TDB: SEASON 2! LEON (RE4) vs LARA CROFT

payasofobia · Jan 10, 2010

Mission accomplished.

This MU was prolonged.....a LOT.

Anyway, I agree with Xiaomu. As individuals, we humans are sub-par. Have you never heard of the saying "never go alone to the jungle"? When we are divided, we are easy prey for animals.

I don't think Roy has a chance here. And he is going to have even less chances considering DK is smarter than him. You know, because he pilots robots and all....and speaks english.....

Anyway, is Roy's fighting style made specially to counter a Gorilla? I said this before in the Luke vs Diddy MU: being skilled in taking down other martial artist does not mean you can also take down an animal.

Is fencing, a fighting style made to fight other civilians in duel of sort, effective in taking down a beast with 10 times your own physical abilities?

adumbrodeus · Jan 10, 2010

I'm tired of responding to every little claim you guys make, we'll deal with DK as a gorilla if you can prove that he's a gorilla, no "ifs", "ands", or "buts".

His proportions are decidedly NOT gorilla-like, so he is not a gorilla unless he has been defined somewhere in the cannon.

So what we have is an extremely slow, WAY too top-heavy creature that lacks 90% of the gorilla's natural advantages.

Sieguest · Jan 11, 2010

Hmm, just something to note...
this has been going in circles...
...
...
So now the question is... who has more concrete arguments... because if we keep going at this point, we'll just make more circles... >__>

Amount of times we've come to the same issue over and over again in this MU:
*points to my profile picture*

Nova9000 · Jan 11, 2010

Guest438 said:
Hmm, just something to note...
this has been going in circles...
...
...
So now the question is... who has more concrete arguments... because if we keep going at this point, we'll just make more circles... >__>

Amount of times we've come to the same issue over and over again in this MU:
*points to my profile picture*

Isn't that Wolfs scouter lol?

Can't let you do that Star....Whaa??
*Sonic rushes in*
*Reads power level*
*You're too slow!*

Xiahou Dun · Jan 11, 2010

adumbrodeus said:
I'm tired of responding to every little claim you guys make, we'll deal with DK as a gorilla if you can prove that he's a gorilla, no "ifs", "ands", or "buts".

His proportions are decidedly NOT gorilla-like, so he is not a gorilla unless he has been defined somewhere in the cannon.

Dedede has the proportions of a Penguin? Wolf has the proportions of a Wolf or just plain anything? Nobody else seemed to get this kind of thing thrown at them so why should DK alone. he shouldn't. If he does everyone should. Do you propose we simply start the whole thing over from the beginning now?

adumbrodeus · Jan 11, 2010

Xiahou Dun said:
Dedede has the proportions of a Penguin? Wolf has the proportions of a Wolf? Nobody else seemed to get this kind of thing thrown at them so why should DK alone?

Actually, they have, we've got a history of poking around these things until we find some facet that destroys them (look at what happened to kirby and jiggs for example).

When we find them in later match-ups we go back and revise (generally cause people look at different issues each time).

However we toss out failure proportions or even proportions that would work but don't fit the species as unrealistic if the species actually exists in the real world (saving the mario brothers for the example).

So yes, everybody gets the same treatment.

You're a little late to the party on this.

REL38 · Jan 11, 2010

I find it particularly disappointing how this MU has prolonged for almost 3 weeks, over a rather straight forward match that's already been in Roy's favour for the majority of the debate and that's been approached from almost all angles.

This has lasted longer than the electrolaser bit with Zamus/Falcon

>____>

<____<

>____<

Nova9000 · Jan 11, 2010

I agree with REL. This was last year's MU and we're still on it. The sad fact is, it's been decided who wins and now we're discussing DK in general which can be done outside the thread.

Xiahou Dun · Jan 11, 2010

REL38 said:
I find it particularly disappointing how this MU has prolonged for almost 3 weeks, over a rather straight forward match that's already been in Roy's favour for the majority of the debate and that's been approached from almost all angles.

This has lasted longer than the electrolaser bit with Zamus/Falcon

>____>

<____<

>____<

It has been approached from TWO angles.

1. "Roy has a sword lol spacing" This argument is ******** n so iz ur face. Wrong completely.

2. The whole DK proportions thing. Which I see as overly nitpicky and obsessive. However it is not without merit. It is at least true. DK's proportions are certainly weird, cumbersome and handicapping if to be examined in a Real World setting.

Beren Zaiga · Jan 11, 2010

I just went to SmashWiki (dumb as it makes me sound), but the Trophy Information describes Donkey Kong as an ape. The problem is, what kind of ape? This leads us back to the same problem, what is DK?

