JOE!
Smash Hero
gonna edit the chart real quick here...
-
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TDB: SEASON 2! LEON (RE4) vs LARA CROFT
- Thread starter JOE!
- Start date
Salem
Smash Champion
You also posted it WAY back before if I remember correctly.
justaway12
Smash Master
Talking about Falco vs. M2?
Probably the moment M2 notices him, Falco is dead.
Unless he isn't psychic
@UncleSam: It was kinda hard to miss
justaway12
Smash Master
TBH I think Luigi and Marth should stay, Peach already won, King Dedede might min some matches, the thing is nova, some of those matches wouldn't have been the same with Marth or Luigi.
IMO
E.G. Vs. Ness.
I think some characters like Jiggly and Kirby, would be better off out of here, despite my love for Pink, and them.
IMO
E.G. Vs. Ness.
I think some characters like Jiggly and Kirby, would be better off out of here, despite my love for Pink, and them.
REL38
Smash Lord
So . . . Ganon's sword has "fencing" abilities that allow Ganon to get in close to fend off Bowser's claws and go in for the kill with a swift thrust?
Or no?
Or no?
Salem
Smash Champion
That sounds like it.
I thought that, but didn't wanna hear no fake bowser knock sword out hand BS.
I'm only asking because some characters are going to lose every match they're in. also it will curtail any unnecessary MUs and we can get that much closer to determining who TDB is. I wasn't suggesting anyone on purpose though.
Beren Zaiga
Smash Ace
*Cue Ganondorf's Final Battle theme from TP for dramatic effect.)
The reason he can beat the size advantage is this, Bowser's stance is usually slouching, which makes him lose a bit of height, then there is the fact Bowser appears as though he is slightly hunched over. This makes him lose a bit more height.
Then comes the fact Ganon can hold his Zwéihander-like sword by the blade, and due to the shape of the forté of the hilt, it can be used thusly as a polearm-type weapon, like a concussive-version of the Halberd lance. When Ganondorf holds that sword of his by the blade close to the tip, when you add together his head plus the overall length of his arms up to the point of his hands, the weapon's total height becomes around 19 feet-20 feet in total. As such, Ganondorf is now outfitted with a longe range, concussive weapon.
Because of this, Ganon can accelerate himself from a distance and try to aim for right between Bowser's eyes for a successful strike against Bowser's skull. If he can accelerate up to top speed, the amount of force from the 15-pound mass of the sword, plus the weight Ganondorf puts into running to accelerate, plus the overall acceleration, makes the force focused on the club-like hilt-tip capable of massive physical damage. He could do that or running then throwing the sword hilt-frist or blade first. Like a javelin; the javelin is categorized as a polearm weapon The force produce by this is extreme because of the added momentum from Ganon's aforementioned acceleration.
It would be more than enough to crack or pierce Bowser's skull, or with the blade-end any part of his body.
The sword Ganondorf uses has a double use of, as it says, crudely "stopping a calvary charge". This is also because the sword's design shows it is more effective at stabbing or thrusting due to it's long length. Its like a giant spear. So the sword is really three weapon-types in one. A slashing, thrusting, and concussive weapon in one.
Look at Bowser's Claws again. They are made of bone, not steel, they do not have the hardness nor sharpness to pierce Ganondorf's plate armor. As such, Bowser cannot so much gore him as he can make him reel from the impact.
Bowser moves slower than Ganon by longer. Bowser's legs are too short to make long strides, and the rate at which they would be able to cycle would be lower than Ganondorf's. Thus Ganondorf has the higher potential speed.
Ganondorf wins because his weapon has multiple uses, and because he can produce the needed force and velocity via acceleration over time to deliver a killing bow to Bowser.
He can (A.) Run then throw the sword like a Javelin, aiming for between the eyes, just above his chest, either arm, either leg, his snout, either eye, etc, etc, ad nauseum.
(B.) He can use the sword as a blunt pole-arm via holding the sword by the blade, the smash it against Bowser's temple, killing him, or cause great pain and concussive damage by striking the ribcage near his heart. If he uses the polearm from behind, he can also use it create concussive damage to Bowser's back and spine.
(C.) He can also charge Bowser and use the sword like a lance, charging at top human foot speed by the time he reaches Bowser, which is 25 MPH. This force plus the sharp blade of the sword can pierce Bowser's skin, his belly, his heart and lung, plus the Koopa version of the carotid artery.
I am sorry to say this but...
GGs Bowser.
