crashic right now.;B
Why the hell did he get banned ?

If I recall correctly, he was trolling the MK Ban thread.

CRASHiC said:

Want to leave this thread on one last word.

Think of this when you a metaknight plank, when you see a metaknight whorenado, nothing that metaknight is doing is gayer than what ever Spadefox is doing right now.

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CRASHiC said:

**** it, I'm gonna go watch porn.

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He might've had some active points, and these two posts might've tipped him just over the limit, giving him 6.

Yeah, thank you for the informations Straked.
And yeah, we miss you Crashic. >_>