Project GENO - MarioDK Demo out

Ragaar31 · Nov 21, 2009

About the new Fighrer Geno:

I like his new animations. Is the 'click' noise you hear when he lands supposed to be there? Also it seems like his new standing animation breaks the lower part of the tunic, it clips through the belt. I don't know if that's fixable, but it's not that important anyway. I like that he has his own Final Smash, but I'm not sure what it's supposed to be or do. The new specials are nice, I think they fit the character better. I don't like the down b special, it just seems weird.

Just a little feedback for you. Keep up the good work.

phantomphungus · Nov 21, 2009

I think I'm the only one here who takes the lack of a new Cosmic Geno as a relatively good thing. The reason, of course, is for disclosed reasons. he he he.

But I would still love a new Cosmic Geno with animation swaps and things, because he's mainly who I play out of the two.

IndigoFenix · Nov 21, 2009

Hmm...

The problem is that a lot of Cosmic Geno's attacks were designed for and centered around his playing style, so they might not fit as well elsewhere. I'm talking about the floaty, slow - almost turn-based, if you will - physics he was made with. Fast-falling makes Geno Boost a lot less useful, and yes, Geno Blast doesn't feel quite right with him, since it's an essentially long-range attack and Fighter Geno is primarily a close-range character. Maybe that's one of the reasons why you never really liked it, Shadic...

Cosmic Geno was basically designed to fight at a range of about 2 or 3 Stage Builder blocks away or more, with most of his close-range moves being designed to put the opponent into that range and most of his specials being either set-ups or follow-ups to earlier attacks. Fighter Geno, by contrast, is essentially a speedy close-range combo character with some long-range options to round him out. More reaction-based and not as planning-based.

The truth is that, although I never really thought of him as being very Geno-like, I did think he had a great playing style in his previous version. I have to say that I don't really think his new specials fit him all that well... He should have something...faster and more direct, I think. His other moves fit him well, though.

I know there hasn't been a lot of updates on Cosmic Geno lately, the truth is that I'm still experimenting with him and to be honest, I think a lot of that experimentation will become obsolete once BrawlBox has an animation previewer in it, so I'm not all that intent on changing things too much since I already have a whole bunch of other ideas that I'd like to put in once I can design new animations (lots of guns, for starters...). And... I STILL can't find the Spark effect in the Partition. It's got to be there somewhere...

That's not to say that I haven't been experimenting with creating new animations even without an animation previewer. Of course, Toon Link's body has too many parts to make constant guess-and-test worthwhile. However...

Shadic · Nov 21, 2009

As I said, DownB is being changed in the next set, UpB is probably as well, but keeping the Powered-Up Effect on Aerials.

I'm having issues with my SD slot however, it's been fading for the last week or two, and now it's hardly recognizing any SD cards at all. So yes, it's a hardware issue.

Douhneill · Nov 23, 2009

it looks like it's flu season for computers too.

My hard drive killed itself, so it looks like I won't be able to do any REAL work. That, and it makes things hellish when trying to get or post anything here.

In other news, I'm just getting the new fighter Geno now. I'll (hopefully) have a large-ish comparison as to what seems more Geno-ish, and what seems more suited to Brawl.

Gedab · Nov 23, 2009

Great work and all Shadic and IndigoFenix, but are there gonna be any new motion files for Geno? The only one I saw is the one of the first page...

Shadic · Nov 23, 2009

Fighter Geno is the only one that needs a Motion pac as of now.

Gedab · Nov 23, 2009

Then how do we get geno to look like those awesome snapshots you guys have on the first page?

Shadic · Nov 23, 2009

You.. Download everything in the rar in the first post? It's explained pretty clearly. There's a texture file (FitToonLink03.pcs) a character file (FitToonLink.pac), and an animation file (FitToonLinkMotionEtc.pac) that you drag. Don't just grab the character pac file, get all of them.

Gedab · Nov 23, 2009

Now there are two probs here:

I already tried all of that and all it looks like is toon link with no sword or shield and some altered moves plus all the b button moves are the same... and it still is nowhere near close to the awesome snapshots you guys have

Am I doin' somethin' wrong here?

Anoher note is that it was a zip file...

Shadic · Nov 23, 2009

Do you have Brawl+? That's what these characters were designed for and use codes from. Also, you selected the wrong texture. Pick Toon Link's blue color.

As for the moves, do you have FitToonLink.pac in the proper location?

