Had0
Smash Cadet
How does this work?
I find Jiggs to be a really hard opponent.
How can I pwn this lil' chub consistently?
I find Jiggs to be a really hard opponent.
How can I pwn this lil' chub consistently?
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Important: Samus Vs Jiggs Matchup
- Thread starter Had0
- Start date
You have to recover very fast, so don't spend too much time in bomb jumping. Try to recover like Samus in Smash 64 and try to go under the level of to stage where Puff can't reach you so easily. You have to be fast and put out a Nair if Puff approaches you
TresChikon
Smash Lord
Space with nairs and bairs.
TheLifeRuiner
Smash Lord
no
just space everything
try not to do slow moves like dash attack (lol) or smash attacks
she will punish, and she will punish hard
melt is pretty much right
try to stay away from bomb recovery
just space everything
try not to do slow moves like dash attack (lol) or smash attacks
she will punish, and she will punish hard
melt is pretty much right
try to stay away from bomb recovery
TresChikon
Smash Lord
Humm.. would tilts be good for spacing?
TresChikon
Smash Lord
Can she punish a predictable SWD game? Her throws aren't that bad imo. or maybe im just missing something?
TheLifeRuiner
Smash Lord
doesn't one of her throws send you really far at like mid-to-high percentages? backthrow?
that's already big reason to not get grabbed...since you're put at a disadvantageous position
i was once rested out of swd
lol
I don't think she can punish someone who SWDs, but then you can't do much either except try and missile her, which probably won't work even on FD
that's already big reason to not get grabbed...since you're put at a disadvantageous position
i was once rested out of swd
lol
I don't think she can punish someone who SWDs, but then you can't do much either except try and missile her, which probably won't work even on FD
Zolios
Smash Apprentice
Missle camping doesn't work at all. I remember this video of a samus missle camping a jiggs on mute city. It ended in the jigglypuff dodging at least 20 missles and taking the stock from mindgames.
I would just try to get jiggs in the air and spam uairs and nairs, then try to connect some smashes. DO NOT GRAB. EVER. You miss a grab you're rested. Also recovery is scary. Be clever with bomb jumps.
I would just try to get jiggs in the air and spam uairs and nairs, then try to connect some smashes. DO NOT GRAB. EVER. You miss a grab you're rested. Also recovery is scary. Be clever with bomb jumps.
TresChikon
Smash Lord
Rest? that's hardcore. I was thinking about spacing D-tilts and D-smash from SWD, but that really only works if she's grounded and could lead to a gay rest setup if she's airborne
TheLifeRuiner
Smash Lord
I don't know if you can "space" a SWD since the only way to stop your movement is by using a b move(?) or bombing. Otherwise you fly off an indeterminable distance - that is, unless you know how to perfectly get every other distance like those small SWDs and the mid-size ones, and then the full-fledged ones that will send you across FD.
I'm kinda doubtful there's anyone THAT technical lol
I would just plain stay away from SWDing if you really intend on getting better. I mean, it kinda defeats the purpose of the "mindgames" of an SWD if you consistently do it to be aggressive.
If you think about it, it's sort of like Jiggz's Rollout. No one does it often, or at all. ONCE in while they'll use it, because they predicted their opponent correctly, and at least that HITS.
I'm kinda doubtful there's anyone THAT technical lol
I would just plain stay away from SWDing if you really intend on getting better. I mean, it kinda defeats the purpose of the "mindgames" of an SWD if you consistently do it to be aggressive.
If you think about it, it's sort of like Jiggz's Rollout. No one does it often, or at all. ONCE in while they'll use it, because they predicted their opponent correctly, and at least that HITS.
TresChikon
Smash Lord
Just walking eats up all the speed of SWD.
Yes, I agree SWD forces you into a plateau. But I find that some matchups like Samus dittos are a big bunch tedious battles withpokes and tilts. And other than grabs, it's hard to punish it, even if tilted, you can CC them.