By all appearances, DK appears to be a gorilla, as suggested by the way he idles in the original Donkey Kong Country to Brawl, his posture is indicative of that of a gorilla, due to his shape.

This official art here indicates that Donkey Kong's is similar to that of a gorilla (finally a pose that is relevant)

Now lets put this picture, side by side, with DK, with Subspecies of Gorillae in the same or similar pose.

While the two gorillas above are extremely similar. They are different. The first one is a Eastern Lowland Gorilla, while the second one, is a Western Lowland Gorilla.

Look at the three of these pictures. Donkey Kong carries features that can be most identified with gorillas: his posture, head-shape, the pronounced brow ridge, mouth and jaw shape, the tendency to walk on hands or knuckles, and his strength, all indicate he is a gorilla.

Point of fact, if you take the legs of these real-life primates, and shorten them slightly, you would get the standing posture of Donkey Kong as he appears in the N64 artwork shown.

This isn't pigeon-holing, as adumb would lead you to believe, this is basing what he is off of the features of which animal his features most identify with, which in this case, is a gorilla.

Let me go further to pull out another fictional character: King Kong.

King Kong, in both movies, is represented as a gorilla. They also carry a similar title: Kong.

Arbitrary as the above two points about King Kong may be, Donkey Kong's original arcade game makes him take a similar role to King Kong himself, kidnapping a beautiful damsel he loves.

Since King Kong was based off of a gorilla, and Donkey Kong and he at one time had a similar role fictionally speaking, combined with the fact that the Trophy Information describes DK as an ape and that he carries a lot of physical similarities, then Donkey Kong is more than likely a gorilla.

Nova9000 · Jan 11, 2010

@ Beren:

Here's what I discovered and asked a few people about. IMO I proved he's a gorilla but a failing gorilla. I do appreciate someone else trying to find a solution to this besides myself and JOE!.

So I guess I have to prove two things: 1, DK is a gorilla, and 2, DK isn't lolphail.

So for the 1st point, look at this:
http://www.animalcorner.co.uk/wildli...s_anatomy.html
There compares the skeletons for humans and gorillas.
Gorillas naturally have bigger and longer arms than us and their chest cavity is also a lot bigger than ours. They have shorter legs than us as well. Because of how they knuckle walk, DK fits all of these things quite well. However, there is one area that DK's build contradicts in a sense: his pelvis. A gorilla's pelvis bone is larger than ours and would be as a norm. But DK's pelvis seems to be rather petite for a gorilla.

Next, look at this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donkey_Kong_64#Characters
DK is a mountain gorilla. They explain what every character is (except Diddy >__>) as well, which leads me to what JOE! was trying to say. If you look at what Chunky Kong is, he is the biggest primate on the Earth. I think JOE! had him in mind when he made all these claims of what DK really is, but got exaggerated to the extinct primate he wants us to believe he is now. All tht to say that DK is a big gorilla, but for his species, not for a gorilla as a whole because mountain backs are not as big as East lowland gorillas. Even looking at the pic kinda confirms this to an extent.

Now my next point is more or less in theory, but worth a shot.
Im going to do another proportion, but not arm length. This one is height and weight. According to Wiki, the heaviest mountain gorilla recorded was 6' and weighed 590lbs. Now, I don't know DK's height, but I do know his weight. Check out this @ 1:40:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6EePxnbmwHE
He weighs a solid 800lbs. Also note the tallest mountain gorilla was 6'4". So setting up proportions like they are to be done,
800*6=4800
4800/590=8.14 (rounded).

So DK would have to be about 8' while standing bipedally to be proportional to being 800 lbs. And using the tallest mountain gorilla as a reference for comparison, DK cannot be 8' tall. So technically he is overweight for a mountain gorilla. Again, this is by proportion, but proportions are fairly approximate.

So all in all, I think DK is an overweight mountain gorilla. His agility and speed he's known for in games cannot be transferred well into RL. He also has to support himself on at least one arm (or lean on something) since his pelvic bone is small for a gorilla and can't support the weight on two legs alone. Does that mean DK is lolphail? He's been nerfed, but let's get into that now...

