• Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!

    You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!

The Official Ike Video Critique Thread

Mr. Doom

Mr. Doom

Smash Hero
Joined
Sep 25, 2008
Messages
5,681
Location
Electrodrome
NNID
MrDoom8000
Meh, I've been sucking lately, but these two were my better games of last week. I'd appreciate it greatly if someone critiqued these for me.

Mr. Doom (Ike) vs Z Combo (Fox)

I know what killed me at the end, and I was prepared for it, but the tripping messed me up big time.

Mr. Doom (Ike) vs IDDQD (MK)

Again, at the end, I messed up. I had thought that I was hit, so did the MK player...

From what I could see from these two videos, I tend to slow down towards the end. I suppose this is analogous to what I do in real life situations, too.
 
Nysyarc

Nysyarc

Last King of Hollywood
Joined
Apr 21, 2009
Messages
3,389
Location
Dartmouth, Nova Scotia
NNID
Nysyarc
3DS FC
1075-0983-2504
Sonic Storm said:
Should I be retreating f-airs all of the time, then? Or is it OK to approach with them from time to time?
Click to expand...
It's really a judgement call, but in order to make that call, you need to always be aware of your spacing and the situation you're in. If you can bait your opponent into using a laggy attack, then Fair away and don't worry about retreating. But anytime you're unsure or are just throwing out an Fair for the sake of attacking, retreat it.

Sonic Storm said:
I typically use it as a gtfo move, something just for breathing room. I don't try to use it for KOs that much.
Click to expand...
Well, your aerials are better gtfo moves, particularly Nair (because it has next to no landing lag and can be retreated). Ftilt has quite a lot of ending lag, and if your opponent sees it coming or just manages to avoid it on reaction, you'll get punished. It is, however, a strong KO move if you can catch your opponent off-guard upwards of 90%.

Sonic Storm said:
I can never seem to get the B-throw -> Dash Attack combo to work. Does the dash attack have to be inputted immediately after the throw? And does it have to be an Instant Dash Attack?
Click to expand...
Yes, it has to be an IDA and you have to buffer it so it comes out at the earliest frame possible... usually; sometimes it will work even if you're off a few frames. It's tricky to buffer it online though, and remember that it doesn't work on every character or at every %. I usually go for it between like 30 - 80% kind of thing.

Sonic Storm said:
I can't really find a good use for d-tilt at all. my accuracy for using it on offstage opponents is very low, and it's practically useless onstage. I guess it's a good thing I hardly, if not never, use it.
Click to expand...
Yah it's not the most useful move by any means. If you can time it you could try pulling off a jab canceled into a Dtilt off-stage (which isn't a true combo but can still work); otherwise though, it's hard to set up a Dtilt spike. The hitbox of Dtilt near the hilt of Ike's sword can KO horizontally earlier than Ftilt but because it's only one small hitbox and it's so close to Ike, it isn't very practical.

Sonic Storm said:
I usually have difficulty DIing attacks, particularly horizontal ones, lol. And plus, I noticed it tippered, so I figured that was enough to KO me at that percentage >_<
Click to expand...
A few quick tips: You always want to aim for the top corners of the stage, and so you always want to bend your trajectory as such. Never just move the control stick in the direct opposite direction that you're flying (for example, don't hold straight down when you're sent up), instead, hold the control stick so you move towards the nearest upper corner of the screen.

Scenario: Marth hits you with his Nair which sends you horizontally at roughly a 15 degree angle, so as soon as the attack connects, you mash your control stick up so that your trajectory is bent to rougly 45 degrees, exactly what you want. You then take that second while you're flying to judge whether your horizontal or vertical momentum is stronger, and cancel accordingly.

What I mean by the momentum is this: If you're flying faster horizontally than vertically, use an air dodge at the earliest moment and then jump immediately afterwards. If you're flying faster vertically, use a Dair or Bair and fast-fall at the same time (smash the control stick down... this makes Dair an easier option). Hope you understood all that and it helped.

Sonic Storm said:
So I take it D-smash is a bad move, lol. I also figured D-smash would be faster to get behind Ike.
Click to expand...
There is no Dsmash. Seriously though, it is inferior to Usmash in every way. It has less range, the hitboxes don't last as long, it takes longer to end, it KOs later, it does less damage... it's just not worth using.

Mr. Doom said:
Mr. Doom (Ike) vs Z Combo (Fox)

I know what killed me at the end, and I was prepared for it, but the tripping messed me up big time.
Click to expand...
I'll edit this with an in-depth critique a little later, I'm going out for a bit now. Quick take though: I liked your use of jabs and Nair through most of it, pretty solid match overall, but charging things like Fsmash and Eruption doesn't work well against Fox because he has excellent tools for aerial stalling and multiple options for recovering. I notice his shine stalling got you quite a few times, most notably the last KO.

