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vs falco

Hax

Smash Champion
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discuss the falco matchup, share tips/tricks etc

*when falco is on the ledge and ledgehop double-laser's, either FJ bair/dair or crouch -> dtilt (former method is preferred bc they have less heights at which they can laser to block it)

*weak knee -> uair is a good edgeguard but DON'T BE RECKLESS with the knee or you'll miss and get spiked

*practice powershielding lasers; i plan on doing so before pound

i'll add more eventually if i see people are interested and this sparks tips/tricks being shared. if doesn't get good responses then **** it
 

Diakonos

Smash Lord
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Upair out of shield is so so good against Falco. Knowing when to roll is important too.

Uptilt is a reliable edgeguard against him if you have time to position yourself, because it's not techable if you do it late enough.
 

j00t

Smash Champion
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Uair out of shield? I figured that it would trade with dair at best.

Speaking of uair, when falco does his gay ledgehop double laser thing, can't you crouch -> sh uair? I haven't even thought about it until now. Seems like it could be effective, but I don't know if the uair would get hit by the first laser or not.
 

TheManaLord

Smash Hero
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Jun 4, 2006
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nair over short lasers

raptor boost under high lasers

mash DI against falco, it helps escape shine combos and mixes up your di for you (just mash left and right you will sdi easily out of his ****)

running powershield to sh nair is like the best thing u can do if your close and get powershield

uair oos catches falco in any hop

throwing him off edge leads to really easy edgeguards

tech chases at low percents with dthrow and uthrow

mid percents at edge dthrow will **** falco
-if he dont di or di in you can ftilt and put him in a bad position
-if he di away hes falco bad recovery ledgehog and retaliate to how he recovers

higher percents uthrow (100~ give or take a bit) to fsmash with no di or behind di away di knee or uair

at 0% nair and knee lead to grab

set up platform traps, get falco on platform and use dsmash to cover all tech options

edge traps with uthrow to dsmash charge also at lower percents is best

up b oos not too bad

after being interupted by laser in your short hob double jump and dair straight down usually where the falco will be or just dj away onto a platform or something

use buffered rolling (hold shield after l cancel and use cstick left or right) after doing attacks you think can get shielded or punished

stay in his face only way to win

learn to read missed techs and punish... easiest punish and best

usmash oos is fun sometimes but never use against someone with good reaction time/di

utilt is good edgeguarding but there are better methods

recover high falco will **** you if you try to sweetspot. recover to platforms and once he starts reading that pull back to ledge or keep going because falcon lives so long its worth taking hits to get on stage as opposed to dying going for the ledge

after a techjump at the ledge do bair during the iasa frames and pul back towards stage then up b back onto stage

idk falco is gay nothing really works hes the 2nd best char in the game (jiggs being first) u cant play defensive or aggresive youjust have to get hits and get him off stage with reliable combos always finish with knee

uair ***** falcos recoveries, if hes low sh fast fall dj uair if hes out sh dj uair its good

use uair all the time
 

TheManaLord

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forgot this one


if they're above you on a platform sh dair hits them and can lead to good knee combos at interesting percents or uair (most platforms, excluding dl64)

if they don't di just let them land again (at lower percents) for another read


use drop zone off of platforms, drop zone uair to regrab is good at mid low low mid percents


i'm just trying to spill my guts on falco bc i hate playing against falco i get no experience v him outside of tournament and get ***** i almost do better using zelda (sh oos to double fair or bair over and over again)

does anyone have any actually good stage suggestions using the new stage list? what should we strike down to? counterpicks? if we pick cruise theyll go fox (what falco doesnt have a fox)

theres just not a lot of good things v falco i hate him!!!! tell me more everyone
 

Hax

Smash Champion
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"if they're above you on a platform sh dair hits them and can lead to good knee combos at interesting percents or uair (most platforms, excluding dl64)"

that is ****ing ill, i usually use usmash to hit through platforms but i will definitely substitute it with this now. i would imagine on lower platforms (yoshi's, possibly pokemon stadium) a getup attack would hit you out of it and in such cases usmash is better, but on say, battlefield this might work. lmk more about this

if they DI the dthrow off a platform in then single-hit nair regrab > uair regrab but yeah

also you're funny lol, fox is easily the best. then falco then jiggs
 

TheManaLord

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usmash is good but you def cover more area with dair and its way more reliable and more stun. usmash is better for certain %'s tho imo bc dair is more easily DI'ed.

