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TDB: SEASON 2! LEON (RE4) vs LARA CROFT

REL38

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Laughing while sayin' "idunno" with heav
Uffe, then link wouldnt have acess to anything other than what he had in like the first game.

we consolidate all appearances if they are the same character, unless the differences between appearances are SO different (like ganondorf)

As for speed of thought, he affects the world around him by thinking, at least when he does telekinesis. Therefor he just needs to THINK, and it happens.

Also, Ness hasnt shown any mind reading abilities...Mewtwo has.
I think there's a vast difference in him taking on one of the most powerful Pokemon, Mew, and ending in a stalemate, making a storm, beating a bunch of the trainers' Pokemon and being able to control bodies. Wherelse he's barely able to take on a few Dragonite. In the games, he beatable with almost any Pokemon. I'm seeing vast inconsistences with his true power.

Also, Mewtwo was able to MAKE a storm, but did he actually CONTROL it? If not, then he only has the raw power to conjure one up and that's it.
 

UncleSam

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I think there's a vast difference in him taking on one of the most powerful Pokemon, Mew, and ending in a stalemate, making a storm, beating a bunch of the trainers' Pokemon and being able to control bodies. Wherelse he's barely able to take on a few Dragonite. In the games, he beatable with almost any Pokemon. I'm seeing vast inconsistences with his true power.

Also, Mewtwo was able to MAKE a storm, but did he actually CONTROL it? If not, then he only has the raw power to conjure one up and that's it.
WHY DIDN'T PPL REALIZE THIS STUFF DURING SPAMUS vs. M2?
SEE WHY SPAMUS WOULD HAVE WON?
BUT NO!
IT'S A DRAW!
AND NOW LOOK WHAT HAPPENS BECAUSE YOU FINALLY SEE IT.
this is crap
/rage
 

¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯

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Blah, blah blah, Spamus woulda won etc. etc. who cares that's the past.

That was then, this is Comcast now so I suggest you all just agree with me that this is a draw etc. etc.

Wait but Sam, couldn't M2 just control Spamus's mind and make her shoot herself in the face?
 

UncleSam

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what REL said, M2 would only be able to toss around the suit

EDIT: SOLID I cared okay?
EDIT: REL I don't even think it would be possible for the connon to be pointed at her head anyway, based on size and position
 

adumbrodeus

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Firstly, I wanna point something out... Mewtwo basically IS cthulhu, beating mewtwo is punching out cthulhu.


Regardless... why is psi legal? That definitely goes against the entire point of the thread. Now it's just canon battles, which frankly, aren't as interesting.

Yea, I'm glad I stopped following this thread.


WHY DIDN'T PPL REALIZE THIS STUFF DURING SPAMUS vs. M2?
SEE WHY SPAMUS WOULD HAVE WON?
BUT NO!
IT'S A DRAW!
AND NOW LOOK WHAT HAPPENS BECAUSE YOU FINALLY SEE IT.
this is crap
/rage

*facepalm*

Making the storm WAS illustrating the control. The actual subtle manipulations of air currents required to create something like that is what establishes control, NOT moving it from location to location.

Seriously, the atmosphere is incredibly difficult to understand, even more so to manipulate. We can't even predict the paths of tornados and hurricanes accurately, our weather forecasts are completely unreliable for more then a week in advance (and even then, they're bad).


Controlling weather precisely enough to creating a tornado displays massive amount of control as well as massive amounts of raw power.
 

UncleSam

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Regardless... why is psi legal? That definitely goes against the entire point of the thread. Now it's just canon battles, which frankly, aren't as interesting.

Yea, I'm glad I stopped following this thread.
It hasn't all been canon battles, Ness and M2 wouldn't be able to do anything (well ness would have a baseball bat and a yo-yo) without PSI.
it would have been boring
 

adumbrodeus

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It hasn't all been canon battles, Ness and M2 wouldn't be able to do anything (well ness would have a baseball bat and a yo-yo) without PSI.
it would have been boring
Ummm, mewtwo's physical powess vs. ness's physical weaponry... they'd actually probably be ok opponents (ness almost certainly would win though).

Instead we've got another ****ing canon battle thread. Useless.


Also, read the edit.
 

UncleSam

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Ummm, mewtwo's physical powess vs. ness's physical weaponry... they'd actually probably be ok opponents (ness almost certainly would win though).

Instead we've got another ****ing canon battle thread. Useless.
I don see many canon battles, you just came to the wrong place at the wrong time.


Also, read the edit.
Also, read the rest of the debate
 

adumbrodeus

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I don see many canon battles, you just came to the wrong place at the wrong time.
Ok, so we've got this for ness and lucas, random buffs for certain characters (cough cough metaknight), and tons of other stupid stuff.


