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BrawllWall Beta - Part of OpenSA2

Jack Kieser

Smash Champion
Joined
Jan 11, 2008
Messages
2,961
Location
Seattle, WA
As of right now, there's no way to just outright delete planes, is there? Because I'm trying to make a stage that has a Halberd-like main platform (you can go through it upwards, but can't fall through downwards) and I need to get rid of some stuff to do it.
 

Dantarion

Smash Champion
Joined
May 21, 2007
Messages
2,492
Location
Santa Barbara, CA
works for me

EDIT: skyworld still isnt working properly, the platforms all pile up on each other at teh origin
Im going to add support to toggle the visibility of objects so that you can hide all except for the one you are editing. I believe the skyworld ones are like that because they are instanced to the proper positions.

oops, dp
 

NAMQ_DrunkeNFeasT

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Dec 28, 2007
Messages
429
Location
Puerto Rico
Im going to add support to toggle the visibility of objects so that you can hide all except for the one you are editing. I believe the skyworld ones are like that because they are instanced to the proper positions.

oops, dp
Plz dant, reply this to me :(

can we be able to edit Death Boundries and annything related to the Stage edit.pac's?
 

Amazing Ampharos

Balanced Brawl Designer
Writing Team
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Jan 31, 2008
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Kansas City, MO
Quite a few positions (such as both death positions, camera limits, and smashball spawn positions) seem to always display their Y coordinate as 50 instead of the proper value.

Also, does anyone know why there are two different points for Ice Climbers, Olimar, and Lucario final smashes? What's the difference between the "E" points and the "N" points?

I want to stress again how awesome this is, and I look forward to any and all future developments on it.
 

Dantarion

Smash Champion
Joined
May 21, 2007
Messages
2,492
Location
Santa Barbara, CA
Plz dant, reply this to me :(

can we be able to edit Death Boundries and annything related to the Stage edit.pac's?
Idunno, I haven't looked at those files.

Quite a few positions (such as both death positions, camera limits, and smashball spawn positions) seem to always display their Y coordinate as 50 instead of the proper value.

Also, does anyone know why there are two different points for Ice Climbers, Olimar, and Lucario final smashes? What's the difference between the "E" points and the "N" points?

I want to stress again how awesome this is, and I look forward to any and all future developments on it.
Ill look into the position bug, not sure about the N and E points, and..THANKS :D
 

Shadic

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Dec 18, 2003
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Shadoof
O hey guys.

So, I fixed Final Destination's ledges. They pretty much work amazing now.

Download

What I did:
  1. Turned the "Ceiling" on both sides into walls, facing proper directions.
  2. Carefully moved one of the collision points outward in order to make it work proper.

*Shadic bows*

Edit: Quick comparison image:
Before.
After.

And it looks perfect in-game.
 

NAMQ_DrunkeNFeasT

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Dec 28, 2007
Messages
429
Location
Puerto Rico
ok I opened BrawlWall, and then opened STGBATTLEFIELD

after I opened it I went to the DeadOn and DeadIn

after I refresh it, the X value on the position edit represents the originl value, and Y... just... goes 0 :S

after I refresh it it messes up, so I can get the original values so for editing other stages to have a better deathboundry I get screwed :S

I hope for the next version this gets fixed ;)

Dantarion:
Idunno, I haven't looked at those files.
plz do, I'm interested :)
 

Segab

Smash Rookie
Joined
Dec 23, 2008
Messages
18
O hey guys.

So, I fixed Final Destination's ledges. They pretty much work amazing now.

Download

What I did:
  1. Turned the "Ceiling" on both sides into walls, facing proper directions.
  2. Carefully moved one of the collision points outward in order to make it work proper.

*Shadic bows*

Edit: Quick comparison image:
Before.
After.

And it looks perfect in-game.
I was about to try to fix this, but seeing that you did it I'll be using it :]
 

Dantarion

Smash Champion
Joined
May 21, 2007
Messages
2,492
Location
Santa Barbara, CA
Okay, new version is out, the Y value of Positions should now be saved correctly.
Also, the canvas will refresh on selecting a different position, just like on planes.
 