I mean you're right about getting better, like with Marth or Fox, I've been SWDing straight into a tipped U-tilt or F-smash or devastating shine combos.
I suppose higher levels of play eliminates the possibility of SWD being a viable tactics, but with slower battles with small pokes and such it can be helpful for suffocating the opponent.
EDIT: Oh and I could never do those little sister SWD's
Yes, I agree SWD forces you into a plateau. But I find that some matchups like Samus dittos are a big bunch tedious battles withpokes and tilts. And other than grabs, it's hard to punish it, even if tilted, you can CC them.
I mean you're right about getting better, like with Marth or Fox, I've been SWDing straight into a tipped U-tilt or F-smash or devastating shine combos.
I suppose higher levels of play eliminates the possibility of SWD being a viable tactics, but with slower battles with small pokes and such it can be helpful for suffocating the opponent.
EDIT: Oh and I could never do those little sister SWD's
Mars-
Smash Champion
Who are all of you?
TresChikon
Smash Lord
Just some chicken
TheLifeRuiner
Smash Lord
You tell me
Pi
Smash Hero
O boy jiggs...
You have to be extremely careful
Camp to the point of forcing jiggs to be aggressive
Then you can predict some of her attacks and counter with Ftilt or Utilt
You really can't be aggressive in this matchup because if you miss any attack, a good jiggs is gonna get a hit in
Your whole strategy needs to revolve around NOT missing attacks, unless you're sure you can't get punished
Missiles to bait them into attacking, shield, UB works too but it's risky, be careful with this move, all moves actually, DON'T MISS, jiggs can punish almost any move if she is just out of your reach
Rack up damage any way you can, missiles, un charged shots, homing, homing are good for some damage, juss make sure she's not too close
Nair is probably your best aerial in this matchup, Fair has too many holes, and the jiggs ain't gonna end up above you in shUair range
Like I said, rack up damage any way you can, get your hits in and don't bother about following up
If jiggs doesn't wanna approach
Charge your shot, predict her jumps with it and it'll get kills
You have to be extremely careful
Camp to the point of forcing jiggs to be aggressive
Then you can predict some of her attacks and counter with Ftilt or Utilt
You really can't be aggressive in this matchup because if you miss any attack, a good jiggs is gonna get a hit in
Your whole strategy needs to revolve around NOT missing attacks, unless you're sure you can't get punished
Missiles to bait them into attacking, shield, UB works too but it's risky, be careful with this move, all moves actually, DON'T MISS, jiggs can punish almost any move if she is just out of your reach
Rack up damage any way you can, missiles, un charged shots, homing, homing are good for some damage, juss make sure she's not too close
Nair is probably your best aerial in this matchup, Fair has too many holes, and the jiggs ain't gonna end up above you in shUair range
Like I said, rack up damage any way you can, get your hits in and don't bother about following up
If jiggs doesn't wanna approach
Charge your shot, predict her jumps with it and it'll get kills
TresChikon
Smash Lord
So what would the reliable kills be? Knocking her offstage with tilts seem easy, but edgeguarding her gives me the heebie jeebies.
idea
Smash Master
space carefully
wavedash back + good ground moves (ftilt, fsmash, dsmash, maybe uptilt)
she can rest you out of a lot of misspaced moves, but the ones jiggs players will actually go for are mainly dash attack, grab (lol) and dsmash (if you are sort of close to them).
the thing is, if they miss the rest, they know they're not gonna be punished too hard for it. the worst thing you can do is charge shot them, and that doesn't kill until, what, 70 on FD? i dunno. not early enough for them to be worried about, anyway.
but mainly, i think most jigglypuffs will space bairs, so you have to weave around those carefully. they might try approaching with fair or something...but then you could potentially crouch cancel or wavedash back. so they'll probably go back to bair after a while =P
also, look up jiggs vs. samus matches on youtube. best way to learn matchups =) i know hugs has some matches vs. mango.
