Pictochat

I want this stage back. Its banned all over this region and I think thats stupid D:<

The stage is not unfit for competitive play. We ban it because of stupid one-time occurrences that caused us to lose sets we "should have won". If your opponent takes you to pictochat and you die to a stage hazzard...then they made a good CP. If your opponent takes you to pictochat and THEY die to a stage hazzard...they chose the stage and had tons of other options...aka they made a bad CP choice or should have played it safer. Banning it is childish. I want that stage back. Its an alternative to FD in the beginning and alot of the transformations are advantageous based on positioning for part of the cast. When its ALL SAID AND DONE the fact remains that if you lost game 1 and then lost game 3 on pictochat because of "something stupid"...you should have never lost game 1 and you should have played better on pictochat. There are maybe 3 parts that kill @ around 120%?? The flame does like NO damage...the bullets can be airdodged or countered and the other stuff is positional. If your upset because you have to airdodge thru stuff maybe you should consider that your opponent picked the stage for that very reason instead of crying out luck and other nonsense. Maybe sonics wanna go to Pictochat because they have trouble killing and they can camp and throw u into things for kill moves instead of fishing?? Thats using the stage and playing very smart...but when that happens to people they cry luck. Scrubby mentality should not determine our CP list...I want that stage back D:<

Pictochat needs to come back. We have frigate which is "random" . We have castle siege and delfino which are glitched beyond belief when transforming. And we have halbred with tons of hazzards. So why cant we have an alternate FD with the occasional hazzard?

If u dont like it...then ban it. "Awwww but Malcolm then i'll waste my only ban"...U think I like playing wario vs D3 and only being able to ban one gay stage? or meta and how he has 3 amazing CPs and we only get 1 ban?? I want my CPs back...and I want them NAO! -.-

And if someone plays me one of those ******** "pictochat should be banned videos" where WARIO THE BEST AIRDODGE IN THE GAME decides to A) jump off his bike randomly and get hit by bullets and B) not airdodge the bullets with his amazing airdodge...I will not be pleased

Absolutely not. I will die before I allow this stage at my events. Random, uncontrollable, unpredictable occurances can decide who wins. That is not acceptable.

Sorry, bro.

Go to the Midwest if you like luck-based/broken stages. >_>;

i'd let someone cp picto chat vs my falcon :D

Do the pictochat transformations spawn in order or is it random which transformation you get?

Kaiber Kop said:

Do the pictochat transformations spawn in order or is it random which transformation you get?

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Random.....

Sadaharu Inui said:

Random.....

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No thx then.

Sorry Malcolm. Still <3 best sonic

Sadaharu Inui said:

Absolutely not. I will die before I allow this stage at my events. Random, uncontrollable, unpredictable occurances can decide who wins. That is not acceptable.

Sorry, bro.

Go to the Midwest if you like luck-based/broken stages. >_>;

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That is an awful argument.

Explain what is random what is uncontrollable what is unpredictable (spell occurrences correctly) so that we can see your logic. Without knowing your opinion there is no way to argue against it.

I made a blog about this on aib a while ago, nobody cares about me...

Either way pictochat is awesome we should bring it back.

daisho said:

I made a blog about this on aib a while ago, nobody cares about me...

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This would greatly change if you didn't go to saturday school

Kaiber Kop said:

This would greatly change if you didn't go to saturday school

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lolz, its not saturday school. Its just my religion prohibits me from using electricity or fire on the sabbath (starting friday night to saturday night, sundown friday and when stars come out on saturday).

But about Pictochat. Who cares if its random? Oh my god a random platform appeared in front of me?!?!!? HOW CAN I ADAPT TO THIS...

daisho said:

religion

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Its because its random Daisho...you know...in this game we play which is completely not random. There is nothing random in this game. There is no tripping...i cant just fall thru delfino during transformation. Olimar doesnt have ghost pikmin. There arent 10,000 other random things like this in the game we play....so we CANNOT HAVE ANYTHING RANDOM.

