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The "Right" Times to Kill

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Shadow13

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Is it really all that better to kill them instead of letting them kill you? They have tried out of anger, but you have killed them because of selfishness, because you think your life is more valuable.

Is it really all that better?


The right thing (in your opinion): Kill them so that I may live.
Nice.
Umm, no, the ones who wish to murder are doing something evil in trying to murder somebody, so I wouldn't even think just me. If there was a man about to shoot another man, I would rather protect the innocent one than let him die, even if it meant killing the one trying to kill another.
Also, just since you say the time to kill is never, and you use religion to justify this, if you look in the Bible, God has killed more people than most people have.
 

thegreatkazoo

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Umm, no, the ones who wish to murder are doing something evil in trying to murder somebody, so I wouldn't even think just me. If there was a man about to shoot another man, I would rather protect the innocent one than let him die, even if it meant killing the one trying to kill another.
Also, just since you say the time to kill is never, and you use religion to justify this, if you look in the Bible, God has killed more people than most people have.
Homes, I know you're right, but don't get this guy Hooblah started. Methinks he's an apologist (judging on what he wrote on my America & Science page). And arguing with God & morality with an apologist, is well...look at my avatar. ;)
 

Alus

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God has killed more people than most people have.
Somebody killed more than god?

0_o

I'm gonna do my best to put others first. It is a tough situation to be in, I know, but I think I would try pull a Jesus.
Once you accept this you have pretty much committed suicide to say that you should die before anyone else.

But honestly this cannot be justified

**** life itself isn't justified...

Just live it the way you want to, by what you think is fair, that is really all you can do...
[Just thought about this overnight.]
 

Shadow13

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Somebody killed more than god?

0_o



Once you accept this you have pretty much committed suicide to say that you should die before anyone else.
That is also something that would go with religion, it sort of uses the Bible to support self defense. I was mainly just saying that if somebody is going to die, then the one who felt like killing in the first place was the one screwing up. It makes more sense for somebody who is guilty to die.

For the person who killed more than God, well, it depends, Hitler didn't directly kill people, but I'm not sure exactly how many people God killed. Hitler is obviously one of the people who got most people killed. I'm really just not sure if there is any definite amount of people killed by God in the Bible, so I guess we can't be sure unless there is.
 

Hooblah2u2

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You would want your children to defend themselves, wouldn't you?
No, actually. Now that I think about it, I would rather them show love to their enemies.

Also, just since you say the time to kill is never, and you use religion to justify this, if you look in the Bible, God has killed more people than most people have.
And for good reason.

Take a judge for example. He gets to decide the punishment (in most cases I understand). Now would you let a small child decide what the punishment is? Of course not. That would be very unwise. Same with God. He is the judge, and we are the small unwise children.

Methinks he's an apologist
I accept that title. If you really wanna see how apologetic I can be, you should see some of my older blog posts:
ForeverChristianBlog.com

Once you accept this you have pretty much committed suicide to say that you should die before anyone else.
That's really the point. Life isn't supposed to be about ourselves. Jesus didn't call us to try to get the biggest house, but to get rid of houses all together.

But honestly this cannot be justified
Why not? Do you not ever put anyone before yourself?

I was mainly just saying that if somebody is going to die, then the one who felt like killing in the first place was the one screwing up. It makes more sense for somebody who is guilty to die.
Yes of course, I totally agree. The thing is, we are all guilty.

It's a tough concept, and I don't expect you to understand overnight, but it's something to think about.
 
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Hooblah, you are a very religious person, and I respect that. But you fail to see the difference between when Jesus got killed and why you would get killed.

Jesus's death covered a huge scope of things. The main ones being religion and his love for us. He died to save us. His acceptance of them killing him was, well, justified, for lack of a better word.

Now, if someone where to try to kill you, it would most likely be for something completely secular. And if you let them kill you, there wouldn't be a big win to anybody else but the killer. He might get a couple of bucks, but you side would lose. You would lose your life, your family and friends would lose you, and that would be a life Jesus died for in vain.
 

.Marik

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^ What T.R.D.S. stated.

We understand what you're trying to get at Hooblah, but it's not a very realistic concept. There are varying mindsets which will simply make your attempt to bring "peace" a vain failure, to put it quite bluntly.

