• Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!

    You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!

"common knowledge" that a lot of people don't know

Lovage

Smash Hero
Joined
Apr 15, 2007
Messages
6,746
Location
STANKONIA CA
idea taken from a thread about another game

what are simple aspects of the game or techniques that usually aren't written in guides or tutorials, but people are assumed to know

i'll start with an example

if fox shines you in the air and you touch the ground, all hitstun from the shine is canceled and you can dash/shield/roll etc. this doesn't apply to characters that fall from shine (fox, falco, y. link etc)
 

Fortress | Sveet

▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀
Joined
Dec 21, 2005
Messages
16,256
Location
Northern IL
roy's dair spike sweetspot is near the hilt, so to get the hit they have to be inside your body.
 

victra♥

crystal skies
Joined
Jan 20, 2007
Messages
14,275
Location
Edmonton
Slippi.gg
victra#0
lol arc.

If roy dairs sourspots you but you die, the game reads it as a meteor spike.
 

Juggleguy

Smash Grimer
Premium
Joined
Aug 16, 2005
Messages
9,354
Location
Ann Arbor, MI
Falcon must say "Kick!" in "Falcon Kick!" before hitting the lava on Brinstar in order to regain his double jump.
 

Pi

Smash Hero
Joined
Feb 5, 2008
Messages
6,038
Location
Lake Mary, Florida
parts of your characters body that stick out of the shield are vulnerable to being hit.

if you get hit out of your UB, you lose your jump, even if you use it off the ground (i think, also same with SB? i think?)

if a strategy really was that broken, you would see people who use it winning tournaments




tried to think of common **** i think some people don't know lol
 

keeper

Smash Champion
Joined
Jan 4, 2008
Messages
2,080
Location
Lake Oswego, OR
(*)=I'm not exactly sure, but I believe it to be true.

Foreword: Please see the links for reasoning, rationals, and for more information. I will update this whenever I have anything to add to it that hasn't been said or elaborated on previously. Feel free to correct me, just please provide more information so I can cite you with a link to your post, a possible gif or picture would be nice too. Thanks, and I hope you learn something. ^_^

-You can Powershield Mewtwo's disable.
-Grabs out prioritize everything [P1>P2>P3>P4 (I would hope most people that play competitively know this)]. FIXED BY "TRESCHIKON"
-Sheik's leg on the first hit of her downsmash is invincible.
-Fox's head is invincible during the first 9 frames of upsmash.
-Sheik's head and hands are invincible during the hitbox of her upsmash.
-Falco's legs are invincible during his downsmash.
-Samus is invincible on the start-up of her Screw Attack.
-Rest comes out on frame 1 and Jigglypuff has invincibility during the first 26 frames.
-Fox's shine's hitbox goes further behind him than in front of him.
-You have 2 frames to do a SHFF Missile with Samus.
-When doing Fox and Falco's up-b at an exactly vertical (up) trajectory, touching the stage will make you turn around from whichever direction you were initially facing.
-The first frame of every dodge leaves you vulnerable (as well as a certain amount of ending ones).
-After certain percents while being chaingrabbed, you should not DI away, but instead try to attack out. EX: Shine out of being grabbed when a Fox is chain grabbing you as Fox instead of DIing away once you get to about 35%+.
-Raptor Boost backs you kind of go back from where you were standing. Ex: You're standing in front of Fox facing away, you do Raptor Boost away, you'll hit him from behind him with the hit.
-When dash dancing, there is as least 1 frames (maybe more, I'm not sure) when you turn around that will have your character going the opposite direction from which they are facing (kind of like a moonwalk, only you really can't see it). I can prove this, assuming it isn't accepted knowledge.
-Samus' super grapple goes higher than Screw Attack.
-(*)Doing an aerial "A" attack in the air gives you more control over your character's aerial movement. FIXED BY "TRESCHIKON"
-If hit by another attack while you are flying/moving from the air after being hit by another, the "new" attack that hit you will override the other one and you will now move how the "new" attack would (and is) sending you. EX: You get rested then you get hit by a jab. You will experience the "knockback" of the jab and be saved (hooray).
-Frames 18 to 36 are the ones when Sheik is both visible and invincible. 36 to 57 are when she's invisible (and invincible) and she's vincible again on frame 58.
-You can roll with c-stick while holding a shield button and sideways direction on the c-stick the first frame possible after landing. You can roll with it anyway and even use c-stick to jump out of shield.
-Grabbing Jigglypuff while she's in the air will give her all 5 mid-air jumps back (including Falcon Dive and Dark Dive). Same with Kirby.
-Pikachu has the strongest upsmash in the game, then Sheik (at the tip), then Fox(?). I just remember specifically that Pikachu's is the best.
-With the exception of uptilt, all of Marth's tilts, and his jab, hit slightly below him as well. Thus, making really good edgeguards.
-Roy can kill Jigglypuff at 0% with a reverse Blazer.
-Pushing any button except jump, left, or right, while in shine does absolutely nothing. Hence why some people waveshine by dragging their thumb across A while going from B to X (though I just tap B then Y).
-Randall shows up on the left from second intervals 5 down to 0 on the left when the clock is on 0, 2, and 4. Same for the right, except it's 1, 3, and 5.
-Falco's shine hitbox is smaller than Fox's. Though Falco's extends further vertical (*).
-Fox can do ledgehop reverse triple laser.
-Samus is the only character with a shorter overall animation for her dash grab than standing among the entire cast. APPARENTLY YOSHI DOES TOO. YOU HAPPY JEFF?
-Generally grabs last two frames. So far, in my observations, the dash grab comes out about 1-5 frames later. I haven't looked into it enough to create something with lower/upper extremities and with quartiles (Box and Whisker Plot).