Kai the transformations are random. Think of the transformations tho...I think thats the issue. People only remember the 3 transformations that killed them in march 08...and not the other 10 that come up and dont do anything but change the field. Smart players will not get hit with that if they are playing the APPROPRIATE WAY on that stage. If your dair camping with meta...and a platform shows up and u accidentally Dsmash and i punish or the bullet hits u...thats WHY I PICKED THE STAGE. To COUNTER U..with my...COUNTER PICK. I really like this stage. Its not gay...and the "randomness" that we all dread so much eliminates half the gay stuff in the game. There is a safespot in every drawing. D:<

we let camp-em-on stadium be allowed and 2 out of the 3 transformations in that level give such a STRONG UNFAIR advantadge to the person who takes it...that it forces a stalemate for 30 seconds. Pictochat gives "random" positional advantadges and smarter players who know the stage will take advantadge of that but wont have it for very long.

Sadaharu Inui said:

Absolutely not. I will die before I allow this stage at my events. Random, uncontrollable, unpredictable occurances can decide who wins. That is not acceptable.

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I take it you also ban Delfino, Castle Siege, Halberd, Yoshi's Island, Brinstar, Orpheon, and both Pokemon Stadiums, then.

MalcolmM said:

Kai the transformations are random. Think of the transformations tho...I think thats the issue. People only remember the 3 transformations that killed them in march 08...and not the other 10 that come up and dont do anything but change the field. Smart players will not get hit with that if they are playing the APPROPRIATE WAY on that stage. If your dair camping with meta...and a platform shows up and u accidentally Dsmash and i punish or the bullet hits u...thats WHY I PICKED THE STAGE. To COUNTER U..with my...COUNTER PICK. I really like this stage. Its not gay...and the "randomness" that we all dread so much eliminates half the gay stuff in the game. There is a safespot in every drawing. D:<

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I don't have enough experience with the stage to have an accurate opinion. Then again stages that I think should be banned(RC and Brinstar) are allowed.

Random events can decide who wins in every match. I cant even run without that happening.

bobson said:

I take it you also ban Delfino, Castle Siege, Halberd, Yoshi's Island, Brinstar, Orpheon, and both Pokemon Stadiums, then.

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To my knowledge, none of those stages have "random" occurrences. Each of the transformations happen at a set time and you should know what to expect.

crismas said:

To my knowledge, none of those stages have "random" occurrences. Each of the transformations happen at a set time and you should know what to expect.

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Oh yeah?

We're on pokemon stadium the last transformation was the windmill. Whats the next transformation?

We're on brinstar and the clock is @ 7:12 when is the lava coming up?

We're on frigate and 6:50 is left on the clock...when is it going to turn and whats the next transformation?

We're on delfino and I just so happened to be riding my bike. Oh look @ this I fell thru the floor near the stairs and died. Oh and now were on the original part of delfino...whats the next transformation?

What determines if the laser claw or ball are fired in halbred and what are the time intervals?

Oh and someone PLEASE answer this one for me. When the **** does that support ghost come up on yoshis and @ what interval? When does the platform on yoshis sway and at what direction does it start swaying?A NEUTRAL...RANDOM IS NOW NEUTRAL?

When does lylat tip? What makes it tip? How long does it remain flat? THIS IS A ****IN NEUTRAL STAGE AND ITS RANDOM


This game is so entirely random...you just CHOOSE not to see it that way. but you CHOOSE to see all the randomness in pictochat. I was able to see the piranha plant drawing BEING DRAWN and EVADE IT WITHOUT AN AIRDODGE WHILE DOING WARIOS DAIR ON WIFI...the drawing dont just appear in 1 frame. U have time to react...its just people arent willing to put in any time on the stage and then complain when things dont go their way.
Castle siege is the only acceptable stage. and even then...the transformation periods are glitched and COULD cause people to lose.