Why not? Do you not ever put anyone before yourself?
But this is an entirely different situation. It's not merely defending someone or protecting some individual, this is a matter of you getting a bullet lodged inside of your cranium.

You sacrificing yourself when it wasn't needed at all, is simply unwise. The assailant may not even be religious, and the attempted concept you're trying to bring to a conclusion will fail. The sinner will live. You will perish, for no reason at all. Your family will suffer, and he'll escape with no guaranteed consequence for his actions. For what? Rage? Money?

Not worth it. If you're in the military, you're instructed to kill. You don't think, you simply kill. Everyone is at fault for participating in this bloodbath for greedy, selfish ambitions of either themselves or their country. You feel like you aren't at fault, and the other men feel the same way.

Now if you attempt to pull a Jesus, you won't get the same intended effect. You'll just be another grave, without a name and without a second glance. Now your family and children have no father. Was it worth it?

You should've killed that motherf*cker when you had the chance.
 
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What I've been saying all along. Although I will admit that I had never thought of the possibility that the killer might not be religious.

I wanna be a real Debater already! Is the real Debate Hall more active, Marik?
 

Hooblah2u2

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esus's death covered a huge scope of things.
Including all my sins, which is why I only want to follow His commands, which is to not resist your enemies.

And if you let them kill you, there wouldn't be a big win to anybody else but the killer.
Not exactly. I would be in Heaven with my savior, so really I come out with the win.

For to me, to live is Christ and to die is gain. ~ Philippians 1:21

You would lose your life, your family and friends would lose you, and that would be a life Jesus died for in vain.
Oh you have it all wrong. The only lives died in vain for are the lives that don't know Christ. Really when I die, Jesus' plan for me will be complete, not failed.

The sinner will live.
We are all sinners.

You will perish, for no reason at all.
I will perish for my God, and there is nothing I would rather do more. Is there any better way to die?

and he'll escape with no guaranteed consequence for his actions.
Everyone will get what they deserve eventually, including the murderer, unless he's received Christ.

Now if you attempt to pull a Jesus, you won't get the same intended effect. You'll just be another grave, without a name and without a second glance. Now your family and children have no father. Was it worth it?
If I die for God, it will always be worth it.
 

.Marik

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I wanna be a real Debater already! Is the real Debate Hall more active, Marik?
It's about the same. I've seen some good posts from you in various debates, I'll recommend you in the appropriate thread.

You're not thinking rationally.

Christ is only a theory. He may not exist. There may not be a heaven. Only a place six feet deep in the ground. That, we know is fact. That's what I'll wield against religion. Proven fact.

I don't mean to be offensive, but you're incredibly deluded if you have no qualms about a man taking your life, only to be with God.

Just saying, good luck.
 
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I'm sorry Hooblah if I sound all not-a-good-Christian-y, but I would rather defend my life so I could live it out to the fullest, and serving God. God is forgiving, and he would forgive me, and I wouldn't let my life be taken by anyone except the Lord himself.

That is all, Hooblah. You are very religious, and I respect that, but the fact that you would happily let people steal each other's lives seems a bit fanatic to me.
 

.Marik

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I'm sorry Hooblah if I sound all not-a-good-Christian-y, but I would rather defend my life so I could live it out to the fullest, and serving God. God is forgiving, and he would forgive me, and I wouldn't let my life be taken by anyone except the Lord himself.

That is all, Hooblah. You are very religious, and I respect that, but the fact that you would happily let people steal each other's lives seems a bit fanatic to me.
I agree with you to the fullest.
 

Hooblah2u2

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Sorry my earlier comment must not have gone through. I will attempt to rethink the points I made:

You're not thinking rationally.

Christ is only a theory. He may not exist. There may not be a heaven. Only a place six feet deep in the ground. That, we know is fact. That's what I'll wield against religion. Proven fact.
Though I don't need it, since I know Jesus died for me, but have you ever heard of Pascal's Wager?

I'm sorry Hooblah if I sound all not-a-good-Christian-y, but I would rather defend my life so I could live it out to the fullest, and serving God.
Dying for God is the most fulfilling thing you can do for God.

I wouldn't let my life be taken by anyone except the Lord himself.
How do you know the murderer isn't God calling you to come to Him?