Gedab · Nov 23, 2009

oh... ok now It works... *plays as new character for a little bit*
:O..... HOLY CRAP!!!!!! This is awesome dude!

So When is Cosmic Geno gonna be fixed?

Sails · Nov 24, 2009

It was a dark night about five days ago, when all of a sudden an IM window lowers my League of Legends; "DOOD LETS MAEK A TEXTURE LOL"

Shadic had IM'd me, and I told him "STFUNOOB"

Then I finished my game and we got to work on the texture set.

And so I present to you Forest Maze, based off of the same area of Super Mario RPG fame! It has fog adjustments so it's the entire SSE level recently released with the B+ beta. It replaces Hyrule Temple. Enjoy!

Hint: Click the thumbnails!

Doesn't it look nice?

Pay no attention to Geno beating up a party member :D

Geno approves! In a menacing way...

What's that in the background? Wait...

Link: http://www.mediafire.com/?vzdwzgho2wl

Credits:
Shadic - Original idea, Tossing around ideas, 2D Sprite Background work + Sweet Yellow Pad platform
Sonicandtails (Me) - Tossing around moar ideas, 3D tree + main platform/ground area (And the totally awesome present I snuck in the background)
Peardian - Your lovely map for SMRPG. Without it we would have had to load up an emulator and take screenshots D:
Spriters-Resource - Various sprites
My Family - For not bugging me this week
Shadic's Girlfriend - For not being your average girlfriend and taking up all of his time (And money!)
Dantarion - For the working SSE stage

AND MOST IMPORTANTLY

Note: Yes. The trees tilt. The original isometric trees combined with the original sprites tilting to screen position is a little weird looking. Oh well. Shadows are also missing and you will never unsee it. Not our fault.

FrozenHobo · Nov 24, 2009

there, was that so hard?

Sails · Nov 24, 2009

FrozenPopo said:
there, was that so hard?

I was busy helping him do some modifications on a newly acquired system, of course it was hard D:

Suntan Luigi · Nov 24, 2009

Words cannot descibe the amount of epic and win that is this stage.

DeltaV · Nov 25, 2009

Coolness in a cool way that is very COOL! i remember this as a SSE stage where u had to fight fake bowser....and lol at the star piece in the background!

if we could just REALLY make our own stages...not that stagebuilder thingythingus, but real stages.....dont think it will be possible......

PND · Nov 25, 2009

I'm curious -- I'm using PhantomWings SSS expansion. Can I just rename that to stgcustom# and it will work? If so, will it use Battlefield's music like all the other stage I've loaded on or Temple's?

Shadic · Nov 25, 2009

I don't think it'll work, as stage replacements are meant to go over WiFi waiting room. You could try, but don't be surprised if it crashes.

PND · Nov 25, 2009

That makes me a sad panda. I thought as much.

toddtj · Nov 25, 2009

Wow- it's already out, huh?
Awesome!

I just got done playing this stage, and I have to tell you, I'm very impressed.
The screenshots honestly do not do it justice.

This is easily the best stage texture hack I've seen- if I didn't know better, I might think it was official. The level of detail in the background is amazing, and the stage you chose to texture is a perfect fit. Having the 3d trees just brings it together.

Thank you for making this.

EDIT: Why did you choose to replace the temple, rather than the waiting room? The temple is a semi-popular map for me and my friends- it's a shame to have to switch back and forth.

I don't think it'll work, as stage replacements are meant to go over WiFi waiting room. You could try, but don't be surprised if it crashes.

Also, I'm confused as to how this makes sense, as this map does not replace the waiting room.

Shadic · Nov 25, 2009

Er. By Waiting Room, I meant Temple. My bad.

The B+ hackery people converted the Hyrule Temple level into SSE Jungle level, and there's something about how levels replacing other levels need to be done specifically for that level, or something. I'm not sure of the details.

PND · Nov 25, 2009

I have that non textured version of that level working over WiFi waiting room currently . . . . so not sure if that'll change anything.

Shadic · Nov 25, 2009

Yeah, that's because that version was designed for it. I mean, we could port over all the textures to that version...

...:::VILE:::... · Nov 25, 2009

Shadic, i can put that stage on any other stage if you please.

Douhneill · Nov 25, 2009

Why did my parents decide to be such cruel people now of all times? *sob*

With my trying to replace stages with SSE ones (which isn't working, I need to ask about that), and my inability to play brawl for long enough to try anything else, and now this stage texture... The only thing that I can really do now is let you guys know how awesome this is.