Now, depending on the incarnation of DK you choose, depends what happens. Starting with the DK64 DK. If you look at the link above, you'll see DK and how he's shaped. This DK is the worst ncarnation in RL. His body is shaped like a triangle with his waist beint the smallest part and the shoulders being the widest. Unless he handstands, there is no hope for this DK. Now let's move to the DK you see in the Mario Parties and in other recent games:
http://images.uncyc.org/pt/thumb/8/8...DonkeyKong.jpg
This version isn't as bad as the DK64, and he has the characteristics of mountain gorillas in the fact that they have hairier arms and less on their backs. But the pelvic area is still small. His legs seem to be a bit larger than the 64 version as well, so he won't be as bad as the 64 in terms of mobility, but he still has to knuckle walk to get around. Not a complete fail, but not what he is in canon. Finally, I bring you the Brawl version of DK:
http://old-wizard.com/wp-content/upl...bros_brawl.jpg
and
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qfwDSwhm-Lk @ 6:15
I used both a pic and video to show how he moves rather than just assuming off of the pic. He stands the most chance of being a competitor and a gorilla than any other incarnation I've seen. He has the most reasonable arm : leg ratio out of them all, the biggest waist and pelvis, and even moves like mountain gorillas do. If we use this incarnation, he is a mountain gorilla. Overweight, but still a gorilla from the mountains.

So all in all I say this: If we decide to take everything I just said and put it to the DK in the MUs, he would lack the agility and the ability to walk bipedally. But by knuckle walking and using his weight as an advantage, he can still contend with the competitors. I hope that's enough right there to convince you tht DK is a mountain gorilla and that he isn't lolphail, but just failing.

Also, to add that he's a gorilla, check out these and read a little:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donkey_Kong_Country_(TV_series)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donkey_Kong_(character)#Creation

http://www.dkvine.com/features/species.html

http://wdgg.fm/Donkey-Kong/418748

DK is a gorilla. Let's move on.

REL38 · Jan 11, 2010

Xiahou Dun said:
It has been approached from TWO angles.

1. "Roy has a sword lol spacing" This argument is ******** n so iz ur face. Wrong completely.

2. The whole DK proportions thing. Which I see as overly nitpicky and obsessive. However it is not without merit. It is at least true. DK's proportions are certainly weird, cumbersome and handicapping if to be examined in a Real World setting.

I was also including:

-His intelligence
Robot control somehow makes an ape pretty darn smart, even though apes aren't capable of this

-Explosives
orange grenades and Bob-ombs, both of which don't work like they should

-Natural projectiles
His crap and coconuts. Yeeeah.

@Beren

We was cool with DK being a gorilla, but JOE . . . .

Anyways, what you're suggesting is that we take game Donkey Kong, and then make him into a RL gorilla with a tie and curly cue hair, right?

Just makin' sure we're on the same page here.

JOE! · Jan 11, 2010

whats wrong with that, rel, when we have things like this allowed:

anywho, why is it that far of a stretch to say DK is a very big gorilla? I mean, we also allow Ganondorf to be a very big Human, without tacking on the health issues that would come with his size + his age. The canon also supports his size from the roiginal DK to now, where he has e few inches to over a foot over human characters even when on all fours.

Beren Zaiga · Jan 11, 2010

REL38 said:
[COLOR="Sandybrown"
@Beren

We was cool with DK being a gorilla, but JOE . . . .

Anyways, what you're suggesting is that we take game Donkey Kong, and then make him into a RL gorilla with a tie and curly cue hair, right?

Just makin' sure we're on the same page here.[/COLOR]

It was adumb's comment about pigeon-holing a species onto DK that set me off, which is why I did that.

What I am saying, compare DK's physical characteristics, and cross-analyze them with RL Gorillas, all the things I mentioned indicate he is a gorilla, including the posture with which he supports his body with both hands.

If there were some extinct gorilla species, we probably would know about it and have used it for the MU by now, but as it stands, the closest thing to a Kong is King Kong, and he is a giant gorilla.

However a game I have been playing recently, an AU-RPG called Nostalgia, has ape-like enemies that hold the name "Kong", and they have proportions similar to DK. Small legs, and large arms being the most notable similarities. So maybe there is something to this whole thing about the existence of Kongs, or its a coincidence (most likely), I don't know. Googling it however would probably yield better results if such an animal as a Kong actually existed.

Nova9000 · Jan 12, 2010

When are we going to move on from this and get another MU going?

JOE! · Jan 13, 2010

sorry guys, been busy starting my new semester (and playing pokemon <.< >.> )

new MU soon

Rialdospaldacht · Jan 14, 2010

Does Pit have arrows or did we decide that those are magic?

If he has them, he wins. If he doesn't, Ganondorf wins.

JOE! · Jan 14, 2010

Rialdospaldacht said:
Does Pit have arrows or did we decide that those are magic?

If he has them, he wins. If he doesn't, Ganondorf wins.

pit never actually had swords outside of brawl, yet the bow he has isnt the calibur of Link's armor-piercer, or Zelda's highly acurate models

Rialdospaldacht · Jan 14, 2010

Alright, so then Ganondorf can unquestionably crush him once he gets there. So it's a question of A: whether Pit's arrows can go through Ganondorf's armor and B: if not, does he have good enough aim to get a headshot?

