Zelda's Hitbubbles/.Pac Included

☆_Mutha-Foxin GangstaKirby_☆ · Nov 16, 2009

KayLo! said:
How about you go do it, then?

That's a lot of work and kind of unnecessary unless you happen to have a bunch of free time on your hands. Getting frame-by-frame snapshots alone would take forever. These pictures give a good enough idea of what her hitboxes look like.

But hey, if someone is up for the hours of work it would take.... more power to them.

i currently dont have access to psa or an sdcard reader or i would have done it long time ago for a character i cared about, i only checked here because i have matchup issues with zelda... and hours no... more like hour (singular)

EDIT:

KayLo! said:
BtC, he's referring to this:

Even a vid wouldn't show the "stretch" of the hitboxes between their different positions.

However, while a vid or pics showing this would be nice, it would take a LOT of work. If someone's willing to do it, great, but for the time being, I think these screenshots do a good enough job until there's an easier way to do the other method.

its not hard, i already explained how to show the stretch of hitboxes in that first post i made

KayLo! · Nov 16, 2009

It would take significantly longer than an hour.

Taking that many screenshots alone would take a while (especially since Zelda has so many lingering, multihit moves), plus the added time it would take to upload + convert them all, then edit in GIMP/Photoshop, then upload to an image site.

Saying it'd take an hour is pretty ridiculous, lol.

mountain_tiger · Nov 16, 2009

KayLo! said:
It would take significantly longer than an hour.

Taking that many screenshots alone would take a while (especially since Zelda has so many lingering, multihit moves), plus the added time it would take to upload + convert them all, then edit in GIMP/Photoshop, then upload to an image site.

Saying it'd take an hour is pretty ridiculous, lol.

An hour per move, perhaps?

But yeah, the currently shown hitboxes are fine...

☆_Mutha-Foxin GangstaKirby_☆ · Nov 16, 2009

KayLo! said:
It would take significantly longer than an hour.

Taking that many screenshots alone would take a while (especially since Zelda has so many lingering, multihit moves), plus the added time it would take to upload + convert them all, then edit in GIMP/Photoshop, then upload to an image site.

Saying it'd take an hour is pretty ridiculous, lol.

15-20 mins for all moves photos, 5 minsish for each move varying only slightly by amount of frames and like 1 second to upload
so ok like 1-2 hours

mountain_tiger said:
An hour per move, perhaps?

But yeah, the currently shown hitboxes are fine...

not really... on video yes but snapshots no because the aren't accurate to what occurs in total

GodAtHand · Nov 16, 2009

gangstakirby said:
because im pissed at how innacurate these images are

for those of you whom plan to post images of these hit boxes, the best way to get accurate full hitboxes would be to take a snap shot of everysingle frame until they are gone then in photoshop lay all the images over each other leaving the final frame on the bottom WITHOUT MOVING THEM crop everything but the bubbles and the very bottom image file and that shud give an accurate overall hitbox image

Couldn't you just do everything the same but instead of cropping everything but the bubbles you could change the opacity of the images so they all sort of show at once? That way you have character movement and hitbubbles in one image.

KayLo! · Nov 16, 2009

The other problem with his method is that there's no easy way to take frame-by-frame snapshots. (Unless something came up that I'm not aware of.)

With Debug Pause, you can't start/pause + snapshot while you're in "frame by frame" mode.

With the code that slows down the game, a) it'd take forever, and b) if you accidentally missed a frame, you'd have to start all the way from the beginning of the move again.

It's just.... really time-consuming, which is why no one's done it yet.

GodAtHand · Nov 16, 2009

KayLo! said:
The other problem with his method is that there's no easy way to take frame-by-frame snapshots. (Unless something came up that I'm not aware of.)

With Debug Pause, you can't start/pause + snapshot while you're in "frame by frame" mode.

I think your right. In order to do this proper you would have to take a video anyway and then slow it down and take frame snapshots that way. So if you are taking a video that should just be used instead really.

AlMoStLeGeNdArY · Nov 16, 2009

Why doesn't someone just make a vid of it? That seems the easiest.

☆_Mutha-Foxin GangstaKirby_☆ · Nov 16, 2009

GodAtHand said:
Couldn't you just do everything the same but instead of cropping everything but the bubbles you could change the opacity of the images so they all sort of show at once? That way you have character movement and hitbubbles in one image.

because you may get to a point where the opacity level is too high

KayLo! said:
The other problem with his method is that there's no easy way to take frame-by-frame snapshots. (Unless something came up that I'm not aware of.)

