• Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!

    You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!

The Official Ike Video Critique Thread

Palpi

Smash Hero
Joined
Jun 26, 2008
Messages
5,714
Location
Yardley, Pennsylvania
You can walk-off dair with smash stick.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mFkqGsLXsqU

Sorry for the crappy quality. Wasn't my recording, and I didn't even know it was being recorded. But since it showed up on youtube, and this is my first recorded match in a long time, a critique would be appreciated.


I am trying myself to learn how to distinguish all of my opponents options when they are doing something or when I am doing something. When that is covered it makes reading easier.

You actually did this pretty well, considering the link was pretty good.

If he has a bomb and he short hops, he will either air-dodge, and zair, throw the bomb or throw his boomerang. This sort of thing link / toonlinks do telegraph their style, and it can be easily punished. More easily on link since he has far less options than toonlink.

If he short hops w/o a bomb he will either f-air nair nair or boomerang..? All of this can be easily power shielded/shielded and punished. You did a good job turning your back to him when zoning so you could OoS B-air.

Also, i saw atleast once or twice (could be more) spots where you did a retreating fair or stand-still fair hoping for your opponent to run into it, when he had a bomb. Link will never approach especially when you are zoning well.

I know from the tiny bit of toon-link experience I have against and usuing tink, that when I have a bomb i will air-dodge, zair, through bomb, if you shield, i will catch it with nair and repeat the process. I saw your opponent do that a couple times, so applying pressure (even shield pressure) with fair (if well spaced) is a very good way to stop his short-mid range assault when he has a bomb.

You looked really good in this match-up, as did the link. The first match was really fun, keep it up.
 

san.

1/Sympathy = Divide By Zero
Moderator
Joined
Oct 26, 2008
Messages
5,651
Location
Rochester, NY
NNID
Sansoldier
3DS FC
4957-2846-2924
Might as well bump this old thread, lol.
Unfortunately, all my other matches vs him weren't able to be uploaded (non-hacked wii for the second set, someone's SD card got corrupted for all the other matches).

I wanted to get some of the matches where I lost (got timed out on green greens lol) but here's something I guess. I can see mistakes a lot easier through other people's eyes than my own.

VS MK at brinstar
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wHo7Ixro6dA&feature=related


VS MK at battlefield
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3rDY0b_0jY&feature=related
 

Kimchi

Smash Ace
Joined
Sep 28, 2008
Messages
895
Location
Fort Lee, NJ / Cornell University - Ithaca, NY
I'll comment on the Battlefield match, because the Brinstar match was mainly filled with you punishing Pika's careless shuttle loops lol.
What I noticed a lot was that you tend to face forward when MK's offstage. I recommend facing backwards when MK's offstage and gets to ledge, because this allows you to get a Bair or Counter in quickly. MK doesn't have too many options on the ledge if you keep your distance. As you saw from 4:52-5:05, you kept the pressure on Pikapika and eventually his only option was to use ledgehop Mach Tornado. Watch out for that, a lot of MKs tend to use that if they don't see any other option. Bair's really useful in this matchup, especially your use of it at 1:22 and 2:45. That was nice. Against MK, you definitely want to save your double jumps and I know you already know that. However, make sure that if you do use short hops that they either help you get closer to MK and at a safe distance or they help you retreat far enough so that MK can't approach you without getting Naired/Baired/Faired in the face. Notice how at 0:00-0:25 you sorta "got too into it" and started jabbing after using Nairs. He got free damage off of you from that. Fullhop aerial dodge helped you out a bit here too. Overall though, you had a really solid game. Spaced Nairs and your Bair kills were really what helped you win this match. Great job.
 

san.

1/Sympathy = Divide By Zero
Moderator
Joined
Oct 26, 2008
Messages
5,651
Location
Rochester, NY
NNID
Sansoldier
3DS FC
4957-2846-2924
That's why I'm really sad none of the other vids were able to be saved. Some matches were incredibly good. These were just ok I think. Hope you can bear with me with the walls of text. PikaPika's MK just sucks at brinstar (vs Ike anyways) so these vids weren't the best I could've shown.

What I noticed a lot was that you tend to face forward when MK's offstage. I recommend facing backwards when MK's offstage and gets to ledge, because this allows you to get a Bair or Counter in quickly. MK doesn't have too many options on the ledge if you keep your distance. As you saw from 4:52-5:05, you kept the pressure on Pikapika and eventually his only option was to use ledgehop Mach Tornado. Watch out for that, a lot of MKs tend to use that if they don't see any other option.
I see. I think I'm afraid to use bair in that situation, because after I use it, I'm helpless until I touch the ground, and MK's getups are too quick for me, so I have to retreat the bair, which idk will help or not. Next time I play, I will try doing this in order to understand the timing & stuff. I was facing forward because i like to fair people at the edge x_x which is kind of dumb vs MK lol.

Bair's really useful in this matchup, especially your use of it at 1:22 and 2:45. That was nice. Against MK, you definitely want to save your double jumps and I know you already know that. However, make sure that if you do use short hops that they either help you get closer to MK and at a safe distance or they help you retreat far enough so that MK can't approach you without getting Naired/Baired/Faired in the face.
It's thanks to these boards that I got around worrying about shuttle loop. I have a problem when MK is gliding and I'm facing forward, though. I want to fair it, but I forget how MK's glide attack outranges fair. I think I'm risky with my double jumps sometimes, cause I try to get as close as possible most of the time. Sometimes I don't think, especially with pressure.