The reason he can beat the size advantage is this, Bowser's stance is usually slouching, which makes him lose a bit of height, then there is the fact Bowser appears as though he is slightly hunched over. This makes him lose a bit more height.
Then comes the fact Ganon can hold his Zwéihander-like sword by the blade, and due to the shape of the forté of the hilt, it can be used thusly as a polearm-type weapon, like a concussive-version of the Halberd lance. When Ganondorf holds that sword of his by the blade close to the tip, when you add together his head plus the overall length of his arms up to the point of his hands, the weapon's total height becomes around 19 feet-20 feet in total. As such, Ganondorf is now outfitted with a longe range, concussive weapon.
Because of this, Ganon can accelerate himself from a distance and try to aim for right between Bowser's eyes for a successful strike against Bowser's skull. If he can accelerate up to top speed, the amount of force from the 15-pound mass of the sword, plus the weight Ganondorf puts into running to accelerate, plus the overall acceleration, makes the force focused on the club-like hilt-tip capable of massive physical damage. He could do that or running then throwing the sword hilt-frist or blade first. Like a javelin; the javelin is categorized as a polearm weapon The force produce by this is extreme because of the added momentum from Ganon's aforementioned acceleration.
It would be more than enough to crack or pierce Bowser's skull, or with the blade-end any part of his body.
The sword Ganondorf uses has a double use of, as it says, crudely "stopping a calvary charge". This is also because the sword's design shows it is more effective at stabbing or thrusting due to it's long length. Its like a giant spear. So the sword is really three weapon-types in one. A slashing, thrusting, and concussive weapon in one.
Look at Bowser's Claws again. They are made of bone, not steel, they do not have the hardness nor sharpness to pierce Ganondorf's plate armor. As such, Bowser cannot so much gore him as he can make him reel from the impact.
Bowser moves slower than Ganon by longer. Bowser's legs are too short to make long strides, and the rate at which they would be able to cycle would be lower than Ganondorf's. Thus Ganondorf has the higher potential speed.
Ganondorf wins because his weapon has multiple uses, and because he can produce the needed force and velocity via acceleration over time to deliver a killing bow to Bowser.
He can (A.) Run then throw the sword like a Javelin, aiming for between the eyes, just above his chest, either arm, either leg, his snout, either eye, etc, etc, ad nauseum.
(B.) He can use the sword as a blunt pole-arm via holding the sword by the blade, the smash it against Bowser's temple, killing him, or cause great pain and concussive damage by striking the ribcage near his heart. If he uses the polearm from behind, he can also use it create concussive damage to Bowser's back and spine.
(C.) He can also charge Bowser and use the sword like a lance, charging at top human foot speed by the time he reaches Bowser, which is 25 MPH. This force plus the sharp blade of the sword can pierce Bowser's skin, his belly, his heart and lung, plus the Koopa version of the carotid artery.
I am sorry to say this but...
GGs Bowser.
Salem
Smash Champion
[Ganon 150% Damage]
[Ganon Beam Sword Dash Attack KO!]
GGs Bowser.
And I already said throw the sword. >_>
BUT NOBODY LISTENS TO ME!!!!!
[Ganon Beam Sword Dash Attack KO!]
GGs Bowser.
And I already said throw the sword. >_>
BUT NOBODY LISTENS TO ME!!!!!
justaway12
Smash Master
Congrats, Beren!
You're hints were very helpful, UncleSam, I would have read it myself, but I still wouldn't have gotten it
You're hints were very helpful, UncleSam, I would have read it myself, but I still wouldn't have gotten it
adumbrodeus
Smash Legend
Still wrong...
But so ****ing close, I need to debunk portions of this to explain.
But so ****ing close, I need to debunk portions of this to explain.
adumbrodeus
Smash Legend
Still wrong...
But so ****ing close, I need to debunk portions of this to explain.
Make sure you don't actually throw.
But so ****ing close, I need to debunk portions of this to explain.
Not important.
Good, good.
Too situational, but on the right track.
Make sure you don't actually throw.
Crack the skull, definitely, piercing is possible, but that's not necessarily, a more general vulnerability.
Bowser will be able to insta-kill Ganondorf too. Ganondorf will just be able to get the strike in first.
One of the main points. +1
You're missing one thing, concentrate on concussive force and the nature of turtle evolution.
If he lands on the back of his shell he's ****ed.
With the force that Ganon can use with his blow, Bowser has no choice but to fall on the back of his shell. Any tutrle on their back is as good as dead, not to mention he has those spikes which will just dig a hole in the dirt rather than give him traction to rollo on his belly. That's the reason why, along with Beren's info, Ganon wins.
