Ronike's Test Subject Mafia: Game's Over: Town Wins! Nick pulls a Hando

Riddle · Sep 27, 2009

Tom said:
Haha I just fully caught up. Still on phone, but Jesus Christ I disagree with almost everything that I have seen on Day 2. Why the **** are people attacking Nicholas LOL. Marshy called Mentosman a village idiot? LOL. I'll probably post a **** ton tonight but WTF are Gheb and Rockin and Riddle even talkng about. Junglefever telling someone to be involved in discussion LOL.

Some people are hyperclear for me, and some others seem townie/worth. I will dissect tonight and choose 1-2 people that I think are scum and I'll grill some burgers.

I'm looking forward to reading your thoughts. You have been rather opinion-less. If you post enough and I like it I might put you into low tier on my scum tier list. :lick:

Care to say what you find weird about what Gheb Rockin and I have been talking about? I want to see a scum tier list or something similar from you also.

#HBC | marshy · Sep 27, 2009

unvote rockin

DtJ Jungle · Sep 27, 2009

I'm pretty sure he's V/LA until this afternoon.

Riddle · Sep 27, 2009

Marshy said:
unvote rockin

Reasons? I don't like posts that just consist of voting and unvoting one bit.

Junglefever said:
I'm pretty sure he's V/LA until this afternoon.

I know that was for when he gets home. I have talked to him on AIM.

~ Gheb ~ · Sep 27, 2009

Some people confuse me (looks @ Marshy)...also I'm really curious to see that post Tom is talking about. Good to see some new activity though.

Riddle said:
To be fair you have also suggested to the cop who he should investigate. He is trying to use my arguments as his own though and I really don't like that.

When did I do that? I only said "I hope the cop investigated Nick".

Lynching scum is infinitely more helpful than lynching weak townies. I am more able to accept the philosophy of having the vig shoot weak townies though.

I'd much rather take advantage of our mislynches to get multiple chances at lynching scum.

Of course. Lynching scum is always top priority. I don't think I need to argue that.

Everybody who says that they want Nick dead could be scum and indy for all I know.

Can you please explain that closer? Everybody who wants Nick dead COULD be scum/indie but they also could be town. What is this all about?

~ Gheb ~ · Sep 27, 2009

Btw just to add something about Rockin. I said it before but if he answers my questions I don't have a need to vote him (unless he posts scummy).

Riddle · Sep 27, 2009

Gheb_01 said:
Some people confuse me (looks @ Marshy)...also I'm really curious to see that post Tom is talking about. Good to see some new activity though.

I want to see Tom's post too.

Gheb_01 said:
When did I do that? I only said "I hope the cop investigated Nick".

Here you go:

Gheb_01 said:
...I think we should have the cop take care of Rockin...

I'm not saying you are telling the cop who to investigate. I was saying you were suggesting to the cop who to investigate.

Gheb_01 said:
Of course. Lynching scum is always top priority. I don't think I need to argue that.

Why are you so convinced we need to kill Rockin and Nick then? It keeps seeming like you want to lynch them because they are bad townies. Correct me if I'm wrong though.

Gheb_01 said:
Can you please explain that closer? Everybody who wants Nick dead COULD be scum/indie but they also could be town. What is this all about?

You keep saying that the majority of town wants Nick dead. My point is that that is completely untrue and for all I know none of town could want Nick dead. While it is highly unlikely that this is the case, you can hardly say that most of the town wants Nick dead since it is probably not true.

Ronike · Sep 27, 2009

Flavor maybe coming later. I have a bit of a problem.

Vote Count:

Nick(1): Mentos,
Rockin(2): Nick, Gheb
Gheb(1): Riddle

Frozen is V/LA until tomorrow.

#HBC | marshy · Sep 27, 2009

Tom said:
Marshy called Mentosman a village idiot?

i did? he's not. definitely retract that

Rockin · Sep 27, 2009

Gheb_01 said:
So you say you only speak up when you're about to die regardless of the situation and your own personal success is more important than town winning?

Exactly why town needs you to be dead.

If there's a vig. out there shoot nick please this really makes me wish we could lynch more than 1 person.

I didn't say that at al. Don't twist my words. >>

I said I rather defend myself then just tell my opinion on the topic at hand. Proving my innocence and explaining my actions are more important AT THE MOMENT then telling my 2 cents. Really, if I notice something of suspicion, I'd speak up about it.