Basically against Fox you can't do anything will leave you open for a significant amount of time, because of his speed and the fact that his lasers can rack damage quickly if you're unable to avoid them. When you stuck to jabs and Nair you built up damage on him very efficiently, but you seemed a little unsure of good KO moves at times. I like Utilt for KOing against Fox because a lot of his approaches are aerial and the hitbox lingers to catch him if he approaches too fast. Obviously Usmash worked for you too.

Okay that turned out to be more than a quick take but whatever, lol.

:034:
 
Somebody Else

Somebody Else

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Oct 31, 2007
Messages
88
Ahh, finally got my match uploaded for you, Nys. A few notes on it though:

1. DAir edgeguarding was me thinking about going for it, then deciding not to, and realising I was already half-way there o_O I did it so many times, haha. I've stopped doing that now though :p
2. 0:46 was gay
3. DSmash accidental.
4. 1:20 : We always try to get the balloon. It's an in-joke.
5. QD at ~1:30 : Trying to break his shield xD

Anyway, enjoy :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eux0K2MrgcU

I'll get a new video of me in the new year, this is now surprisingly outdated, I think I've improved more in the last 2-3 months than I ever have.
 
Cassius.

Cassius.

you're deadMEAT.
Joined
Feb 23, 2009
Messages
2,672
Location
Bronx, NY
NNID
CVSSIUS
3DS FC
3239-3108-0529
Few matches from about 3 or 4 months ago o-o

lol this was when Red-X and I tried extremely hard to be fancy <_<. We don't do stuff like this anymore so don't be scared lolol.

This was my first time being home in like 2 months so I was clearing out my replays before 2010 came around. When I saw the date I remembered he came to my place to brawl and stuffz.

It's old and useless but really funny to look at me get ***** ;-; and be appalled at all the stuff red missed and I missed as well (although none of you guys are Bowser critics lmfao) I don't think this is critique-able since it's like 4 months old but whatever:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kbm40ZUdVuk -Match 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CLXS92PHBNw&feature=related - match 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y3KQQvEVxtg&feature=related - match 3

Red we need to get recent matches up <_< lol And if you don't care about old matches, AT LEAST look at 0:37 in the third game. I thought it was pretty interesting.
 
-RedX-

-RedX-

Smash Lord
Joined
Sep 9, 2009
Messages
1,976
Location
Bronx, NY
I'm pretty sure those replays are older than 4-5 months ago >.>
Yes, don't bother critiquing those matches, it's just me doing lots of useless and careless things(aetherspamlol).

At 0:37 in the third match is me attempting the CG on Bowser and that happened lol.
 
N

numba1cheese

Smash Cadet
Joined
Dec 31, 2009
Messages
40
Location
Long Beach, California
Well, I watched the matches of him against Crack, and I'm just gonna point out some things here and there.

As Snake, that guy was way too flashy and didn't know how to use him well. I dunno how many times he spammed F-tilt in succession, and rarely used Up-tilt to finish off Ike. Also, his edge guarding abilities were really predictable (up-smash), so good job by Krad to read and sniff that stuff out.

As MK, he was over aggressive and well...he doesn't know how to play MK. The use of the drill attack to recover, and failing to grab the edge was a perfect example of that. He was way too predictable again, and Krad did a good job of adjusting and winning.

So if you are wondering why I mentioned this stuff about his opponent, it's to say that his opponent's skill level wasn't that high. He's pretty bad to be honest. So barely winning against a bad player isn't that impressive.

As far as his ike goes, guy needs to learn how to jab cancel, it gives you some extra damage that can pay dividends in the end. I think in the Snake match, he spot dodged way too much which is a bad thing against Snake, since a lot of Snake's moves last long or are multiple attacks. He should shield more in general. I think he rolled a bit too much, so he should cut that bit down.

Against MK...well I'll edit this later.

Ok, so for the most part, nice job baiting MK with retreating or stand still N-airs. That move has barely any lag upon landing, so good job making good use of it. First stock, you were getting pressured a lot and it led to your death. Your best bet is to get some space, and once you land a hit, just go after him until he has safely retreated. In my opinion, applying pressure to MK is a key to victory, but knowing when to apply that pressure is important as well. MK will destroy you if you apply pressure at the wrong time, so yea.

Again, I don't recommend you spot dodge too much against MK as he has many multiple hitting moves and lagless quick moves. Stick to shielding.