the get up attack is an issue i will have to look into, i'll do some tests now

and idk man jiggs is just so easy to play and clearly dominating all others because she cant be comboed amazing priority infinite recovery easy combos tons of OHKO setups OHKO move thatcomes out in 1 frame and so much more she ducks under grabs into OHKO she has grabs that lead to ohko just so good

thenf alco because he doesnt need mind games and is truly an easy *** character if you have any brains/tech skill i mean come on its so easy to approach shield pressure combo like crazy shoot lasers i mean lasers? its ridiculous a projectile with no lag that stuns and can combo WHAT ugh

then fox bc hes fox seriously hes always been fox its just that puff hasnt been puff and falco havent been falco until these days

sheik because above

marth bc above

rest who cares


edit: i dont use punctuation much when im stoned as **** lol will edit tomorrow
 

j00t

Smash Champion
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North AL
usmash is good but you def cover more area with dair and its way more reliable and more stun. usmash is better for certain %'s tho imo bc dair is more easily DI'ed.

the get up attack is an issue i will have to look into, i'll do some tests now

and idk man jiggs is just so easy to play and clearly dominating all others because she cant be comboed amazing priority infinite recovery easy combos tons of OHKO setups OHKO move thatcomes out in 1 frame and so much more she ducks under grabs into OHKO she has grabs that lead to ohko just so good

thenf alco because he doesnt need mind games and is truly an easy *** character if you have any brains/tech skill i mean come on its so easy to approach shield pressure combo like crazy shoot lasers i mean lasers? its ridiculous a projectile with no lag that stuns and can combo WHAT ugh

then fox bc hes fox seriously hes always been fox its just that puff hasnt been puff and falco havent been falco until these days

sheik because above

marth bc above

rest who cares


edit: i dont use punctuation much when im stoned as **** lol will edit tomorrow
That'd be nice. :p

I'd just uair if I'm underneath someone... it covers more options but can't lead into amazing combos most of the time...

I like your reasoning for Fox... so pro.
 

-ACE-

Gotem City Vigilante
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if you shield a sh dair pillar attempt and shield di the first shine backwards and shieldgrab immediately after, you will grab falco unless he waveshines back or fulljumps out of shine.
 

BigD!!!

Smash Lord
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dair under plats for a tech chase works really well, it only works on platforms as low as stadium and story. the get up attack thing is an issue, but it you need to predict where theyll tech to really use the dair well anyway so if you expect a missed tech or get up attack or w/e then just up smash

its the same as using knee to hit people on the platforms without going above them, which is also really good, especially vs falco when you can edgeguard him so well

if youre playing a really close match and you get a grab on falco in the middle of the stage and you both know that if you guess right in the tech chase youll win, they usually tech away so go knee them
 

ArcNatural

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Quick turn sheilds to bair are great for just outspacing Falco's approaches and bairing them in the face.

I think quick turn shields are important, maximizing space and shield time is very important vs falco.

Powershielding I think is the next step for Falcon in this matchup. If you could powershield like Armada this matchup would change drastically.

Powershielding shffl attacks for grabs is just ****. Zoso can do this pretty well and I think it's not as hard as people believe it is.

Nairing over lasers is good too.

Edit:
I've always felt that if you time it right you can always fulljump falling bair a dbl laser attempt from the ledge. I'm pretty good with fox at shine spiking falcos out of it. I personally wouldn't try any other move since none of them put Falco off the stage without a jump. I don't see the point in upair/dair/knee in this situation ever, none can be spaced like bair can to avoid retaliation and have better rewards. Falco's spotdodge is too gay for dair (unless you hit them in the air which bair would of been better), knee is way too exposed, and upair is ok but not as good as bair.

dthrow -> ftilt creats easy knees imo.

Any popup to fsmash is horribly underused by anyone who isn't Darkrain. Seriously it's soo good, better than knee especially at low % where it's hard to hit the knee.