Not an attack on crismas...i just dont think people really see how random these stages really are and I wanted to clarify.

crismas said:

To my knowledge, none of those stages have "random" occurrences. Each of the transformations happen at a set time and you should know what to expect.

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Delfino: The stage transforms into the segment with walkoffs on either side instead of a different segment (which transformation it picks is up to chance). My opponent is Dedede, and chaingrabs me off the side for a win. A random, uncontrollable, unpredictable occurrence decided who won.

Castle Siege: The stage is transforming, and I randomly fall through the ground and die. A random, uncontrollable, unpredictable occurrence decided who won.

Halberd: The claw hits me while I'm recovering for a stock. A random, uncontrollable, unpredictable occurrence decided who won.

Yoshi's Island: I spike my opponent slightly off the edge. The ghost appears, and they tech off of it and kill me while I'm still in the lag from my spike. A random, uncontrollable, unpredictable occurrence decided who won.

Orpheon: The opponent grabs me, and then the stage decides to flip. The opponent keeps me in the grab while the stage flips and then footstools me. A random, uncontrollable, unpredictable occurrence decided who won.

Pokemon Stadiums: The stage switches to an area that gives the advantage to my opponent's character instead of one that's neutral. A random, uncontrollable, unpredictable occurrence decided who won.

Bonus: You can just randomly fall through the stage and die on Brinstar, Delfino, Castle Siege, and PS1. A random, uncontrollable, blah blah blah.

You could even throw Smashville in there at a stretch because of the balloon. If you say that these are acceptable events because you can reasonably prepare for them and react when they occur, then everything on Pictochat is also acceptable: all of the transformations spawn exactly thirteen seconds apart and last for thirteen seconds, all of them cycle through before repeating, and the hazards can be avoided on reaction if they happen to spawn on you.

MalcolmM said:

When does lylat tip? What makes it tip? How long does it remain flat? THIS IS A ****IN NEUTRAL STAGE AND ITS RANDOM

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Actually, Lylat tips depending on the background.
...but what background it chooses is random, so that's another stage you have to ban.

Okay.

I'm not worldly in knowing what times these occurrences happen at what times, and what the absolute times these happen. But especially playing on certain stages as I have multiple times, I can generally have the feeling of which occurrence will happen next. This is what imo makes the difference, for Picto it happens whenever and wherever and they're absolute hazards or obstacles.

There could be arguments made about every one of those counter picks, but I KNOW that Delfino will move, I KNOW lava will rise in Brinstar, I KNOW the stage will turn in Frigate etc etc. And you could just say you KNOW some **** will happen on Picto. But it's just that...some random occurrence that cannot necessarily be predicted. What it is, is the level of which and how much occurrence becomes random or hazardous. I guess you could just memorize everything that comes your way and watch out as you said Malcolm, that's cool. But I see the argument as to why people dislike it. And what the differences are between that and every other CP that was listed above.

Me personally? I'm neutral on the issue honestly. I see where you're coming from Malcolm, a random game is just that a random game. And it's a flat surface and it could be in your advantage. I'm all for that, I'm sure you're aware of the huge issue it become in the Melee community about CP's. Which is why I guess I can't say too much on the issue, I see your point, but I see why people would dislike it. But it can also be seen as why would you want to add on to an already random game.