Fortunately, this weekend I'm free to do what I want, so I'll (hopefully) be able to do some animations if you guys are interested. Make him move more like a possessed wooden doll.
Keep up the great work, guys! I'm looking forward to what you can come up with next.

IndigoFenix · Nov 25, 2009

Oh, are you making animations? I think his running is good enough for now (Geno should be cool, not creepy), but if you can get some finger bullet or hand gun poses, that would be great! And maybe rocket punches, if that's possible. See if you can imitate Geno's animations from SMRPG, maybe?

Douhneill · Nov 25, 2009

That was my original idea. Although It'd be much cooler to have a final version of the model hack first, now that I can see what the hell I'm doing while editing the animations, whatever differences there are will be... taken care of... when the time arrives.

All in all, the moves I know I'm going to edit are finger shot, rocket punch, star shot (probably, I'll need to see how it looks), Geno Blast, Geno whirl, and Geno Beam.

Any particular suggestions for any other moves? And are there any moves I should know about weird coding as to what animations it uses?

IndigoFenix · Nov 25, 2009

Well, I wanted his FAir to look like the punch he uses on Bowyer in his first battle scene. Rush forward, spin around. Toon Link's FAir worked well, but if we're using Ness as a base, we could do with a more 'flowing' animation so it's not so choppy when the animation finishes.

Also, aerial versions of specials should look slightly different than their ground versions, just so the feet aren't level with invisible ground. Not such a big issue, but it adds to the professional feel.

As for weird coding, it shouldn't be too much of an issue. Geno Whirl and Geno Boost are both single animations, and Geno Beam and Geno Blast have similar coding, and that coding can potentially be altered without too much trouble. Just make sure that there are at least 2 animations, one for charging and one for firing. (Also, if there's a single, non-looping animation for the full charge time, I can make Geno Beam chargeable in the air as well.)

Oh, I almost forgot! We've got to have the Geno Cross-Arms-And-Nod as a taunt! Ness' worked for a while, but now we can really take off!

Hey, that's a great stage! Maybe I should finish my Smithy's Destination as well...

Douhneill · Nov 25, 2009

Brilliant!!!!

Ok, thanks for letting me know. Geno beam can have one entire animation if you want. Does that mean all I need is to keep him in the one pose for essentially the length of the attack, because I really kind of don't really know where animation stops and effects start.

Smithy's destination...

Holy crap, I just got another Geno stage idea... I just need to find a stage with the same-ish collision data as battlefield (and I'll even maybe have something else, once I figure out how)... I probably can't do much right now... but who says that's a problem? (actually, my only problem would be porting the SSE stage into a battle stage, so I'd probably use battlefield once I got around to it)

Wait, I'm doing animation editing! Ignore that previous post... for this week, at least. (it'll take that long for me to get all the data I lost from my hard drive again)

IndigoFenix · Nov 25, 2009

Basically just keep him in the same pose, maybe moving a little just to make it interesting. The rest is done with effects.

Douhneill · Nov 25, 2009

Okay, so I just have one animation that lasts the full length of the charge.
Correct me if I'm missing anything, but the list animations v0.1 (if even) is:

1) Geno Beam (ground, and air)
2) Geno Whirl (ground and air)
3) Geno Blast (ground)
4) Bullet Shot (jab)
5) Rocket Punch (ftilt)
6) Star Shot (fsmash)
7) Pummel (fair)
8) Victory Nod (staunt)

just to be sure, are you both using the same toon link move effect pac? or do I just start off from scratch?
And, with that, I think I've become your new model hacker too... crap. umm... The model is for v2 (once the only changes are for whatever changes are necessitated by the change in model)... yeah...

IndigoFenix · Nov 25, 2009

It should probably be based on the Ness/Lucas model (I don't think anyone can tell the difference between their proportions.)

Douhneill · Nov 25, 2009

Wait, now I'm confused. Which .pac do I edit NOW? Because once I can properly edit a geno model, it won't really matter which one I base it off. For the time being, I want to edit a movement .pac so that Cosmic Geno (the one I have more experience with) will have the animations he's currently using, and the ones I'm editing, but I don't know which pac I'm supposed to be using. Model hacking is for much, much later.

