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Sakurai doesn't deserve the bashing he gets for brawl.

Alphatron

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Even if you don't like brawl, that's a grand total of one game he made that you don't like. One friggin game.

Does anybody bash Miyamoto for Adventure of Link, Sunshine, or any other games he made with a split in the fanbase due to subjective entertainment? No.
 

Pichu4SSB4

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I admit Sunshine is my most disliked 3D Mario Platformer game, but it was pretty fun and should not be consindered different from the other Mario games. So yeah, this thread is useless.

inb4lock
 

deepseadiva

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Only one of these games mentioned was known by Nintendo to have a competitive fanbase. These are non-subjective issues we're pissed about.

Sakurai can go STFU and trip into a vat of boiling elephant semen and shredded glass, along with this thread.
 

Kuraudo

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Whether you like it or not, people are going to rip on Brawl or Sakurai. :\

Not me, but you get the idea. We can try, but most of the community stays divided.

/sigh

Can't believe this is still going on...
 

Alphatron

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Sunshine was amazing.

This thread sucks.
Erm. Never said I hated Sunshine. Not everyone liked it is what I mean to say. IME, its one of those love hate games.

Before this game was released, Sakurai was treated as a king. Now though, people don't even want him to touch the next game.

Also, AoL was a neat game too.
 

Big-Cat

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Erm. Never said I hated Sunshine. Not everyone liked it is what I mean to say. IME, its one of those love hate games.

Before this game was released, Sakurai was treated as a king. Now though, people don't even want him to touch the next game.

Also, AoL was a neat game too.
From what I can gather from the last couple of years, he was treated as king because most people weren't aware that Melee's depth was actually a fluke. Now, with Brawl where he had more time, people were expecting the sun and the moon from him what with the hype engine that was the Dojo and people's general expectations.

Competitive players were expecting for another in depth game like Melee with better balance, and just a bigger and better game(how to improve is totally subjective). What we got was a slow, glitchy game with a lack of hitstun and a horrid story mode that took up 60% of development and a disappointing online mode (I blame the Wii to a certain extent.

However, I was seeing this post by Onishiba the other day and it got me thinking, we really got a rushed game and the balance of the characters and lack of Mewtwo and Roy are the biggest pieces of evidence. I think this and Twilight Princess taught Nintendo to keep games under wraps until they are where things are finalized for the most part, but this is a double edged sword as people assume Nintendo's not making core games all that much.
 

MetalMusicMan

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Troll all you want, I agree with the OP that Sakurai hate is totally unwarranted.


Even with as big of a mess up as tripping, he still came up with the basic idea and core mechanics of Smash, he's still had 1,000 other fantastic ideas through the lifespan of the series, he still made 3 of the best games in history... and that makes him a genius in my book.

Brawl is a really, really, really good game, and all of the haters can die in a fire.
 

Kuraudo

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I think everyone can appreciate tripping, and the hilarity that comes with cursing Sakurai's name for it.

"SAKURAAAAIIIIII!!!" anyone?
 

MetalMusicMan

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See, it's the bolded part that was unnecessary, and one of many examples of what gives the Brawl community a bad name in the eyes of the Melee Smash players.
See, if you read above where the Melee people and other bashers said things WAY worse than what I said, you would see that this sort of idolized view of the "maturity" of the Melee community doesn't exist.

I think everyone can appreciate tripping, and the hilarity that comes with cursing Sakurai's name for it.

"SAKURAAAAIIIIII!!!" anyone?
Yeah, it's hilarious and as dumb as it is, it never gets old yelling Sakurai!!!! after you trip.

Tripping itself does get old, however, lol.
 

Prawn

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I think everyone can appreciate tripping, and the hilarity that comes with cursing Sakurai's name for it.

"SAKURAAAAIIIIII!!!" anyone?
Ask Atomsk if he appreciates tripping for losing him hundreds of dollars,

Psssst....I bet the answer is no
 

Mic_128

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See, it's the bolded part that was unnecessary, and one of many examples of what gives the Brawl community a bad name in the eyes of the Melee Smash players.
I'm say it's more on what gives the smash community in general a bad name.

Anyway, I think KumaOso hit the nail on the head. Melee was a more technical game, which was great and everyone was all hyped up for Brawl, expecting Melee but with more and better technical stuff and was given a game totally unlike their expectations.

Imagine your parents were buying you a car which you wanted for years. For the next few years they showed you pictures, took video of it in action, went into detail about all the parts, then you get the car and find the Ferarri drives like a golf cart. It's not what you expected, you wanted what you expected, so you blame who's fault it was, regardless of their past behaviour.
 