Gheb_01 said:
Rockin isn't contributing AT ALL. I asked him questions right after D2 started but he didn't answer them. Instead he said "he'd rather prove his innosence when it matters than posting my opinion" although he even quoted the post where I asked him about his opinions. Speaking up when you're about to die is obviously OK but that not what bothers me (and I CLEARLY said so) it's the fact that Rockin refuses to post his opinion despite the fact that right now we have A LOT to work with.

Okay, that question you posted was made at somewhere at 9AM for me. I was sleeping at the time from midnight shift of late night thursday (my shift is from 11PM to 7 AM. I got home at 8AM). Then I got up at around 1 PM and made a post in the other topic saying I both lost internet and is going to an anime convention (WHILE noting that I'll still be posting, but it'll be less. I'm using my grandmother's computer as we speak).

Your post explains that you aknowledge the post I made in the other thread (V/LA thread). However, your post also switch from 'Hey, I need you to speak up more' to 'You should definitally die' all in a good number of post. You pretty much didn't give me a CHANCE to answer your questions. No need to contribute on the discussion if you and others are making me go defense mode.

Gheb_01 said:
Even if he's asked to do so he doesn't state what he thinks, which is scummy. My vote on him is more than justified because just now he confirmed what Marshy accused him for.

Read the above comment. Again, if I didn't have a lot of votes on me, then I would put in my 2 cents.

Gheb_01 said:
Of course. Lynching scum is always top priority. I don't think I need to argue that.

Riddle already asked this, but I'm curious as to why you think lynching a weak townie is over the fact of lynching a scum. Sure, we can afford some mislynches, but should we waste them on erasing out the weak members?

Now that the votes calmed down a bit, I guess I could speak out who I find suspicious and whatnot.

I found nick slightly suspicious on D1 and there's still some suspicion on D2. I just don't like the stuff he's been posting, as several pointed out. I'll have to look at his past posts more closely, but so far he doesn't warrent a vote yet. I guess my main suspect is you, Gheb. The way on how you twist on both my words and his isn't good and how your sudden 'switch' was on me (Meaning again that you want from 'Speak up and be a bit more active' to 'Okay, you need to die').

I'm a bit curious as to wonder where Frozen is at, but I'll still give him some time before I vote to prod him. Even though he doesn't post much, they are usually filled with good information.

~ Gheb ~ · Sep 28, 2009

I was waiting for a post like that.

Unvote Rockin

Just to add someting:

"Riddle already asked this, but I'm curious as to why you think lynching a weak townie is over the fact of lynching a scum"

Never said that...

~ Gheb ~ · Sep 28, 2009

btw I wait for Tom's big post before I vote again just in case somebody wonders why I don't vote nick...

Rockin · Sep 28, 2009

Gheb_01 said:
I was waiting for a post like that.

Unvote Rockin

Just to add someting:

"Riddle already asked this, but I'm curious as to why you think lynching a weak townie is over the fact of lynching a scum"

Never said that...

Never said you did, but this is the mindset I'm reading from you from recent post.

#HBC | marshy · Sep 28, 2009

pointing out that frozen said he'd be v/la until today in the other thread

Riddle · Sep 28, 2009

If tom doesn't make his promised post soon I am going to vote him. If in one day the post isn't up my vote is straight to him.

~ Gheb ~ · Sep 28, 2009

I dunno it's strange how people seem to avoid discussion at this point it doesn't make sense unless you're scum. Frozen is supposed to be back, Tom still didn't post the "big one", Jungle doesn't seem to have a lot to say, haven't heard a lot from Kevin recently and idk about mentos either. It's really frustrating. People behaving strangely doesn't help a lot either...Marshy voting/unvoting without telling his reasons, Tom keeping us wait...don't like the direction things are going right now.

Vote Nick

Not gonna bother waiting for Tom to post his stuff anymore. I want nick to die asap all his last posts are either BS or wishy-washy stuff that's just misleading.

Riddle · Sep 28, 2009

I honestly think Tom's semi-coasting is very out of character and enough to warrant a lynch. Tom usually contirbutes quite a bit and he hasn't contributed much at all yet. He had his vote on me all day yesterday starting at the end of the RVS. He didn't find anybody scummy and now today he has hardly posted anything at all. Now, he promises us a big post and doesn't give us one.

Tom never is like this and this big of a change in playstyle makes me think he is scum/indie.

#HBC | marshy · Sep 28, 2009

well. i have a feeling frozen/me/tom have just been busy lately

weird how kevin's getting no heat despite saying nothing all day

Riddle · Sep 28, 2009

Marshy said:
well. i have a feeling frozen/me/tom have just been busy lately

weird how kevin's getting no heat despite saying nothing all day

I didn't even remember Kevin was in this game.