Just the principal of "joe ruling to allow stuff" even if it's not available to the characters is stupid.


This thread has gone down the toilet.




Also, read the rest of the debate
That was just directed at your swipe at the mewtwo vs. samus debate. And also establishing that Mewtwo does have amazing control.


That said, if mewtwo can make it, mewtwo can control it. It's the same subtle and difficult manipulations of air mass which are required to create and move tornados.


I will note in regards to the debate in general, that we're talking about two incredibly powerful psionics, powerful to the point that they simply become comparable due to their ability to destroy each other instantly if they get through, but also completely invalidate everything that their opponent can do.



btw, thread moved past it before I could explain the "ivysaur defense". Hence why I didn't respond.
 

payasofobia

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I gotta agree with Adum.

This thread has been somewhat uninteresting since the Wario vs Luke match.

But IMO it got better with this MU.


--------

To SOLID, if both have the same basic abilities, but Ness has the better techniques, I think we should just give the victory to Ness because of that small advantage. A 501-499 difference.
 

payasofobia

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But we completely gimped Snake.

Anyway, the flaw of this thread is that while some MUs are very interesting and close in Realistic settings (the fire emblem fights, martial artist fights, animal fights) others are completely one-sided and stupid (machines that won't work, giant stuff that gets crushed by weight etc).

The enjoyment you get in this thread is situational.
 

Rialdospaldacht

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In that short with Mewtwo (in Mewtwo returns, I think?) that showed his backstory, didn't he recover damage at a ludicrous rate near the end?
 

payasofobia

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And that was bull****.

Even if snake had a gun he would still struggle against DK in the right setting...

hint: a jungle....or an heliport with lots of crates.

DK would not be screwed if we had established the setting like we did in previous (and I mean OLD) MUs.
 

tocador

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I just registered. I was reading through this thread (what the hell was I thinking...) and noticed some things. Things like the gross exaggeration of Mewtwo's power.

I'm not going to get into what M2's power in the movie would translate to in a battle, although I will say that anyone saying his IQ's higher than 200 is full of the rankest bullpoop, as no one's IQ can get that high. Not even because of POWER LEVELS OF PUNY HUMANS CANNOT MATCH reasons, but because statistically that's impossible. 200 is the highest. M2's IQ can only ever top at 200, and then every other living being gets a lower number because of it. Hell, from what I remember from Psychology class, nothing can ever have an IQ of 200 since that would mean that's it's smarter than everything INCLUDING itself (REALITY DOESN'T WORK THAT WAY, IN CASE YOU WERE WONDERING. YOU ARE NOT SMARTER THAN YOURSELF.). That's how IQ works. A better, actually understandable explanation that might prove me stupid can be found here: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/YouFailTheIQTest
The following may also help you understand: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/YouFailStatisticsForever

Also, M2 is not the strongest PKMN. Nope. Not even talking in-game statwise (He'd be second only to GAWD!!! if we were talking game stats). He is not a god. Demigod might even be stretching it. Mew didn't create life, it just evolved into it. Think of traveling back in time to DINOSAURS!!! and looking around the bushes for a while. You might find some horrible, deformed, vaguely weasel-like thing. The ancestor of all mammals. Mew is kind of like that, only adorable and horrendously powerful. NOT A GOD. Dialga and Palkia can be considered gods. Groudon and Kyogre can be considered gods. Arceus apparently IS God (capital G). Mewtwo? He can do fancy things with weather by thinking about it hard enough. Kyogre's very presence does that. Mewtwo doesn't create oceans and continents; doesn't control time and space. Mewtwo is an atom bomb amongst actual GODS in Pokemon. Powerful, but in the end is a creation, and not the creator. He is not the end-all to Pokemon. He isn't even the end-all to Psychics. Palkia seems to enjoy that spot immensely. Mewtwo can be defeated in his own world; any world in which he appears.

AND ON THAT NOTE... having variable sources from which fans can draw powers makes things stupid really quick.

I like how people throw out statements like "LOL MYUUTSUU AM GOD BECAUSE OF X THING HE DOES IN GAME, AND Y THING HE DOES IN ANIMU, AND Z THING HE DOES IN MOVIE, AND IT'S ALL CANON"

What's canon?

