Ryzol_
Smash Apprentice
If Marth tippers CF's shield, does CF get a guaranteed WD OOS -> grab? What if the tipper hits the very edge of your shield, so it would have missed if you weren't shielding?
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Scar talks Lean Melee [2012YotF]
- Thread starter Scar
- Start date
Scar
#HarveyDent
magus posts facts, i post experience
in my experience, SDI in any direction will pop CF off the ground, so that's what i'm going to continue to do, which is more effective than what 90% of captain falcon players currently do, so i'm pretty ok with that.
wd oos grab is actually pretty hard to consistently do vs marth, idk if you do it a lot but i actually can't remember one time that i've ever grabbed marth from a shielded fsmash
just knee him
Fortress | Sveet
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Yea my post was assuming marth didn't do a laggy move on CF's shield. dtilt, fair, nair, bair or jab. Even ftilt if its spaced to the tip.
Ryzol_
Smash Apprentice
Okay.
If you get knocked over and you want to get somewhere fast, is it faster to techroll that direction and run, or to tech in place and run? I'm thinking of the situation where you trade hits and you want to get back up and combo them.
If you get knocked over and you want to get somewhere fast, is it faster to techroll that direction and run, or to tech in place and run? I'm thinking of the situation where you trade hits and you want to get back up and combo them.
Roneblaster
Smash Hero
Ledge(hop)-advancing. How do you guys do it?
I use the stick to jump back, i know other people who use y and others who use the stick.
Also ledgehop -> nair. Any special tips other than "practice practice practice"?
I use the stick to jump back, i know other people who use y and others who use the stick.
Also ledgehop -> nair. Any special tips other than "practice practice practice"?
Mokumo
Smash Ace
just practice. and hit A to do the nair before you move the control stick towards the stage to move. for the most part, the sooner the nair comes out the better
Roneblaster
Smash Hero
wouldnt that make me do a nair as I'm falling to my death?
The Irish Mafia
Banned via Administration
I do down - a - hold towards the ledge.
practice
practice
GamerGuitarist7
Smash Champion
i'm with big d on that one. i don't think wd oos to grab is fast enough and i don't think you're close enough to knee if THAT is even fast enough
TresChikon
Smash Lord
So, if the Marth is spot on, all Falcon can do is run away and start over? Gee, Falcon really doesn't have any good matchups.
well yes and no
a human marth cannot actually react fast enough to hit you out of your moves every single time, even if he gets it most of the time. just be very varied in your timing and method of attacking. its never really safe to approach, but do it occasionally to make sure hes worried about it. the way g reg once described the best way to play captain falcon in every matchup was "be defensive, but look aggressive". this is especially effective in the matchups where you have to beat range/priority, like marth and sheik. try to get them to defend themselves against an approach youre not going to do, and to do that you will have to use a reckless approach or two at some point.
so really, yes, there is nothing you can do to literally beat out marths moves, and i do think that marth does have a slight edge on falcon even in terms of human capabilities, but they wont be perfect so you can get in there
a human marth cannot actually react fast enough to hit you out of your moves every single time, even if he gets it most of the time. just be very varied in your timing and method of attacking. its never really safe to approach, but do it occasionally to make sure hes worried about it. the way g reg once described the best way to play captain falcon in every matchup was "be defensive, but look aggressive". this is especially effective in the matchups where you have to beat range/priority, like marth and sheik. try to get them to defend themselves against an approach youre not going to do, and to do that you will have to use a reckless approach or two at some point.
so really, yes, there is nothing you can do to literally beat out marths moves, and i do think that marth does have a slight edge on falcon even in terms of human capabilities, but they wont be perfect so you can get in there
Reaver197
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Sep 30, 2006
- Messages
- 1,287
I highly suggest switching to using Y to ledgehop. It will make doing aerials and wavelands off the ledge much easier and practical.
Cosmo!
nerf zelda's dsmash
i guarentee marth tip Fsmash has too much hitlag on your shield for you to WD out (especially at that ridiculous range) and grab marth before he can do anything
non-tipped, go for it
non-tipped, go for it
Scar
#HarveyDent
bet you i could knee him
reneblade practice is what you need but i recommend first deciding HOW you want to learn how to do it and then practicing that, instead of just trying to do it over and over and seeing what works.
reneblade practice is what you need but i recommend first deciding HOW you want to learn how to do it and then practicing that, instead of just trying to do it over and over and seeing what works.
Magus420
Smash Master
Yeah, if it does tip the shield there's no way you can knee him. Even if he's at the very edge of the stage/platform so he doesn't have room to get any of the pushback from hitting a shield, you shield SDI it towards him, and you time the jump perfectly you'd still not get close enough. Under any normal conditions you don't even come close. Also, when it's spaced properly to tip you and the shield being closer causes it to not tip, you still normally can't even knee him. The spacing needs to be off altogether to get close enough for it.