What state was this tourny in? For a semis match, the skill level of Krad's opponents isn't very high at all. He should try traveling or using wifi to see some better players. Good job though overall on capitalizing on your opponent's mistakes.
 
metroid1117

metroid1117

Smash Master
Joined
Sep 1, 2005
Messages
3,786
Location
Chester, IL
Slaps said:
Slaps vs. UpsilonZealot(mk)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jgt8OZsuY94
critique please =]
Click to expand...
Wow, I haven't posted anything in here for a while... probably because I'm too lazy to watch any match longer than 4 minutes >.>.

Wi-fi, huh... let's see how this goes.

0:34 - He read through your NAir and tried to punish it; he missed, but it should've been a signal for you not to keep NAir'ing like at 0:39, when he just waited again and went for FTilt. It also got you killed soon after; he had guessed that you would jump and come down with another NAir, which is probably why you didn't airdodge. After that stock, however, you started to stay on the ground more and surprised him with your change in playstyle; you also predicted his Shuttle Looping more accurately and managed to edgehog him because of it, so good job on your part.

I guess since it's my favorite move I advocate it a little too much, but I recommend that you use more USmash; at times like 2:24, USmash would've been able to punish him easily. Running away and reverse USmashing can also be a good way to counter glide attacks.

Overall, I think you did well; your win may have been partly due to luck, but you can't deny that you recognized you were being read and changed your style accordingly. There's nothing really major that I can critique on (except for that random Eruption, but that's Wi-fi for you :laugh:) except to consider more USmash; it's definitely Ike's best vertical KO move and it is great for punishing rolls and spotdodges.
 
N

numba1cheese

Smash Cadet
Joined
Dec 31, 2009
Messages
40
Location
Long Beach, California
Slaps, grabbing MK is not really worth it. Unless you know for certain what he's doing, stick to retreating N-airs and OOS jab.

Edit: OOS grab is ok, but the pivot grabbing is took risky.
 
Slaps

Slaps

Smash Lord
Joined
Oct 20, 2008
Messages
1,187
Location
Wifi training room waiting...
NNID
iSlaps
metroid1117 said:
0:34 - He read through your NAir and tried to punish it; he missed, but it should've been a signal for you not to keep NAir'ing like at 0:39, when he just waited again and went for FTilt. It also got you killed soon after; he had guessed that you would jump and come down with another NAir, which is probably why you didn't airdodge.
Click to expand...
Well from what i remember of that death i think i had meant to airdodge lol. It probably woulda seemed kinda stupid for me to come toward the stage with Nair against a mk.
 
DMG

DMG

Smash Legend
Joined
Feb 12, 2006
Messages
18,958
Location
Waco
Slippi.gg
DMG#931
Mr. Doom has matches up from Tulsa Monthly against me and Bassem. Go check that on youtube son.
 
Nysyarc

Nysyarc

Last King of Hollywood
Joined
Apr 21, 2009
Messages
3,389
Location
Dartmouth, Nova Scotia
NNID
Nysyarc
3DS FC
1075-0983-2504
Game Freak201 said:
Well, here is a friendly match I had against MasterChrome.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ah6kvMjVs4Q
Click to expand...
Ah it feels good to be critiquing Ike vids again. Here we go.

0:11 - Right off the bat, that Fair was poorly spaced. Make sure you're not jumping straight at your opponent when you Fair, try to retreat a bit and hit them with the tip of your sword.
0:28 - It can be tricky on WiFi but try not to finish all three hits of Ike's jab combo unless you're certain they'll all connect. The third jab is very punishable.
0:35 - Lol, don't expect that to work too often.
0:50 - You should have seen that coming, try to be a little less aggressive, watch your opponent carefully instead of leaping into action.
0:55 - When Aethering near the edge like that, make sure you grab the ledge afterwards, so you can't be punished.
0:59 - Counter should be seldom used; this Peach isn't very aggressive so it wasn't a good option there.
1:24 - Okay, watch from 1:11 to 1:24; you do the exact same thing three times in a row and it doesn't work each time. Instead of reacting, you need to read what your opponent is doing. If you had noticed that he was rolling behind you every time, you could have turned and jabbed him after the roll.
1:49 - You should act faster after landing with Nair; buffer a shield by holding down R before you land. Nair has minimal landing lag so there's no need to be standing around afterwards.
1:55 - Bad time for Eruption. It should only be used as an edge-guarding move against certain characters. I won't get into too much detail now... basically, don't use it.
2:28 - Landing on the stage after Aether really needs to go. Way too much.
2:57 - Remember, even if something works once against one opponent, doesn't mean it will work against the next. Obviously you got lucky with that ledgehop -> Counter against someone else, but this player likes to grab you a lot. Remember to use all your options when coming up from the ledge. There are plenty.
3:18 - Never jump right back after being thrown or knocked away, that, alongside rolling, is probably the most punished thing in the game among inexperienced players. Also, if you think you're about to be hit, or if you were just hit, hold the control stick up. It will bend your trajectory upwards so you can survive easier; you could have survived that hit.