Notice how at 0:00-0:25 you sorta "got too into it" and started jabbing after using Nairs. He got free damage off of you from that.
After looking at it again, I see what you mean! I tried to make it so if he tried to dash attack or dash grab, I would jab him, and any other move he wouldn't get to me in time. I think, some of the times, I assumed I would hit him and would do a second jab or not react in time to some of his moves. But to be honest, I didn't realize I was just doing nair--> jab so many times in a row.
 

metroid1117

Smash Master
Joined
Sep 1, 2005
Messages
3,786
Location
Chester, IL
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TGWBOTS8JIc

This was maybe 4-5 months ago. This match is just funny.

If I posted this in the wrong thread I apologize. <_>

Crap quality btw.
No offense or anything, but there really isn't too much to critique in that match; there was some stuff in the first minute or so, but then after that it sort of fell apart with the QD stagespike. Also, the match was over Wi-fi; it's not that big of a deal if you can't play any matches otherwise, but it's preferable to get matches up that are from offline play. Post a different and more complete video so that you'll get more useful feedback :).

Might as well bump this old thread, lol.
Unfortunately, all my other matches vs him weren't able to be uploaded (non-hacked wii for the second set, someone's SD card got corrupted for all the other matches).

I wanted to get some of the matches where I lost (got timed out on green greens lol) but here's something I guess. I can see mistakes a lot easier through other people's eyes than my own.

VS MK at brinstar
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wHo7Ixro6dA&feature=related


VS MK at battlefield
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3rDY0b_0jY&feature=related
Brinstar
0:20 - It's not too big of a deal, but I would recommend being more careful about using aerials on the little orb things that bring the platforms together; it might seem like a good idea because hitlag causes you to be stuck in your attack animation, but in the case of an aerial like NAir, the prolonged hitbox doesn't protect you at all. Maybe using UTilt at that location is safer?
0:30 - Powershield -> turnaround BAir was incredibly sexy.
0:43 - Aether is too easy to see coming and is easily punished if it misses, unlike Shuttle Loop; you can't really abuse it like other up+Bs, so going for the edge would've been a better move.
2:06 - Shuttle Loop is a serious pain on this stage (and in this match-up in general); I haven't actually tried this out before offline, but you may want to consider using Aether to counter it, whether it be out-of-shield (in addition to turnaound BAir) or just whenever he's gliding above you and you think he's going to drop down with a glide attack.

Wow... I didn't say much at all. As a general overview, you got hit a lot by up+Bs from under the stage and Tornado when he used it as a recovery method. To edgeguard against the up+B from that angle, I would try waiting him out from the upper platform, then drop down with an airdodge when he gets close to the ground. If he up+Bs or attacks, then the airdodge will protect you and you'll (hopefully) be able to counterattack. If he airdodged, then hopefully you'll be able to attack him first when he lands.

As for the Tornado, retreating USmash has worked well for me both online and offline against spammers; you may want to try that out and see if it works for you. Overall though, you played very solidly; I couldn't find anything big to pick on. Great job with the set. Out of curiosity, who counterpicked that stage?
 

san.

1/Sympathy = Divide By Zero
Moderator
Joined
Oct 26, 2008
Messages
5,651
Location
Rochester, NY
NNID
Sansoldier
3DS FC
4957-2846-2924
I'm always happy when I see you post in this topic meroid cause you always have things cool to say, lol.

I counterpicked brinstar, because I knew he didn't have much experience there. He counterpicked BF. Weird, huh? I'm really just experimenting with using it, cause other cps his pika does pretty well.
I counterpicked brinstar again against him in grand finals and I beat him without much trouble. On brinstar, I was wary of being shuttle looped at like all times, lol.

Aether does this weird thing to the globs in the middle, so it was kinda for fun.. XD. + i wanted to slide on the hill. I used nair a lot because you get an awesome cool slide, too.

Aether vs shuttle loop? Maybe, if I know i wont get punished if i miss lol
 

Hobs

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Dec 22, 2008
Messages
390
Location
Mississauga, Canada (Hobs crk)
Hey guys. I'm a buddy of Nysyarc's, who I think you know. I picked up Ike because of him. I've got some wifi vids (which have been screwing up my jab cancels lately), and nothing else :p. Here's on of the more interesting ones:
SHAZAM!

Please comment/critique.:bee:
 

theeboredone

Smash Legend
Joined
Mar 18, 2008
Messages
12,399
Location
Houston, TX
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VTe6J3RbA9U

One of my vids, it was long ago but i still fight a bit like that, so i will appreciate if someone could tell me what i'm doing wrong.
You are being way too fancy. Some things were completely unnecessary. Such as when you D-aired the guy at :38.

Also wtf with aether in beginning? Don't try that **** again.

That Marth sucks.

Lol at 1:32 = Wifi moment.

I recommend finding a video in which you get owned or lose. Not something in which you were dominant.
 

Nysyarc

Last King of Hollywood
Joined
Apr 21, 2009
Messages
3,389
Location
Dartmouth, Nova Scotia
NNID
Nysyarc
3DS FC
1075-0983-2504
Time for the critique of great justice (don't ask).