Frozen has posted that he is V/LA in another thread I believe. You have posted some useful things today.

Kevin/Tom post or I am going to be

I still find Tom mroe scummy though because of his day 1 actions.

#HBC | marshy · Sep 28, 2009

that's pretty vague

KevinM · Sep 28, 2009

I just don't agree with how D2 is going and I'm reading through over and over again looking for something.

The problem is.. I'm not sure what i'm looking for.

Tom · Sep 28, 2009

Perhaps I have stretched myself too thin lately. I am currently playing Star Fox Mafia, Grammy's Mafia, Test Subject Mafia, another three games at Mafiascum, an adventure game here (Stranded), hosting my own Mafia game, and putting the final touches on my own adventure game (Evolution). I am also taking 17 hours of classes, and I recently joined a new roleplaying community (albeit because a girl I very much like is a large contributor to it). And I still somehow find time to spend entire weekends away at comicbook/anime conventions and going to video game tournaments.

Regardless of my above life, Riddle... how would you even know what is normal Tom play? Have we ever played a mafia game together? Or are you simply operating on assumption?

I normally give KevinM brownie townie points in every game we play together because I love him to pieces and he is a-whole-nother level of a player that I'm not. We think totally differently and balancing myself off of his play helps me a lot. However, his play in this game has exceeded this level, especially his spearheading (along with Karthik King) the successful lynch on the mafia recruiter.

Riddle, basically everything you're saying to me right now is wrong, and yet, I don't think it is scummy. I think you are simply on autopilot on how you think you're supposed to play Mafia. You're picking up on facts about players and voting them for them even when those facts don't make them inherently mafia aligned instead of town aligned. You need to focus on things that you think scum would do and not things that anyone could do.

Let's get back to the game, then.

This post is all of the cogs and wheels turning in my head being set on the table for everyone to see. It should contain my thoughts on the setup itself, game flavor, every single player and their stances, SwordsR's relation to my lynch pool, and my current conclusions.

I think that we are now hunting a single mafia player and an independent player. In a 12 player game, with a successful mafia recruiter, that would make the game 3-1-8. Since the recruiter died before he could recruit, and a townie has died, that makes the current game 1-1-9. This is a swingy but balanced setup theory, based around the mafia recruiter. The independent was thrown in because of the "other threat" flavor in purple text at the end of Day 1. Before anyone blindly attempts to discount the theory because one of its legs is flavor based, think about it, and respond in turn.

The Day 2 flavor, my dream of being the Pirate King of Hell, captaining my leaky pirate ship into the hellish night sky, was not an accident. I was bewildered, however, that it actually happened. It, really being nothing but flavor text, but still.

It is impossible to indy-hunt. However, given the cardflip that we got from Swords, it is completely possible to scum-hunt with yesterday's paper trail. And much more effective. For these two reasons, my lynch pool does not consider possible independent roles as a viable defining factor between "lynchable" and "dont want to lynch."

I do not think that the other mafia player was on Sword's lynch. This is not only simply because of the way the SwordsR lynch solidified at the end of Day, when a mafia wouldn't dare submit a bussed lynch candidate instead of a possibly scummy town lynch candidate, but also because Swords was inherently worth 2 mafia players, as the recruiter. This means that I can eliminate Junglefever, KevinM, Riddle, and Rockin from my scum-hunt. This narrows my lynch pool to Frozenflame751, Marshy, Gheb, Mentos, and Nicholas.

#215, Swords is up for Gheb's Frozenflame wagon. Slightly nudges Frozen away from my highest priorities.

Mentosman was on the Swords lynch up until Swords claimed bodyguard. This is when he hopped off. I don't think Mentos would be on it to begin with if he were scum mates with Swords.

Examining the Nicholas - SwordsRbroken connection, I do not think that they were scum together. This is in part based on their in-game connections, and in part based on context clues and flavor. SwordsRbroken's panacea, as the mafia recruiter, had developed into an asexual entity that could reproduce and taint another player. I was told this by Ronike.

Directly towards Nicholas, the only real question I have for him is: why do you think that Karthik King was a non-mafia nightkill target? I have a few possible answers in my head, each possibly telling of things pretty different from each other. It would be nice if you would answer that, clarify your exact thought process.

On the general subject of Nicholas, I find it stupid that people are grilling him so hard right now. I don't even understand why they are. Riddle and Junglefever are questioning him, but they were on the SwordsR lynch - this leads me to believe that it is just bad play on their part. Gheb and Mentos were not on the final Swords lynch, so this works against them.