With Debug Pause, you can't start/pause + snapshot while you're in "frame by frame" mode.

With the code that slows down the game, a) it'd take forever, and b) if you accidentally missed a frame, you'd have to start all the way from the beginning of the move again.

It's just.... really time-consuming, which is why no one's done it yet.

camera duh :/

AlMoStLeGeNdArY said:
Why doesn't someone just make a vid of it? That seems the easiest.

video you dont see the warp from point a to b all at once which is the goal of snapshots

KayLo! · Nov 16, 2009

GodAtHand said:
So if you are taking a video that should just be used instead really.

Well, what gangstakirby is talking about -- and what I quoted a few posts back -- is the fact that hitboxes "stretch" between frames. Even if we took a video, it'd just show the separate hitbox positions without this stretching.

For example (the same example I quoted before): Snake's utilt.

In snapshots and a video, the hitbox is in front of him from frames 6-7, then above him from frame 8 onward.

What gangstakirby's suggesting would illustrate the entire arc of the utilt as one hitbox, because even though the hitbox only appears above him from frame 8 onwards, it's actually still active horizontally (i.e., where it was frames 6-7). The PSA bubbles don't show that, though.

@gangstakirby: "Camera duh"? Nice answer. Elaborate, please, because if you're suggesting a digital camera...... lolol.

GodAtHand · Nov 16, 2009

Oki doki, I understand this now then!

I want someone to do that in the normal side brawl view for Zelda and do one from the front so we get a 3D view of her hitbubbles as well!

GET ON IT!

MrEh · Nov 17, 2009

AlMoStLeGeNdArY said:
Why doesn't someone just make a vid of it? That seems the easiest.

Feel free to make a video whenever you want.

Wolfric · Nov 17, 2009

Really interesting in my opinion, even if it may not be 100% certain.

KayLo! · Nov 21, 2009

Not to step on BtC's toes, but some of the screenshots he did are incomplete..... a lot of her multihit moves have more hitboxes than he noted (in most cases, he didn't depict the larger, ending hitbox). Usmash, fsmash, and jab are three that I know for sure have additional hitbubbles.

I just got home, and I'm a little tipsy (

), but I might do this before I go to sleep since I is not tired yet. =X

EDIT: I'll also do some from different angles since people expressed interest in that.

-Mars- · Nov 21, 2009

hahahahahaha i'm blown rightg now hahahahah and gkirbz in here stuntin on these doood hahahahaaha

KayLo! · Nov 21, 2009

-Mars- said:
gkirbz in here stuntin on these doood

Oh yeah, stuntin with his suggestion that doesn't even work. He's real great.

Battletanx_Commander · Nov 21, 2009

KayLo! said:
Not to step on BtC's toes, but some of the screenshots he did are incomplete..... a lot of her multihit moves have more hitboxes than he noted (in most cases, he didn't depict the larger, ending hitbox). Usmash, fsmash, and jab are three that I know for sure have additional hitbubbles.

I just got home, and I'm a little tipsy (), but I might do this before I go to sleep since I is not tired yet. =X

EDIT: I'll also do some from different angles since people expressed interest in that.

My mistake, I forgot about the last hitbubble being larger on those three moves. :V Also, I fixed up the .pac a bit Friday since I found out I did some of the GFX loops wrong.

Wolfric · Nov 21, 2009

Would be great to have a nice accurate pac, that way after using it a bit we could actually prevent using an attack that'd not even reach.

KayLo! · Nov 21, 2009

Wolfric said:
Would be great to have a nice accurate pac, that way after using it a bit we could actually prevent using an attack that'd not even reach.

What? The .pac is as accurate as it can be at this point.

Wolfric · Nov 21, 2009

Oh, hadn't read Battletanx' post.

KayLo! · Nov 21, 2009

Additional Hitbubble Screenshots.

Shows some hitboxes not included in the OP.

Shots taken wide with Marth for size comparison.