0:13 - Try not to pull out the Fsmash so early. Especially since you haven't had time to figure out what he likes to do off the ledge. Basically a free hit for him.
0:23 - There's always a better option than QD. Notice how easily he punished you for that.
0:26 - Dair into the ground isn't a good option, if he had shielded that you would have eaten another Usmash or worse. I would have spaced an Nair or Fair coming down instead.
0:31 - I know there's lag but make sure you can't see Ike crouch between Jab cancels.
0:38 - Don't jump straight ahead and Fair, at least not full-speed (go slow enough that you can reverse direction mid-jump and come back). If you had done a retreating Fair there using your c-stick he would have eaten it, but you ate the Nair instead.
0:44 - Try to avoid air-dodging after being hit at low percents, especially if you're hit upwards, it usually serves no purpose and can be easily read and punished.
0:56 - A walk-off Fair right there would have sealed the deal, Dair isn't always your best option; watch for all off-stage opportunities.
1:00 - Might have been a mistake in lag but that was obviously a pretty useless roll. Try not to roll with Ike... like at all.
1:08 - Again with the Fsmash at the edge, the only time that works is if your opponent likes to roll or jump and air-dodge from the ledge. You know Hizu likes to attack, so bait the attack by moving close and then retreat an Fair.
1:11 - Don't be so aggressive returning to the stage, that Fair was poorly spaced and without lag you probably would have eaten his Fsmash.
1:37 - If that Dair was a result of you noticing that he likes to jump right away off-stage (which he does in this vid) then congrats. If it was a fluke... well it's still a KO.
1:47 - Always AC your Bairs, use the control stick to jump and the c-stick to Bair, that way even if you miss you can guide Ike back the way you came to avoid punishment... and obviously there's no landing lag.
1:50 - If a trick like that works once against a good player, don't expect it to work again. You should have waited out that Aether.
2:02 - Ewww, noob combo. Seriously, no more Dthrow -> Aether. I always DI another Ike's Dthrow back and down so I end up behind them if they Aether... which some do. Obviously I then proceed to Fsmash them. If Hizu had DId your Dthrow properly that wouldn't have turned out as well for you.
2:05 - Not sure what the Ftilt was about, but it's not a good option at low percents even if you have a good feeling about it. Would have been better to do a retreating Nair or Fair.
2:09 - No Quickdraw. Ever.
2:15 - That was just silly. If you're lucky enough to land one Uair, don't expect the next to hit. Instead, do an empty jump to bait some kind of retaliation and then Utilt or Usmash them. If you had just empty jumped, he would have landed in his Dair animation and you could have Fsmashed him for the KO... instead he hit you and you only got an Fair out of it.
2:32 - That was a falling Uair moment. When you're coming down and your opponent is coming up, try fast-falling and using an Uair, actually very effective.
2:36 - Right there you should have just jabbed once and finished it with an Utilt. You definitely need to use Utilt more as a KO move.

All in all, not bad. I'll attribute most of the timing issues to it being WiFi. Just try to be a little less flashy and a little more efficient. Retreat and carefully space your Nairs and Fairs. Keep Utilt fresh and use it to KO. Don't use Quickdraw. Don't use Aether (except to recover... and in certain situations on certain stages). Don't use Quickdraw. Don't use Dair into the ground and try not to use it off-stage unless it is definitely the best option... and am I forgetting something? Oh right! Don't use Quickdraw.


Bored summed it up in his style that lacks sympathy and reeks of awesomeness. I'll just add that you tried Jab -> Bair way too many times. It's not guaranteed and should be used sparingly if at all. If you wanna get fancy with jab stuff for KOs try Jab -> Utilt instead, it's easier to pull off and more likely to connect. On WiFi everything is screwy though.

:034:
 

Eulss4

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jun 4, 2009
Messages
9
Location
NY
^^ thanx guys i really needed a bit of critics over my playing style, because my brother keeps saying to stop doing unnecessary moves, but now that Marth player which is my brother is a lot stronger he even ***** my Ike sometimes.
 

-RedX-

Smash Lord
Joined
Sep 9, 2009
Messages
1,976
Location
Bronx, NY
Thanks to a friend, finally got some vids up from my tourney last week.
Just a few friendlies, didn't get to save any tourney matches ;[

There's no sound due to a recording issue so try to live without it >.>

Red-X (Ike) vs PatG (Lucario)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uz2hbpHunzk

Red-X (Ike) vs PatG (Zero Suit Samus)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oJobVNMJHzk

Red-X (Ike) vs Bebo (Marth)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YNZG35B5FjQ

So yea, help me plz, I'd like to get rid of habits/improve on whatever I need help on. Thanks in advance.
 

Nysyarc

Last King of Hollywood
Joined
Apr 21, 2009
Messages
3,389
Location
Dartmouth, Nova Scotia
NNID
Nysyarc
3DS FC
1075-0983-2504
Critiquing Ike vs Lucario. Really good match, here's my breakdown.