Overall, you seem to generally know what moves to use and what moves not to use. Try to play a little bit faster, especially when using Nair. Short-hop your Nairs and act immediately after landing. Don't use all three jabs if they won't hit. Stop after jab 1 or 2 if you notice your opponent dodge or DI out of them. Don't land on the stage after an Aether... especially if you missed. Less Counter.

And generally just try to watch your opponent and predict what they'll do based on their habits. I know that can seem hard at first but it's necessary for doing well, especially with Ike. Basically, keep your eyes on your opponent's character, not yours. And whatever you do, stay in control mentally during a match, never let adrenaline take over. It may work in sports and stuff IRL, but in a game like this, you need to keep your head to win.

DigitalMachina said:
JoKe~ VS. Lucas
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AlYE2_82gIs
Click to expand...
Alright, you're up. Let's see how you did.

0:14 - Try not to use Quickdraw as an approach, especially against a character with a projectile... which is a lot of characters.
0:23 - Don't land on the stage after an Aether, it's easy to see the hit coming and punish the landing lag. Try to grab the edge instead, or in that case, you could have landed on the platform to try and throw him off.
1:11 - Try not to Dair into the ground like that, there's always a better option. Right there if you had Nair'd instead, you could have potentially then done Jab1 -> Grab -> Pummel -> ground release -> Jab Combo for much more damage than just a Dair (Jab is guaranteed on Ness and Lucas after a ground grab release).
1:17 - Here's where that "watch your opponent" thing comes in. Lucas' Usmash is pretty easy to see coming as long as you're watching him.
1:28 - Try and make it a habit to pummel at least once as soon as you grab your opponent. You never know how many grabs you'll get as Ike. Also, with Lucas, pummeling him until a ground release is sometimes better than a throw, as mentioned before.
1:43 - Lolfsmash. He wasn't even in front of you. What may have worked there is dashing back a bit, shield-canceling the dash and immediately pivot-Fsmashing. Standing still won't provoke your opponent to do anything, but moving around can bait certain actions that are punishable.
1:57 - Lol, there's that "don't immediately jump back after being thrown" rule from the last video except this time you (the Ike) is punishing the aggressive behavior, nice job.

So in summary, you're a good Ike, your grab game is pretty solid. I would have liked to see a longer match and one where you lose or where it's at least close... maybe next time? One definite piece of advice is to stop using Quickdraw as an approach. Quickdraw and Dash Attack are not good approaches, stick with aerials and shield/jabs/grabs for ground approaches.

Oh, and of course don't Dair into the ground. I say that to the vast majority of players I critique. Nair into the ground, Fair into the ground... heck, even Uair into the ground for certain situations, but there's always a better option than a Dair into the ground.

:034:
 
M4ge

M4ge

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jul 29, 2009
Messages
229
Hey, I secondary Ike but I still hope I can ask for a critique. It's a wifi match that I played last night. I wish I could record an offline match but I haven't really gotten a chance to use him offline. It'd be cool if someone could tell me the things I should stop doing or that I should start doing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t-Xf615ssvA

Thanks in advance!
 
Nysyarc

Nysyarc

Last King of Hollywood
Joined
Apr 21, 2009
Messages
3,389
Location
Dartmouth, Nova Scotia
NNID
Nysyarc
3DS FC
1075-0983-2504
M4ge said:
Hey, I secondary Ike but I still hope I can ask for a critique. It's a wifi match that I played last night. I wish I could record an offline match but I haven't really gotten a chance to use him offline. It'd be cool if someone could tell me the things I should stop doing or that I should start doing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t-Xf615ssvA

Thanks in advance!
Click to expand...
Yay! A video to critique! See? I lurk because I care.

Okay well, I'll point out whatever I can find but it would be easier to critique if you could play against someone who isn't astronomically worse of a player than you are :ohwell: If you get a chance to send more clips, preferably offline, try to submit a match that you lost; or at least barely won.