MK26

Smash Master
Joined
Jun 29, 2008
Messages
4,450
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http://www.mediafire.com/?zj2oddmz0yy for ZSS fix!
yo, shadic, can i post that in the op of the stage hacking hub?

also, dant, can you give us the option to skip the update check before it attempts to connect to the internet?

edit: also, is it BrawlWall or BrawllWall? ive seen both...how about |Braw|Wal|? (:p)

(underline optional)
 

E-Jolteon

Smash Ace
Joined
Sep 7, 2007
Messages
502
Location
The other side
Wow, it works well!

It still crashes when switching to a new file, but just closing it when your'e done and re-opening isn't that bad.

Now if on we could import models...
 

NAMQ_DrunkeNFeasT

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Dec 28, 2007
Messages
429
Location
Puerto Rico
I like the New Pork thing and saw:

STGNEWPORKamkmaestro

and then I was inspired to edit some stuff my friend complained (about glidding through below the stage would be stalling, or stuff like that, anyways, I also gave different possition to the pkmn trainer, IC's Final Smash and Lucarios (also the Camara Center thingy to the main stage

here's my version

STGNEWPORKamkmaestro_NAMQ
 

NAMQ_DrunkeNFeasT

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Dec 28, 2007
Messages
429
Location
Puerto Rico
omg... someone plz teach me how to make smash pics but when clicked open the big file >.<

maybe I should insert a link better...

sorry I had to Double Post for this complaint


Edit

Done, fixed my last post, but I wish to learn how I can insert small images that when clicked they go to full resolution, I had to use insert link to put the Link into the text, but I wish to learn how to do it (pm me so we can stay on topic)

Edit2

let me know what you think of my version of NPC, also, at the last version, there were item spawn points outside of the death boundry, I fixed it up, fixed up every item, finalsmash stuff to be inside the main stage and limo or ship
 

n64billy

Smash Ace
Joined
Feb 4, 2009
Messages
614
Location
Behind you!
THe new drop down boxes are nice, however I don't get the "Effect" label.... I know that for water on Delfino Plaza that it comes up as "1C", but is that just the effect ID for water splashes, or what actually makes it act like water...? I'm trying a few things out but the fast updates are a little confusing seeing as there is no readme or guide (Sorry if I sound some-what demanding)

EDIT: Scratch that, got it wrong... The effect doesn't auto update once you select a new effect... However I still can't get a 1C, as it's not on the list..... (Comes up as blank on the drop down box, but you can't select that blank option)
 

xDD-Master

Smash Champion
Joined
Sep 22, 2008
Messages
2,992
Location
Berlin
Anyone having an idea why my right stage doesnt work ???



The left Stage (FD) works fine, but when I choose the right Stage (BF) my wii freezes ._.

I already changed all the options (Roof / NoWallJump etc. pp)

Edit:

**** I accidentely deleted the right one <<

Wanted to upload both :S
 

xDD-Master

Smash Champion
Joined
Sep 22, 2008
Messages
2,992
Location
Berlin
Are you missing any camera boundaries?
Sry but I do not really know what you mean :(

Btw. I copied the MiscData[2] of the FD, then pasted it in BF... what worked... for sure the platforms were gone, so I trief to recreate them (Offset etc.) but that doesnt work for some reason it always crashs my wii :/

Here is the FD:
http://www.npshare.de/files/ae858773/STGFINAL.pac

Just export the miscdata2 and replace it in BF's pac.
Then you can try to recreate the BFs platforms :S (Use null 2-6 because they were platforms in the original I just put in 0s in every field so the disappear).

Or you try what I did, using the original BF to make it a box...

Anyway it would be nice if you tell me what you mean by camera boundaries and how/why they can freeze the wii when loading the stage :confused:

Thx.



EDIT:

OK I tried a simpler Version and again it freezed.

Here is a pic of it:

http://www5.picfront.org/picture/bpw6HVvs60/img/BF.png

And here is the DL:

http://www.npshare.de/files/1091c36f/STGBATTLEFIELD.pac

I have NO clue what to change...
 

Amazing Ampharos

Balanced Brawl Designer
Writing Team
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Messages
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Some things I notice messing around with it...