I think bair under platforms in terms of getting Falco off the stage is better than upair, unless you aren't good at dashing out of a backwards l-cancel.

I think when falco's land on the top middle platform (or any character really), baiting by jumping to waveland on a side platform to a shffl attack in between platforms is horribly underused. Knee,bair will go through the platform and you will land on the other side platform, while dair and upair will either have to be l-canceled on the top platform or edgecanceled. Dair isn't that good since the hitbox doesn't come out (if it does it's really really hard to get out in that situation). But knee to knee IMO is most common in this situation. Try it.
 

JPOBS

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SDI his dairs at low percents so that the shine misses and you can grab him if you're quick or get a sheild up or just run away.

also this

I think when falco's land on the top middle platform (or any character really), baiting by jumping to waveland on a side platform to a shffl attack in between platforms is horribly underused. Knee,bair will go through the platform and you will land on the other side platform, while dair and upair will either have to be l-canceled on the top platform or edgecanceled. Dair isn't that good since the hitbox doesn't come out (if it does it's really really hard to get out in that situation). But knee to knee IMO is most common in this situation. Try it.
sounds incredible
 

`DNS`

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Once he gets offstage hit him til he dies..
he has like no recovery, just hit him off somehow and don't let him back on
it's already been said but (dropzone) weak knee gimp is too good vs falco
 

BigD!!!

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arc maybe its just me but i have a ton of trouble hitting falco with bair when he double lasers from the ledge, but dair is easy cause i can just go over the lasers
 
D

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if you see Falco coming in for a d-air, dash a tiny bit before you shield so that Falco is off-center and makes it harder for them to shield pressure you, even better if you shield DI
 

Hax

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off-center? as in you **** up their spacing by dashing towards them?

BigD, if anything you can fj dj bair and it'll work. idk, fjdj while facing the stage just puts falco in a bad position when he's on the ledge

apparently dthrow ftilt is good vs him if you can't dropzone

on yoshi's, fj knee through the top platform is ****. you don't go through it; dair also doesn't go through if you do it early enough
 

ArcNatural

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arc maybe its just me but i have a ton of trouble hitting falco with bair when he double lasers from the ledge, but dair is easy cause i can just go over the lasers
you also risk much by doing the dair if you miss since you have to be close to Falco to get it to hit. You can't having that much moving momentum in this case.

You can do what Hax said, another thing to consider is you can DI the first laser up and away and bair again. I do this with Marth all the time but it sounds reasonable that you can do it with Falcon too.

I like DIing lasers up when I try to shffl over them, lets you occasionally throw out the first hit of upair/nair again too. If you time it right and smash DI the laser it's gauranteed.
 

TheManaLord

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fulljump nair to cover more options and fast fall if he does low EHDL

nair covers way more space and sends him out. which is what you want.

bair works also but not as long
 

BigD!!!

Smash Lord
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yeah thats how i try to do it, but i dunno i just always get hit in the feet by a laser
 

PEEF!

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I think it depends on what the falco does after the lasers. What he does the first time is usually what he will do every time.

I play falco and do the lasers from the side, and I almost always jab or shine after the second laser. Alot of falcos grab after lasers because its good. I think if you cc the lasers to jab you will have the frame advantage in most situations. This could be really good because gentleman will put falco offstage from there almost always. As falco it isn't hard to beat the double lasers because I can CC shine them. Your jab isn't too much slower so that really should work unless the falco shines after his lasers.

Other than that the DJ bair should work almost always but youll have to see it coming. If you're a little late they can spotdodge shine.

This might work....hm. What about as soon as the lasers almost get you, roll towards the ledge to dodge them and then attack from behind?
 

DUB

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usmash oos is fun sometimes but never use against someone with good reaction time/di
Better hope Scar doesn't see that.


I like KJ as the CP in this matchup too. The odd shaped ground gives Falco a tougher time being precise with lasers.
 

Ryzol_

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dair under plats for a tech chase works really well, it only works on platforms as low as stadium and story.
It works on battlefield too. You need to be faster. Also if you are fast you can sh knee a missed tech from underneath a battlefield platform.