0:07 - I'll just put it here but it applies to a lot of your double-jump Fairs. Against any opponent, but MK especially, it's important to save your double jump, because he can combo you off-stage and without that jump he can gimp you very easily. Also, Nair is a much better move than Fair to use against fast characters. MK can easily punish a whiffed Fair, so stick to Nairs and AC Bairs.
0:54 - Not sure if that was just lag or what but, work on that jab cancel timing. And remember that MK can Shuttle Loop out of jab cancels, so it's best to stick to the three hit combo against good MKs.
1:05 - You could have had the KO with an Uair there. Uair is always a better option that Dair when falling past someone. Nair is a better option than either of them.
1:34 - I don't think you even needed to use QD there anyways, but make sure you're DIing up against MK, Dsmash and Shuttle Loop are his favorite KO moves and they both send you out horizontally, the worst place for Ike to be. Basically you should never have to recover with QD... for exactly the reason demonstrated at 1:36.
2:11 - Don't know what the Aether was about there but... obviously not your best option, he could have punished it much worse than he did.

You definitely know what you're doing, but just be more mindful of how you use Fair and always remember to space properly. Double jumping to bait rolls and then punishing with an Fair is fine... unless the other player isn't taking the bait, in which case it's probably best to try a different approach. I liked your use of Usmash to KO. Otherwise just more jabs, and make sure to DI up against opponents with horizontal kill moves.

:034:
 
M4ge

M4ge

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jul 29, 2009
Messages
229
Thanks a lot, I'll work on using a lot more nair and jabs in the MU. I haven't played any recent Ike matches before yesterday, hopefully I'll get a better one for critique.
 
AN(M)ist

AN(M)ist

Smash Ace
Joined
Nov 14, 2009
Messages
641
Location
San Diego, California
NNID
abidmozaffar
3DS FC
1134-9541-1303
Nysyarc

Nysyarc

Last King of Hollywood
Joined
Apr 21, 2009
Messages
3,389
Location
Dartmouth, Nova Scotia
NNID
Nysyarc
3DS FC
1075-0983-2504
AN(M)ist said:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YO9WrdiSdHI

EDIT: I should add that since lance was wayy more experienced than me, i was really nervous the whole two matches
Click to expand...
No johns! Kidding, but keeping your head in the game is a major part of being able to win, so try to tell yourself that you can beat any opponent, don't think about how much more experience they have or the fact that they just 3-stocked a guy you can barely beat... when it comes to it we're all only human.

Here it goes:

0:11 - You do this quite a lot throughout the match but I'll bring it up now; rolling backwards is not a good idea against a projectile-user, especially Samus who has some pretty meaty ranged attacks. You need to close the distance and start jabbing, not retreat.
0:13 - When Samus is spamming missiles from that far away, jumping is often a much better way to avoid them than trying to spot-dodge and PS them all.
0:28 - Always watch Samus while you're approaching; 99% of good Samus players do that short-hop AD followed by a Zair, so as long as you're watching closely it's easy to avoid.
0:54 - A great spot to emphasize the no rolling backwards, you could have punished his grab with anything if you'd jumped or spot-dodged instead.
1:09 - Don't approach with a DA, it's easy to see coming and easier to punish. If you are going to use it, try to hit with the very tip of the sword.
2:12 - You can't be afraid to edge-guard; instead of standing around there you could have done some short hops off-stage to bait him into an AD and then punished the AD with a walk-off Fair or even a Dair for the KO. Rolling away is definitely not going to get you any gimps.
2:24 - Ike's grab isn't something to try more than once, the grab reward isn't even that good at such a high percent. If your opponent spot-dodges your first grab attempt, either get out of there fast or try jabbing.
3:16 - When dropping down through a platform like that, do something unexpected; jump back up momentarily to bait an attack, use one of the side platforms maybe. Ike can move vertically very fast, so surprise your opponents by dashing down one platform to another instead of just dropping straight and air-dodging.
4:03 - He seems to be DIing your first jab up a lot, you shouldn't always rely on just holding down A when jabbing. It can be helpful, but not always the best option. A jab -> grab would have worked perfectly right here.
4:11 - When you get a small window of opportunity to punish like that, go with jabs. They deal more damage and come out faster than a grab.
4:15 - If you ever get grabbed near the edge of the stage, or hit for that matter, hold up on the control stick. This will bend your flight trajectory up to the corner of the screen when the opponent inevitably throws you off-stage, making you harder to gimp and giving you more recovery options.
4:31 - Here's a little trick to try once in awhile on someone who's planking like that: Run back away from the edge briefly, then do a full-hop and QuickDraw back onto the platform above you (towards your opponent) so that the QD takes you right to the edge of it, then walk-off Dair over the edge. You'll either spike them, stage spike them, confuse them, accomplish nothing, or end up getting gimped if they manage to see it coming, but they shouldn't unless you've tried it before. It's a risk I like to take.
4:35 - Make sure you're spacing all of your Fairs. Try to hit with the tip of the sword and fall either straight down or backwards after the swing, not into your opponent.
4:58 - Never finish a jab combo if you won't hit anything, end it after the second or first jab so you won't be punished as easily.
5:52 - Obviously that could have been avoided by watching your opponent, you had plenty of time to air dodge or fast-fall away from it.