With the force that Ganon can use with his blow, Bowser has no choice but to fall on the back of his shell. Any tutrle on their back is as good as dead, not to mention he has those spikes which will just dig a hole in the dirt rather than give him traction to rollo on his belly. That's the reason why, along with Beren's info, Ganon wins.
justaway12
Smash Master
^^^^
I think we already went over that, no?
Can't Bowser just...fall back?
EDIT: Oh, lol, I didn't even see Adums post xD
If you were talking about Adumbs post, then I see...I'll read it over.
I think we already went over that, no?
Can't Bowser just...fall back?
EDIT: Oh, lol, I didn't even see Adums post xD
If you were talking about Adumbs post, then I see...I'll read it over.
well obviously.
JOE!
Smash Hero
not the best quality....but taking thier arm 9and sword) lengths, this is their reaches...
Bowser's claw may be able to out do ganon by 1 foot...
@his shell
wouldnt ganon have a bit of trouble hitting the thing in the first place? why not go for his belly?
and turtles are built to withstand constant force, like that of a big pair of jaws.
however, how would one his size stand upto a sword as big as ganons? (look at the pic)
JOE your math is wrong, Ganondorf's sword is easily 6+ft
that's 10 ft.
and even if Bowser if is 13 ft the his arm length is not 9ft. which he isn't, he's 9'3"
all wrong, all wrong...
adumbrodeus
Smash Legend
See, Joe is still confused, that's why I said it's not quite there yet.
And no, falling on the back isn't the issue.
But to hit, bowser has a lot more committment because his arms arm very large compared to his body size, and Ganondorf has mobility on his side by a wide margin.
You guys are still missing something.
And no, falling on the back isn't the issue.
But to hit, bowser has a lot more committment because his arms arm very large compared to his body size, and Ganondorf has mobility on his side by a wide margin.
You guys are still missing something.
JOE!
Smash Hero
what, are my measurements wrong then?"little one their are mistakes in your battle strategy"
JOE your math is wrong, Ganondorf's sword is easily 6+ft
that's 10 ft.
and even if Bowser if is 13 ft the his arm length is not 9ft. which he isn't, he's 9'3"
all wrong, all wrong...
need to look at my rulers again in photoshop...
(also, what u talking about? bowsers arms are temendous...)
justaway12
Smash Master
Wait, Adumb, will this effect only Ganon vs. Bowser?
Because if it's the size of Ganons sword, then I don't see why you couldn't have said at the Bowser v. Ganon? (I know you're doing it know, but you know what I mean, right?.
When I asked you for the answer you said that I can ask you next time Bowser goes against someone right? So wouldn't this also affect Bowser?
EDIT: Forget it, I read his VM wrong -_-
Because if it's the size of Ganons sword, then I don't see why you couldn't have said at the Bowser v. Ganon? (I know you're doing it know, but you know what I mean, right?.
When I asked you for the answer you said that I can ask you next time Bowser goes against someone right? So wouldn't this also affect Bowser?
EDIT: Forget it, I read his VM wrong -_-
adumbrodeus
Smash Legend
It might come up in later Bowser match-ups, not to this degree though, Ganondorf is particularly adept at using this... Ganondorf match-ups however...
JOE!
Smash Hero
oops, yeah, Ganon's reach is a bit over 9 feet
bowser's is only a smidge longer due to his claws
also, what would happen if bowser smacks teh sword? wouldnt taht impact mess up ganon's hand/arm?
bowser's is only a smidge longer due to his claws
also, what would happen if bowser smacks teh sword? wouldnt taht impact mess up ganon's hand/arm?
justaway12
Smash Master
I doubt it would effect the match-up but, JOE!, I keep asking, can Bowser have his ball & Chain? Atleast for future purposes.
Actually, these are one of those few match-ups I don't care about if Bowser wins, well, not that much >.>
I'll still debate for him, but not as much as other MUs anyway, I always kinda liked Ganon, he and Tingle are the only ones in LoZ I actually like.
Actually, these are one of those few match-ups I don't care about if Bowser wins, well, not that much >.>
I'll still debate for him, but not as much as other MUs anyway, I always kinda liked Ganon, he and Tingle are the only ones in LoZ I actually like.
Salem
Smash Champion
JOE!
Smash Hero
...paper mario?
where did that come into play?
where did that come into play?
justaway12
Smash Master
I think it because Bowser had an attack like that, which clawed Mario.
But that's not important.