Jab

Initial hitboxes:

Final hitbox:

Dash Attack

Part 1:

Part 2:

Dtilt

Ftilt

Part 1:

Part 2:

Utilt

Part 1:

Part 2:

Part 3:

Dsmash

Part 1:

Part 2:

Part 3:

Part 4:

Fsmash

Initial hitboxes:

Final hitbox:

Usmash

Initial hitboxes:

Final hitbox:

Nair

Initial hitboxes:

Final hitbox:

Fair
*Note how the hitbox contracts*

Part 1:

Part 2:

Bair

Part 1:

Part 2:

Uair

Dair

Part 1 (sweetspot):

Part 2 (sourspot):

Naryu's Love

Initial hitboxes:

Final hitbox:

Farore's Wind

Part 1:

Part 2:

Standing Grab

Dash Grab

Pivot Grab

Ledge Attack (<100%)

Part 1:

Part 2:

Ledge Attack (>100%)

Part 1:

Part 2:

zeldspazz · Nov 21, 2009

Thanks Kaylo! Why you gotta leave

I lold irl at nair final hitbox for some reason xD

Wolfric · Nov 21, 2009

Great pictures! I wish Zelda had some hitboxes as Snake's..http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=255737

AlMoStLeGeNdArY · Nov 21, 2009

usmash hit box seems like hax wtf.

Kaffei · Nov 21, 2009

Dang Btanx! This is awesome

powuh_of_PIE · Nov 22, 2009

Well done Btanx and Kaylo. I'm assuming this stuff will at least be ref'd (if not included) in the guide?

zeldspazz · Nov 22, 2009

Lol @ everything being about the guide now.

I think you should at the very least put the grab vs. pivot grab range in the guide. HSS said he wanted a pic of that and these could do nicely

KayLo! · Nov 22, 2009

powuh_of_PIE said:
I'm assuming this stuff will at least be ref'd (if not included) in the guide?

Definitely!

zeldspazz said:
Lol @ everything being about the guide now.

I think you should at the very least put the grab vs. pivot grab range in the guide. HSS said he wanted a pic of that and these could do nicely

*double take*

I SEE A GLACEON. <333

But yeah, all this stuff will be included in the guide in some way.

Half-Split Soul · Nov 22, 2009

zeldspazz said:
Lol @ everything being about the guide now.

Well, seeing how (other than these hitbox pictures, <3 all of them) the guide is practically the only thing to help her metagame on this board in a good while I'd say that's justified.

But I'll definitely use these for the pivot grab/normal grab range comparison.

KayLo! said:
I SEE A GLACEON. <333

His new avatar instantly reminded me of your fact file too... is it alarming that I can still write this straight from my memory?

"KayLo! is a 22-year-old ~~female~~ Glaceon currently residing in Philly."

choknater · Nov 23, 2009

usmash and nair have such **** hitboxes

PK-ow! · Nov 23, 2009

Kataefi said:
Ftilt is strange because it looks really short... I think the reason it is as ranged as Fsmash (or appears to be) is because she steps forwards a lot. In that pic, she'd normally be standing straight where her back leg is I think.

I noticed a while ago that there is a hitbox on ftilt that can knock someone forward - about 30 degrees from horizontal.

It seems kinda weak, but I've only been able to land it on a sandbag.

Likewise, though, I confirmed that you can hit this 'in the back' and knock the target backwards (150 degrees from horizontal).

I am intrigued, to say the least, that ftilt does not change its hitbox with angling. That's just.... incredible.
I'll be messing around a bit next chance I get.

Is my discovery with the ftilt hitbox known?

zeldspazz · Nov 23, 2009

Glaceons are pretty <3

I just had to use it

Half-Split Soul · Nov 23, 2009

PK-ow! said:
Is my discovery with the ftilt hitbox known?

I'd be lying if I said it isn't... I remember first talking about it right here on these boards over a year ago. What was established back then is that the hitbox that sends enemies forward is located quite near Zelda's body and is often very hard to hit with on purpose. It also appears with all three anglings of Ftilt and has different properties (launch speed, hitstun etc) than the regular hitbox, although I don't remember anyone being able to make a full and accurate list of all the differences.

And since I started talking about Ftilt, here's another completely useless fact about it: hitting someone hanging from the ledge with down-angled Ftilt may cause them to get stagespiked, depending on the situations. This happens most often to G&W.

zeldspazz · Nov 23, 2009

Makes sense HSS, I mean the trajectory of ftilt often pops them up and behind, causing the to hit the stage. Interesting none the less though, I never really thought the range would reach that low.

Half-Split Soul · Nov 23, 2009

zeldspazz said:
Makes sense HSS, I mean the trajectory of ftilt often pops them up and behind, causing the to hit the stage. Interesting none the less though, I never really thought the range would reach that low.

It can't hit all characters... the ones hanging too low (Snake for example) are completely safe from it. I actually even have the full list of those that can be hit and those that can't.