edit: you don't have any real reliable kill moves. you have to get lucky fsmashes or charged shots after building up percent. maybe dsmash.
haha, i like this matchup.
wavedash back + good ground moves (ftilt, fsmash, dsmash, maybe uptilt)
she can rest you out of a lot of misspaced moves, but the ones jiggs players will actually go for are mainly dash attack, grab (lol) and dsmash (if you are sort of close to them).
the thing is, if they miss the rest, they know they're not gonna be punished too hard for it. the worst thing you can do is charge shot them, and that doesn't kill until, what, 70 on FD? i dunno. not early enough for them to be worried about, anyway.
but mainly, i think most jigglypuffs will space bairs, so you have to weave around those carefully. they might try approaching with fair or something...but then you could potentially crouch cancel or wavedash back. so they'll probably go back to bair after a while =P
also, look up jiggs vs. samus matches on youtube. best way to learn matchups =) i know hugs has some matches vs. mango.
edit: you don't have any real reliable kill moves. you have to get lucky fsmashes or charged shots after building up percent. maybe dsmash.
haha, i like this matchup.
TheLifeRuiner
Smash Lord
it all boils down to
beast spacing
beast spacing
Had0
Smash Cadet
This is some very useful advice.
Oi that means i have to play basically the opposite of my normal rush down style. <___>
Thanks Knit and everyone else for the tips.
Pi
Smash Hero
I'm having real problems getting through FH double Bair from Jiggs...
TresChikon
Smash Lord
Space below the rising bair and space from above from the falling bair.
She doesn't have much to throw out from below or above, but you do
I would suggest some wavelands.
She doesn't have much to throw out from below or above, but you do
I would suggest some wavelands.
Kochiha Ichihara
Smash Apprentice
Well, you have to remember that Sammy vs. Puff on Mute City is tipped maniacally in Puff's favor, so one strategy is don't fight Puff on Mute City. Puff savors the bigger stages (much like Samus does), so when counterpicking, go to smaller spots such as Marthland (better known as Yoshi's Story) and remember that upBing out of shield is your best friend. In addition, the people that are going to attempt a rest during a missed grab are (quite surprisingly) few and far between, so it shouldn't be COMPLETELY ruled out. Samus is not a hot character when it comes to grab game regardless, so watch it the same way you would against anybody else.
The best strategy is to keep that puffball on the ground where its abilities are lessened. Keep the pressure on and never let up, but space yourself very precisely when doing so. It's a **** tricky matchup because of that spacing, so hurry up and make friends with someone who avidly plays Puff so you can get some practicing in. And have some Advil handy; Samus/Jigglypuff matches are agonizingly boring if both players know what they're doing.
Oh, and in responce to Three Chickens one post up: while upB out of shield is your best friend, wavelands are probably 2nd or 3rd best friends.
TresChikon
Smash Lord
Three Chickens, lol, so overstated.
Wouldn't she be able to CC your UpB OoS and rest?
Couple of things I noticed in this match-up:
1. Having a charge shot ready will always be a scary factor for the Jiggs player, because she doesn't have amazing vertical mobility to dodge it if she's messing around with aerials.
2. Jiggs' F-smash can sneak in under your u-tilt if you aren't careful. That move's hella powerful, so take care not to get caught out by it.
1. Having a charge shot ready will always be a scary factor for the Jiggs player, because she doesn't have amazing vertical mobility to dodge it if she's messing around with aerials.
2. Jiggs' F-smash can sneak in under your u-tilt if you aren't careful. That move's hella powerful, so take care not to get caught out by it.
TresChikon
Smash Lord
I find the best time for a u-tilt is on a whiffed pound.
ihavespaceblondes
Smash Master
Chexr's jiggs killed me with an uthrow on Squirtle's head at like 90%. Just FYI.
Mars-
Smash Champion
Doesn't work
Please explain how you keep puff on the ground? Wouldn't that require not hitting her?