0:16 - At this point in the match, unless you're absolutely sure he's just going to hold a shield on, it's best to jab first instead of a direct grab attempt. If you had pivoted and held down the attack button, his spot-dodge would have been punished by your full jab combo as soon as it ended (or you could have cancelled into something, whatever).
0:23 - If that was what I think it was, good work cashing in on that little mind game at the end of the match :laugh:
0:32 - Careful when you use those pivot grabs, especially on characters that can attack quickly out of a spot-dodge. Again I think just shield-canceling your dash and jabbing would have worked better here.
0:39 - Nice spacing there considering the circumstances but it could have been even better, make sure to use your c-stick for an Fair when you want to retreat it.
0:44 - Careful with that DA; I only use it to punish a backwards roll if I see it coming or as a follow-up to Bthrow. It's not a safe approach IMO.
1:02 - I think you got a little too excited here; make sure you're always paying attention to your spacing, and be careful using an Nair coming down backwards, it's often best not to fast-fall those.
1:44 - Keep in mind when fighting Lucario that he has a lot of long-lasting hitboxes, particularly his smash-attacks, spot-dodging too much will get you punished.
1:53 - Aether onto the stage is usually a bad idea. The only time it really works is if you don't go too high above the stage during the Aether, allow yourself to drop down more before using it.
2:13 - I assume that Dtilt was a mistake, it's obviously not a good option there.
2:16 - At such a low percent, jab -> grab isn't really very useful. You can rack more damage just by finishing off the jab combo, especially since this Lucario seems to be DIing your initial jab away a lot.
2:24 - Again I think jabs would have worked much better to punish that spot-dodge here.
3:40 - Way too many jab -> grab attempts, the Lucario was just DIing away from you and escaping every time. If you notice that happening, just finish all three hits.
3:57 - Remember that Fthrow -> DA is never guaranteed, after an Fthrow it would be better to wait it out and see what they like to do. In this case an Fair after his air-dodge would have worked best.
4:26 - That's what I was saying earlier, good job setting that up early and getting a KO out of it.

All in all, very good playing. You already know what moves to use and what moves not to use, and your reading and punishing is pretty solid as well. Just try to go a little easier on the grabs, it's almost always more beneficial, especially at low percents, to jab instead of grab.


Critiquing Ike vs Peach. Not bad, I'll run through it.

0:11 - Make sure you're not fast-falling your Bairs or using them too late after a short-hop. If you use the c-stick to Bair and the control stick to jump you can auto-cancel it.
0:20 - Don't throw out jabs randomly, and if the first jab doesn't connect, end the combo and throw up a shield.
0:25 - Nair is a safer approach than Fair, never use an Fair straight at your opponent, always retreat a bit and fast-fall it. Nair would have worked better here though.
0:33 - Using Eruption in the middle of the stage like that with your opponent so far away is just going to get you punished. Save it for edge-guards against certain characters (you shouldn't be edge-guarding Peach with it anyways).
0:37 - I say this to just about everyone. Don't Dair into the ground. Dair has the most landing lag of any of Ike's aerials. If you're in the air, move away from your opponent and come down with an air-dodge, an Nair, or a well-spaced Fair.
0:39 - Again with the random jabs, and make sure if you miss, don't complete all three hits of the combo, end it after jab 1.
0:40 - Notice the hard landing here, never fast-fall your Bairs or move straight towards your opponent after one. Jump with the control stick and at the exact same moment, use the c-stick to Bair so you can control your spacing and auto-cancel it (no landing lag).
0:45 - Don't throw out a Counter unless you're 100% sure. It's not a risk worth taking on a hunch.
0:52 - That double-jump was a bad idea, always save your second jump whenever possible as Ike so you can use it off-stage. Also, DI attacks up as often as you can, if an attack puts you down in the bottom corner of the screen, Ike can't recover.
1:11 - Dtilt spike won't work if the opponent sweet-spots the ledge, which Peach does. It is a very situational edge-guard move and should only be used if you've set up your opponent for it to work.
1:20 - You should have learned that lesson after the first time it didn't work. Dtilt is not a reliable edge-guard move. Fair, Nair, jabs... almost anything is better.
1:21 - Dair into the ground is always bad, but especially like that. Just prat-fall with an air-dodge or if you have your c-stick set to 'Attack', you can tilt it at a diagonal to use an Nair after a pratfall.
1:23 - Save your Fsmash for early KOs on reads, and use moves like Utilt, Bair, Ftilt or Uair to KO an opponent at such high %. An Usmash would have been a better move to use there though, because it would have hit Peach after the roll and been a KO.
1:56 - Remember, space your Fairs, retreat a bit after using it instead of moving straight at your opponent.
2:08 - Don't act on impulses so much, if you had read the air-dodge there (which it was pretty obvious the Peach intended to air-dodge), you could have charged the Fsmash a little longer and got a very early KO.
2:14 - That was very unnecessary and considering you had less % on you at the time, could have cost you the match in a tourney. You have to be patient with edge-guards.

Your last stock was pretty solid, a few bad choices here and there but nothing I haven't already brought up. Overall your Ike is better than most. Try to keep the use of your special moves on-stage to a minimum, especially Eruption and Counter. You didn't use any on-stage Quickdraws which is good. Remember to not jab carelessly, even jabs can be punished if used incorrectly.


:034:
 

-RedX-

Smash Lord
Joined
Sep 9, 2009
Messages
1,976
Location
Bronx, NY
Wow, that's a lot of good stuff Nysyarc, from what you're telling me, I should:
-Finish the regular jab combo instead of trying to do some other crap
-Improve on spacing bit more(working on this >.>)
-Fix spotdodging habit that somehow was forced on me lol
-Learn how to buffer DAs/boost pivot grabs at right times instead of an accidental Dtilt....