SOURCES:
Juce
Aftermath
OMGage
WA smashers such as Toph, Vista and Bladewise. Not Eggz 'cause he's a ****.
Mew2King's Frame Data Page
Agent Iron/Iron Dragon (Forward's brother)
Magus
My own research. I then either test the crap out of my ideas or pitch them to Juce, OMGage (Peach Masta on SWF), Aftermath that confirm them or think about them with me (because they're both really smart and stuff).
 

INSANE CARZY GUY

Banned via Warnings
Joined
May 14, 2008
Messages
6,915
Location
Indianapolis
pikachu's up-tilt has a weakened sourspot that changes the % of kill on jigglypuff by 8% it's the very edge of his tail all the way.... Wait no one knows that but me also it was decayed so go check that out on yoshi's story if you don't believe me on the up-tail sourspot.
 

The Irish Mafia

Banned via Administration
Joined
Nov 19, 2008
Messages
4,487
Location
cping you to Mute at a MDZ tourney
If you get shined on uneven ground (the slants on the edges of Yoshi's / near the center of DK64 /etc) the hitstun is reduced by 2/3
same **** applies if it's done on a stage moving downwards, the reason why you can't drillshine on Corneria
I suppose this info overlaps with lovages' post but Idk the slant stuff is **** if peach does a suprise dsmash
 

DoH

meleeitonme.tumblr.com
Joined
Jul 1, 2004
Messages
7,618
Location
Washington, DC
Peach's downtilt not only spikes, but it's a meteor smash. If you kill someone with her down throw it's a meteor smash as well.
 

-ACE-

Gotem City Vigilante
Joined
Sep 25, 2007
Messages
11,536
Location
The back country, GA
This should be stickied and the OP should be organized and updated with new info imo

For Ganon: when timed properly...
Ledgedash > jab is invincible
Ledgehop > jab is invincible
Ledgehop > grab is invincible

Oh and if jiggs isn't top tier, she's probably the highest of the high tiers.
 

INSANE CARZY GUY

Banned via Warnings
Joined
May 14, 2008
Messages
6,915
Location
Indianapolis
yeah but if someone didn't know oh crap they will sound so dumb. But if 2 falcon punches collide in a match quickly quit the match and turn off off your melee holder. That happened in a match vs my sister it was for lols my that wasn't planed and we were both afraid on chrismas eve.
 

victra♥

crystal skies
Joined
Jan 20, 2007
Messages
14,275
Location
Edmonton
Slippi.gg
victra#0
As peach, you can't dsmash falco while he's charging dsmashing. I guess has to do with falco's legs being invincible during dsmash.
 

keeper

Smash Champion
Joined
Jan 4, 2008
Messages
2,080
Location
Lake Oswego, OR
As peach, you can't dsmash falco while he's charging dsmashing. I guess has to do with falco's legs being invincible during dsmash.
That would make sense, yes.

Is there a video showing this? I'm pretty skeptical.