No really. What's canon? The movies, the anime, the game, the manga? Which one overrides the rest? From what I've seen, neatly explained here: - http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Canon - the answer is NONE. Unless you're talking terms of what the creator liked, in which case you've got the Special manga (and anyone defending M2 power levels gets shot down really quick when we start talking Special), there is no absolute canon. It's all multiple, mostly exclusive universes. Powers in anime do not correspond to M2's in games and manga and vice versa. Apparently, the movies aren't even canon to the anime, since they're all almost always (ALLITERATION) purely speculative. So the M2 in the movies isn't even the same as the one in the anime. And all the M2's vary in power. Game M2 is very powerful, but not a god-like being. Anime M2 is quite stronger than game M2. Movie M2 is the one that can be considered a demigod, as he seems to have great, nearly involuntary, control over his immediate environment. Movie M2 also comes with the greatest emotional (read: Distracting) load, since the poor guy goes on a rampage because he is an artificial being and not a being made by God (HA! HA! Japanese overrides English canon. This is stuff I've merely HEARD by the by, so I might be wrong on some/all details of the Japanese first movie), and seeks to prove that he is just as good as Daddy, who is apparently an arrogant little pink jerkwad. Manga M2 I believe only shows up in Special. This is where he gets depowered something awful. M2 gets his gigantic purple tail handed to him by a group of Dragonite (their Hyper Beams can destroy large parts of a city in this. Make of it what you will.). During the aforementioned dragon-ownage period, he was caught by Red in a Master Ball (didn't just say NTY and kill Red) and later found to be bound to Blaine in such a way that they couldn't be separated more than a few meters without both dying. Also, Mewtwo fought the dragons with a giant spoon, so that's pretty rad. Later, Entei cures Mewtwo (at least proving that Entei is stronger at some things, mainly HEALING, than M2) and frees him from the psychic death bond to Blaine. He takes this opportunity to go KTHXBAI. He returns later to mess up Deoxys. That was actually a fights, so Manga M2 at his strongest has difficulty dealing with a shapeshifting alien. It might have had something to with Giovanni trying to kill Red at the same time, though. So yeah, the Movie Mewtwo is strongest, but comes at the price of being the most easily manipulated and mentally weak (Mew just kinda trolled him into raging in the movie, so talking can still affect M2). Manga M2 is the one closest to whatever anyone considers canon (there's still no absolute canon though), but is the weakest. Game M2 has nothing to do with any of them. You get the picture.

So choose a Mewtwo, because making a delicious M2 casserole doesn't fly. He should get one canon to choose from. In whatever case, HE IS NOT A GOD, AND HAS VERY EXPLOITABLE WEAKNESSES. Ness has an advantage over Movie version, since we all know how annoying 12-year-olds can be, or however old he is. Manga version gets a kick-butt spoon to duel with. But they exist in different continuities, so they aren't the same.

As a response to "random dude what stated that Ness has never fought something stronger than M2"... uhh... M2 ain't a god. He CANNOT destroy a planet. Giygas CAN. Ness lasts really long against that being before dropping the Idiot Ball (or rather, the player stops being a tardicus and tries the most useless attack a few times) and unleashing the EB equivalent of a Spirit Bomb. Also, at his strongest, NESS IS A ROBOT. So yeah. Be better at things than a psychic, time-traveling, Cthulhu-punching ROBOT, Mewtwo. I dare ya.

I didn't bring out the WALL OF TEXT stick on Ness because I haven't read the manga...

I'm hungry.
Your post fails. A canon match is a match in wich we take every real thing from each characters universe and brings them into a battle. We dont follow strict RL if they contradict the characters life.

Like teleporting. Sure it isnt possible in IRL, but it is in the pokemons/EB world. Thats why they can do it.

So before saying we are doing it all wrong, see if you arent the one saying BS with big words in a topic.

/epicfail
 

Rialdospaldacht

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I still think a lot of this depends on who thinks faster. That moment's advantage before a thought enters the opponent's head can make a lot of difference, seeing as they're both psychics.
 

JOE!

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each one does seem to have a counter for the other...


Anyways, @ Amb:

Either i "fix" certain characters to make an interesting fight, or we end up with what I did with G7W and ROB: i cannot even discuss them because they wont ever work. Or, they would be so bad that they can only beat things gimper than them.

@the thread becoming stale:

this is what happens when you bring fictional characters to real life, some of them will be bull****

EDIT:
I still think a lot of this depends on who thinks faster. That moment's advantage before a thought enters the opponent's head can make a lot of difference, seeing as they're both psychics.
still asking: does Ness need to cast his attacks? we know all mewtwo has to do is think, but can ness do the same or does he have to go through "PK.....blah blah!"
 

payasofobia

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Not really. I see this as a Fox vs. Pit matchup. Neither will be able to kill the other, so neither wins.
But Ness has a light speed attack going for him.