Thanks a bunch =O
I don't see why your name isn't listed as a senior critic lol
 

san.

1/Sympathy = Divide By Zero
Moderator
Joined
Oct 26, 2008
Messages
5,651
Location
Rochester, NY
NNID
Sansoldier
3DS FC
4957-2846-2924
Wow, that's a lot of good stuff Nysyarc, from what you're telling me, I should:
-Finish the regular jab combo instead of trying to do some other crap
-Improve on spacing bit more(working on this >.>)
-Fix spotdodging habit that somehow was forced on me lol
-Learn how to buffer DAs/boost pivot grabs at right times instead of an accidental Dtilt....

Thanks a bunch =O
I don't see why your name isn't listed as a senior critic lol
Nysyarc basically pointed out a lot of things I was noticing. I suggest not running past someone to pivot grab them. It's not like you're that desperate for a grab since Ike can't really do much other than dash attack out of it o_O

Pivot grabbing by running past them when they're in the air however, is good, depending on which way they're facing (if they have good fairs or bairs)

About finishing the jab combo, you don't always have to do it, but you should be wary of the nice percent it gives you.

Just get rid of some of the unnecessary movements such as the running past someone grab, and making sure you're aware when you're in danger, or else you'll get caught up in yourself and fall for something you probably wouldn't normally.
 

Palpi

Smash Hero
Joined
Jun 26, 2008
Messages
5,714
Location
Yardley, Pennsylvania
kimchi, i wont be critiquing anymore replace me with nysyarc.


nysyarc, did you make canon rock for guitar hero..that name is listed as the composer. is it a common name or something?
 

san.

1/Sympathy = Divide By Zero
Moderator
Joined
Oct 26, 2008
Messages
5,651
Location
Rochester, NY
NNID
Sansoldier
3DS FC
4957-2846-2924
I would try to help critique, but I can't compare to those who critique second by second in each vid. Just can't.
 

Nysyarc

Last King of Hollywood
Joined
Apr 21, 2009
Messages
3,389
Location
Dartmouth, Nova Scotia
NNID
Nysyarc
3DS FC
1075-0983-2504
nysyarc, did you make canon rock for guitar hero..that name is listed as the composer. is it a common name or something?
Lol, you know I had a guy at a local smash tournament ask me that as well, and yes it was me. In fact all of my GHTunes songs are on my YouTube channel:

http://www.youtube.com/user/Nysyarc

I should be the only Nysyarc, it's my first name backwards, and I don't think there are many Craysyns in the world, let alone ones who reverse their name for their alias
:laugh:

:034:
 

Power09

Smash Rookie
Joined
Feb 27, 2009
Messages
8
Location
Houston, Tx
Thanks Nysyarc for the helpful tips. So as far as I can tell I need to
~ Work on my bair spacing
~Fair retreating a little more. I do retreat with fairs pretty well, but I may not have shown it in that match.
~Use jabs more effectively
~BE PATIENT

Thanks again for the great tips!
 

Nysyarc

Last King of Hollywood
Joined
Apr 21, 2009
Messages
3,389
Location
Dartmouth, Nova Scotia
NNID
Nysyarc
3DS FC
1075-0983-2504
Sweet, I rarely get to critique a match played on my favorite stage. Here it goes.