I notice all pieces of the Falcon Flier (Misc[3] on Big Blue) have an unlisted and otherwise unselectable property. Castle Siege's second transformations has similarly blank values for some stuff (well, a different one of the four properties is blank). I like the way the new interface makes selecting between properties easier, but there is a loss of functionality.

Rainbow Cruise crashes the program. Big Blue and Rumble Falls load fine so I'm not sure what the deal is with Rainbow Cruise.

Trying to open the dummy stage .pacs (like Emblem_00.pac) doesn't return any error message but just keeps acting like you had the previous file you had open open. It's pretty screwy.
 

hotdogturtle

Smash Master
Joined
Feb 15, 2007
Messages
3,503
The dropdown boxes for effects are sort of limiting. In the previous version (which I was unknowingly using up until tonight when I updated) you could combine numbers for multiple effects. For example, 24576 (8192 + 16384) was GrabLeft+GrabRight, which I actually used in one of my attempts to fix a SSE stage that only had 1 platform. In the current version you're more limited by only being able to select one of the provided options.
 

NAMQ_DrunkeNFeasT

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Dec 28, 2007
Messages
429
Location
Puerto Rico
The dropdown boxes for effects are sort of limiting. In the previous version (which I was unknowingly using up until tonight when I updated) you could combine numbers for multiple effects. For example, 24576 (8192 + 16384) was GrabLeft+GrabRight, which I actually used in one of my attempts to fix a SSE stage that only had 1 platform. In the current version you're more limited by only being able to select one of the provided options.
omg!!!

it's like for the code for music, you must assign a Button hold for the music you want to be loaded

which is for example:

1 = A
10 = L
100 = Start

so we can do 111 to make A+L+Start for the song

omg, I didn't knew we could do the same for Brawlwall (sniff)

would be awosme if it can have another tab so we can actually have 2 tabs for experiments (like you said grab left + grab right
 

hotdogturtle

Smash Master
Joined
Feb 15, 2007
Messages
3,503
Yeah, it was extremely useful, but I didn't realize the full potential of it until I updated my version and no longer had it >_> Every 2^x was a different property and they could be combined in any way. Dant, please put that feature back in.
 

Amazing Ampharos

Balanced Brawl Designer
Writing Team
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That's odd though because I am going through the effects, and they don't seem to quite work like that. Rather, it probably does, but it's not quite like you'd expect.

The options in the first dropdown tab of BrawlWall have effect values of 0-11 (they're listed in order in BrawlWall). They also all correspond to sound effects from stepping on said ground (let's ignore 0 which is "none"), though some have low friction labels so perhaps the sound effect and the friction are tied together. The only hex values in this range that are of the 2^n are 1, 2, 4, 8, and 10. It's my suspicion that values less than 20 are all treated independently and that beyond that you have the combination model.

In hex, the four options in the second window are 100 (DropPlatform), 2000 (GrabLeft), 4000 (GrabRight), and 8000 (NoWallJump). This leaves 200, 400, 800, and 1000 unknown but presumably independent. The fate of 20, 40, and 80 is very unclear; they could be treated as part of the general "hardcoded combination" set, or they could be independent. Values over 8000, if they exist, are presumably independent.

I'll now document everything I can find which is currently unknown.

12: Used for one piece of ground near bottom of Target Test 3, also on a right wall nearby and two roofs (were these spikes?), also one piece of ground on Target Test 5 (pretty sure it's spikes)
15: Hanenbow (throughout)
18: Luigi's Mansion outdoor ground/rooftop, Rumble Falls assorted ground, Mushroomy Kingdom ground, Bridge of Eldin ground, Spear Pillar upper part ground/platforms, Castle Siege form 2 (not "tarps" but everything else), Skyworld ("solid" ground), Target Test 5 ground
1A: Mario Bros. lower ground
1B: Delfino Plaza floating platform ground, Mushroomy Kingdom Pipe tops, Pokemon Stadium 2 flying form ground, Port Town Aero Dive ground (not clear where, not universal)
1C: Delfino Plaza sand ground
1D: Homerun Contest Arena ground
400: one small piece on the bottom-left corner of Pirate Ship, Frigate Orpheon everything except PT's platform, Pokemon Stadium 2 ground form dirt mount, PictoChat drawing 9, Shadow Moses Island tops of walls, Big Blue Falcon Flier (used in combination with other values), walls/roofs on tree in Pokemon Stadium 1 fire form, walls on rock form Pokemon Stadium 1, windmill on water form Pokemon Stadium 1
916: Summit clouds, Skyworld clouds