Kuraudo

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@ Prawn

He still cursed Sakurai's name, right? L0L0L0L0L

@ MetalMusicMan

I was at Genesis when many Melee players outraged against Brawl on the big screen. I was severely disappointed by the lack of maturity then. I know how bad the hostility can be between the games. And both sides are to blame. (Ugh... I dragged myself back in again.) You can be the better man here and not stoop to those levels or fuel the fire. Let it die out. Least in the end, while Melee players are *****ing, you can be the one that looked back to them and went,

"Sorry, what was that? I was too busy not giving a **** and just playing this game."

I don't idolize communities anymore. Just the games, friends, and the players I know and can respect.

[EDIT]

@ Mic_128

... I miss that game so much. D:
 

Big-Cat

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I don't mean to inturrupt but


Is nintendo still a succesful game company
In the financial sense, yes. Other than that, it's totally subjective. You can say that they failed in thinking well in advanced about technological advances like HD or making their online features up to par with the other consoles (I'd settle for tiered services) or making their console more powerful, but I'll cut them slack on that last one because the Wii was a huge risk for them.
 

Kuraudo

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An article on IGN made a very valid point, one that is disappointing, and yet not too worrisome at times.

And that point?

Nintendo has gotten lazy. Check it out for yourself, you'll see what I mean.
 

Nova9000

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mic_128 was on the money. Brawl was supposed to be everything in Melee evolved into a lot more. But, Nintendo will be Nintendo, so we have Brawl. It does seem that they're half-*** when it comes to recent games that were hyped to be so much more, but then when you have classics such as Melee, it becomoes more difficult to top that. Also take into consideration that others people play Brawl and Melee from a non-competitive standpoint, so from their standpoint Brawl is what they have been asking about. I play both Melee and Brawl, so it's not a bashing on my behalf, but hopefully they get it correct on the next installment.
 

Big-Cat

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That's what I was thinking about when I made that point.

The main concern is sacrificing presentation values for gameplay. Yeah, gameplay is the most important factor, but if it doesn't look all that enticing, no one will play it.
 

ETWIST51294

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Brawl is a really, really, really good game, and all of the haters can die in a fire.
u mad? Melee players don't even care about brawl anymore. We don't get mad off the fact that brawl sucks compared to melee, I mean, of couse we were disappointed, but thats not the reason. The reason is because since a sequel to our game came out our game gets automatically pronounced dead or outdated by scrubs. And the fact that scrubs confuse "better" and "new", brawl is new, not better. And lastly we get angered that brawl takes away from our community. Out of every 20 noobs that want to be a competitive smasher how many do you think will pick melee over brawl? Not many since brawl is new, easier, and has more characters which covers the fact that it's not better.

I personly don't hate sakurai, I hate brawl. Maybe on the next ssb sakurai will get lucky again and make a deep fighter.
 

ChuteTheMessenger

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Hey, I agree. Everyone keeps complaining about how sakurai messed up Brawl, but nobody thanks him for actually developing it
 

rhan

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He didn't just mess up Brawl.

He ****ed over the competitve players. Now that's 85% of this community that won't buy the next anything from Nintendo.
 

tocador

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I dont know about sakurai, but everyday i wake up i curse the god dam creator of paper mario wii, how could he ruin such a perfect game that were PM 64, and PMTYD???????
 

mars16

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WHAT THE **** WAS WRONG WITH PAPER MARIO WII

Im sorry but that game was cool, not as fun as thousand year door but it was alright.
The only thing I thought was wrong is that they got ride of the battle style.

And how did he mess up brawl
 

Nova9000

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Brawl wasn't a mess up. Brawl just doesn't appeal to competitive play like Melee does. That seems to be the big issue here...
 

G-Beast

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u mad? Melee players don't even care about brawl anymore. We don't get mad off the fact that brawl sucks compared to melee

And lastly we get angered that brawl takes away from our community.