0:17 - Using an Fair while moving straight forwards is almost always a bad idea and won't work most of the time. Instead, try jumping backwards with the control stick and using the c-stick to Fair. Although against CF an Nair is almost always better than even a retreating Fair, because of his running speed.
0:21 - Against a fast character like CF you have to always retreat your aerials. Even if you space an Nair fairly well, CF is fast enough to dash grab you if you don't drop back a bit.
0:23 - Obviously jabs would have been better there instead of the Bair, always watch for rolls and punish them.
0:24 - Ike's get-up attack is pretty bad, it has next to no shield knockback and so many characters can just shield it and grab him. Try to tech the ground as often as you can, and when you miss the tech, get up fast.
0:30 - Too many spot-dodges for no reason, if you had jabbed there after you baited him with the Nair, it would have gotten him.
0:33 - After an Nair hit like that at low %s, it's often better and less risky to follow it up by pivoting and using jabs as opposed to a Bair, especially on heavier characters.
0:36 - Again, it worked here but you should be retreating that Nair just in case. Short hop backwards first and then input the Nair.
0:39 - There's that lunging Fair again, obviously it hasn't worked for you so far. Remember to retreat your Fairs, especially against faster characters.
0:44 - Practice buffering your jab cancels, make sure you can't see Ike crouch at all between jabs.
0:47 - When you're sent up in the air like that, don't just air-dodge straight into your opponent, a good player will pick up on that very quickly and punish you for it. Maneuver yourself down in as roundabout a way as possible.
0:55 - That Dair definitely wasn't your best option there, remember that Dair has the most landing lags of Ike's aerials, so don't use it over the stage.
1:03 - Jab to grab will only work if your opponent DIs towards you or doesn't DI at all. Always make note of where your opponent likes to DI your jabs early in a match so you know whether or not to use certain techniques.
1:10 - Again with the Fair, CF just has too many ways to punish it. An Nair would have worked much better here.
1:14 - Right about there is where you should have done the walk-off Dair or dropped down and done a Dtilt; that was a pretty dumb move of him to just hang on the ledge without invincibility. Make sure you either set your c-stick to 'Attack' so you don't fast-fall when you Dair, or learn to walk-off Dair manually (I'm not an expert on that).
1:18 - Fair or Nair are better in that situation than Dair, due to the landing lag and poor horizontal range of Dair.
1:25 - You seem to be throwing out your Bairs way too late, make sure you're not just acting on impulses too much, especially against a fast character.
2:10 - When he does something silly like a DA straight at your shield, make sure you're punishing that with jabs.
2:13 - That's how you do it, and see it allows you to keep your spacing and if he had chosen to try and approach, he would have eaten it.
2:21 - Nice job waiting out the air-dodge there. And I guess you can walk-off Dair okay so I'm not sure why you didn't that one time earlier in the match.
2:43 - Sometimes it's best to just finish off the three hit combo quickly instead of trying to jab cancel, it depends how well your opponent is DIing.
2:47 - Way too much running and spot-dodging. He was in the middle of his Dsmash there so I don't see why you spot-dodged instead of just attacking him with jabs.
3:00 - I think he's used at least five different moves to punish your Fairs so far. More Nair.
3:23 - Lololol, and that's why you don't use Ike's ledge attack over 100%.
3:57 - I saw that one coming a mile away; a better player could have easily side-stepped your Dair and punished with an Fsmash for the KO. Never Dair into the stage. Space an Fair or an Nair on your way down instead.
3:58 - Don't roll with Ike, especially not towards your opponent.
4:12 - Dash grab isn't a good idea ever really. At that percent it's better to keep your spacing and try to get off an Utilt or a Bair for the KO, like you were trying for a little earlier. Also, you probably could have survived his Bair if you had DId it up and momentum-canceled with a Dair.

All in all, you played a pretty good match, I didn't see any unnecessary special moves used on-stage which is very good, and you don't roll very often at all which is also good. Just work on using safer approaches and spacing your aerials better, particularly Fair.

You shouldn't be grabbing more than jabbing, Ike can't rack much damage out of a grab, especially at low percents. And cut back on the dash/pivot grabs, they obviously weren't working out too well for you and a dash grab attempt is what lost you the match.

Also, spot-dodges. Don't just throw them out all the time, if your opponent catches on they're easily punishable. And be mindful of how you are returning to the stage both from the sides and from up above, don't get predictable by always falling straight towards your opponent.

Otherwise, good stuff, keep it up.

EDIT: If you have any questions about any of the terms or acronyms that I used, let me know and I can clarify.


:034:
 

XxHollowCorexX

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Sep 21, 2009
Messages
91
Location
Canada
Thanks Nysyarc!
Much is appreciated, I'll try to think more properly and use your tips for the better.
Also, CANADA FTW. :D
 

Nysyarc

Last King of Hollywood
Joined
Apr 21, 2009
Messages
3,389
Location
Dartmouth, Nova Scotia
NNID
Nysyarc
3DS FC
1075-0983-2504
Canada is where it's at. For everything but the smash scene unfortunately. I like my local smash community though... just talented enough that it's a challenge but just small enough that I have a legitimate chance of winning something as an Ike main.

:034:
 

Nysyarc

Last King of Hollywood
Joined
Apr 21, 2009
Messages
3,389
Location
Dartmouth, Nova Scotia
NNID
Nysyarc
3DS FC
1075-0983-2504
Canada having only one regional zone in here is misleading... we're quite a bit larger (albeit less densely populated) than the U.S. I still think we should be split into EC, Central, Northern and WC at least... it's a longer flight from here to WC Canada than just about anywhere in the U.S.

:034:
 

Nysyarc

Last King of Hollywood
Joined
Apr 21, 2009
Messages
3,389
Location
Dartmouth, Nova Scotia
NNID
Nysyarc
3DS FC
1075-0983-2504
Oh gawd, seizures :psycho: I'll try to critique it anyways though... just because you use the same font color as me.

