Scar talks Lean Melee [2012YotF]

Magus420 · Aug 30, 2009

August 2008 said:
Starting at like 18-20% before the throw, if you DI Sheik's jab up&towards and c-stick up you finish the lay back down animation before you land. If you just hold up without using the c-stick it'll work from like 25% or something. If you manage to SDI the jab upward it'll work even at 0%.

Welcome to last year I guess?

Those are the points where SDI is triggered through rotation after passing them (arrows indicating the direction of rotation). I've found a pretty reliable way to do it is by wiggling between those 2 top-most points very quickly.

Teczero said:
Wow nice I was so confused when you did this .

Thanks

I SDI your techchases quite often... except you never seem to actually use jab against me. I do end up SDIing your u-smashes instead though, lol.

Reaver197 · Aug 30, 2009

Wow, awesome. I never knew you could just jiggle between a direction and get the SDI. I thought you always had to go from neutral to a direction within a certain time period to get the SDI.

Thanks Magus.

P.C. Jona · Aug 30, 2009

i dont get it

you hold up and towards and c stick up before you get jabbed and then you cant get grabbed right?
then whats the little chart for?
for sdi? what does that have to do with holding up and towards and cstick up?

im a noob to technical stuff like that lol

iamthemicrowave · Aug 30, 2009

raychun1 said:
george, imma eat up that falcon next time we play, even tho it's like my worst matchup.

i'll be forfeiting matches alldai, son!!

hah you wish, im gonna poop on that sheik of yours

TresChikon · Aug 31, 2009

Magus420 said:
I've found a pretty reliable way to do it is by wiggling between those 2 top-most points very quicklyl.

So this beat's quarter circle SDI completely or just jab resets?

I might switch to this method to walltech and stuff if it's really better

ChRed2AKrisp · Aug 31, 2009

Magus420 said:
Welcome to last year I guess?

Those are the points where SDI is triggered through rotation after passing them (arrows indicating the direction of rotation). I've found a pretty reliable way to do it is by wiggling between those 2 top-most points very quickly.

I SDI your techchases quite often... except you never seem to actually use jab against me. I do end up SDIing your u-smashes instead though, lol.

Can falco's laser be SDIed up and thus get you out of his laser reset?

P.C. Jona · Aug 31, 2009

do you get invincibility frames from wall jumping?

ChRed2AKrisp · Aug 31, 2009

P.C. Jona said:
do you get invincibility frames from wall jumping?

yes, you do.

thumbswayup · Aug 31, 2009

I love Soap's avatar.

soap · Aug 31, 2009

everyone needs to see this movie

P.C. Jona · Aug 31, 2009

is that inglorious *******s?

soap · Aug 31, 2009

yup.

jona how'd the tourney go?

thumbswayup · Aug 31, 2009

Hands down the most entertaining film of the year and definitely Tarantino's best film since Pulp Fiction.

Go see it if you like movies.

Scar · Aug 31, 2009

Magus the point is that you don't have to SDI up you just have to SDI, I used your trixies as much as I could and it was helpful but Mango's rotate the stick trick works like 90% of the time at 0%, so now the actionable advice to be given is get dthrown, miss the tech, and rotate the stick.

4% APR said:
that would be ballin if you could get a knee out in time

yeah it puts you up in that weird float animation so you have time to do whatever, which is why everyone double jumps out, because they you have the option of fastfalling again

i think that's stupid though because it prob takes more time to hit the ground anyways and you don't have your dj

Reaver197 said:
What about dash attack tech chases though?