Out of every 20 noobs that want to be a competitive smasher how many do you think will pick melee over brawl? Not many since brawl is new, easier, and has more characters which covers the fact that it's not better.
its crap like this that starts drama.

why cant the melee community accept brawl for what it is? it dosent matter whether or not you like it, saying that it sucks is asking for drama.. which we dont need.

the smash community as a whole are generally chill and really awesome to play with, the same cannot be said for other games like SF4, halo, counterstrike, World of Warcraft, and CoD. i think it is about time that everyone opened their eyes about the game they dislike, and accept it for what it is... and saying stuff like this is going to make it not chill at all

you don't like Brawl? dont play it, don't compare it to melee(because you really cant), and don't talk crap about it by coming into the brawl boards(or outraging at genesis) and saying "brawl sucks". at least just accept brawl for what it is... a truly unique game when compared to melee. if our community takes away from yours, then that means people enjoy playing brawl.... can you not respect that?

you don't like Melee? don't play it, don't compare it to brawl, and don't talk crap about it by going into the melee boards and saying "melee sucks". i know this is much less common then it is for in the brawl boards, but some people(like myself) don't really enjoy melee at all and prefer brawl wholly. but do you see me saying "melee sucks"? Nope, because i know that people DO like it and would likely get mad at me. I keep my opinions to myself unless people ask for them, and everyone should do the same if you ask me

I am aware that melee is more appealing to the general competitive player, and thats fine... some people prefer a faster paced fighter that does indeed require more skill to do the AT's of the game... which I, an exclusively brawl player(okay sometimes i do turn on melee for a few games but thats it), have accepted.

and quite honestly, i don't much care that the melee community takes away from brawl's community because they clearly either enjoy melee more then brawl, or enjoy both of them and want to play both of them.

most people will probably be thinking "so G-Beast, your saying you love brawl and don't enjoy Melee almost at all?" Yep. thats exactly what im saying. hate me all you want for it, i will only think less of you for bashing me about my personal preference(which im sure you won't care about but thats fine)

all I ask is that the two communities accept the two games for what they are and just move on.... if you don't like brawl then don't play it and don't get involved with the brawl community, if you don't like melee then don't play it and don't get involved with the melee community... because it's probably going to start a flame war and a drama fest regardless of which game is your preferred game. Neither game is better, because they are so different that they cannot be compared...

If you like both then thats cool play both, i respect you for being able to enjoy brawl and melee.

inb4lock
 

ETWIST51294

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WHAT THE **** WAS WRONG WITH PAPER MARIO WII

Im sorry but that game was cool, not as fun as thousand year door but it was alright.
The only thing I thought was wrong is that they got ride of the battle style.

And how did he mess up brawl
BECAUSE THEY TOOK SOMETHING GREAT AND MADE IT ********.

The story was great, but I didn't like the whole "being in another dimension" thing. If it played like the other two and your partners were normal mario creatures and it had the same story it would have been a excellent game. Everything is good about brawl except the gameplay.

edit: a question to g beast. Have you ever actually tried to LEARN how to play melee? The thing is that every melee player has tried to LEARN how to play brawl. And most of us did and got bored. About 70% of your community can't say that they have actually tried to learn how to play melee. So how would they know if they like brawl better if they never learned all of the ATs to actually play melee to its fullest?
 

G-Beast

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edit: a question to g beast. Have you ever actually tried to LEARN how to play melee? The thing is that every melee player has tried to LEARN how to play brawl. And most of us did and got bored. About 70% of your community can't say that they have actually tried to learn how to play melee. So how would they know if they like brawl better if they never learned all of the ATs to actually play melee to its fullest?

umm yeah i did actually, before you look at my join date, i was playing melee seriously in my region since it came out... when brawl came around i was astonished at how different it was, but after playing it for a couple weeks i found that i was enjoying it more then melee.
 

SmashChu

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From what I can gather from the last couple of years, he was treated as king because most people weren't aware that Melee's depth was actually a fluke. Now, with Brawl where he had more time, people were expecting the sun and the moon from him what with the hype engine that was the Dojo and people's general expectations.

Competitive players were expecting for another in depth game like Melee with better balance, and just a bigger and better game(how to improve is totally subjective). What we got was a slow, glitchy game with a lack of hitstun and a horrid story mode that took up 60% of development and a disappointing online mode (I blame the Wii to a certain extent.

However, I was seeing this post by Onishiba the other day and it got me thinking, we really got a rushed game and the balance of the characters and lack of Mewtwo and Roy are the biggest pieces of evidence. I think this and Twilight Princess taught Nintendo to keep games under wraps until they are where things are finalized for the most part, but this is a double edged sword as people assume Nintendo's not making core games all that much.
Remember, the game is not designed for any of you. Brawl is designed as a 4vs game and stages and items go into the balancing process. To us who played this way (which is most Smash fans), Melee was flat out broken. Too many characters ***** while a lot sucked. Brawl got it right and the characters are overall, better balanced.

The competitive community creates the broken game. If the game is balanced with all these elements in mind, it will only make sense that the game will change when elements are removed and rules skewed. The Metagame played in the competitive community is not the metagame that was designed for Brawl, so no one would have know who would be good in this environment, and neither would they care.