I will not say that the flavor in this game is important, but it shouldn't be ignored like normal. This game seems to be designed specifically around certain Panacea traits, right down to how the roles were designed. In #310, Ronike explicitly states that Panacea will cure illnesses and will heighten attributes of people who are not sick. This leads me to believe that while some roles were randomized, others were specifically tailored to the player who signed up. My own role backs this theory up greatly. Karthik_King's does as well. Swords, as a mafia brother, would be an interesting role to go alongside Nicholas the non-mafia brother. Swords reasoning for joining the game was unknown. He simply joined the game near the end when it needed players. Therefore, I don't think he had any disease.

Riddle said:
If tom doesn't make his promised post soon I am going to vote him. If in one day the post isn't up my vote is straight to him.

Riddle, do you recognize what you just said? "Tom said that he is going to post. If he doesn't, I will vote him." What, exactly, are you hunting for? Is procrastination an inherently scummy attribute? Am I, or is anyone, more prone to overtly imposing self-deadlines if I, or they, are mafia aligned? You are doing it wrong. Obviously it wouldn't be a pressure vote, as I said I would do it even before you threatened to vote. So... what are you doing, besides "doing it wrong?"

Gheb_01 said:
I dunno it's strange how people seem to avoid discussion at this point it doesn't make sense unless you're scum. Frozen is supposed to be back, Tom still didn't post the "big one", Jungle doesn't seem to have a lot to say, haven't heard a lot from Kevin recently and idk about mentos either. It's really frustrating. People behaving strangely doesn't help a lot either...Marshy voting/unvoting without telling his reasons, Tom keeping us wait...don't like the direction things are going right now.

Vote Nick

Not gonna bother waiting for Tom to post his stuff anymore. I want nick to die asap all his last posts are either BS or wishy-washy stuff that's just misleading.

Gheb, you are also doing it wrong. "All his last posts are either BS or wishy-washt stuff that's just misleading." I have read the entire thread. I do not see anything coming from Nicholas that is either bull****, inherently wrong, or wishy-washy. I don't see him misleading us at all. I have only seen ONE confusing thing from Nicholas, and that is his opinion

Two challenges.

I challenge you to actually build a case on the person you suspect, who at this moment is Nicholas. Vague answers are a simple cop out. If your case is good, then you surely can summarize it in bulletpoint notation.

I challenge you to look at Nicholas again after reading my post, and ask yourself why you're focusing on him.

I am leaning towards 1) Marshy, 2) Frozen or Gheb right now.

I think this is an acceptable stopping point for now. I am going to continue thinking. I will not vote yet, however, not only because I have yet to properly reach a conclusion, but also because voting severely complicates things if I change my mind.

Riddle · Sep 28, 2009

To answer some of your questions Tom, yes we have played a mafia game together (BAd idea mafia) and I have skimmed through some other ones. Procrastination is not a scummy habit but lack of contribution is very anti-town. You actually pretty effectively stifled discussion with your promise of a big post. Most of this is based off of what I have heard though. The reason I wanted to vote for you was based on several things, your lack of the promised post and your lack of scumhunting day 1. The biggest reason is the lack of scumhunting day 1, and the lack of the post just annoyed me more than anything. But I also see it as stalling somewhat. Don't think I am ignoring your points. I am still new and advice is greatly appreciated. However, my current vote on Gheb is based on things scum would do. Namely power role manipulation, pseudo-hunting, and his blatant bandwagoning except (as you pointed out) on the mafia lynch. Gheb is my current number 1 lynch target. For these reasons.

To clear things up my vote was because of your unhelpful Day 1 play and because you promised a post and didn't give it which annoyed me. Now that you have both contributed and posted what you said you would I have no current reason to suspect you.

mentosman8 · Sep 28, 2009

Tom, to answer your question as to why I have been grilling Nick, quite simply because there seemed to be a semi-mutual connection between the two, and combining the not-too-major not-too-minor suspicions I had on him D1, it seemed like a good place to start looking D2. By the end of the day, I'm not sure my vote will be anywhere near him, as I continue to read things that are shifting my perspective. So, long story short, I needed a place to start today, and he was a very reasonable start.

Now, as for who I'm suspicious of right now? There's still some suspicion of Nick, as I mentioned. Gheb I'm still not feeling particularly as scum, but his slamming me with things that weren't true then taking it back as soon as I called it out has me looking his way(specifically the tunnel-visioning Nick D1 when, if anyone, I was tunnelling swords all day).