Edit: well, I should really say upsmash/dsmash punish.

i don't think sheik can do any of that without failing to cover tech roll options. this is against sheik trying to cover all of your options from grab

soap said:
at 0?

does SDI work at every percent?

yes

Afro_Chris said:
has to be above 30% to work proper, miss the tech they jab, u SDI up and u can get the first hit of the nair if ur really fast after u SDI the jab or u can just dj and run away or air dodge w.e u please, gets easier higher the %,

edit: my bad didnt read that ppl already said this

false and false

you don't have to SDI up you just have to smash DI, just like vs fox's uthrow uair

you rotate the stick as though you're trying to break free from a grab, and the inputs are all smashes, if you smash while in hitstun (which you will) you are smash DIing the hit, so you get propelled in that direction

it'll free you from the ground no matter what direction you press, unless it's down in which case idk what happens

also you can do it at any %

Divinokage said:
Well.. all Sheik has to do is to adapt and then Falcon's ****ed yet again lolll.

i think this is false too, you have a ton of options from the popup whereas vs the tech chase you have 0 options

falcons don't care about getting popped up and faired for a total of like 25% damage, we care about getting tech chased until 42 then dash attacked then tilted and faired offstage at 70

Meneks · Aug 31, 2009

That movie had alot of....
Talking

Afro_Chris · Aug 31, 2009

BigD!!! said:
double jump out

you might be able to waveland, but i doubt it

afro chris unless you have some more specific issues with falco im gonna say pretty much nair all over until you can get a nair grab at low % or knock him down for a tech chase after 30 or so

focus on just avoiding lasers a lot, that frustrates falcos, even if youre not punishing them the falco player will sort of feel like they arent working and start getting desperate

ok, so when falco dairs ur shield is it better to shield grab him, or roll, cuz like more than 50% of the time i get shined right after, would it just be safer to roll and wait for a better opening? also is there any like way to get out of their gay shield pressure?

thumbswayup · Aug 31, 2009

Meneks said:
That movie had alot of....
Talking

All Tarantino films do. What makes them so brilliant is that all of the talking is fascinating.

Cosmo! · Aug 31, 2009

Afro_Chris said:
ok, so when falco dairs ur shield is it better to shield grab him, or roll, cuz like more than 50% of the time i get shined right after, would it just be safer to roll and wait for a better opening? also is there any like way to get out of their gay shield pressure?

you should be able to tell when a shield grab will connect and when it will not, based off when the falco started his move. if he starts it early enough (like hits your shield with the dwindling weaker hitbox) then you get a free grab.

-ACE- · Aug 31, 2009

As Falcon, is it wise for you to slightly hold away as you attempt to shieldgrab Falco? I know that with Ganon, the shield ASDI will usually keep you out of range of additional jc shines and you'll get the grab off. Not to mention if he does shine you it'll be harder for him to combo you. If Falcon is like Ganon in this aspect, Falco won't be able to get an aerial off in time as long as you grab quick enough, which leaves him with WD back and fulljump as his only options.

Edit: Should have added this is definitely no good for Fox because of his shine's range.

BigD!!! · Aug 31, 2009

cosmo is right about learning to gauge when you can and cant shieldgrab falco

ace i've never really thought about it, seems like a decent trick

if you determine that its not safe to shieldgrab, rolling away, fulljumping out, wd out, and occasionally fast aerials like nair or bair are ok ways to get out of shield

stomp is high risk high reward, hardly ever works these days but if the falco is vulnerable to it by all means spam it

a lot of more old school falco players still fall for stomp oos, but not many regions have really old school falcos like the mw does so i dont know how much that applies to other people

Magus420 · Aug 31, 2009

Scar said:
Magus the point is that you don't have to SDI up you just have to SDI, I used your trixies as much as I could and it was helpful but Mango's rotate the stick trick works like 90% of the time at 0%, so now the actionable advice to be given is get dthrown, miss the tech, and rotate the stick.

false and false

you don't have to SDI up you just have to smash DI, just like vs fox's uthrow uair

you rotate the stick as though you're trying to break free from a grab, and the inputs are all smashes, if you smash while in hitstun (which you will) you are smash DIing the hit, so you get propelled in that direction

it'll free you from the ground no matter what direction you press, unless it's down in which case idk what happens

False, even with DI and ASDI straight up your SDI needs to be ~30° above horizontal if you were grabbed at 0%. Even a SDI straight up isn't enough if you AS/DI improperly. There are many parts of the rotation where if caught in won't get you the A/S/DI you need to get out at very low damage. Simply suggesting to 'miss the tech, and rotate the stick' is subpar advice. You'd be better off timing the rotation upward right after you hit the ground, and even then a couple frames delay on the jab can mess this up. Also, if you're going to rotate the stick to do it you should at least be holding up on the c-stick to get the ASDI part correct, which is pretty important.