Now the fun stuff.

[in response to someone complaining about Brawl]
By the way. Soylent Green's made it into the water supply, and the Government is tracking your calls as well. Good ****. Paranoia. Nintendo hates you. Yeah guys...

That's why they gave you your most requested characters and spent millions licensing ridiculous amounts of remixed music for you. Good ****.

Hey guys... it's 1999. There's this new game called Third Strike out and it's trash. It's not as fast as ST, and it seems really turtle oriented with all the parry's and such. Plus Fireballs are garbage in this game. There are only three really amazing characters-- Chun, Yun, and Ken, and everybody else is kind of eh. In fact, Chun and Yun win EVERY tournament! I think Yun is a bit too cheap. Let's ban him guys? No really. I mean, EVERY tournament, everybody just uses Yun and it's free! What's the point of even trying to use the ideas we learned from Street Fighter II, He's Yun, and he's like Jesus... so there's no point. This game is so defense oriented I hate it! Somebody can just wait for you to do something and just Parry! It's Stupid as ****! You know what? I have an idea.

Yeah. It's a new day and age. Why don't we just go and take The STREET FIGHTER III engine, and just tweak the mechanics so it's exactly like ST! GENIUS! Let's just do that. **** parry's! I don't want to learn this new ****. Who want's to take the trouble of adapting to a new game. It's so slow and you need to use Normals. WHO NEEDS NORMAL?! I don't like new things! I'm 18! I want to be the same for the next 4 years playing this game!

ALL EVERYBODY DOES IS TURTLE! I WANT TO GO BACK TO ST! WHERE I CAN COMPLAIN HOW I CAN'T GET PAST SRKs BECAUSE THEY TAKE AWAY A QUARTER OF MY LIFE, AND FIREBALLS **** MY POOR HONDA! JESUS CHRIST THIS IS BULL****!


On the real though? This is SRK. when it comes to fighting games. You either Adapt or you move on, simple as that. A lot of those complaints I listed were legitimate complaints for 3s when it first came out(even though it was 10x an improvement over 2I). I played Brawl, Played Melee, Played 3s, Played ST, and now I play IV, and my advice? If you like a game, play it... if you don't, then do yourself a favor and shut the **** up, because no one wants to hear your stupid opinion on how you hate so called "Game that came out over a year ago, and gives my community a bad name, but really it has nothing to do with that and the reason everybody hates my community is people like me come over and act like Nintendo is communist russia, and they hate their people, and they want them all to suffer and die in cold scruffy bear skin hats with a hammer and sickle. We piss and moan about how brawl destroyed our community and get angry at the game and beat it like a redheaded stepchild for some of it's sloppy mechanics, failing to realize Melee at first had many sloppy mechanics when it was introduced back in 2001, until many people looked past those mechanics and enjoyed the game for what it was. We also fail to realize that we are just scapegoating, because most of us ignore the main tenants of a fighting game-- the idea behind adapting and mindgaming, and instead blame our losses on a character whose abilities we don't attempt to circumvent, but instead attempt to complain about, and ban because we can't get past him. "

It pisses me off so much... because I really enjoy those two games and people just ****ing ruined them for me. I expected a lot more from the Smash community and I kept seeing posts like that one. If you don't like the game, just kindly shut the **** up and go about your business. We don't hate you because of it. We hate you because you come here every so often and post childish rants on how it's the game's fault for everything, when really, it's the way you're acting towards it.

Jesus Christ people, it's 2009. Grow up, would you?
EDIT: Oh... and the reason I said that we hate you for that-- is because much of the Smash community attempts to diffuse **** by scapegoating Brawl. But even more than that, most of them complain about **** that's really their flaw as players, and yet they blame it on the game.

The tier list in that game is Biased( and I say this as a former Sonic player, who's character was moved up eight spots to mid[which I wanted to happen, but not for the reasons it did]), and has somewhat to do with matchups, but more so how to please the community and stop people from complaining. People ***** and moan about Brawl's effectiveness in the scene, yet fail to adapt. They write out long diatribes about how Brawl ruined the community, and how Melee should have just been the only game to have ever existed.

Oh, and Brawl +. That project is so ****ing ridiculous words can't even describe. Not once did the SF community, ever in anger of the game mechanics of any game go "Hey guys, lets go and change the mechanics back to ST mechanics and make it MORE competitive... feel me?" Alpha 3 was played as Alpha 3(including infinite's), 3s was played as 3s, and God **** it-- IV is played as IV. The immense amount of complaining from the Smash community is immature, and it doesn't make them look very intelligent when it's going on. In a few years, maybe they'll realize this in retrospect, but if not, then their community won't really take a step forward again. Just saying.
Both are from Shoruken boards. Sorry for the foul language.
 