You are very religious, and I respect that, but the fact that you would happily let people steal each other's lives seems a bit fanatic to me.
I understand that.
 

.Marik

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^ You're still not disproving our arguments, but merely making it more evident you're thinking irrationally. Have you even fully read and understood our points?

Nobody murders you because they're a reincarnation or messenger of God Himself.

Hell, I could be a Gospel Christian and I wouldn't die for God, not at the hands of another mortal man. My family and living to please the Lord so I can actually get into Heaven after a lifetime of serving Him seems much more important and reasonable then simply being exterminated by an AK-47 or a rifle because of currency or valuables.

Your arguments are poorly constructed and thought-out, or you're simply being stubborn. I don't know what else to add to help you comprehend the picture that I haven't already said.
 
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But Hooblah, if the murderer was God, I doubt he]would try to take you so forcefully. God is gentle, loving, but stern. He wouldn't come as a serial killer, IMO.
 

Hooblah2u2

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Nobody murders you because they're a reincarnation or messenger of God Himself.
I never said it was....

Hell, I could be a Gospel Christian and I wouldn't die for God, not at the hands of another mortal man.
How do you know? If you really met Jesus, then I think you would want to.

My family and living to please the Lord so I can actually get into Heaven after a lifetime of serving Him seems much more important and reasonable then simply being exterminated by an AK-47 or a rifle because of currency or valuables.
Reasonable to you, a tiny but compared to the universe? Or to God, the creator of the universe?

Your arguments are poorly constructed and thought-out, or you're simply being stubborn.
The way I see it, I am just giving God's message to you, and you are the one being stubborn.
I'm not trying to attack you personally, but I just see it a bit differently.

But Hooblah, if the murderer was God, I doubt he]would try to take you so forcefully. God is gentle, loving, but stern. He wouldn't come as a serial killer, IMO.
I never said the murderer would be God, I said God can use a murderer to make great things happen (not murder, but suffering - which is really a great blessing if you think about it).
 
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All right Hooblah, I see what you're getting at. But, chances are that

1) You won't make it into the real DB if you keep basing your arguements on God and religion.
2) You won't enjoy life for long if you keep that mindset.

It's obvious that you and I share completelly different views on the matter, but it's also obvious that what I said earlier is true: There is no "right" time to kill, only "a" time to kill. In the end, that time is decided by your morals, beliefs, religion, and how religious you are.
 

thegreatkazoo

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I never said it was....


How do you know? If you really met Jesus, then I think you would want to.


Reasonable to you, a tiny but compared to the universe? Or to God, the creator of the universe?


The way I see it, I am just giving God's message to you, and you are the one being stubborn.
I'm not trying to attack you personally, but I just see it a bit differently.


I never said the murderer would be God, I said God can use a murderer to make great things happen (not murder, but suffering - which is really a great blessing if you think about it).
Homes, you so need a new hole torn in your @$$ with the apologetics shi! :dizzy: that it is driving me mad.

You have an argument, that is great, as it is the point in the debate hall and PG to argue, using sources and facts to back up your claims. However, when you do the opposite of this and state Bible verses to back up your claims ad nauseam without any sources, it has this effect on people (and to those I quoted: please let me know if I quoted you out of context and I will remove your quotes. Thanks. :)):

Though I agree with both of these quotes, I personally do not like to simply post biblical quotes, as I feel it limits my discussion field to much, and I am only reaching a potential market of people who believe that the bible is a book to be followed, only about 30 percent of the world.

Instead, I find it more effective to list the quote, and then give reasoning to why the quote is valid.
Hooblah, you are a very religious person, and I respect that. But you fail to see the difference between when Jesus got killed and why you would get killed.

Jesus's death covered a huge scope of things. The main ones being religion and his love for us. He died to save us. His acceptance of them killing him was, well, justified, for lack of a better word.

Now, if someone where to try to kill you, it would most likely be for something completely secular. And if you let them kill you, there wouldn't be a big win to anybody else but the killer. He might get a couple of bucks, but you side would lose. You would lose your life, your family and friends would lose you, and that would be a life Jesus died for in vain.
^ What T.R.D.S. stated.