Okay so some key things: Less Dash Attack, and make sure you wait until middling percents (40-70% range) before trying Bthrow -> DA. Space your Fairs more carefully. Use Nair more for baiting, spacing and even comboing at low percents. Mix up your jab game a bit, try canceling your first jab into a grab sometimes and make sure you're not completing all three hits of the jab combo if they won't connect with anything.

Don't roll backwards so much, and try to vary the ways that you approach a projectile-camper. Jump and air-dodge occasionally and mix in some PSing on the ground, but make sure you get close to them as fast as you can. Make good use of the platforms on BF and other stages like Lylat, PS1, etc... you'll read a lot about how platforms disrupt most characters' projectile games, but that's only true if you use the platforms properly.

I hope that all made sense, if not feel free to ask me to clarify and I'll get into a bit more detail. You're a pretty good Ike, but there's definitely room to improve; keep at it!

:034:
 
AN(M)ist

AN(M)ist

Smash Ace
Joined
Nov 14, 2009
Messages
641
Location
San Diego, California
NNID
abidmozaffar
3DS FC
1134-9541-1303
@Nysyarc, Thanks for the critique. yeah there are a few things I would appreciate if you would clarify for me:

Nysyarc said:
1:09 - Don't approach with a DA, it's easy to see coming and easier to punish. If you are going to use it, try to hit with the very tip of the sword.
Click to expand...
Just want to know since you and other veterans here emphasize this a lot, does hitting with the tip help only because its safe (due to big distance) or is there more horizontal knockback for tipping? Also, is ike's blade like marth's (tip = more knockback)? No one in the ike guide really said something about this so idk.

Nysyarc said:
2:12 - You can't be afraid to edge-guard; instead of standing around there you could have done some short hops off-stage to bait him into an AD and then punished the AD with a walk-off Fair or even a Dair for the KO. Rolling away is definitely not going to get you any gimps.
Click to expand...
Is there an easier way to pull of a walkoff dair without fastfalling and without setting the cstick to attack?

Nysyarc said:
4:03 - He seems to be DIing your first jab up a lot, you shouldn't always rely on just holding down A when jabbing. It can be helpful, but not always the best option. A jab -> grab would have worked perfectly right here.
Click to expand...
If they DI up my jabs, can an up-tilt be guaranteed since they're above ike and up-tilt is a worthy killing move? Also, is jab to dtilt a true combo near the edge (opponent not touching the ground)?

Again, thanks a lot for your reply. I'll try to post another vid when I see a significant improvement in my gameplay.

*Begins planning*
 
Nysyarc

Nysyarc

Last King of Hollywood
Joined
Apr 21, 2009
Messages
3,389
Location
Dartmouth, Nova Scotia
NNID
Nysyarc
3DS FC
1075-0983-2504
AN(M)ist said:
Just want to know since you and other veterans here emphasize this a lot, does hitting with the tip help only because its safe (due to big distance) or is there more horizontal knockback for tipping? Also, is ike's blade like marth's (tip = more knockback)? No one in the ike guide really said something about this so idk.
Click to expand...
Unfortunately Ike's sword doesn't have the same effect as Marth's, and it's also not like Roy's from melee (more powerful in the thick of the blade). Kirk's Ike Data Compilation thread is an invaluable resource if you want to know knockback power and trajectory for different sections of Ike's sword; he even has hitbox visuals so you can see what the numbers mean.

AN(M)ist said:
Is there an easier way to pull of a walkoff dair without fastfalling and without setting the cstick to attack?
Click to expand...
Well, I'm no expert on this subject because I just use the attack stick, but apparently if you walk off and hold down only slightly (I assume before walking off, so you'll want to hold diagonally down) and tap A to do the Dair, you won't fast-fall. I've never tried it and I'm not even sure I explained it right, but I personally prefer the attack stick since it lets you do other things like jumping off-stage, waiting, and then using a Dair without fast-falling. The only thing smash stick is really useful for with Ike is smash DI... but since I suck at that anyways I prefer the attack stick.