Can we get a new MU, JOE!?
I'm normally not one to end an MU quick, but it doesn't seem Falcos got a lot going for him, unless Mewtwo doesn't have mind power, then Falco wins.
If/After Adumb/Uncle post their post?
But that's not important.
Can we get a new MU, JOE!?
I'm normally not one to end an MU quick, but it doesn't seem Falcos got a lot going for him, unless Mewtwo doesn't have mind power, then Falco wins.
If/After Adumb/Uncle post their post?
Salem
Smash Champion
In paper mario,bowser stole mario's weapons by smacking him.
He didn't use them though, that would have been epic.
also... I don't think we actually talked about anything paper mario here till now. >_>
still wrong, synopsis coming soon.
JOE!
Smash Hero
Salem, just becaus eit is in paper mario doesnt mean he cannot do it...its as simple as smasking the sword hard enough for ganon to lsoe grip.
justaway, the issue here is that in RL: Falco wins, in canon: Mewtwo wins.
I think we should just go with RL....
EDIT:
sam, how is it worng? i took the sword + his arm length
justaway, the issue here is that in RL: Falco wins, in canon: Mewtwo wins.
I think we should just go with RL....
EDIT:
sam, how is it worng? i took the sword + his arm length
adumbrodeus
Smash Legend
Still waiting for people to put the final pieces in place.
Alright here it is!
Ganondorf vs. Bowser
First, lets take a look at their characteristics and apply them to RL.
Bowser: bowser looks like and was meant to be, a turtle. A turtles bone structure is very unique compared to mammals bone structures. their ribs consist of the belly shell and their spine is directly connected to the back shell. coupled with leather (sea turtle) or keratin (land turtle) plating the shell is not only it's home but it's only self-defense.
Now, like I have mentioned before complete spinal damage could completely paralyze a person and stop all motor functions, inevitably leaving them a vegetable. For a turtle this is extremely dangerous, as not only does it take much effort to move, spinal damage would easily kill him. This makes the Shell a target.
Now for a difference, bowser has no undershell, all this leaves is his skin, prone to flesh-wounds, and pretty much direct access to vital organs.
Ganondorf: Ganondorf is the only male Gerudo of his tribe and holder of the Triforce of power. The triforce of power is pretty much inert as it powers up magic, Ganondorf has sheer strength. Ganondorf has a massive build Wields the Twilight blade (now confirmed to be a Zweihander) and wears Plated Armor.
Looking at TP Ganondorf, his Armor goes as follows:
Undershirt/light clothes
Chainmail (entire body)
Lacquered Leather (entire body)
Plated armor (Upper body, some parts of lower body)
The thing about Plated armor is, it is designed to be evenly distributed around the body relieving weight. couple that With Ganondorf's Amazing build and you won't see any limitations in movement.
Now lets look at each characters backround:
Bowser: King of the Koopas (a turtle-like race) who rules over the Koopa kingdon wanting to take over the mushroom kingdom.
not much to say...
Ganondorf: One of the few males of the Gerudo tribe, the Gerudo tribe is a tribe of thieves, that jump high, hit hard, and appear from seemingly nowhere.
Now to combat:
Bowser may have a slight hight advantage, but that means nothing if he has multiple, easily exploitable weaknesses.
Bowser can hit hard and can probably kill, but Ganondorf's weapon is the Zweihander, this type of greatsword it built for bludgeoning. Upon plated armors creation slicing became inert. Greatswords and new Longsword styles were created to counter this. This is where Bowser comes in, Imagine his body as one big piece of Plated armor, Ganondorf is fast enough, stealthy enough, and powerful enough to kill Bowser by bludgeoning a vital area for the kill before Bowser can react. From behind, Sword beats out shell to get the spine, from the front, his chest is open for strikes at vital organs. from above, bowsers head is only one strike away. Any approach, Ganondorf has an easy kill.
Bowser can get kills, but our master swordsman is just too smart and too properly equipped to lose this fight.
Sample fight: Both Ganondorf and Bowser start off out of each others reach. Bowser can't use his flame as it will inevitably kill him from the inside so both are forced to approach straight from the beginning.
Once they Are in reach of each other they both have the potential to score an auto-kill, bowser can go for the head, or make work of his torso by going through Ganondorf's armor. Ganondorf can score auto kills by by using the deadly human combination of weapons and intelligence. Any Solid force against Bowsers shell will kill bowser, direct chest shots will kill bowser, and headshots will kill bowser.
Now comes the stealth. His stealth, speed, and intelligence will get bowser many more kills on bowser instead of the other way around.