We understand what you're trying to get at Hooblah, but it's not a very realistic concept. There are varying mindsets which will simply make your attempt to bring "peace" a vain failure, to put it quite bluntly.
You're not thinking rationally.

Christ is only a theory. He may not exist. There may not be a heaven. Only a place six feet deep in the ground. That, we know is fact. That's what I'll wield against religion. Proven fact.

I don't mean to be offensive, but you're incredibly deluded if you have no qualms about a man taking your life, only to be with God.

Just saying, good luck.
That is all, Hooblah. You are very religious, and I respect that, but the fact that you would happily let people steal each other's lives seems a bit fanatic to me.
You're still not disproving our arguments, but merely making it more evident you're thinking irrationally. Have you even fully read and understood our points?

Nobody murders you because they're a reincarnation or messenger of God Himself.

Hell, I could be a Gospel Christian and I wouldn't die for God, not at the hands of another mortal man. My family and living to please the Lord so I can actually get into Heaven after a lifetime of serving Him seems much more important and reasonable then simply being exterminated by an AK-47 or a rifle because of currency or valuables.

Your arguments are poorly constructed and thought-out, or you're simply being stubborn. I don't know what else to add to help you comprehend the picture that I haven't already said.
All right Hooblah, I see what you're getting at. But, chances are that

1) You won't make it into the real DB if you keep basing your arguements on God and religion.
2) You won't enjoy life for long if you keep that mindset.

It's obvious that you and I share completelly different views on the matter, but it's also obvious that what I said earlier is true: There is no "right" time to kill, only "a" time to kill. In the end, that time is decided by your morals, beliefs, religion, and how religious you are.
I'd like to give some constructive criticism to Hooblah2u2.
I read some of your points in the "The 'Right' Times to Kill" Topic, and while I have disagreeing viewpoints, some of your points don't even make sense. I try to see both sides of the story when I debate; however, I cannot possibly see how you can say "Oh, that person is trying to kill me, I'm going to let him to do that because I, myself, put others before me." That's just....I can't even think of a good reason WHY you would think that.
The concept is great if you are talking about something like, you know, giving your lunch money away to someone who needs it or doing volunteer work, but in terms of your own life, it is almost unarguable that the protection of your own life from others doesn't even matter.
I wish we could post in those topics, but for now, I'll post my criticism here. V_V

@Meta
I actually complimented him on that argument, before I realized it was his over-religious aspect that made him say it. My debate was going to be exactly what he stated. "What makes your life more worthy?" where it comes straight down into your own morals and beliefs.

But he seems.... way to over-religious and "the book is the only truth/right in the world" to really be great for debates. :/
^ He's much too influenced by religious theory to Debate rationally and with common sense.
Summed up what I was trying to say.
In short, rather than quote scripture and tell us to repent to YAHWEH, you should take the time to make an argument and give us all the facts and sources to make it true. Hint: Using the Bible is not always the best source. :) Else, Pound & ROM 4 will have come and gone, I would have my diploma from the North Avenue Trade School, and you will still be spinning your apologists' wheels wondering why you can't get into the DH proper. Don't take any antipathy out of this, as I am really trying to help you out in becoming a better debater. Also, this will be the last time I ask you to cool the apologist for the sake of apologist talk. ;)

Whew! :dizzy: Now that that's out of the way, I have found something that more closely matches my feelings on when is a good time to kill: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ryiUBIiN4xE
 

Hooblah2u2

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Homes, you so need a new hole torn in your @$$ with the apologetics shi! that it is driving me mad.
Chill I am just stating my view, and you are stating yours.

All right Hooblah, I see what you're getting at. But, chances are that

1) You won't make it into the real DB if you keep basing your arguements on God and religion.
2) You won't enjoy life for long if you keep that mindset.
Why is basing my argument on God any different than you basing your argument on yourself?

I honestly can't imagine being an atheist. After experiencing God's love time after time, I can't imagine ever going back. It only gets better and better.

In short, rather than quote scripture and tell us to repent to YAHWEH, you should take the time to make an argument and give us all the facts and sources to make it true.
This isn't really a debate that requires sources. This is an opinionated (sp?) debate. Facts =/= Opinion. Facts of course can sponsor your opinion, and my facts are the Bible.