It should at least be as fast as teleport.


And Ness doesn't scream PKK whatever when using his techniques. Only in brawl.
 

UncleSam

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after finally reading through this wall of text I has t3h questions, and possibly clarifications.
I just registered. I was reading through this thread (what the hell was I thinking...) and noticed some things. Things like the gross exaggeration of Mewtwo's power.
*points to tocador*
I'm not going to get into what M2's power in the movie would translate to in a battle, although I will say that anyone saying his IQ's higher than 200 is full of the rankest bullpoop, as no one's IQ can get that high. Not even because of POWER LEVELS OF PUNY HUMANS CANNOT MATCH reasons, but because statistically that's impossible. 200 is the highest. M2's IQ can only ever top at 200, and then every other living being gets a lower number because of it. Hell, from what I remember from Psychology class, nothing can ever have an IQ of 200 since that would mean that's it's smarter than everything INCLUDING itself (REALITY DOESN'T WORK THAT WAY, IN CASE YOU WERE WONDERING. YOU ARE NOT SMARTER THAN YOURSELF.). That's how IQ works. A better, actually understandable explanation that might prove me stupid can be found here: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/YouFailTheIQTest
The following may also help you understand: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/YouFailStatisticsForever
it can theoretically go on forever. an IQ test isn't the most accurate depiction of somebody's intelligence.
Also, M2 is not the strongest PKMN. Nope. Not even talking in-game statwise (He'd be second only to GAWD!!! if we were talking game stats). He is not a god. Demigod might even be stretching it. Mew didn't create life, it just evolved into it. Think of traveling back in time to DINOSAURS!!! and looking around the bushes for a while. You might find some horrible, deformed, vaguely weasel-like thing. The ancestor of all mammals. Mew is kind of like that, only adorable and horrendously powerful. NOT A GOD. Dialga and Palkia can be considered gods. Groudon and Kyogre can be considered gods. Arceus apparently IS God (capital G). Mewtwo? He can do fancy things with weather by thinking about it hard enough. Kyogre's very presence does that. Mewtwo doesn't create oceans and continents; doesn't control time and space. Mewtwo is an atom bomb amongst actual GODS in Pokemon. Powerful, but in the end is a creation, and not the creator. He is not the end-all to Pokemon. He isn't even the end-all to Psychics. Palkia seems to enjoy that spot immensely. Mewtwo can be defeated in his own world; any world in which he appears.
totally true I don't deny any of this.
AND ON THAT NOTE... having variable sources from which fans can draw powers makes things stupid really quick.

I like how people throw out statements like "LOL MYUUTSUU AM GOD BECAUSE OF X THING HE DOES IN GAME, AND Y THING HE DOES IN ANIMU, AND Z THING HE DOES IN MOVIE, AND IT'S ALL CANON"

What's canon?

No really. What's canon? The movies, the anime, the game, the manga? Which one overrides the rest? From what I've seen, neatly explained here: - http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Canon - the answer is NONE.
I has t3h questions: by none do you mean none of the above apply? if so read the article. if by none you mean, only one can apply as canon at a time, read the OP.

Unless you're talking terms of what the creator liked, in which case you've got the Special manga (and anyone defending M2 power levels gets shot down really quick when we start talking Special), there is no absolute canon. It's all multiple, mostly exclusive universes. Powers in anime do not correspond to M2's in games and manga and vice versa. Apparently, the movies aren't even canon to the anime, since they're all almost always (ALLITERATION) purely speculative. So the M2 in the movies isn't even the same as the one in the anime. And all the M2's vary in power. Game M2 is very powerful, but not a god-like being. Anime M2 is quite stronger than game M2. Movie M2 is the one that can be considered a demigod, as he seems to have great, nearly involuntary, control over his immediate environment. Movie M2 also comes with the greatest emotional (read: Distracting) load, since the poor guy goes on a rampage because he is an artificial being and not a being made by God (HA! HA! Japanese overrides English canon. This is stuff I've merely HEARD by the by, so I might be wrong on some/all details of the Japanese first movie), and seeks to prove that he is just as good as Daddy, who is apparently an arrogant little pink jerkwad. Manga M2 I believe only shows up in Special. This is where he gets depowered something awful. M2 gets his gigantic purple tail handed to him by a group of Dragonite (their Hyper Beams can destroy large parts of a city in this. Make of it what you will.). During the aforementioned dragon-ownage period, he was caught by Red in a Master Ball (didn't just say NTY and kill Red) and later found to be bound to Blaine in such a way that they couldn't be separated more than a few meters without both dying. Also, Mewtwo fought the dragons with a giant spoon, so that's pretty rad. Later, Entei cures Mewtwo (at least proving that Entei is stronger at some things, mainly HEALING, than M2) and frees him from the psychic death bond to Blaine. He takes this opportunity to go KTHXBAI. He returns later to mess up Deoxys. That was actually a fights, so Manga M2 at his strongest has difficulty dealing with a shapeshifting alien. It might have had something to with Giovanni trying to kill Red at the same time, though. So yeah, the Movie Mewtwo is strongest, but comes at the price of being the most easily manipulated and mentally weak (Mew just kinda trolled him into raging in the movie, so talking can still affect M2). Manga M2 is the one closest to whatever anyone considers canon (there's still no absolute canon though), but is the weakest. Game M2 has nothing to do with any of them. You get the picture.
true, and the manga was great.