0:27 - Not sure if that was a failed attempt at a jab cancel, in which case you should practice the timing, but if not... don't use jab -> Dtilt on the stage, it's situational enough at the ledge.
0:31 - Although it may be tempting, try not to use Bair like that too often, it has a fair amount of landing lag if not ACd and it's tricky to time it for short characters.
0:44 - Make sure you're not jumping straight into your opponent when you Fair, abuse it's range as much as you can. Try and hit with the tip of the sword every time.
1:03 - Don't use Dair into the stage. Too much landing lag.
1:04 - You shouldn't be able to see Ike crouch between jab cancels, practice practice.
1:10 - You may have intended to land on the platform, but it's not a risk worth taking on SV. Quickdraw is a bad recovery move, stick to Aether as often as possible.
1:35 - When you're trying to hit someone on the stage with Aether, do it in a way so that if they retreat, you can still grab the ledge at the end of Aether. It has very punishable landing lag.
1:46 - Try not to degrade Counter on stuff like that (just air-dodge instead), best to keep it fresh for that charged smash attack counter.
1:47 - Not sure if the Aether was intentional or not but you shouldn't be using on the stage.
2:08 - You shouldn't try to grab or do anything else after Ike's second jab, only his first. The IASA frames on the first jab come faster, so it's more likely to connect.
2:11 - Again, could have been failed jab canceling but Dtilt isn't a good move on the stage, too slow and not enough reward unless they're standing right next to you.
2:18 - Always retreat your Fairs at close range like that, use the c-stick to input the Fair and move back with the control stick; abuse it's reach.
2:28 - You're trying for too much fancy stuff out of jabs but you're doing it kind of slowly. If you connect with the first jab, it's never a bad idea to just complete all three hits.
2:45 - DA is really only useful for punishing a roll away from you or as a follow-up to a Bthrow, it shouldn't be used as an approach or just thrown out as an attack.
2:52 - In a situation like that, it's best to jab or use a smash attack rather than grab. Ike's grab reward is usually pretty low.
2:54 - Also, at that percent (between like 30 - 70 kind of thing) you should be using Bthrow and buffering a DA. It's guaranteed on most characters in that general range. It's really just something you have to eventually develop an instinct for... at least until someone finally gets a chart done up on when it's guaranteed.
3:26 - When you Bair, jump using the control stick and input the Bair with the c-stick right away so that it auto-cancels.
3:37 - He wasn't very good at Ness' recovery >_>

All in all it wasn't bad. I liked the fact that you didn't throw out many random special moves like QD, Counter or Eruption (there was one QD and Counter but nothing serious). Those kind of moves are very situational and a lot of people use them too often. You need to use a bit more Nair, and a lot less Dtilt. Don't worry too much about jab canceling, it's not the greatest thing in the world.

Remember that jabs are better than grabs. Don't throw out DAs randomly. Try to cut back on rolling entirely too, it's always better to just dash or jump around rather than roll. But don't get too dependent on spot-dodging either... basically you have to play ridiculously careful with Ike. Remember to always be conscious of your spacing, hit with the tip of your sword when you use any aerial, and retreat so you can't be punished for the landing lag.

I'll ask that if you do send more videos to critique later on, try to get a better opponent (or at least one who knows how to use the character they're playing a bit better), it's best if you send a video where you don't win. I'm not sure if you plan on using Ike a lot, but if so keep it up, you're on the right track.


:034:
 

Exceladon City

Smash Hero
Joined
Dec 2, 2008
Messages
6,037
Location
The Lonesome Crowded Midwest
Oh gawd, seizures :psycho: I'll try to critique it anyways though... just because you use the same font color as me.

0:27 - Not sure if that was a failed attempt at a jab cancel, in which case you should practice the timing, but if not... don't use jab -> Dtilt on the stage, it's situational enough at the ledge.
0:31 - Although it may be tempting, try not to use Bair like that too often, it has a fair amount of landing lag if not ACd and it's tricky to time it for short characters.
0:44 - Make sure you're not jumping straight into your opponent when you Fair, abuse it's range as much as you can. Try and hit with the tip of the sword every time.
1:03 - Don't use Dair into the stage. Too much landing lag.
1:04 - You shouldn't be able to see Ike crouch between jab cancels, practice practice.
1:10 - You may have intended to land on the platform, but it's not a risk worth taking on SV. Quickdraw is a bad recovery move, stick to Aether as often as possible.
1:35 - When you're trying to hit someone on the stage with Aether, do it in a way so that if they retreat, you can still grab the ledge at the end of Aether. It has very punishable landing lag.
1:46 - Try not to degrade Counter on stuff like that (just air-dodge instead), best to keep it fresh for that charged smash attack counter.
1:47 - Not sure if the Aether was intentional or not but you shouldn't be using on the stage.
2:08 - You shouldn't try to grab or do anything else after Ike's second jab, only his first. The IASA frames on the first jab come faster, so it's more likely to connect.
2:11 - Again, could have been failed jab canceling but Dtilt isn't a good move on the stage, too slow and not enough reward unless they're standing right next to you.
2:18 - Always retreat your Fairs at close range like that, use the c-stick to input the Fair and move back with the control stick; abuse it's reach.
2:28 - You're trying for too much fancy stuff out of jabs but you're doing it kind of slowly. If you connect with the first jab, it's never a bad idea to just complete all three hits.
2:45 - DA is really only useful for punishing a roll away from you or as a follow-up to a Bthrow, it shouldn't be used as an approach or just thrown out as an attack.
2:52 - In a situation like that, it's best to jab or use a smash attack rather than grab. Ike's grab reward is usually pretty low.
2:54 - Also, at that percent (between like 30 - 70 kind of thing) you should be using Bthrow and buffering a DA. It's guaranteed on most characters in that general range. It's really just something you have to eventually develop an instinct for... at least until someone finally gets a chart done up on when it's guaranteed.
3:26 - When you Bair, jump using the control stick and input the Bair with the c-stick right away so that it auto-cancels.
3:37 - He wasn't very good at Ness' recovery >_>

All in all it wasn't bad. I liked the fact that you didn't throw out many random special moves like QD, Counter or Eruption (there was one QD and Counter but nothing serious). Those kind of moves are very situational and a lot of people use them too often. You need to use a bit more Nair, and a lot less Dtilt. Don't worry too much about jab canceling, it's not the greatest thing in the world.