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An article on IGN made a very valid point, one that is disappointing, and yet not too worrisome at times.

And that point?

Nintendo has gotten lazy. Check it out for yourself, you'll see what I mean.
Link. Too lazy. :V

@SmashChu: Why is Brawl+ so stupid? We don't like the game, so we aren't playing it; we're playing it the way we want to. That simple.
 

ETWIST51294

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I agree with everything that guy said.

But there is one thing that you wrote thats kind irking me. How is melee unbalanced when we STILL don't know who the best character is? M2K thinks its puff now and lots of people think its falco, some still thinks its fox, sheik, or marth. no one knows.. The low tiers under ylink do suck though...
 

rhan

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u mad? Melee players don't even care about brawl anymore. We don't get mad off the fact that brawl sucks compared to melee, I mean, of couse we were disappointed, but thats not the reason. The reason is because since a sequel to our game came out our game gets automatically pronounced dead or outdated by scrubs. And the fact that scrubs confuse "better" and "new", brawl is new, not better. And lastly we get angered that brawl takes away from our community. Out of every 20 noobs that want to be a competitive smasher how many do you think will pick melee over brawl? Not many since brawl is new, easier, and has more characters which covers the fact that it's not better.

I personly don't hate sakurai, I hate brawl. Maybe on the next ssb sakurai will get lucky again and make a deep fighter.
its crap like this that starts drama.
It's funny how you just proved his theory on how Brawlers get mad whenever Melee players bash it.

They must defend thier game. Way to be a statistic.


all I ask is that the two communities accept the two games for what they are and just move on.... if you don't like brawl then don't play it and don't get involved with the brawl community, if you don't like melee then don't play it and don't get involved with the melee community... because it's probably going to start a flame war and a drama fest regardless of which game is your preferred game. Neither game is better, because they are so different that they cannot be compared...

inb4lock
Q
F
E/T


I agree with everything that guy said.

But there is one thing that you wrote thats kind irking me. How is melee unbalanced when we STILL don't know who the best character is? M2K thinks its puff now and lots of people think its falco, some still thinks its fox, sheik, or marth. no one knows.. The low tiers under ylink do suck though...
LOL

YLink sucks ***. No joke. I main him and played him throughout my career.

It's more lilke..... The characters under Pika are garbage.
 

Frogles

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he deserves all the bashing he gets and more. the millions of little kids who play the game would not have noticed if the game ran on the ssb64 engine. they would not notice if the game had a reasonable amount of hitstun or if the melee mechanics returned. they would have enjoyed the game no matter what and the game would have sold exactly the same amount. there was no reason for him to make brawl such a BAD (and boring) game for competition.
 

ETWIST51294

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he deserves all the bashing he gets and more. the millions of little kids who play the game would not have noticed if the game ran on the ssb64 engine. they would not notice if the game had a reasonable amount of hitstun or if the melee mechanics returned. they would have enjoyed the game no matter what and the game would have sold exactly the same amount. there was no reason for him to make brawl such a BAD (and boring) game for competition.
You just read my ****ing mind. Casual gamers are stupid. As long as something looks cool the game is gonna sell. More characters, story mode, good graphics, and final smashes are noob heaven no matter how the physics engine works.
 

Frogles

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Remember, the game is not designed for any of you. Brawl is designed as a 4vs game and stages and items go into the balancing process. To us who played this way (which is most Smash fans), Melee was flat out broken. Too many characters ***** while a lot sucked. Brawl got it right and the characters are overall, better balanced.

The competitive community creates the broken game. If the game is balanced with all these elements in mind, it will only make sense that the game will change when elements are removed and rules skewed. The Metagame played in the competitive community is not the metagame that was designed for Brawl, so no one would have know who would be good in this environment, and neither would they care.

Now the fun stuff.





Both are from Shoruken boards. Sorry for the foul language.
****ing LOL @ your whole post. you've gotta be joking if you think most smash fans are gonna notice ANY sort of balance issue. their stupidity and ignorance is what started the whole "tiers don't exist" bull****. they just go into vs mode turn on items and play on temple. brawl is just as bad as melee is when it comes to balance even when you account for items and stupid stages. just try to tell me that sheik vs ganon is a fair matchup in any situation or that links final smash brings him up to meta knights level.

the game wasn't made with any sense of balance in mind which is why we have **** like grab releases, planking, momentum canceling, tripping, and all the other stupid **** that was put into brawl.
 
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