Quick turn sheilds to bair are great for just outspacing Falco's approaches and bairing them in the face.

I think quick turn shields are important, maximizing space and shield time is very important vs falco.
What's a quick turn shield?
 

legion598

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I cant seem to stop falcos Dair I try my best to Nair it or Uair it and it hardly ever trades hits and never hits through it. also if he whiffs the Dair and I try to grab I get shined most of the time what the hell is that? my question is what can I do to avoid/punish falcos Dair?
 

tubes

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I cant seem to stop falcos Dair I try my best to Nair it or Uair it and it hardly ever trades hits and never hits through it. also if he whiffs the Dair and I try to grab I get shined most of the time what the hell is that? my question is what can I do to avoid/punish falcos Dair?
If you can't punish the Dair, Pressure the Dair and Punish what comes after. For instance, if you know if you try to punish his Dair the Falco will shine, stomp the shine.
 

BigD!!!

Smash Lord
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oh ryzol short hop knee hits on battlefield plats in any situation so long as you space the knee horizontally correctly

i dont think ive ever tried the dair there actually, i just assumed it didnt work because the knee is so finicky
 

telemaster

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near the edge if you cant get a dropzone (low% on falco), dthrow->angle down ftilt might be worth considering.

i've also seen darkrain throw->gentlemen falcos in the same situation described above, though i think the falcos were di'ing into the stage.

what ever happened to nair oos vs laser approach? i feel that would be better than uair oos vs laser approach, it gives falcon more horizontal movement. sigh, i never really got the timing down.

also, i always thought how g-reg did dthrow->turn around knee to punish tech towards you was stylish.

and nair->run off knee from edge or platform is manly, seems pretty popular recently
 

Juggleguy

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- When you uthrow Falco onto a platform at high %, FJ DJ knee the backwards tech and fastfall past the platform... this gets the kill for SS literally 90% of the time I see him try it.
- After a mid-high % uthrow without DI, dtilt or down angled ftilt! If you intercept their first tech attempt then it leads to a free knee... severely underused imo
- Remind yourself to use utilt, it's one of the most practical edgeguards and ***** Falco's up-B and I never see it used that much.
- When they're lying on a platform, FJ DJ then immediately fastfall back through the platform to bait a get up attack, then punish hard with a SH knee / usmash / whatever
- If they illusioned onto the stage and you missed the initial edgeguard, run all the way up and SHFFL a knee to punish sidesteps (so many Falcos do this).
 

TheManaLord

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always recover high to platforms or on stage. take the hits, take the %. going to the ledge it's really easy for falco to kill you...
but of course sometimes you'll be in a situation where it's best to go to theledge. in that case try to reverse your up b if your close for better tech chance and sweetspot. right when you grab on that ledge ledgehop uair itll catch whatever he was trying unless he's mid stage

uair oos into double jump dair ***** because the low stun at lower percents v falco he'll probably try to go up in the air for you but your dj dair knocks him down

i hate falco

every trick / tip in here are all really situational. we have no solid foundations =(

chaingrab him if he DI's in or doesn't DI uthrow at higher percents haha **** falco
 

Hax

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manipulating platforms is really good vs falco; jumping onto pforms above you really scares him into jumping which works cause if you run off he's above you, which is what you want
 

tubes

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manipulating platforms is really good vs falco; jumping onto pforms above you really scares him into jumping which works cause if you run off he's above you, which is what you want
Could you explain why you want him above you? It kinda makes sense when I think about it, but I'm not sure I fully understand.
 

BigD!!!

Smash Lord
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uair works well enough, and you dont have to maneuver around lasers

anything to put falco out of his comfort zone so that you can scare him into getting grabbed or kneed or something
 

chiZZLeSD

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Could you explain why you want him above you? It kinda makes sense when I think about it, but I'm not sure I fully understand.
because when you come back and uair/usmash them you put them in the air, usually DI-ing towards you. or you could short hop the stomp or something. bottom line is, against falco, its bad to be on the same level as him, because he'll just laser the **** out of you. obviously you dont want to be directly below him becuase he'll just ff through the plaform for a dair, but him being on a platform and you a couple steps away is good
 
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