I don't understand why I upset you so much. All I have done is come here and stated my somewhat fundamental view.
 
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I personally am not getting upset. Isn't this how you're supposed to act in a debate?

Jk, btw.
 

thegreatkazoo

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Chill I am just stating my view, and you are stating yours.
As Chris Berman would say, "Yeah, but..."


Why is basing my argument on God any different than you basing your argument on yourself?

I honestly can't imagine being an atheist. After experiencing God's love time after time, I can't imagine ever going back. It only gets better and better.


This isn't really a debate that requires sources. This is an opinionated (sp?) debate. Facts =/= Opinion. Facts of course can sponsor your opinion, and my facts are the Bible.

I don't understand why I upset you so much. All I have done is come here and stated my somewhat fundamental view.
Okay, you've fully deserved this for continually ignoring criticisms of your debate style and not responding to posts made against your fellow debaters. And in order for your to let the message fully absorb, I will use your main to get the point across:



The thing is with me, I use facts, numbers, and figures from a variety of sources. Not one source you've listed since being in the PG has been exclusive of one of the following:
  1. Opinion
  2. Christian website
  3. Scripture

And don't say this isn't true, because I checked every one of your posts here. Research, it's a beautiful thing, no? ;)

The point I was trying to make in my last post is that some other people are have reservations towards you using the Scripture as your only source. From my count, four people have concerns on this. I would make five, and that's only the people who cared enough to voice their opinion.

I don't know if I am overstepping my bounds here (If I am, mods please let me know and I will remove this part as need be), but your fundamentalist view on religion and debate will not get you in the DH proper any time soon.
 

Hooblah2u2

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This is about whether or not we believe there is a right time to kill. What research is needed to share our opinion??

The thing is with me, I use facts, numbers, and figures from a variety of sources. Not one source you've listed since being in the PG has been exclusive of one of the following:
Opinion
Christian website
Scripture
For the record you have not given me any "research" either. If you count that video that supported your opinion, then my link that supports my opinion counts as well.

Matthew 7:3-5
"Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? How can you say to your brother, 'Let me take the speck out of your eye,' when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye. "

You are the perfect example of this verse.

I don't know if I am overstepping my bounds here (If I am, mods please let me know and I will remove this part as need be), but your fundamentalist view on religion and debate will not get you in the DH proper any time soon.
Why not? Debate halls really profit from people like me. If there's nobody to disagree with, it's really not a debate hall. Besides, why would your humanitarian view be any better?
 

thegreatkazoo

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Matthew 7:3-5
"Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? How can you say to your brother, 'Let me take the speck out of your eye,' when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye. "

You are the perfect example of this verse.
If you're gonna call me a hypocrite, grow some balls and call me that, @$$#@t. Okay? Thanks. ;)

Why not? Debate halls really profit from people like me. If there's nobody to disagree with, it's really not a debate hall. Besides, why would your humanitarian view be any better?
You really shouldn't assume I have a humanitarian view on things, but I am really opposed to all forms of fundamentalism.

Oh, so we're back on the question at hand...sweetness! :)
I'll do one better and move on to the subject...

Anyways, that link best describes how I feel about when is a good time to kill. As statistics in relation to death are much harder to come by than most, opinion will rule in this debate...
 

Hooblah2u2

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If you're gonna call me a hypocrite, grow some balls and call me that, @$$#@t. Okay? Thanks.
Well I don't like to call people names, so I thought I would use a verse I like to show how you weren't being fair.

You really shouldn't assume I have a humanitarian view on things, but I am really opposed to all forms of fundamentalism.
Well I get the impression you trust science too much.

Anyways, that link best describes how I feel about when is a good time to kill.
And the link I gave best describes mine. See? Guilty of the same things.

As statistics in relation to death are much harder to come by than most, opinion will rule in this debate...
That's what I've been trying to say.
 

thegreatkazoo

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Well I don't like to call people names, so I thought I would use a verse I like to show how you weren't being fair.
Be a man, darn it! If you got something to say, say it! :)
Also, life isn't fair, homes. ;)

Well I get the impression you trust science too much.
Are you calling people who know that science works to better all of our lives believers in some kind of faith? Just wanting to make sure I am hearing this right.