Do whichever one works better for you. I started with rotating (and c-stick up which is an improvement on what you are doing) and moved to this method which I've found to be more reliable provided you wiggle quickly enough.

TresChikon said:
So this beat's quarter circle SDI completely or just jab resets?

I might switch to this method to walltech and stuff if it's really better

I walltech by holding directly horizontal then rotating to up and towards when I expect to be in hitlag (passing the SDI point slightly above horizontal). If I'm not able to get close enough to the edge before being hit for a single SDI to be enough I'll start from neutral and smash forward (SDI from pressing into SDI zone), and immediately rotate upwards (SDI from nearby rotation point). You could also try wiggling between the 2 horizontal rotation points, but the time between the smash horizontal and upwards rotate point would generally be smaller and easier to fit into the hitlag window.

ChRed2AKrisp said:
Can falco's laser be SDIed up and thus get you out of his laser reset?

Yeah. Despite not being able to SDI it upwards while on the ground normally due to it not having an upward sending launch angle, you're able to SDI it upwards when hit while laying on the ground.

g-regulate · Aug 31, 2009

hey scar come over tomorrow, the g-reg/plank pound 4 training era has officially begun

Kyu Puff · Aug 31, 2009

Scar or anyone else I guess, was hoping I could get some critique on my falcon.

vs. Fox

vs. Falco
vs. Falco

uhh it's pretty bad but I'm trying to get a secondary that doesn't suck.

KAOSTAR · Aug 31, 2009

So magus, are you saying to get out of the sheik tap after a missed tech:

I should smash to a little above the grooves that are straight horizontal and ASDI up.

so hold c stick up and smash just above left or right?

and at any percent?

Strong Badam · Aug 31, 2009

just do stuff and win

Magus420 · Aug 31, 2009

If you get grabbed above about 25% or so just holding up will work. If grabbed between around 20-25%, holding up & towards on the control stick and up on the c-stick will work. If below 20% you need to SDI and could either:

A) Hold up on the c-stick and rotate the control stick rapidly. Easy, but if the jab hits during the wrong parts of the rotation it won't work.

B) Hold up on the c-stick and full away on the control stick, then right as you hit the ground quickly rotate the control stick in the upward direction starting from away and ending at up & towards, then maybe go into C) in case they delay the jab slightly. If they hit you just after passing the point at the top it won't work if you don't move past up a 2nd time when going the other way before hitlag ends.

C) Hold up on the c-stick and rapidly wiggle/shake the control stick back and forth over the 2 points near the up notch on the controller. If you do it fast enough it will work pretty much every time. If you aren't fast it might not work very well at all. I put the stick between my index and middle fingers and vibrate my hand.

JPOBS · Aug 31, 2009

Magus420 said:
I put the stick between my index and middle fingers and vibrate my hand.

wtf magus claw :laugh:

KAOSTAR · Aug 31, 2009

I dont have problems winning lol. I just wanna smash outta the jab, at mid-higher percents I think you can just hold up tho.

KAOSTAR · Aug 31, 2009

double post ****ing suit me.

Yea ok, that answers my question.

25+ just hold up

and below crazy magus smash di **** lol.

Foy · Aug 31, 2009

Yo Scar/Anyone. How do i beat marths. -_- its the only matchup im terribad at.