  • If a stale laser is powershielded it can hit multiple people.
  • Characters with charge moves (Samus and DK), lose their charge if they are hit out of their upB.
Uhm, well, the only "proof" I have is talking to Eggz about it who said he learned it from Silent Wolf. The best example of it in use I have is when you wall jump as anyone, do a move and you'll be able to move more. Like if you wall jump as Sheik then hit bair/fair or whatever and hold toward the stage, you'll land a lot closer to the stage/be closer than otherwise. However, this could also deal with ending the animation of pushing off the wall sooner to give you more time to influence your character toward the stage. I'll go put an asterisk towards all my bits I'm skeptical/others are skeptical to.
cheers
 

TresChikon

Smash Lord
Joined
Jun 25, 2009
Messages
1,730
Location
@ the barnyard
-Grabs out prioritize everything (I would hope most people that play competitively know this).
Unless you have port priority, grabs do not out prioritize confusion.

-(*)Doing an aerial "A" attack in the air gives you more control over your character's aerial movement.
That is false, Magus proved this incorrect with a gif.

It only works with a few attacks i.e. Sheik, Mario, and Doc's fair. I'm not sure if there's anymore.
Nah. It definitely doesn't do anything. Same with Doc's f-air, Zelda's f-air, etc. People just like to think that they do.

The images at 21% are the recovery without using the f-air, and the ones at 23% are with the rising f-air on each jump. As you can see, at equal points in time Sheik is in the exact same locations for both.

Uhm, well, the only "proof" I have is talking to Eggz about it who said he learned it from Silent Wolf. The best example of it in use I have is when you wall jump as anyone, do a move and you'll be able to move more. Like if you wall jump as Sheik then hit bair/fair or whatever and hold toward the stage, you'll land a lot closer to the stage/be closer than otherwise. However, this could also deal with ending the animation of pushing off the wall sooner to give you more time to influence your character toward the stage. I'll go put an asterisk towards all my bits I'm skeptical/others are skeptical to.
cheers
The only reason why attacking after a WJ allows you more movement is due to the fact that a WJ has IASA frames that allow its animation to be canceled by an attack and thus shorten the animation.
 

Vsin

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Feb 21, 2009
Messages
162
- Randall shows up within a specific pattern of time (I can't remember exactly what it is).
- M2's Disable is a projectile (can be reflected, powershielded, and I'm pretty sure it can also be canceled with a hit)
- M2's confusion is NOT a reflector, and when you get "hit" by it you can do an aerial immediately after it ends (think Brawl hitstun).
- M2's Fthrow hits multiple people.
- Falco's lasers have a MUCH longer flight time than Fox's (useless knowledge, but hey it's knowledge).

Well, that's all I can think of.
 

TresChikon

Smash Lord
Joined
Jun 25, 2009
Messages
1,730
Location
@ the barnyard
Foxes who shine while recovering:

It does essentially nothing for recovery besides stall. It has absolutely ZERO effect on horizontal momentum. It isn't useful for stopping vertical momentum either since jumping is more effective for downward momentum, and for dying off the top it actually launches you upwards instead of stopping you if used immediately after the hitstun ends. Once you're 2 frames beyond when the hit stun would normally end you won't die by passing through the blast zone either. In the event you skim just along the top blastline, if you were to double jump or shine on the 1st or 2nd actionable frame after the stun you would actually die whereas you wouldn't had you done nothing at all.

Double jumping has an instantaneous effect on your horizontal momentum, so when dealing with the side blastline, DJing immediately will allow you to survive a few percent higher than shining/shine DJing/air control would.

Regarding the boost you get by using shine at the end of hit stun, it gives you a vertical boost proportional to the amount of your original vertical knockback (DI included, so you'll get more of a boost off say Marth's f-smash by DIing up/towards than no DI at the same %). It also carries over into your jump if you DJ. The thing is though, you also get it by DJing, up b-ing, forward b-ing, or airdodging anyway (may be different for other chars), and since the shine does nothing for your horizontal momentum you still drift away and lose enough horizontal distance to negate the extra vertical distance you may get with it because of his fall speed.

In the end, immediately DJing/full shine->DJ/shine->immediate JC all work out to pretty much the exact same recovery distance, though shining will get you killed if you barely recover from stun the moment before reaching the side blast line as opposed to DJing. It will also take slightly longer to make it back if you add a shine in too obviously.
I stalk Magus
 

keeper

Smash Champion
Joined
Jan 4, 2008
Messages
2,080
Location
Lake Oswego, OR
Unless you have port priority, grabs do not out prioritize confusion.