Other than that Frozen is up there, not just because of inactivity, but also because his couple posts still seem semi-off from what I expect. Plus, he's still alive

Tom, you are still there a bit, but that post gave me a much better idea of where your heads at on the game, which was one of the major things throwing up a red flag. having heard from you like that does help ease this, but I'm still not entirely sure on you. Regardless, good to see I have some agreement we likely only have 1 scum remaining.

Ronike · Sep 28, 2009

Swords' reason for joining was to get better at mafia, but I also included the fact that he was Nick's brother IN THE FLAVOR, not in deciding his role.

Also, just so you all know, FF has 6 more hours to post, and then he gets his third prod, and if he doesn't post within 24 hours, he gets modkilled. I also told him if he doesn't contribute in three days, he gets the prod and/or modkill. If you want a modkill to end the day, I can arrange that.

Tom · Sep 28, 2009

I do NOT want a modkill to end the day.

#HBC | marshy · Sep 28, 2009

gheb is my favorite lynch right now vote gheb

eh. i'll reread him and elaborate. this post is to force me to

i'm most interested in hearing from frozen on his general thoughts and what nick makes of gheb hating on him some more in 435

kevin is there anything specific that you want to see from anyone that'd help?

~ Gheb ~ · Sep 28, 2009

Tom said:
I do not think that the other mafia player was on Sword's lynch. This is not only simply because of the way the SwordsR lynch solidified at the end of Day, when a mafia wouldn't dare submit a bussed lynch candidate instead of a possibly scummy town lynch candidate, but also because Swords was inherently worth 2 mafia players, as the recruiter. This means that I can eliminate Junglefever, KevinM, Riddle, and Rockin from my scum-hunt. This narrows my lynch pool to Frozenflame751, Marshy, Gheb, Mentos, and Nicholas.

The reason my vote wasn't on swords at the end of D1 is simply that I wasn't there when his claim happened and the deadline passed. My last post before the D1 ended was ~18 hrs earlier (Ronike mentioned it a few posts before). When I got back the deal already went down and D1 was over before I could post anything. Besides is also possible that his scum partner decided to just throw him under the bus because nobody except mentos unvoted and there was too little time to get the 3 unvotes (plus Kevin added his vote on him) so it's very vague to base your scumpool on those 4 players, who didn't vote.

Gheb, you are also doing it wrong. "All his last posts are either BS or wishy-washt stuff that's just misleading." I have read the entire thread. I do not see anything coming from Nicholas that is either bull****, inherently wrong, or wishy-washy. I don't see him misleading us at all. I have only seen ONE confusing thing from Nicholas, and that is his opinion

Two challenges.

I challenge you to actually build a case on the person you suspect, who at this moment is Nicholas. Vague answers are a simple cop out. If your case is good, then you surely can summarize it in bulletpoint notation.

I challenge you to look at Nicholas again after reading my post, and ask yourself why you're focusing on him.

OK, here are the reasons why I think Nick needs to die (not even counting the fact that he was on my radar since early D1)...It starts with mentos voting him. This is his defense to mentos points (connection nick/swords + KK NK right after D2 starts):

Nicholas1024 said:
Well, what do you want from me? Swords well... although he had been buddying up to me, I didn't think it was a scumtell, as it was his first time playing (or close enough. He got daykilled within a day of joining his other game), and I am his bigger brother.

Drawing the newbie card again even after he (or swords can't remember which one) was told not to do so is what this post is all about. It's not even a defense it's just fluff that we thought we already got over with.
Later, when I asked some questions to the other players and questioned mentos' reasons for voting nick I wrote this:

Gheb_01 said:
- The "connection" between swords and nick ... not sure about that one because it was largely based on swords' behaviour and the fact that they are brothers. My impression of nick is that he tried to neither buddy too much with swords nor to be overly rejective towards him, which I think is what town would also do. However, swords' flip makes things more complicated so I def. want to hear nicks point of view and more than just a "what do you want me to say" because there clearly IS something to say on your part.

Gheb_01 said:
- The KK lynch incriminates nick but everybody should keep in mind that he whole thing is also WIFOM (this is especially @ mentos). If nick is scum he still has to convinve his mafia buddy to NK kk...something I rather doubt. Scum usually NKs the strongest town player. Why KK? He's been semi-suspicious himself for a while (and his playstyle isn't easy to handle). Probably because KKs death was bound to incriminate nick...

And suddenly the next time this case is brought up nick's using EXACTLY my reasoning in his own words:

Nicholas1024 said:
You do realize that the main points against me are:

1) The KK kill
2) Swords buddying me

Both of which are out of my control. How do you want me to defend that? I've already given my theory as to the KK kill, and it's not under my control whether someone decides to buddy me or not.