I'm not trying to step on toes here, seriously :D

U dont know when those things will happen because they are random. U know pictochat will have drawings. Thats all you need to know. Play safe. The way people talk about it you would think there is a transformation where the entire floor randomly turns into lava and you take 10% just for touching it...oh wait...thats brinstar. <.<

Dont get me wrong...I like brinstar. I just dont see how we can allow that and not allow other stages. Its a realllllllly stupid stage competitively. Extended hitbox nonsense thanks to being able to hit the sides and random lava rising determing who lives and who dies...and whos able to hit the floor. I Fsmashed wyatt @ 150% with wario in teams and thanks to him having HORRIBLE DI brinstar saved his life. How does that not ruin competitive play? being rewarded for horrible play by a stage? But thats ok...we can live with that. Pictochat tho...thats crossing lines <.<


Randall the cloud in melee...moved around the stage and was on the left side of the stage whenever a 4 was the last digit on the clock. I can count on Randall. This **** on yoshis? He does w/e he wants...whenever he wants....as most things in this game do but we accept them. But because a year ago...when we played considerably stupider and weren't aware of as much we ran into some nonsense on pictochat and died and the stage was just thrown aside.

Peoples argument for banning halbred ages ago was "the hazzards can kill"...and to this day I still see matches being decided by that ball claw or laser but we keep it. Not 1 hazzard, but 3 on a stage that only has 2 transformations. But because the claw dangles in the background "good players" are supposed to see that and shield or time the spotdodge perfectly..but on pictochat these hazzards are just "out of control"and apparently unavoidable.

I wanna add it because I want more stages. Whenever I have to CP someone...its like a pre-determined neutral for most of the cast after someone intelligently uses their ban. I hate that. I like having an option for stages and being able to pick something that actually benefits me...since the other ridiculous characters have tons of stages that benefit them D:<

This stage doesnt allow you to play the same way the entire match. I like variety. Its fine for competitive play. It's a bad metaknight stage. (we currently have 0 of those on the CP list...so they all get to ban FD and then be carefree)

I don't think its any more random then peach pressing down b or G&W pressing side-b or DDD throwing a waddle dee. The game is filled with random. Pictochat is not that bad. The same drawing doesnt come out twice in a row...rarely does the same drawing even come out twice in a match. Each transformation is like 12 seconds long and then the screen is clear for around 10 seconds. If u keep all that in mind...bad things dont happen. But if the stage transformation ends...5 seconds go by and then u wanna start tossing out aerials with lag and charging smash attacks...then yes...u could die to something. Texas has had the stage on forever and none of the matches played on them strike me as "WOW BAN THIS" or else I wouldnt even be bringing it up. The matches look fun. They look competitive.

Atlantic north doesnt haaave to be the most strict boring region competitively. We can have fun...play on interesting stages...and still be a threat.

I agree with Malcolm lets ban everything but FD.

I agree with Malcolm on this. A counterpick is supposed to be a counterpick. This stage really isn't that random. Like bobson said, the transformations occur on regular intervals, plus it cycles through each transformation before repeating any. Each hazard is drawn into the background before actually forming on the stage, so you know what's coming. If you're not stupid, it takes only one play-through on each transformation to understand how not to die on each transformation.
This really isn't a luck-based stage. If someone grabs you and throws you into a missle and you die, it wasn't bad luck that killed you, it was someone throwing you into the missile that killed you.

Malcolm explained himself seesm fair and me and other players support him on this

Lets see the counterarguement :D

Personally, idc, but if we're talking about gayness, I'm pretty sure I heard that there's a wall on the Halberd ship area? The part with the claws and the layzorsz.

Malcolm makes alot of valid points though.

MalcolmM said:

Its because its random Daisho...you know...in this game we play which is completely not random. There is nothing random in this game. There is no tripping...i cant just fall thru delfino during transformation. Olimar doesnt have ghost pikmin. There arent 10,000 other random things like this in the game we play....so we CANNOT HAVE ANYTHING RANDOM. .

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So why willingly invite MORE random into the game?

There is no logical reason to create more randomness. There is no reason to allow a stage that can decide who wins because a wall appears or spikes kill you when you can do nothing about it.

bobson said:

I take it you also ban Delfino, Castle Siege, Halberd, Yoshi's Island, Brinstar, Orpheon, and both Pokemon Stadiums, then.

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I'd love to.

Sadaharu Inui said:

So why willingly invite MORE random into the game?