That is false, Magus proved this incorrect with a gif.


The only reason why attacking after a WJ allows you more movement is due to the fact that a WJ has IASA frames that allow its animation to be canceled by an attack and thus shorten the animation.
Okay, so basically what I was thinking about the wall thing. I'll edit my first post and add stuff to it instead of just posting more and more so mine are less scattered.

Edit: People shine after getting hit thinking it'll make them live more?
Edit2: I really just want to help people with knowledge things I've picked up over the last year. I wish I had an action replay.
 
Joined
Jun 27, 2005
Messages
10,463
Location
the west
Also, you can DI off of Shy-Guys on Yoshi's Story. SDI maybe? idk, but it's maaad helpful
i agree, skip to like 2:52 lol
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LD_x...81DFC2D6&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=17

Turn canceling - i see a lot of people do this when they try to turn around jc grab, the jump cancels the turn animation, most noticeable with dk if you want to see it real quick.

crouch cancel shielding - i never see people use this and they should. its very useful when you put out an attack and know youre going to get hit because it missed. the shield makes you keep your ground more so than otherwise and enables you to successfully cc and quickly punish at higher percents. plus for characters like samus and bowser you can use this tactic then up b out of shield effectively at higher percent after being hit. the shield really helps because it comes out instantly. plus if you get hit to the ground which can happen often too you just tech if youre trying to shield. this makes fox's nair useless other than that single hit unless you hit them while theyre in the air along with many other aerials. playing vs people who actually do this is really gay lol.

as for the aerial bringing your further towards the stage. after being hit out with momentum going outwards, if you jump and do an aerial as soon as you can it really does seem to cancel some of that stored momentum. its noticeable with fox dair and even his uair. if you dont have momentum to be canceled it has no effect.
 

keeper

Smash Champion
Joined
Jan 4, 2008
Messages
2,080
Location
Lake Oswego, OR
i agree, skip to like 2:52 lol
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LD_x...81DFC2D6&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=17

Turn canceling - i see a lot of people do this when they try to turn around jc grab, the jump cancels the turn animation, most noticeable with dk if you want to see it real quick.

crouch cancel shielding - i never see people use this and they should. its very useful when you put out an attack and know youre going to get hit because it missed. the shield makes you keep your ground more so than otherwise and enables you to successfully cc and quickly punish at higher percents. plus for characters like samus and bowser you can use this tactic then up b out of shield effectively at higher percent after being hit. the shield really helps because it comes out instantly. plus if you get hit to the ground which can happen often too you just tech if youre trying to shield. this makes fox's nair useless other than that single hit unless you hit them while theyre in the air along with many other aerials. playing vs people who actually do this is really gay lol.

as for the aerial bringing your further towards the stage. after being hit out with momentum going outwards, if you jump and do an aerial as soon as you can it really does seem to cancel some of that stored momentum. its noticeable with fox dair and even his uair. if you dont have momentum to be canceled it has no effect.
1.) Ideally, couldn't you just pivot the grab?

2.) I don't think I understand, maybe I'm just tired. I'm interested though.

3.) Yeah, that's what I notice you and Shane doing a lot. It could just be something psychological though, but I have no proof either way. I'll try testing it when I wake up. ^_^
 
Joined
Jun 27, 2005
Messages
10,463
Location
the west
1.) Ideally, couldn't you just pivot the grab?

2.) I don't think I understand, maybe I'm just tired. I'm interested though.

3.) Yeah, that's what I notice you and Shane doing a lot. It could just be something psychological though, but I have no proof either way. I'll try testing it when I wake up. ^_^
1. you could just turn around grab without jump canceling it and have no problem. although even if you arent trying to grab directly behind you you may turn cancel when you try to dash the other way and grab. you just have to time it right to avoid this.

2. probably

3. im almost positive this is how it works. after doing it both ways (with and without) for so long i can definitely see the difference.
 

Lovage

Smash Hero
Joined
Apr 15, 2007
Messages
6,746
Location
STANKONIA CA
ledgejumps (pressing y or x on the ledge) are slightly different below 100 and above 100. besides usually being slower, in falcon's case, his >100 ledgejump goes slightly higher. you can see this by ledgejumping on kongo jungle over 100 (and holding anything except forward) and perfect landing on the platform, where ledgejumping under 100 you don't get to the platform
 
Top Bottom