Strong Badam · Aug 31, 2009

don't go near the ledge, don't become predictable, and make use of Falcon's speed in the match-up. falcon's on-stage game is better than Marth's in this match-up specifically, but he gets ***** off-stage/near the ledge, so you have to know how to stay on stage if you want to stand a chance.

BigD!!! · Aug 31, 2009

and now a less cliche answer

dash dance a lot. its possible to grab after marth misses any aerial, but its not always easy. if you dont think you can make it, they probably think you can, so just do some more real quick dashdances and they will usually do something like spot dodge or roll out of nervousness, and then you can punish that.

going towards the ledge isnt terrible vs marth, knee him near the edge at any % higher than really low and he probably cant make it back with his double jump, which means good edgeguarding opportunity for you. pay attention to the ways marth recovers, if he uses his jump early its generally pretty easy to just go hit him, especially with a ledgehop bair away from the ledge. if you can even uair him after he jumps when hes already off the ledge, he'll never make it back if you can edgehog.

figure out when the marth likes to do moves and eventually you'll get the timing of when to get in between those moves. be careful not to let this become how you fight all marths though, because if a different marth fights a little different you'll be jumping right into their moves. so do a lot of testing in the beginning, watch what they do after they miss, what they like to approach with, and so on. then later in the match/set start going after every opening

Heart Break Kid · Aug 31, 2009

BigD!!! said:
and now a less cliche answer

dash dance a lot. its possible to grab after marth misses any aerial

Thats ghey

I gotta play Scar some more

BigD!!! · Sep 1, 2009

well its possible to grab anyone after any aerial pretty much, except peach and jiggs' nair to crouch combo

be thankful that marth is one of the harder ones assuming youre not just sh fairing toward us

iamthemicrowave · Sep 1, 2009

BigD!!! said:
well its possible to grab anyone after any aerial pretty much, except peach and jiggs' nair to crouch combo

be thankful that marth is one of the harder ones assuming youre not just sh fairing toward us

plus marth uptilt after aerials is gay and i still fall for it too much

...it also gays me when i try and do moves out of shield.

P.C. Jona · Sep 1, 2009

Kyu Puff said:
Scar or anyone else I guess, was hoping I could get some critique on my falcon.

vs. Fox

vs. Falco
vs. Falco

uhh it's pretty bad but I'm trying to get a secondary that doesn't suck.

really good fox's and falco's are hard for falcon

fox is the worst tho

anyways vs falco what i like to do is hold my shield up when theyre pillaring
i hold it for a little to see if they mess up or if they go behind my shield then i get a free stomp (dont just attempt a shield grab, usually you get ***** for that)
and if its a low percents and you get the stomp and they fall down, the jab reset do another stomp or knee or grab or whatever
tech chase of course and remember not to try to extend a combo for to long since they die at lower percents then fox, so at like 60 stomp knee is death
for a fox thats more at like 70 or more
also when your tech chasing, although its common sense but its seems like most people forget to do it, dont just run and sh knee anywhere
make sure you hit the spots they are gonna be if they tech there
you did alot of attempted tech chase knees that came up short, try to measure it right

Alukard · Sep 1, 2009

iamthemicrowave said:
plus marth uptilt after aerials is gay and i still fall for it too much ...it also gays me when i try and do moves out of shield.

ur avatar ... is beast!!!!!

soap · Sep 1, 2009

BigD!!! said:
well its possible to grab anyone after any aerial pretty much, except peach and jiggs' nair to crouch combo

be thankful that marth is one of the harder ones assuming youre not just sh fairing toward us

u forgot sheik sh autocancel fair to crouch.

i gotta show u that one

Mokumo · Sep 1, 2009

usually they end up behind me, i try to stomp, then i get up tilt ***** wicked bad.

unless theyre dum and try to shine me when im about to stomp their face.

BigD!!! · Sep 1, 2009

soap thats a pretty good trick, but i feel like it is possible to grab you, despite it being very hard

im gonna be gone for at least a few days, so scar step up and cover for me

Scar talks Lean Melee [2012YotF]

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