There is no logical reason to create more randomness. There is no reason to allow a stage that can decide who wins because a wall appears or spikes kill you when you can do nothing about it.

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That never happens... that is complete speculation and the chances that the spikes appear the second you attack are so slim... and there is no way they are worse than hitting someone into the claw on halberd or the lava on brinstar.

So far besides Inui's hatred of randomness nobody has given a real argument as to why pictochat should be banned.

Sadaharu Inui said:

I'd love to.

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Then why don't you?

Sadaharu Inui said:

Absolutely not. I will die before I allow this stage at my events. Random, uncontrollable, unpredictable occurances can decide who wins. That is not acceptable.

Sorry, bro.

Go to the Midwest if you like luck-based/broken stages. >_>;

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DID YOU KNOW that both PS1 AND PS2 change in random order?

And don't even get me started on Halberd's Combo Cannon & Frigate Orpheon. Don't. Even.


You should ban all of them.

Brawl would be much better if BF, FD, and SV were the only legal stages. Less fun? Maybe. Better for competitive play? Yes. We are already able to CP a character on someone to wreck who they use, why should we allow a stage too?

if those were the only 3 legal stages...i wouldnt ask for pictochat.....

but the fact is all the ALREADY GOOD CHARACTERS have like 4 possible counterpicks and the ones below them have to cling to one stage that will most likely be banned. Kai when you play against a meta in tourney or a snake or a D3 or a G&W and you have your stage ban...do you feel like your ban really means anything? They still have tons of options. But if its a 3/5 set and they ban FD...what happens? U ask them politely if they wanna go BACK to smashville? how is that fair? If they lose they are going to castle siege, delfino, frigate, rainbow, brinstar or a neutral if they really feel like it. If u lose...u beg to go back to the same neutral because nothing else benefits u. Unfair stage list remains unfair.

MalcolmM said:

if those were the only 3 legal stages...i wouldnt ask for pictochat.....

but the fact is all the ALREADY GOOD CHARACTERS have like 4 possible counterpicks and the ones below them have to cling to one stage that will most likely be banned. Kai when you play against a meta in tourney or a snake or a D3 or a G&W and you have your stage ban...do you feel like your ban really means anything? They still have tons of options. But if its a 3/5 set and they ban FD...what happens? U ask them politely if they wanna go BACK to smashville? how is that fair? If they lose they are going to castle siege, delfino, frigate, rainbow, brinstar or a neutral if they really feel like it. If u lose...u beg to go back to the same neutral because nothing else benefits u. Unfair stage list remains unfair.

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Yeah my comment was meant for the smartasses who posted before me. I didn't mean it in relation to pictochat.

I see your point. The only stages I truly worry about are Brinstar and BF. I do see how it's unfair for some characters to have more than others. Usually my CP's are all to neutrals. SV like you said. Ehh with BS like Brinstar allowed I'd much rather play Pictochat tbh. I wouldn't have an issue with it simply bc I think brinstar is lame and if it were banned theres no way I'd want pictochat. Adding a legit CP to my options is cool but I don't know if I'd feel the same way if it didn't benefit my characters.

Hmm...well Malcolm, you know, the reasons you want other stages gone applies to Pictochat as well.

But if I ever got to play in FD, oh mah gah!

MalcolmM said:

if those were the only 3 legal stages...i wouldnt ask for pictochat.....

but the fact is all the ALREADY GOOD CHARACTERS have like 4 possible counterpicks and the ones below them have to cling to one stage that will most likely be banned. Kai when you play against a meta in tourney or a snake or a D3 or a G&W and you have your stage ban...do you feel like your ban really means anything? They still have tons of options. But if its a 3/5 set and they ban FD...what happens? U ask them politely if they wanna go BACK to smashville? how is that fair? If they lose they are going to castle siege, delfino, frigate, rainbow, brinstar or a neutral if they really feel like it. If u lose...u beg to go back to the same neutral because nothing else benefits u. Unfair stage list remains unfair.