Stages checked: Battlefield, Final Destination, Delfino Plaza, Luigi's Mansion, Mushroomy Kingdom (both), Mario Circuit, Rumble Falls, Bridge of Eldin, Pirate Ship, Norfair, Frigate Orpheon, Yoshi's Island (Brawl), Halberd, Lylat Cruise, Pokemon Stadium 2, Spear Pillar (only checked STGTENGEN_1.pac, other two should be identical), Port Town Aero Dive, Castle Siege, WarioWare Inc., Distant Planet, Smashville, New Pork City, Summit, Skyworld (not 100% thorough), 75m, Mario Bros., Flat Zone 2, PictoChat, Hanenbow, Shadow Moses Island, Green Hill Zone, Temple, Yoshi's Island (Melee), Jungle Japes, Onett, Corneria, Green Greens, Big Blue (didn't bother checking every individual car), Brinstar, Pokemon Stadium 1, WiFi Training Room, All Star/Boss Battles Rest Area, Homerun Contest Arena, Configtest, Results, Target Test 1-5

That's really enough for now. 18 is obviously a common sound effect that was just missed. I'm betting that all the other low values are just uncommon sound effects.

I legitimately have no idea what 400 could be. I don't know which drawing PictoChat's 9th one is; the image is way too confusing to figure it out. I just can't imagine what's special about the Falcon Flier... I really don't know, but I should point out that it is used on all pieces of the Falcon Flier, including the walls and underside. The game typically doesn't use effects when they don't do anything. Pokemon Stadium 2's odd inclusion here doesn't exactly shed light on the subject. The Pirate Ship case is even more baffling!

916 seems special because it's such a weird number, but I think I can break it down. 16 is probably just another unique sound effect, and 100 is known to be DropPlatform. That leaves us with 800 which I'm willing to bet is the property that lets you hit people down through the clouds on Skyworld.

We know of sound effects up existing up to 1D now; if I were to hazard a guess, I'd guess that 13, 14, 17, and 19 all exist but just haven't been found yet, either on Rainbow Cruise or Subspace only (and probably more beyond that, but I have no idea what the limit might be). Given the massive number of stage files when subspace stages are factored in, there's really plenty of room for these.

As per the interesting values (the sound effect things only seem to matter gameplay wise when it comes to friction... not wholly unimportant but a fairly small point overall), I still haven't found any sign of the potentially mysterious or potentially just unused 20, 40, and 80. Among values far more likely to exist, I haven't seen 200 or 1000 anywhere; they must be confined to Rainbow Cruise and Subspace.

On another note, Mario Bros. has the most bizarre set of collision files you'll ever find. There seem to be only one object/plane in the whole thing and a whole lot of individual points.

I'm likely to update this post later as I search through more stages. I hope to at least end up looking through every stage in the melee folder (granted, BrawlWall not being able to open Rainbow Cruise is a detriment to that). I am likely only to look at stages in the adventure folder that I have some reasonable basis to suspect are going to be interesting; there are just way too many of them, and they don't matter much for the part of the game that is actually fun.

EDIT note: Homerun Contest Arena's breakable walls have an undocumented type value that seems to be 20. Figuring out what Unknown1 and Unknown2 do in general would probably be important for working out the type field fully.

I do have a suspicion about Unknown1 and Unknown2. In general, everything seems to have Unknown1 except things that only the Pokemon Trainer can stand on. So I think Unknown1 is "solid" in general while Unknown2 is "solid only to the Pokemon Trainer". For those unaware, the type values go like this:

0: None
1: Ground
2: Roof
4: RightWall
8: LeftWall
10: Unknown1 (I suspect "solid")
20: Undocumented (only used for breakable walls on HRC)
40: Unknown2 (seems to only be used for PT platforms that have no interaction with normal characters).
 