AN(M)ist said:
If they DI up my jabs, can an up-tilt be guaranteed since they're above ike and up-tilt is a worthy killing move? Also, is jab to dtilt a true combo near the edge (opponent not touching the ground)?
Click to expand...
Jab -> Utilt is never 100% guaranteed, but it often works if used after a Jab1 because it does come out fast and most people will be expecting you to finish all three jabs. And yes, it is a very legit way of KOing people, I get a LOT of KOs from Jab -> Utilt. It's better than just using Utilt since the jab comes out faster. Things like Jab -> Ftilt and Jab -> Bair can also KO but aren't as easy to connect with... the opponent has to be really slow or gullible to let those hit.

Jab -> Dtilt is also never guaranteed, any character can air-dodge out of it and most are able to just grab the ledge before the Dtilt hitbox appears. Using two consecutive Jab1s and then a Dtilt can make it a bit easier if your opponent DIs up, but in most cases just one Jab followed by the Dtilt is your best bet. The easiest way to practice this and to test what characters it works on is to do it in training mode. You'll find that it's actually impossible to pull it off on some characters, even without DI (since they snap to the ledge too fast).

:034:
 
Shinde425

Shinde425

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Oct 12, 2009
Messages
102
Here's a video just to show-off my new and improved Ike. I want an opinion on my Ike, not critique in this one, since I win. But advice is always welcomed, I just want to know if I'm decent yet...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eTCIvDgtG4A
((I'm the white one, if it isn't clear from the get go. ^^))
 
theeboredone

theeboredone

Smash Legend
Joined
Mar 18, 2008
Messages
12,399
Location
Houston, TX
I'm just gonna give some general tips to you Shinde.

First off, your Di is just plain bad when it comes to getting out of jabs. You got jab canceled from Jab to Kick way too much. That stuff should not be connecting repeatedly. DI + SDI or something.

At roughly :35, after the jab combo, you airdodge through the edge...dumb, almost cost you.

You have a bad habit of holding your shield for a split second, then spot dodging the moment the opponent gets an opening on you. Whether if it's from behind you or in front.

1:15 I'm just gonna assume that was supposed to be a b-air but wifi made you look silly.

NEVER EVER do a reverse aether against Ike. You can easily get spiked or nailed. Don't do it unless you have to. You put yourself in a situation that could have easily been avoided (1:42).

1:52 pointless roll rofl. And why do you try to QD after getting thrown o_O? Stop being so fancy.

3:00 That QD is more fanciness. I guarantee you offline, you get punished for QD'ing straight into an opponent. Don't make a habit out of it.

3:11, bad DI, you shoulda died by your opponent edge hogging you.

So overall work on your DI, cut out the shenanigans with QD, and stop doing spot dodge everytime your opponent gets close to you.
 
Shinde425

Shinde425

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Oct 12, 2009
Messages
102
theeboredone said:
I'm just gonna give some general tips to you Shinde.

First off, your Di is just plain bad when it comes to getting out of jabs. You got jab canceled from Jab to Kick way too much. That stuff should not be connecting repeatedly. DI + SDI or something.

At roughly :35, after the jab combo, you airdodge through the edge...dumb, almost cost you.

You have a bad habit of holding your shield for a split second, then spot dodging the moment the opponent gets an opening on you. Whether if it's from behind you or in front.

1:15 I'm just gonna assume that was supposed to be a b-air but wifi made you look silly.

NEVER EVER do a reverse aether against Ike. You can easily get spiked or nailed. Don't do it unless you have to. You put yourself in a situation that could have easily been avoided (1:42).

1:52 pointless roll rofl. And why do you try to QD after getting thrown o_O? Stop being so fancy.

3:00 That QD is more fanciness. I guarantee you offline, you get punished for QD'ing straight into an opponent. Don't make a habit out of it.

3:11, bad DI, you shoulda died by your opponent edge hogging you.

So overall work on your DI, cut out the shenanigans with QD, and stop doing spot dodge everytime your opponent gets close to you.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the tips. =) But this was offline fun matches with my friend who's been teaching me a lot between classes in my school's gameroom (fitting place to learn smash, eh? in a school ^^). Like I know you saw my old videos that I drew attention to on AiB and my Ike isn't what it used to be at all, I feel like that maybe I can do alright at a tourney now with my Ike. ^^ I reverse Aether'd because I thought I was under the lip either that or I just plained accidentally turned it around xP and 3:11 was because he loves to smack me outta my aether because he never could just slide onto the ledge. Oh and how can I DI safely out of jab-cancels, if I DI back it could be used to my own doom...

And I did get punished at 3:00, haha. I don't try to make a huge habit outta it. I QD to draw close, that's why it can be a little frequent.