Remember that jabs are better than grabs. Don't throw out DAs randomly. Try to cut back on rolling entirely too, it's always better to just dash or jump around rather than roll. But don't get too dependent on spot-dodging either... basically you have to play ridiculously careful with Ike. Remember to always be conscious of your spacing, hit with the tip of your sword when you use any aerial, and retreat so you can't be punished for the landing lag.

I'll ask that if you do send more videos to critique later on, try to get a better opponent (or at least one who knows how to use the character they're playing a bit better), it's best if you send a video where you don't win. I'm not sure if you plan on using Ike a lot, but if so keep it up, you're on the right track.


:034:
I like Ike and I use him for fun and sometimes goofy low tier battles. Most of what I learned about Ike came from getting destroyed by Infern. Also, I hadn't played brawl in like 2-3 months so I was a bit rusty. Nonetheless, I'm terribad at jab canceling with Ike.
 

Nysyarc

Last King of Hollywood
Joined
Apr 21, 2009
Messages
3,389
Location
Dartmouth, Nova Scotia
NNID
Nysyarc
3DS FC
1075-0983-2504
I like Ike and I use him for fun and sometimes goofy low tier battles. Most of what I learned about Ike came from getting destroyed by Infern. Also, I hadn't played brawl in like 2-3 months so I was a bit rusty. Nonetheless, I'm terribad at jab canceling with Ike.
It's all good, it just takes practice. I wouldn't worry about it if you don't plan on using him too much for serious matches. If you do want to be able to jab cancel effectively, you should just work on canceling jab1 into another jab1 in training mode, and jab1 into Utilt as a way of KOing (it's the easiest follow-up KO move for a jab IMO).

:034:
 

Teh Brettster

Smash Master
Joined
Nov 30, 2008
Messages
3,428
Location
Denton, Texas (Dallas)
Two videos for critique.


Teh Brettster vs Chuck Nasty (PT)
Got a little bit... or a lot bit... ***** because I don't apply even common sense to match-ups I don't know..
Oh, and about not punishing at 1:58--- I really did just want a better looking kill to make the match look cooler. At least I did pull that off. xD


Teh Brettster vs Afrotastic (Snake)

I fared better and played better and won this match, but I still want it critiqued because it's the only other CURRENT video of me.

Thanks in advance.
 

Kimchi

Smash Ace
Joined
Sep 28, 2008
Messages
895
Location
Fort Lee, NJ / Cornell University - Ithaca, NY
Two videos for critique.


Teh Brettster vs Chuck Nasty (PT)
Got a little bit... or a lot bit... ***** because I don't apply even common sense to match-ups I don't know..
Oh, and about not punishing at 1:58--- I really did just want a better looking kill to make the match look cooler. At least I did pull that off. xD


Teh Brettster vs Afrotastic (Snake)

I fared better and played better and won this match, but I still want it critiqued because it's the only other CURRENT video of me.

Thanks in advance.
I haven't provided a critique for a while so I'll critique both, but rather by a point-by-point critique rather than the timeline.
First match:

Against a Pokemon Trainer, you have to play a spacing game, especially against Charizard. Pokemon Trainers like to bait a lot and the reason you lost this match was because you fell for a lot of Chuck's baits. For example, 0:43 and 1:13 were baits that you fell for. So against a Pokemon Trainer, just make sure to play it safe. Retreat a lot of your aerials, especially Nair. Watch your double jumps. 1:25-1:30, although you didn't make it back, you definitely could have if you saved your double jump and double jumping sacrificed a lot of your chances to punish Chuck. So to break it down...
-Spacing (Retreating your aerials)
-Less Double Jumping
-Be more cautious of baits
-More Nair!

Second match:

Ah, Snake. My favorite matchup. Mind you, this Snake was pretty crazy :confused:. Lots and lots of shenanigans I saw. Like 2:32 O_o. Anyway, in this match, you played a bit more like how you should have played against the PT, but you overdid it a little. Don't be afraid to get up close and personal with Snake. You can rack up damage very quickly like that. Short hop aerial dodge approaches work fine here. Your use of Uair and Bair here though was good. Again, make sure to save your double jumps. Fast-fall a lot of your jumps so that if Snake tries to attack you, you can fastfall and jab before his tilts come out. Overall, you played too much like a neat freak o_o, but it's fine if you just get a bit more offensive.

Hope that helps.
 

-RedX-

Smash Lord
Joined
Sep 9, 2009
Messages
1,976
Location
Bronx, NY
So I managed to get replays of my set in winner's bracket from the tournament yesterday, I won but I would like some input from you guys again.
Sorry about no sound again lol

Red-X (Ike) vs Rien (ROB) 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JYMCwSAq9Io

Red-X (Ike) vs Rien (ROB) 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=izWJZaYTIQk

2nd match, I won by 2 stocking so idk if you guys want to critique that match but go ahead if you want o-o
 

Nidtendofreak

Smash Hero
Joined
Feb 10, 2006
Messages
7,265
Location
Belleville, Ontario
NNID
TheNiddo
3DS FC
3668-7651-8940
Penta, he said there was no sound. >_>

One thing I noticed in your first match is that you shielded too much, particularly in the first stock. The attack would be over, and you would still be shielding. Which would lead to shield poking.

You should have DACIT'd with the gyro dang it!
 
Top Bottom