Ok, how does this make sense? First johning about being new and making useless speculations by suggesting an unlikely SK/Roleblock scenario to clear himself off suspicion but then just use a whole different argument THAT IS NOT EVEN HIS OWN? That's scummy to no limit...it's blatant opportunism and it's full of contradictions.

First he speculates about how KK could've died and suggests that it could be the SK but then suddenly (after my posts) he is 100% convinced that mafia tries to frame him.

Other things:

Nicholas1024 said:
Wow. A lot of stuff happens over the course of 3-4 hours...

First of all, I think Marshy has built a solid case against Rockin. He hasn't really contributed despite posting fairly frequently, so...

Vote Rockin

Jumping the Rockin BW for what reason? A "solid case by Marshy"? Sounds more like an attempt to have somebody else take the spotlight because Rockin already had 2 votes at that time.

Nicholas1024 said:
On the other hand, Gheb also has some interesting points against Mentos. Although it's quite possible that Mentos was merely reacting to the kill, he could also be scum trying to push my lynch. However, I don't think he was being particularly tunnel-visioned, as no other D2 discussion had been raised yet. At any rate, I agree with Marshy that Rockin takes priority.

Wishy-washy fluff, kind of agree with everything that has been said but nothing of substance. Agree with Gheb but not quite, disagree with mentos but give some credit to him but overall still voting for Rockin because he also kinda agrees with Marshy.

That's shameless opportunism.

Nicholas1024 said:
I prefer not to assume anything. If your assumption happens to be wrong, you could really be setting yourself up for a disaster. Yes, KK being the mafia kill in an attempt to frame me is the likeliest scenario... but it isn't the only one. It doesn't hurt to keep them in mind.

Response to Marshy's objection regarding the KK kill situation and Nick's speculation about NK/Block. Marshy tells nick that speculation about an unlikely scenario doesn't help town and nick responds with a threat/AtoE-hybrid to justify said speculation. That's highly misleading because he's picking up a point again that nobody cares about. Trying to draw attention to a minor subject helps whom? Town or scum?

Nicholas1024 said:
You do realize that mafia godfather is a role in most mafia games? If they're suspicious, lynch them. Don't waste a day for the cop to make an investigation which might be wrong anyway.

Highly misleading. Not taking SEVERAL things into account: sometimes there's more than just 1 suspicious player and it would be nice to have the cop confirm this. Or sometimes somebody has to claim the cop can double check it.

But no let's rather assume the unlikely scenario that the cop investigates the GF (chances for the cop to actually investigate him are less than 10%) even though there's possibly not even one in the game. A recruiter already died and he already speculated about a blocker being there too. Now, when it comes to what the cop has to do there's suddenly a GF too and thus we should be careful even if though the cop can still find us a guilty in case we need it.

The point is: When you have multiple lynch targets it's a good strategy to lynch one and have the cop check the other. Why would anybody discourage it?

Nicholas1024 said:
Seriously Gheb, quit trying to control every PR in the town.

Trying to blame me by using lies/exaggerations. Misleading.

Nicholas1024 said:
I never said we shouldn't distrust the cop just because of the possibility of a godfather. My point is, don't change the lynch target because we might gain more from one player getting cleared than the others, especially since there's a possibility that the cop investigation might be wrong.

Again, trying to build a fictive argument against me. I never changed my vote until later, when Rockin answered my question so this post has basically no content. Misleading.

...

I hope this answer is good enough for you, Tom

~ Gheb ~ · Sep 28, 2009

Got ninja'd

~ Gheb ~ · Sep 28, 2009

FoS Marshy

Voting me after being mentioned by several other players (Tom, Riddle, Rockin) as potential scum is lame. Cheap way to start a BW against me without posting a reason at best.

Nicholas1024 · Sep 28, 2009

First of all, Unvote Rockin There are better suspects now.

@Tom
The reason I raised that as a possibility, was because KK had been a lynch candidate day 1, and I didn't see it too far-fetched of a possibility that the vig agreed with my D1 position that KK was scum, and KK was an unlikely candidate for mafia NK. In short, it was the first scenario that occured to me. Shortly afterwords, I realized that mafia could also be using it to push my lynch, which is why I listed the scenarios in that order and not the other way around.

@Gheb
Given the way that people had been pushing my lynch following the KK NK, I realized that even if the first scenario I had given was correct (that the vig/SK did it), mafia were definitely using it for their own ends.