Also one last thing, can you give me advice on the spot dodge problem? Like should I just hold shield? Or should I do something else?
 
theeboredone

theeboredone

Smash Legend
Joined
Mar 18, 2008
Messages
12,399
Location
Houston, TX
Shinde425 said:
^^ I reverse Aether'd because I thought I was under the lip either that or I just plained accidentally turned it around xP and 3:11 was because he loves to smack me outta my aether because he never could just slide onto the ledge. Oh and how can I DI safely out of jab-cancels, if I DI back it could be used to my own doom...

And I did get punished at 3:00, haha. I don't try to make a huge habit outta it. I QD to draw close, that's why it can be a little frequent.

Also one last thing, can you give me advice on the spot dodge problem? Like should I just hold shield? Or should I do something else?
Click to expand...
First statement. You went under the lip because you tried to do a pointless F-air. The opponent was walking away from the edge, and you were in no position to double jump f-air onto stage. That's why I said it was a bad decision on your part.

Second statement. 3:11. Then he doesn't know the basics of playing off stage. The fact he failed to grab the edge doesn't excuse your bad DI. If you had DI'ed well, there would have been NO REASON for you to NOT get back on stage.

Safely jab out of jab cancels by either DI + SDI up, away, or towards Ike so you end up behind them. Takes practice.

Your spot dodging problem is a habit. Using your shield more is generally a better option, but it depends on your opponent. You don't want to be prone to grabbing vs an IC or DDD main, while against Ike, the first thing on his mind should be jab. Just think logically and try to see what your opponent is doing.
 
metroid1117

metroid1117

Smash Master
Joined
Sep 1, 2005
Messages
3,786
Location
Chester, IL
KickKickFlip said:
what SDI? I know what DI is but...
Click to expand...
When any attack connects, there is a certain amount of lag in which the character who got hit and the attacker freeze momentarily (unless it's a projectile, then it's just the character who got hit); this period is called hitlag (not to be confused with hitstun, which is the period after hitlag in which your character cannot perform an action). If you smash a direction on either the Control stick or the C-stick during hitlag, your character will actually shift slightly in that direction. This slight shift, however, is enough to allow you to escape some multi-hit attacks and quick strings like Snake's NAir/DAir and Ike's jab cancels. Note, however, that if you set your C-stick to "Attack" that you cannot SDI or DI with the C-stick.

For more information, watch Overswarm's video on DI.

And wow, this is my first post in a month... lurking is fun.

EDIT: For a useful application of SDI, watch Overswarm's video on how to escape Snake's multi-hit attacks.
 
Shinde425

Shinde425

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Oct 12, 2009
Messages
102
theeboredone said:
First statement. You went under the lip because you tried to do a pointless F-air. The opponent was walking away from the edge, and you were in no position to double jump f-air onto stage. That's why I said it was a bad decision on your part.

Second statement. 3:11. Then he doesn't know the basics of playing off stage. The fact he failed to grab the edge doesn't excuse your bad DI. If you had DI'ed well, there would have been NO REASON for you to NOT get back on stage.

Safely jab out of jab cancels by either DI + SDI up, away, or towards Ike so you end up behind them. Takes practice.

Your spot dodging problem is a habit. Using your shield more is generally a better option, but it depends on your opponent. You don't want to be prone to grabbing vs an IC or DDD main, while against Ike, the first thing on his mind should be jab. Just think logically and try to see what your opponent is doing.
Click to expand...
Yeah, I noticed the spot dodging thing, haha. And uber thanks for the tips Bored, I really appreciate 'em. What do you mean by "safely jab
outta jab cancels," though? I guess I really do need to think more logically, I suppose. It would certainly help me develop nasty situations to work towards in other MUs outside of ditto matches. ^^ Thanks again, Bored. Does anyone think I've improved from what I used to be though (if you remember my old vids I posted on AiB)? Just curious...
 
theeboredone

theeboredone

Smash Legend
Joined
Mar 18, 2008
Messages
12,399
Location
Houston, TX
My mistake on the "Safely jab out of jab cancels" statement. I meant to say "Safely DI out of jab cancels". Forgot to look over that when re-reading my post. In any case, yea you sucked pretty bad in your earlier videos from what I recall. You've made some good progress. I recommend trying to hit the local scene so you can get more experience.
 
Shinde425

Shinde425

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Oct 12, 2009
Messages
102
Now, by local scene, do you mean local tournies? If so, then I don't know of any and I'd be all over them if I knew of them. ^^ So as of now, I have Hustle and BigDM to learn from (doubt if you heard of them). They've brought me from where I was to where I am now, so I feel they're ok to learn from.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Bottom