That said, if it's spaced to tip on hit the shield will often reach in enough to cause it to not tip on block, and while you can't knee him you are able to WD OoS to JC grab it. If you were holding towards him (shield ASDI) it helps out a bit. Technically it's possible to WD JC grab him even if it does tip, but it needs to be so perfect that it'd only really be usable if he happens to be at the edge of the stage/platform where he won't be sliding backwards.
Overall though, one type of tech being faster to get them than the other depends on how close they end up to where the techroll goes and what you want to do. If you're going to be running a fair amount of the distance anyway the techroll would be faster, while if you wanted to knee someone only a techroll's distance away it would be faster to tech in place since the longer time to reach there is more than made up for by being able to get the jump and knee out along the way instead of afterwards.
That said, if it's spaced to tip on hit the shield will often reach in enough to cause it to not tip on block, and while you can't knee him you are able to WD OoS to JC grab it. If you were holding towards him (shield ASDI) it helps out a bit. Technically it's possible to WD JC grab him even if it does tip, but it needs to be so perfect that it'd only really be usable if he happens to be at the edge of the stage/platform where he won't be sliding backwards.
The techroll forward covers a little more distance than his run would during the difference in tech lag. His techroll forward is actually the 2nd longest next to Ganon's.
Overall though, one type of tech being faster to get them than the other depends on how close they end up to where the techroll goes and what you want to do. If you're going to be running a fair amount of the distance anyway the techroll would be faster, while if you wanted to knee someone only a techroll's distance away it would be faster to tech in place since the longer time to reach there is more than made up for by being able to get the jump and knee out along the way instead of afterwards.
Roneblaster
Smash Hero
Christmas Come Early
JPOBS
Smash Hero
i know its been said a lot but i seriously love magus' posts. god****
Afro_Chris
Smash Ace
haha i told u guys :D, so said u cant wd oos and grab marth
Fortress | Sveet
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Couldn't you take control of the stage though?
WD OoS
If he rolls follow it and ****. otherwise, can't you get a grab out before marth jabs/does any other move?
WD OoS
If he rolls follow it and ****. otherwise, can't you get a grab out before marth jabs/does any other move?
Scar
#HarveyDent
in my experience good marths usually grab, so don't get too comfy
broken *** marth grab range
broken *** marth grab range
Fortress | Sveet
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k just asking
ChivalRuse
Smash Hero
Yea his grab range is stupid. He'll be grabbing you more than Sheik AND it's usually a stock from that grab.
Milos
Smash Lord
hmm something i learned is that the grab hitbox is the same for captain falcon as it is for marth.
marth's is just placed differently, it's in front of him. but that's why captain falcon can grab bahind himself and all that nonsense
marth's is just placed differently, it's in front of him. but that's why captain falcon can grab bahind himself and all that nonsense
Tomacawk
Smash Master
as a sheik grabs aren't usually stocks? =\
falcon sucks btw I can't play this character anymore
he's fronts like he's good by having insane combos but everybody knows he's an abused empty shell of a man at heart
falcon sucks btw I can't play this character anymore
he's fronts like he's good by having insane combos but everybody knows he's an abused empty shell of a man at heart
NES n00b
Smash Master
**** your shit.
Ryzol_
Smash Apprentice
What's a good way to ledgehop waveland with invincibility frame that minimizes your chance of SD?
CanISmash
Smash Lord
practice....
ChivalRuse
Smash Hero
Falcon's ledgedash is easy. I've never SD'ed doing it.
Fox and Falco aren't so easy.
Fox and Falco aren't so easy.
Afro_Chris
Smash Ace
fox and falco are the easiest its just a normal wave dash for falco, and like a wave shine for fox, the timing doesn't even change
JPOBS
Smash Hero
its not a normal wavedash cuz you have to let go of the ledge somehow.
this is the main problem for me when trying to ledge waveland with fox/falco. They fall/jump so fast i either go too low and SD on the airdodge, or go too high and do a sloppy waveland and get *****.
luckily fox/falco have like a billion other options from the ledge so wavelanding isnt that important.
this is the main problem for me when trying to ledge waveland with fox/falco. They fall/jump so fast i either go too low and SD on the airdodge, or go too high and do a sloppy waveland and get *****.
luckily fox/falco have like a billion other options from the ledge so wavelanding isnt that important.
TresChikon
Smash Lord
Well you could imitate the waveshine timing, however it really kills your invincibility time. So it's better to practice w/o the shine.
Afro_Chris
Smash Ace
true, when it all comes down to it its all about the practice
ChivalRuse
Smash Hero
No. It's definitely different because you have to hit down and then time the airdodge.
I agree Falcon's ledge waveland is easy. Like how the flashy wavelanding across platforms isn't as hard as it looks.
NES n00b
Smash Master
Just in case people like Gameguitarist awhile back want to see videos of me. http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=254917
GamerGuitarist7
Smash Champion
thanks nes noob, gonna watch them now
iamthemicrowave
Smash Master
that mountain combo was so broken