So choose a Mewtwo, because making a delicious M2 casserole doesn't fly. He should get one canon to choose from. In whatever case, HE IS NOT A GOD, AND HAS VERY EXPLOITABLE WEAKNESSES. Ness has an advantage over Movie version, since we all know how annoying 12-year-olds can be, or however old he is. Manga version gets a kick-butt spoon to duel with. But they exist in different continuities, so they aren't the same.
read up on my question, and the OP

As a response to "random dude what stated that Ness has never fought something stronger than M2"... uhh... M2 ain't a god. He CANNOT destroy a planet. Giygas CAN. Ness lasts really long against that being before dropping the Idiot Ball (or rather, the player stops being a tardicus and tries the most useless attack a few times) and unleashing the EB equivalent of a Spirit Bomb. Also, at his strongest, NESS IS A ROBOT. So yeah. Be better at things than a psychic, time-traveling, Cthulhu-punching ROBOT, Mewtwo. I dare ya.
no comment, I no like nothing about ness.

I didn't bring out the WALL OF TEXT stick on Ness because I haven't read the manga...

I'm hungry.
I'm hungry too

EDIT: did nobody see the wikipedia article I posted TWICE on teleportation?
teleportation happens instantaneously.
here I'll post it again: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teleportation
 

tocador

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His light speed attack, dont hurt. A flash that "kills" all the enemies. For a flash to kill, the only way he can, is by being supa dupa hot, and thus, melting people alive.

Any temperature that should met or burn other people, cant really come from close to you, or you would BAM melt.

@Teleport: If you have the same speed as the projectile going to you, you can run from it.

@Ness: How can a kid use a light speed move? Better, control it? No one has reflexes to it :D.

@Pk flash: So, the only way this attack should exist, is that it is a flash that "stuns" people because of sheer light, and end up knocking them out. Or melting people.

If it melts, it kills ness as soon as he uses it.

If it it a flash...... It wont do anything.

@Sam and the guy in quote: I explained why they would be real, shame on him if he cant understand or read.
 

payasofobia

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You said it yourself dude.

Mewtwo doesn't even have heat protection, and he would most likely be pulverized by a hot enough flash.

Thanks to the fact that this is a canon MU, Ness is not.


And a flash is light dude.

Light goes in every direction.

Ness needs not to control it.
 

UncleSam

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wormhole?
that's a possible way to dodge it.
and since apparently M2 can create black holes a wormhole should be easy

EDIT: paya your at 666 stop posting
 

tocador

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There are canon things, and there are not canon things.

In his game ness was affected by fire attacks, even light ones. So why is he imune to a flesh-melting light, if it does the same thing as fire?

The only answer is, in his games, he dosent kill people, he knocks them out with sheer brightness of the lights. Therefore, it shouldnt do anything to mewtwo ^^.

@Everyone: What the heck, arent you guys suposed to be studing or at school? I mean, everyday i post here at this time, no one is here, and now you guys are, how is that ><?
 

¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯

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But Ness has a light speed attack going for him.

It should at least be as fast as teleport.
What you're not getting is, neither character will EVER be able to hit each other if they both teleport infinitely.

Example:

M2 teleports behind Ness, tries to hit him
Ness teleports away

So you see, Ness will never get a CHANCE to use this attack of which you speak unless he wants to die himself. He also WILL NOT be able to sense where M2 is since he CANNOT enter M2's mind, as both characters will be shielding their minds so the other cannot dictate their actions.

Tie.
 

REL38

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@Tocador

It's not like PK Flash would be coming straight out of his hands. He would create it from a distance to not harm himself. PK Fire and Thunder come out straight fro
their bodies in Brawl to make it look cool. If any of that were coming straight from their bodies via muscles, hand techniques or chanting then it's like using chakra or chi or whatever you wanna call it. Ness uses Psychic abillities.
 
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