And the link I gave best describes mine. See? Guilty of the same things.
Duly noted, as this has been already acknowledged by me, so that's cool.
 

Hooblah2u2

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Also, life isn't fair, homes.
Someday...

Are you calling people who know that science works to better all of our lives believers in some kind of faith? Just wanting to make sure I am hearing this right.
Well lets just say faith is sometimes believing in what we can see.

Just so you know, I am going out of town in just a few minutes. I'm not sure if there will be internet access there. If there is, I will try to return. If not, then cya in a couple days.
 

Alus

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If dying for God is the most fulfilling thing that you could do for God then why are you still alive?
 

Alus

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If a murderer comes and tries to kill you because God called you home, can it ALSO be possible that the murderer was the one intended to be "called home" instead through yourself defending yourself?
 

Hooblah2u2

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If he is a murderer, I don't think God would be calling him home. Satan would be pulling him down instead.
 

Alus

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Nevermind...

I want to think before I write. >_>

Give me a second.
 

Hooblah2u2

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Haha it's alright we all make mistakes!

I guess I will sum up this thread: There is never a right time to kill.
 

Shadow13

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Haha it's alright we all make mistakes!

I guess I will sum up this thread: There is never a right time to kill.
Nice to be back on topic.
I disagree.
Well here is a situation that has happened and we saw the results. Think about what may have happened if nobody would kill the Nazis during the Holocaust. With no resistance how would they lose? Would it really be better for so many more to die instead of to kill them and make it stop?
 
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Well here is a situation that has happened and we saw the results. Think about what may have happened if nobody would kill the Nazis during the Holocaust. With no resistance how would they lose? Would it really be better for so many more to die instead of to kill them and make it stop?
That may be a rather challenging question to answer.
Let us look at the cons to letting them die instead of killing them and making it stop:
- In the Holocaust, there were 6 million+ people systematically murdered. Think of having 6 million people at your hands, what would you do?
- By the time of the Holocaust, there were a million or so Nazis, so basically if you killed the Nazis off, you would be killing a million people instead of letting 6 million die.
- To kill a million people would still be incredibly bad, morally speaking. However, these million people have caused the deaths of so many, from innocent children civilians to Allied soldiers. That still may not give a true reason to kill them all, just because they have killed, it may not mean that they themselves must be exterminated.
- Yet letting 6 million+ people die is most likely worst-case scenario, it would be in human nature to save 6 million people even if it meant killing 1 million.

They must have been extremely confused, yet they chose to try and kill the Nazis, thus those 6 million+ Jews, Gypsies, Homosexuals, Poles, and many others perished, sadly.

I am more on the side saying that 'there really is no true time to kill', however, I also believe that it would be right to kill 1 million people to save 6 million more as well.
 

Kewkky

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If your life is threatened by another person because of an unknown reason that is probably not your fault, seeing as the other person is intent on ending your life for their personal goals, I believe it is a right moment to take theirs. Your life might not be worth as much as theirs, but the fact that they're trying to end yours shows that they're capable of doing that to anyone. If a wife sends a hitman to kill her husband in order to gain life insurance money and take his possessions as well as probably begin a new love life with another person, and her husband gains an edge miraculously in the struggle, it's kill-or-die, and the husband has done no wrong to have his life taken away (just a hypothetical example).

It really depends on the motives behind the killing, and how innocent the one threatened is. So many situations may end up being called self-defense, such as you insulting someone, they try to kill you for disrespecting them, then you kill them. But if you do NOTHING to deserve the attack, then you have every right to take theirs before they take yours. Why would you have to die, you've made no crimes! The other person is the one committing a crime, probably mugging you randomly at night and already stabbed you once so you wouldn't tell the police, but still wasn't sure you'd keep your mouth shut.

In war, you're fighting to survive, as well as prove a point. One country threatens the other, if the threat is a serious threat, then there's no reason they shouldn't prevent the casualties that might happen... But once again, depends on the severity of the threat, and the innocence of the threatened. If the other country promises a nuke after a month, obviously the threatened will not sit back and hope it's lying or resort to diplomacy since the other country's mind is made up and stubborn. There's too many lives on the line that literally have NOTHING to do with the conflicting governments!