/bowser's reign of terror.
"See? Never mess with the wise, you young whippersnappers should learn your place"
Ganondorf vs. Bowser
First, lets take a look at their characteristics and apply them to RL.
Bowser: bowser looks like and was meant to be, a turtle. A turtles bone structure is very unique compared to mammals bone structures. their ribs consist of the belly shell and their spine is directly connected to the back shell. coupled with leather (sea turtle) or keratin (land turtle) plating the shell is not only it's home but it's only self-defense.
Now, like I have mentioned before complete spinal damage could completely paralyze a person and stop all motor functions, inevitably leaving them a vegetable. For a turtle this is extremely dangerous, as not only does it take much effort to move, spinal damage would easily kill him. This makes the Shell a target.
Now for a difference, bowser has no undershell, all this leaves is his skin, prone to flesh-wounds, and pretty much direct access to vital organs.
Ganondorf: Ganondorf is the only male Gerudo of his tribe and holder of the Triforce of power. The triforce of power is pretty much inert as it powers up magic, Ganondorf has sheer strength. Ganondorf has a massive build Wields the Twilight blade (now confirmed to be a Zweihander) and wears Plated Armor.
Looking at TP Ganondorf, his Armor goes as follows:
Undershirt/light clothes
Chainmail (entire body)
Lacquered Leather (entire body)
Plated armor (Upper body, some parts of lower body)
The thing about Plated armor is, it is designed to be evenly distributed around the body relieving weight. couple that With Ganondorf's Amazing build and you won't see any limitations in movement.
Now lets look at each characters backround:
Bowser: King of the Koopas (a turtle-like race) who rules over the Koopa kingdon wanting to take over the mushroom kingdom.
not much to say...
Ganondorf: One of the few males of the Gerudo tribe, the Gerudo tribe is a tribe of thieves, that jump high, hit hard, and appear from seemingly nowhere.
Now to combat:
Bowser may have a slight hight advantage, but that means nothing if he has multiple, easily exploitable weaknesses.
Bowser can hit hard and can probably kill, but Ganondorf's weapon is the Zweihander, this type of greatsword it built for bludgeoning. Upon plated armors creation slicing became inert. Greatswords and new Longsword styles were created to counter this. This is where Bowser comes in, Imagine his body as one big piece of Plated armor, Ganondorf is fast enough, stealthy enough, and powerful enough to kill Bowser by bludgeoning a vital area for the kill before Bowser can react. From behind, Sword beats out shell to get the spine, from the front, his chest is open for strikes at vital organs. from above, bowsers head is only one strike away. Any approach, Ganondorf has an easy kill.
Bowser can get kills, but our master swordsman is just too smart and too properly equipped to lose this fight.
Sample fight: Both Ganondorf and Bowser start off out of each others reach. Bowser can't use his flame as it will inevitably kill him from the inside so both are forced to approach straight from the beginning.
Once they Are in reach of each other they both have the potential to score an auto-kill, bowser can go for the head, or make work of his torso by going through Ganondorf's armor. Ganondorf can score auto kills by by using the deadly human combination of weapons and intelligence. Any Solid force against Bowsers shell will kill bowser, direct chest shots will kill bowser, and headshots will kill bowser.
Now comes the stealth. His stealth, speed, and intelligence will get bowser many more kills on bowser instead of the other way around.
The man speaks the truth.Adumbrodeus said:
/bowser's reign of terror.
justaway12
Smash Master
Then Falco wins, I thought you did canon because you mantioned it before.
And Ganon has this, but can Bowser have a ball and chain for future match-ups
*Tired of repeating T_T*
Oh, lol, ninja'd by synopsis
@UncleSam: I haven't finished yet, but isn't the triforce of power....magic >_>
Ok, Ganon can hit hard, because of Adumbs post in Peach vs. Zelda, swords are heavy, but why do people keep saying Geruda are strong >_____>
And Ganon has this, but can Bowser have a ball and chain for future match-ups
*Tired of repeating T_T*
Oh, lol, ninja'd by synopsis
@UncleSam: I haven't finished yet, but isn't the triforce of power....magic >_>
Ok, Ganon can hit hard, because of Adumbs post in Peach vs. Zelda, swords are heavy, but why do people keep saying Geruda are strong >_____>
Salem
Smash Champion
The sheath.
Ganon has one. >_>
Can't he also use that to help himself in some way?
Edit:
...Sam...
WTF?
I said it's inert, it has nothing to do with it.
READ IT!