I'm willing to bet that if I had simply restated the parts of marshy's argument that I agreed with, you would have said "Oh look, he's using marshy's reasoning as his own!" If I reiterate what people have said, you accuse me of using reasoning not my own, if I simply say I agree with said people, you accuse me of "jumping the bandwagon" and "trying to let someone else take the spotlight". Since I'm not on 24/7, usually someone points out the flaws in the case against me before I have a chance to do so.

@Marshy
As far as Gheb goes, there's only one thing to say, and that's "Dumb or scum?" I'm leaning towards scum.

So, Vote Gheb for:

1) He doesn't vote person X without fishing around to make sure people agree that person X is scum, making sure he'll never be the lone voice pushing a townie lynch. Scummy.

2) According to him, everything I do is scummy. If I restate an argument I agree with, I'm "using someone else's reasoning", if I simply say I agree with someone, it's "nothing useful", if I give my own position it's either "wishy-washy" or crap. Combine this with the fact that mafia are likely using the NK to try to get me lynched, and you get a scumtell.

~ Gheb ~ · Sep 29, 2009

Can we please modkill frozenflame now? I'm against modkills ending toDay btw.

Nicholas1024 said:
@Marshy
As far as Gheb goes, there's only one thing to say, and that's "Dumb or scum?" I'm leaning towards scum.

You're so funny ^^

So, Vote Gheb for:

Jumping the BW + OMGUSing me doesn't help your case a lot either

1) He doesn't vote person X without fishing around to make sure people agree that person X is scum, making sure he'll never be the lone voice pushing a townie lynch. Scummy.

Fishing around? I'm not making sure if other people are up for voting you. I try to convince THEM to vote YOU. You're lying again. Misleading once more. +1 reason to lynch you.

2) According to him, everything I do is scummy. If I restate an argument I agree with, I'm "using someone else's reasoning", if I simply say I agree with someone, it's "nothing useful", if I give my own position it's either "wishy-washy" or crap. Combine this with the fact that mafia are likely using the NK to try to get me lynched, and you get a scumtell.

Using WIFOM that I pointed out myself as an argument against me? That's hella weak, man. Lame exceuse to jump the BW at best.

Ronike · Sep 29, 2009

A giant claw descends from the ceiling and scrapes away some of the Panacea left in the area of Swords' corpse. None of you had really felt like cleaning it up after yesterday's revelations...

"Some of our scientists are going to investigate this and see if we can't get you more info. We'll let you know when we know."

Vote Count:

Nick(2): Mentos, Gheb
Gheb(2): Riddle, Nick

Not Voting: FF, Tom, Marshy, Jungle, Rockin, Kevin

Frozen got in really late yesterday and needed to sleep before posting, so he has an extra day.

Prods going out soon? Nope. No one to prod.

~ Gheb ~ · Sep 29, 2009

Does this mean that Nick has gained some improved abilities now or something or is just random flavour?

~ Gheb ~ · Sep 29, 2009

Also: Nick's corpse? He ain't dead. Don't you mean swords' corpse?

Ronike · Sep 29, 2009

No, just a typo

#HBC | marshy · Sep 29, 2009

first off i encourage everyone to reread gheb's posts and weigh in if they agree that he's scummy. seriously EVERY time he looks like he's going to take a stance or go after someone he covers his *** with "or maybe he's just blah blah blah". he also takes every chance he gets to take potshots at inactives. it's just a very non-committal playstyle and an easy angle for a scumbag to take. i find him more suspicious than everybody else and don't see how anyone couldn't

tom was tearing apart some of his crap posts d1 and i wish he had been more active to continue doing so so we could just all just lynch him

Gheb_01 said:
I mean why should we be suspicious of (swords) when Karthik is posting the same garbage, jumps every bandwagon too but doesn't even respond to anything? At least sword does. It's just the general inactivity that makes it difficult cuz it helps scum to coast through D1 pretty much undetected. Plus few active people makes BWs even more difficult.

hm. this is what i'm talking about. gheb never goes after anyone. he just nudges and says "we" a lot. i personally think it's a soft scumtell along with saying "because i'm town" or anything to that effect. just subtly push the idea that you're on the same team. what's worse is what jungle was saying about swords had merit

]I'd rather go for a KK/swords BW hoping that Riddle will be somewhat more helpful.[/QUOTE]yet he was just saying "why should we be suspicious of swords?" in the quote above this one. followed by saying you want to wagon him. looks like silly distancing [QUOTE=]Tom said:
Edit: lol I got ninja'd with a KK bandwagon being about to start. What irony lolz.