Sure, it'd be smarter to sit down with the opposing side in a battle and talk it out diplomatically, in a pacifistic way. And it might work if the problem didn't pose a big enough threat... But, like I've said in the past paragraphs, the option to kill shines brighter the more severe the problem between the two opposing sides, and it's only an option if you're not responsible for your position. The one side to have the need to end it before it's too late will make the move, and there's no way the other side can predict it and probably was sitting down like a diplomat. An easy answer? Yes it was! The right answer? it depends on what was at stake.


tl;dr: It all depends on the severity of the matter at hand. It may never be the best choice in minor struggles, but when either other lives are at stake, or a country's welfare or freedom, then yes, it's worth it. Any other problems can be resolved by sitting down and reaching even grounds to understand each other and solve it with no conflict. Sometimes... Killing can be seen as the best option, the fastest option, or even the only option, when in fact it shouldn't even be considered as an option in the majority of scenarios..

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I'm religious, but I'm also realistic. I might never kill a man in my life, but that doesn't mean that others won't either. Might as well give my input according to how I feel.
 

Shadow13

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That may be a rather challenging question to answer.
Let us look at the cons to letting them die instead of killing them and making it stop:
- In the Holocaust, there were 6 million+ people systematically murdered. Think of having 6 million people at your hands, what would you do?
- By the time of the Holocaust, there were a million or so Nazis, so basically if you killed the Nazis off, you would be killing a million people instead of letting 6 million die.
- To kill a million people would still be incredibly bad, morally speaking. However, these million people have caused the deaths of so many, from innocent children civilians to Allied soldiers. That still may not give a true reason to kill them all, just because they have killed, it may not mean that they themselves must be exterminated.
- Yet letting 6 million+ people die is most likely worst-case scenario, it would be in human nature to save 6 million people even if it meant killing 1 million.

They must have been extremely confused, yet they chose to try and kill the Nazis, thus those 6 million+ Jews, Gypsies, Homosexuals, Poles, and many others perished, sadly.

I am more on the side saying that 'there really is no true time to kill', however, I also believe that it would be right to kill 1 million people to save 6 million more as well.
I think I may have made my last post short and lacking, since WWII was something else that I should have mentioned, not just the Holocaust since they happened around the same time .Hitler winning WWII would have probably made the Holocaust not be stopped until the ones he wanted dead were dead, anyway.
For your post I feel that I would kill the Nazis to save the millions of innocent people. It may still have some left dead, but much less innocent would have died. Although, the point I was trying to make was that if people opposing the Nazis didn't kill them, they couldn't have lost, and much more people would have died.
At the end of your post you stated that there is no true time to kill, but you then say it would be right to kill around 1 million to save 6 million or more. So, you say that the during the time period of the Holocaust and WWII it was a "right" time to kill but not a "true" time to kill?
 
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I think I may have made my last post short and lacking, since WWII was something else that I should have mentioned, not just the Holocaust since they happened around the same time .Hitler winning WWII would have probably made the Holocaust not be stopped until the ones he wanted dead were dead, anyway.
For your post I feel that I would kill the Nazis to save the millions of innocent people. It may still have some left dead, but much less innocent would have died. Although, the point I was trying to make was that if people opposing the Nazis didn't kill them, they couldn't have lost, and much more people would have died.
At the end of your post you stated that there is no true time to kill, but you then say it would be right to kill around 1 million to save 6 million or more. So, you say that the during the time period of the Holocaust and WWII it was a "right" time to kill but not a "true" time to kill?
I was saying that apart from occurrences such as the Holocaust and War, there is no true time to kill. Even in War, it is bad to kill, but may be necessary in certain situations. What would you do if the enemy had a gun to your head, and you had a gun to their head? What would you do? Would you save yourself, or let the enemy lay waste to you and continue killing others?

Maybe 'right' was not what I really meant, dash that. I meant that it would have been in human nature to save more instead of having those 6 million+ people murdered.
In war, one must decide whether to kill or be killed, it is also in general human instinct to survive, thus one would kill to save their life and the lives of others.

Overall, it was really a human instinct of mine to say have 1 million killed instead of 6 million murdered. I said that I was 'more on the side of having 1 million dead', that does not mean:
1. That I demand those million people dead.
2. That I am fully for this side.
 
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