A good jiggs will hit you even if you are spacing perfectly.
Pi
Smash Hero
The match is not unwinnable.
UB OoS has it's place
Utilt has it's place
Ftilt has it's place
Dtilt Dsmash Fsmash everything has it's place
Juss figure it out, threads like these always seem to come down to either 'juss spam this move' or 'this move doesn't work, that one doesn't work, if the character plays perfectly you can't win'
**** that, space, play smart, don't **** up
What more do you want to be said
There's no auto win move in this matchup
UB OoS has it's place
Utilt has it's place
Ftilt has it's place
Dtilt Dsmash Fsmash everything has it's place
Juss figure it out, threads like these always seem to come down to either 'juss spam this move' or 'this move doesn't work, that one doesn't work, if the character plays perfectly you can't win'
**** that, space, play smart, don't **** up
What more do you want to be said
There's no auto win move in this matchup
-Philip Coast Philip-
Smash Ace
"daughter dashes" or whatever they were heh. I accidentally got it to a point where I could do them consistently, and for awhile it actually came in handy... not again anytime recently though.EDIT: Oh and I could never do those little sister SWD's
what, we finally have discussion here and you're going to complain about it? tsk tsk ;p
lol... but really, what doesn't...
lol that's the same thought I had
lol that's like a connection
lol we're like best buds now
nosrslyfml
So... basically, we need to figure out how to incorporate upsmash into the jiggs matchup, is what I hear people saying.
TresChikon
Smash Lord
Reverse SWD past the Puff and U-Smash to catch her. Not sure what would be best to after though... nair?
Pi
Smash Hero
most likely a rest
And I don't think what you were doing were daughter dashes
You probably would just bomb out of a full SWD into another one
Afaik daughter dashes are where you actually move distance while in the morph ball state affecting the final swd product some how...
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=63749
"Now the speed to do that is inhuman (No really, your controller would burn up like a **** firework.
)"http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t9sa8133NBI#t=1m13s
TheLifeRuiner
Smash Lord
oops double post
TheLifeRuiner
Smash Lord
I think what he was referring to was my post:"daughter dashes" or whatever they were heh. I accidentally got it to a point where I could do them consistently, and for awhile it actually came in handy... not again anytime recently though.EDIT: Oh and I could never do those little sister SWD's
-Philip Coast Philip-
Smash Ace
Ah, thanks for the clarification.And I don't think what you were doing were daughter dashes
You probably would just bomb out of a full SWD into another one
Afaik daughter dashes are where you actually move distance while in the morph ball state affecting the final swd product some how...
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=63749
"Now the speed to do that is inhuman (No really, your controller would burn up like a **** firework.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t9sa8133NBI#t=1m13s
Heh, er, I skimmed through LifeRuiner's post
too quickly the first time and missed what he was saying. I was confusing short SWDs with "daughter dashes". But yes, I meant short SWDs. Maybe it was my controller, or how I flicked the stick or something, but my guess is that I would do the SWD and then the stick would be held in a direction for a few frames too many, and that would shorten the SWD significantly (about the same distance a daughter dash covers, according to that video). (I actually have a mid-sized one in my combo video at 4:35 that I escape from Fox's respawn with go into a shield.)
In other news, my mom sent me an email this morning saying "you're part black lol, or should I say "african"."
i need to practice my trash-talk tech skill now. any pointers?
Vijin
Smash Ace
Seems like utilts just knock Jiggs out of her shield. So if you're poking at her and she's shielding, use an Utilt.
TheLifeRuiner
Smash Lord
you should follow socal melee community
do you even play competitive melee or you just write theory books with unfathomable scenarios?
I was loling pretty hard at your roy's advice already, but when I stepped in here and noticed you were suggesting using SWD, that made my day.
-Philip Coast Philip-
Smash Ace
hm. maybe I'll ask alukard for some tips too.
with that attitude it's unfathomable sure
("we gotta make the upsmash work somehowwwwww!")