Marshy said:
oh karthik wagon? unvote frozen vote karthik

Gheb_01 said:
time for a BW i guess lol

Vote Karthik

he just accused me of trying to start a wagon on him today without being on it so as to not incriminate myself (despite me saying i was going to elaborate but whatever) but he did the same thing earlier

Swords is @ L-2 now? I'd rather wait for him to "post more in the morning", as he said. Then I decide though I'm a little confused about people BWing him so quickly now.

good ol' fence-sitting scared to take a stance on your partner

so yeah. overall gheb's behavior towards people wanting to vote swords was RIDICULOUS. he was overlooking his scummy behavior to be all "we need activity to achieve victory!". i feel like if swords had a floundering scumbuddy it was gheb. thoughts?

~ Gheb ~ · Sep 29, 2009

Marshy said:
first off i encourage everyone to reread gheb's posts and weigh in if they agree that he's scummy. seriously EVERY time he looks like he's going to take a stance or go after someone he covers his *** with "or maybe he's just blah blah blah".

Where do I do it? Quotes or it didn't happen.

he also takes every chance he gets to take potshots at inactives. it's just a very non-committal playstyle and an easy angle for a scumbag to take.

No need to comment on that. Inactivity hurts town so I encourage people to post. Discussion is the only way for town to get results.

More FoS on marshy for discouraging it and using it as a dummy argument to blow things out of proportion.

Also you contradict yourself. D1 you were pressuring people who voted frozen because - gues what - yes, because he was inactive.

tom was tearing apart some of his crap posts d1 and i wish he had been more active to continue doing so so we could just all just lynch him

No, he didn't? lol stop inventing stuff. I was asking him once about why he unvoted Nick and that's it.

hm. this is what i'm talking about. gheb never goes after anyone. he just nudges and says "we" a lot. i personally think it's a soft scumtell along with saying "because i'm town" or anything to that effect. just subtly push the idea that you're on the same team. what's worse is what jungle was saying about swords had merit

Wtf? Never going after anyone? What a lie. I was CLEARLY going after KK 1 with Nick being my FoS target. Also subtly pushing the idea that I'm town = scum? As a townplayer am I supposed to play scummy? Doesn't make sense.

yet he was just saying "why should we be suspicious of swords?" in the quote above this one. followed by saying you want to wagon him. looks like silly distancing

Never said "why should we be suspicious of swords". This is whatI said:
why should we be suspicious of (swords) when Karthik is posting the same garbage, jumps every bandwagon too but doesn't even respond to anything?

Saying that KK is just as suspicious =/= saying that swords isn't suspicious.

but you asked for people to comment on something where nothing could be found. this just looks like you're trying to start discussion you know will lead nowhere

No? I was just trying to work with something we were talking about at this point. It was my first post after replacing Blazer and the first thing I noticed was the discussion Nick vs Tom. Tom pressured nick but voted triddle so I asked people about their thoughts. Big deal? It was the only discussion we had at this point so why not start right there?

has anyone noticed how reluctant gheb has been to hop on wagons until someone gives him the okay to do so?

Nobody noticed because it isn't the case. You better quote things in context if you want your argument to be taken serious. My vote on KK was there for a reason and stayed there for a while.

he just accused me of trying to start a wagon on him today without being on it so as to not incriminate myself (despite me saying i was going to elaborate but whatever) but he did the same thing earlier

The reason you voted me was because I was mentioned more than any other player as potential scum. To start a BW because you expect people to jump it.
Your case against me is complete crap and just as fluffy and misleading as the stuff nick is posting.

good ol' fence-sitting scared to take a stance on your partner

so yeah. overall gheb's behavior towards people wanting to vote swords was RIDICULOUS.

Need to elaborate on this. Never disagreed with anybody voting sword. Misleading and lying.

mentosman8 · Sep 29, 2009

@Marshy: I've already said my thoughts on Gheb, but I'll restate them here. I'm not feeling him as particularly scummy, but he has definitely had some weird vibes coming from him that I'm not sure where to put. If he became the lynch choice today(especially after seeing some of the posts you pointed out), I would be with it(he's got my attention enough to do so), but I'm still in the air on where he's aligned.

~ Gheb ~ · Sep 29, 2009

Eh, I really do hope that people read my two long posts directed @Tom and Marshy because they clearly explain my behaviour and shouldn't leave a questioin. I don't want them to be ignored because Nick and Marshy didn't adress ANY of its points (ironically both of them voted for me) and I'm sure that people will understand me if they read it. Ignoring it just proves my point that a case against me doesn't actually exist.

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