JOE! · Jan 14, 2010

this was discussed in the re-evaluations I belive...

Pit's bow lacks the range, accuracy and power seen in Link's and Zelda's bows, yet can actually be relativley spammed like he does in smash.

so he has (for a bow) rapid fire shots that arent accurate nor able to pierce armor effectivley

adumbrodeus · Jan 14, 2010

I will reiterate the problems that Pit had.

His shortbow is made for rapid fire, but is lacking in both the armor-piercing department and the accuracy department.

Second problem is limited shots, because he gets new ammo through magic he doesn't have a quiver or anything equivalent. So basically, he's limited to one shot with a rapid fire weapon... Not only that, but due to the nature of his arrows he has no need for a quiver and lacks the cultural impetus for one, in fact he has the opposite since it interferes with his flight.

The head is a difficult target so...

Nova9000 · Jan 14, 2010

Anyway, that's why Pit loses. His arrows can't do anywhere near the amount of damage Link's can, and those wings...Ganon could cover his face with his blade and charge.

JOE! · Jan 14, 2010

dont forget about his earthquake punches Nova :lick:

Nova9000 · Jan 14, 2010

Oh yea. Ganon haymakered the ground and look at Haiti.
I'm giving money to help the victims of Ganondorf.
And of course this:

JOE! · Jan 14, 2010

Nova9000 said:
I'm giving money to help the victims of Ganondorf.

i wanna sig this, but i dunno if I have room...

UncleSam · Jan 14, 2010

*super lurks for interesting MU*
ohaider.

Nova9000 · Jan 15, 2010

http://www.flickr.com/photos/45637547@N03/4221229306/

And that's how it goes...

JOE! · Jan 15, 2010

sorry, will update soon, busy today...

Beren Zaiga · Jan 15, 2010

In other news, anybody wanna help me get back into Brawl here at home? I have pretty much detoxed myself on it and I wanna have exciting games again.

JOE! · Jan 16, 2010

ok, ganon beats pit...New Mu soon

Nova9000 · Jan 16, 2010

Hmmm....does Falco have the same weapons as Fox and Wolf (Gattling)?
Besides, Falco has this:

UncleSam · Jan 16, 2010

whoever sees the other first wins.
Falco can get in snipes and well, snake is snake.
(btw watching the livestream of pound 4 and I heard Adum's name being called out

, **** straight I'm in 2 places at once)

REL38 · Jan 16, 2010

Snake

He's got much, much, much more weapons and combat experience than Falco.

Snake is much more likely to get off the first strike.

Ain't Falco's sniper an energy weapon?
Don't think those work.

I'd say Snake is a better sniper anyways.
He's taken on a legendary expert sniper in a 1 vs 1
Snake could better use the environment.

xepherthree · Jan 17, 2010

OH **** DK VS ROY ENDED
I can come back nao :o

But before this MU starts we need to decide weapons.
Two major questions:
1. Does snake have all his guns?
2. Does Falco have the gatling gun? Or just the sniper?

JOE! · Jan 17, 2010

dk vs roy ended a while ago, and you missed ganon ****** pit.

snake has all his guns because if i say anything to make the match interesting at all ill get *****ed at, and the spacies all got special weapons....

Nova9000 · Jan 17, 2010

So Falco has sniper or gattling? What defines "special" lol?

xepherthree · Jan 18, 2010

Nova9000 said:
So Falco has sniper or gattling? What defines "special" lol?

If snake has all his guns, falco is f***** anyway...
IF falco has the gatling the very BEST it would end in is a tie o.o

IsmaR · Jan 18, 2010

Gattling gun is an energy weapon. ****.

Nova9000 · Jan 18, 2010

xepherthree said:
If snake has all his guns, falco is f***** anyway...
IF falco has the gatling the very BEST it would end in is a tie o.o

Well REL said they all should have the same weapon. And this merits a two-fold thing. If they all get gattlings, then IMO Wolf> Snake. If not, then Falcon> Falco.

IsmaR said:
Gattling gun is an energy weapon. ****.

O_o Seems like we have some things to discuss with the spacies...

REL38 · Jan 18, 2010

IsmaR said:
Gattling gun is an energy weapon. ****.

Aww, I thought people wouldn't catch on to that

http://arwinglanding.net/sf2/index.php?page=weapons

The Gatling Gun is an improvement of the blaster.
It's a rapid energy based weapon.

Poor spacies . . .

TDB: SEASON 2! LEON (RE4) vs LARA CROFT

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