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yea, this is a legit arguement.. chars like falco, sonic, etc suffer from multiple cp stages. and their only good stage usually get banned.. heck, why not add Japes in the process? that will make it so MK users feel threatened for once.

BleachigoZX said:

Hmm...well Malcolm, you know, the reasons you want other stages gone applies to Pictochat as well.

But if I ever got to play in FD, oh mah gah!

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i know what u mean.. when players like SK92 actually have that stage to CP (FD)cuz ppl like Dojo and M2k have to ban japes..

Sadaharu Inui said:

I'd love to.

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Btw, I agree that most counterpicks should stay in, but some are just way too gay and should go. Mute City, Jungle Japes, and Green Greens are the gayest, but I don't see big problems with Brinstar and Rainbow Cruise.

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I'm confused homie. Why are you for keeping cp stages in melee, but would love to ban them in brawl?

TL can kill all characters at 0% on pictochat ^.^

daisho said:

That never happens... that is complete speculation and the chances that the spikes appear the second you attack are so slim... and there is no way they are worse than hitting someone into the claw on halberd or the lava on brinstar.

So far besides Inui's hatred of randomness nobody has given a real argument as to why pictochat should be banned.

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It has happened to me in tournament sets multiple times. Just recently at HOBO 18, that stage cost me the set against Lee Martin.

Pictochat has random, unpredictable, potentially game-deciding occurances. That is all that is needed. I will never budge on this stage, and my rules tend to be used for nationals and regionals and especially NJ, so lol.

bobson said:

Then why don't you?

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I can't force my opinions onto my people all the time. I need to be standard to have my tournaments be successful.

BlazingKatakiri said:

DID YOU KNOW that both PS1 AND PS2 change in random order?

And don't even get me started on Halberd's Combo Cannon & Frigate Orpheon. Don't. Even.


You should ban all of them.

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Did you know that those random occurances have warnings, are predictable, and ot as deadly as stuff on Pictochat?

Eazy23 said:

I'm confused homie. Why are you for keeping cp stages in melee, but would love to ban them in brawl?

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Melee is a good game. Brawl is campy and stupid. Brawl has more stupidness that needs to be removed.

I would like to see this match...

What hazards actually kill?

The pikes do like 10 damage, the plant does about the same, the fire is pointless, the spikes on the side are just really cool because you can combo off them (COMBOS) and the bombs are the only stupid ones.

Did you ever think that it could be your inexperience on the stage that killed you?

daisho said:

I would like to see this match...

What hazards actually kill?

The pikes do like 10 damage, the plant does about the same, the fire is pointless, the spikes on the side are just really cool because you can combo off them (COMBOS) and the bombs are the only stupid ones.

Did you ever think that it could be your inexperience on the stage that killed you?

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Nope, it wasn't. I was in the air, and the spikes appeared and hit me and did damage. I got hit and while I was flying through the air, the missles appeared and one hit me. I had a CG interrupted by fire.

I was Dedede, so I didn't die, but I took damage that cost me the match considering it was last hit.

Sadaharu Inui said:

Nope, it wasn't. I was in the air, and the spikes appeared and hit me and did damage. I got hit and while I was flying through the air, the missles appeared and one hit me. I had a CG interrupted by fire.

I was Dedede, so I didn't die, but I took damage that cost me the match considering it was last hit.

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How is that any worse than if your playing as DDD on delfino and you infinite someone against a wall? Or chaingrab someone on the walkoff part on castle siege?

Those impact games just as often and have much more of an impact than about 50%...

daisho said:

How is that any worse than if your playing as DDD on delfino and you infinite someone against a wall? Or chaingrab someone on the walkoff part on castle siege?

Those impact games just as often and have much more of an impact than about 50%...

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You can use skill and knowledge and observation to avoid those things.

You can't use such things to avoid Pictochat hazards. It's all luck.