MasterOfKnees

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This could easily turn out to be one of the best things for brawl hacking to happen, even though im not an big hacker myself so i will let the others do the work ^^. Also the installer weights 666KB xP, just thought i would point out :D
 

hotdogturtle

Smash Master
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Feb 15, 2007
Messages
3,503
Hmm, alright. The 2^x was just a guess since I saw 8192 and 16384 and just assumed that all the lesser values followed that pattern. But I did make a couple stages with hex 6000 for GrabLeft+GrabRight, which is no longer possible.
 
Joined
Aug 12, 2005
Messages
620
Location
Miami, Florida
hotdogturtle, when I asked earlier what were ideal values for stage and camera boundaries, you said to base it off of already existing stages, so I did just that.
I've gone through a couple of stages and come up with what we would probably consider to be normal values for how big a stage should be and where the blast zones should lie.
I'll update this post later with more.



Universal Values
Blast Zones: 60 From the camera edge
Character Spawns: Level with the ground/platform
Final Smashes(Lucario, Olimar): 100 from the ground (not highest platform)


Stage Values
Camera Limit Horizontally for Floating Stages (FD, Battlefield): 90 from the nearest ledge.

For stages that are "walkoff (Subspace Bomb Factory, MarioKart)", the horizontal camera limits are really a matter of preference. As long as the blast zones are spaced 60 away from the camera limit (both sides and cieling) you can make the stage as large as you like.

Camera Limit Vertically: 130 from the highest platform
(this is actually ideal for ALL stages, which is why Shadow Moses has such a high blast zone. Its highest platforms are the two destructible ones on the side)

Camera Limit relative to bottom roof of stage: 30
 

Amazing Ampharos

Balanced Brawl Designer
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I updated my previous post a bit. I just ran out of time and will be checking the stages I've missed (Frigate Orpheon, Lylat Cruise, Smashville, Configtest, Results, and the other Target Tests) later tonight.

A question though. Can anyone recall specifically teching off the objects with value 400? I wonder if 400 is for "no teching".
 

Dantarion

Smash Champion
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May 21, 2007
Messages
2,492
Location
Santa Barbara, CA
Amazing posts in here. I willl be restoring the raw data field entry. I actually have code now so it can be displayed/entered in hex :D
 
Joined
Aug 12, 2005
Messages
620
Location
Miami, Florida
On a slightly minor note, I find it annoying to have made edits to a stages boundaries and have BrawlWall crash while its saving, then proceed to make the exact same edits a second time, only for it to save just fine. -_-
 

Amazing Ampharos

Balanced Brawl Designer
Writing Team
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Kansas City, MO
I have now finished documenting all of the normal stages (except Rainbow Cruise). Hopefully it should be helpful in getting full use out of these fields.

I opened up one adventure stage at random (420031c.pac), and it has proven very interesting. Almost all the collision uses 50 under type which should be Unknown1 and Unknown2 at the same time (makes sense, PT and characters share the same places in subspace). I found a few roofs that used type 100, no idea what that could be.

Effect 17 is used on 920801.pac which I believe to be Tabuu's stage. I thought it had a unique footstep sound, and this suggests I'm right.
 
Joined
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Messages
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Location
Miami, Florida
What are the text things floating around? Can't read 'em.

Nice picture though.
Reading them isn't important, this picture assumes you already know how to use Brawlwall (That stage pack is coming tomorrow btw. All the best SSE Stages with fixed boundaries, finished it 5 minutes ago)

The Purple outline is the camera boundary (how far out the camera will follow you) and the outer red outline is the blast zone (When you cross is, you asplode)
 

Shadic

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Shadoof
I was mostly just wondering because I wanted confirmation on what you said in an earlier post, but seem to have edited. It was where you said that character spawns were supposed to be 10 ABOVE a platform. Seems you redacted that to "Level with the ground." which is accurate in my experience.
 
Joined
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Messages
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I was mostly just wondering because I wanted confirmation on what you said in an earlier post, but seem to have edited. It was where you said that character spawns were supposed to be 10 ABOVE a platform. Seems you redacted that to "Level with the ground." which is accurate in my experience.
That is accurate.
 
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