IndigoFenix · Nov 25, 2009

I meant proportion sizes, which are tied to the FitMotion files. Use FitNessMotionEtc or FitLucasMotionEtc as a base, then create the animations in those. Although Cosmic Geno uses Toon Link's animations for now, if similar (or better) animations could be made with Ness/Lucas proportions, that would be best. That'll mean making new animations for pretty much all of his attacks, but let's start with the things we know Geno should definitely have - all his SMRPG Specials and a nice set of guns.

Before going overboard with animation editing, though, we should probably determine exactly what the other attacks should be. Since we've made the Genos without animation editing, that means we should probably get rid of everything that's less than ideal - no sense in staying attached to them, right?

Sterowent · Nov 25, 2009

...:::VILE:::... said:
Shadic, i can put that stage on any other stage if you please.

if you could do that...

i'd say this should definitely be part of b+'s official sets. i know they've already got the jungle, but this texture over it is way better than default.

Douhneill · Nov 25, 2009

So, start off with fit(Mother)MotionEtc... Alright. I'll have a few movement animations done too. I'll definitely steal some of TL's moves for certain moves (Item taunt, anyone?) But, as I said before, I'm going to need to redo them all once I complete the model hack. I just have two things to say now.

1) Guns are going to need some fancy modeling to work right, so for now, I'll just have him go through the motions properly (closest thing to the right thing until I can actually get the thing done).

2) I'm assuming that if one animation isn't as long as an attack is, it's just cut off. So, if that's the case, can I have the frame data for the attacks? I don't want to make them too long or too short (especially for moves like Geno beam)

*edit* Whoa, Brawlbox v0.60 is making me feel much, much better about the predicament I've placed myself in (as in it has a model editor), so if I can do what I hope I can do with the model, we might just have guns in my first make (of course, it might not be in the first one, but one of the later ones...)

IndigoFenix · Nov 25, 2009

Douhneill said:
So, start off with fit(Mother)MotionEtc... Alright. I'll have a few movement animations done too. I'll definitely steal some of TL's moves for certain moves (Item taunt, anyone?) But, as I said before, I'm going to need to redo them all once I complete the model hack. I just have two things to say now.

1) Guns are going to need some fancy modeling to work right, so for now, I'll just have him go through the motions properly (closest thing to the right thing until I can actually get the thing done).

2) I'm assuming that if one animation isn't as long as an attack is, it's just cut off. So, if that's the case, can I have the frame data for the attacks? I don't want to make them too long or too short (especially for moves like Geno beam)

*edit* Whoa, Brawlbox v0.60 is making me feel much, much better about the predicament I've placed myself in (as in it has a model editor), so if I can do what I hope I can do with the model, we might just have guns in my first make (of course, it might not be in the first one, but one of the later ones...)

Actually, the animation determines the length of an attack (the attack ends when the animation ends), although IASA data and hitboxes could be put at any point in the animation. The animations can also be sped up or slowed down in PSA, although it's a pain to get that done properly for attacks that require tricky timing. That being said, both Geno Beam and Geno Blast have the same frame data for charging (if I already know this, slowing down or speeding up the start-up is simple enough in PSA.)

Start up is 30 frames (the point where the uncharged Geno Beam can be released, or where the charging up starts)
First charge level Beam/Blast can be released 30 frames later (60)
Second charge level 30 frames later (90)
Maximum charge level 30 frames later (120) (if the attack is held past this point, it weakens)
Cool-down (fizzle) lasts for another 30 frames (150) (at which point the attack fires automatically)

The Blast part of Geno Blast lasts 60 frames, the start-up can be made a bit longer if you can get it to look like the SMRPG version (where he sucks in a bunch of lights then shoots a beam into the air before going into the 'kneeling' pose - I'll deal with the GFX. No need to keep the wild swinging in, since that's not what he did in SMRPG anyway.)

The guns don't matter as much, but they are currently based on the animations for ItemScopeRapid (jab/Finger Shot), ItemShoot (FTilt/Hand Gun), ItemScopeStart (first part of FSmash/Star Gun), and ItemScopeFire (second part of FSmash/Star Gun, which should have a bit of a cooldown time).

thanyou · Nov 25, 2009

Cosmic Geno 1.2's link is broken DX

Douhneill · Nov 25, 2009

alright, so I'll go over the parts that you edited (scope and such) so that I can see them, but I'll move them onto their actual animation slots when I post the file (or just send it to you, I'm not sure yet).

However, you probably won't hear of any progress until next Monday. I'm "grounded", so I won't be able to do much work at a given time until the weekend, when my parents are out of the house.

Meanwhile, keep up the good work!

Project GENO - MarioDK Demo out

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