Also, what's more interesting is that most of the time Ftilt sends hanging characters to bounce away from the Zelda after they hit the stage, but certain circumstances cause this to change. What's best is that these circumstances are different for different characters: some start getting spiked at certain percentages, some on certain stages. G&W gets almost always spiked. (based on brief tests I did at some point, can't remember when...)

Useless but interesting nonetheless.

PK-ow! · Nov 23, 2009

Half-Split Soul said:
It can't hit all characters... the ones hanging too low (Snake for example) are completely safe from it. I actually even have the full list of those that can be hit and those that can't.

Also, what's more interesting is that most of the time Ftilt sends hanging characters to bounce away from the Zelda after they hit the stage, but certain circumstances cause this to change. What's best is that these circumstances are different for different characters: some start getting spiked at certain percentages, some on certain stages. G&W gets almost always spiked. (based on brief tests I did at some point, can't remember when...)

Useless but interesting nonetheless.

Knowledge is never useless.

So, angling ftilt changes the knockback (does it change damage?), but not the hitbox.

Think it was a programming error?

KayLo! · Nov 23, 2009

Half-Split Soul said:
His new avatar instantly reminded me of your fact file too... is it alarming that I can still write this straight from my memory?

"KayLo! is a 22-year-old ~~female~~ Glaceon currently residing in Philly."

Lol. That's a little surprising, not gonna lie. x.o

PK-ow! said:
I noticed a while ago that there is a hitbox on ftilt that can knock someone forward - about 30 degrees from horizontal.

It seems kinda weak, but I've only been able to land it on a sandbag.

Likewise, though, I confirmed that you can hit this 'in the back' and knock the target backwards (150 degrees from horizontal).

I am intrigued, to say the least, that ftilt does not change its hitbox with angling. That's just.... incredible.
I'll be messing around a bit next chance I get.

Is my discovery with the ftilt hitbox known?

Dunno if this helps you, but here's what PSA has to say about ftilt. I dunno what units it's going by or anything, but maybe you'll understand better than I do.

Btw, I took out all the stuff that doesn't mean anything to us (like hitbubble positioning).

Offensive Collision 0
Damage: 13
Direction: 110
Base Knockback: 0
Weight Knockback: 0
Knockback Growth: 88

Offensive Collision 1
Damage: 13
Direction: 110
Base Knockback: 0
Weight Knockback: 0
Knockback Growth: 88

Offensive Collision 2
Damage: 12
Direction: 361
Base Knockback: 0
Weight Knockback: 0
Knockback Growth: 88

Offensive Collision 3
Damage: 11
Direction: 361
Base Knockback: 0
Weight Knockback: 0
Knockback Growth: 88

For comparison, all of jab's directions are 361. Uair's is 90 (straight up). I'm guessing it's measured in degrees, then?

EDIT: Also, all 3 angles of ftilt (up, straight, down) are the same.

Half-Split Soul · Nov 24, 2009

KayLo! said:
Lol. That's a little surprising, not gonna lie. x.o

I have the best memory when it comes to all the small/useless details and not-so-important tidbits of information.

And just how much has it helped me to know what kalhu is or why the current lenght of marathon is 385 yards more than before? Not at all.

Getting back on topic...

For comparison, all of jab's directions are 361. Uair's is 90 (straight up). I'm guessing it's measured in degrees, then?

I'd say it's safe to assume that's the case, with the extra 1 degree past full circle being there to stop all kinds of weird things the move could cause (like characters flying in completely horizontal line).

What's interesting are the two practically identical collision hitboxes the move has for both directions. Maybe one of them is for the normal 2D hit and the second for the 3D hitbox, aka the one that hits even characters' background parts? Of course it could also be something like that the first is when hitting grounded and the second when hitting aerial opponents...

Does anyone know the reason for sure?

PK-ow! · Nov 24, 2009

I remember reading, at the outset of the Brawl hacking endeavours, that special values like 360, 361, and I think 362, meant something special and different from an angle in degrees...

Like... it meant you couldn't DI the attack, or it was super DI-able, or something...

I don't know if I could find that thread again. But we can clearly see it's some special value, because Jab doesn't knock at 1 degree. 1 degree is really small.

KayLo! · Nov 24, 2009

Might be that you can't DI it. The two hitboxes with 361 values are the janky ones by her arm/armpit.

Zelda's Hitbubbles/.Pac Included

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