The Melee Matchup Chart for Mid Level Play

KirbyKaze · Jan 26, 2011

This is an extremely important endeavor.

We all know MUs change at the various levels of play, so I think a chart that demonstrates what it's like to play a character before you're good with them would be a useful thing to have. Because many people never have any intention of moving beyond mid level play, a MU chart that only accommodates high level play is useless to them and highly discriminatory.

Obviously characters that are easily killed in single punishes, or with high learning curves (in terms of tech skill or otherwise) are going to drop immensely. Fox and Falco will likely drop a few points in each of their MUs. It can be debated whether or not Jigglypuff should rise. In my local region, she dominates the mid/low level players really hard because of U-throw Rest so I think it is logical to at least up her vs. space animals scores.

We will also have to, of course, define mid level play. Finding a crucial mistake amount and range will be essential.

Ministry · Jan 26, 2011

your to good to care about us mid levelers

KirbyKaze · Jan 26, 2011

You're mid level?

WHOA BURN

BigWenz · Jan 26, 2011

marth for number 1. at low lvl play the simplicity of marth makes him really easy to use.

KirbyKaze · Jan 26, 2011

I see your Marth and raise you Peach.

Ministry · Jan 26, 2011

i call marth and peach and go all in with sheik.

but srs.

Sheik
Puff
marth
peach
falco
fox

doesnt matter after that

The Irish Mafia · Jan 26, 2011

pichu should obviously be higher due to chaingrabs on many characters and an adaptable recovery. at mid level play this is difficult to deal with/avoid

KirbyKaze · Jan 26, 2011

I want to put Sheik and Marth above Puff and Peach but the issue I have is that those characters F-tilt/F-smash at point blank and get shield grabbed for it at mid level play

Although sometimes people fail the shield grab/WD OOS punish at mid level play

Hmmm

This is more complicated than I initially anticipated

Blarg I'm Dead · Jan 26, 2011

IMO Marth doesn't change much at mid level play. He won't be as fast and his combos won't be as great due to still working on perfecting L-cancels. If you don't shield grab [or wavedash out of shield] his f-smash you're an idiot. It's far from a broken move. Maybe it's broken in low level or scrub "I don't know which button shield is" play, but far from it even at mid level.

Kira- · Jan 26, 2011

Gotta be Sheik right? I was thinking Falco too, he's pretty good with decent tech skill. "Mid-level" is kinda hard to define, but assuming they don't suck I'd say Sheik and Falco are the best, they're difficult to deal with until you get better

Also I would agree with Peach

KirbyKaze · Jan 26, 2011

At mid level play Falco is hard countered by Jigglypuff shield grab U-throw Rest, however, which hurts him

Seikend · Jan 26, 2011

So how are we defining mid-level here?

Kind of ignored that point and went straight to match ups.

What would you base it on? Mindset, knowledge, techskill etc. or how you would place in tournament?

KirbyKaze · Jan 26, 2011

I guess some of the people who'd be eliminated in like R2 pools at Pound 4.

Dark Hart · Jan 26, 2011

This thread is a hate crime

Roneblaster · Jan 26, 2011

KirbyKaze said:
I guess some of the people who'd be eliminated in like R2 pools at Pound 4.

...........****

FoxLisk · Jan 26, 2011

hey i consider myself a mid level player and i almost never get shield grabbed. at least not by jigglypuff... she's too short and her grab range is bad.

Point being: what is mid-level play?

Ripple · Jan 26, 2011

sheik is god tier

ganon is probably like 4th best

link is high tier also

KirbyKaze · Jan 26, 2011

FoxLisk said:
hey i consider myself a mid level player and i almost never get shield grabbed. at least not by jigglypuff... she's too short and her grab range is bad.

Point being: what is mid-level play?

LuigiLover62 is mid level play

Melomaniacal · Jan 26, 2011

I feel like people are going to underestimate mid-level. Even low-level isn't terrible, assuming we're strictly speaking in terms of tournament level players. A mid-level tournament player should have his technical skill down, and is really only being held back by the inability to make more sophisticated decisions and reactions.

Even a low-level player should slaughter casual players.

KirbyKaze · Jan 26, 2011

Would you say that ICG is a mid level player?

Dr Peepee · Jan 26, 2011

lmfao KK nice

Melomaniacal · Jan 26, 2011

KirbyKaze said:
Would you say that ICG is a mid level player?

He plays Melee?

I thought he was just on Smashboards and that was it.

KirbyKaze · Jan 26, 2011

ICG basically is the Pichu metagame.

Similarly, in my personal experience with mid level players, they often lose to Jigglypuff shenanigans like random error --> get Rested. Though it has also been brought to my attention that mid level Jigglypuffs also get death combo'd remarkably often despite her immunity to combos so I may have overestimated her power.

Ripple · Jan 26, 2011

Reneblade is a mid level player

KirbyKaze · Jan 26, 2011

Idea is a mid level player.

Melomaniacal · Jan 26, 2011

KirbyKaze said:
ICG basically is the Pichu metagame.

Similarly, in my personal experience with mid level players, they often lose to Jigglypuff shenanigans like random error --> get Rested. Though it has also been brought to my attention that mid level Jigglypuffs also get death combo'd remarkably often despite her immunity to combos so I may have overestimated her power.

Is that really saying much?

I think Puff is a match up that just takes especially long to handle correctly. I mean, I guess that's arguable, but that's my opinion. So, yeah, mid-level players do poorly against Puff.

Ripple · Jan 26, 2011

you should probably just do tier list instead of match up chart

j00t · Jan 26, 2011

Roneblaster said:
...........****

yeah you're mid level

it sucks because by Kaze's definition I am below mid-level

/IdrArage

KirbyKaze · Jan 26, 2011

I think at mid level, since people make more mistakes, Puff making the match longer is beneficial to her because it opens up more opportunities for the non-Puff character to fail and get Rested.

JWT2k6 is mid level.

Grim Tuesday · Jan 26, 2011

Melomaniacal said:
I feel like people are going to underestimate mid-level. Even low-level isn't terrible, assuming we're strictly speaking in terms of tournament level players. A mid-level tournament player should have his technical skill down, and is really only being held back by the inability to make more sophisticated decisions and reactions.

Even a low-level player should slaughter casual players.

I like this definition.

sauc3 · Jan 26, 2011

i feel like a kid with special needs being compensated with an extra half hour of exam time while reading this thread.

Brookman · Jan 26, 2011

This is my point of view @ mid level play.

Mid level player vs. mid levels player really comes down to who has the most simple, automatic combos. To this notion I would place sheik @ the top. Except for one other very important aspect. HER RECOVERY. Mid level sheik players don't know how to recover.

IN MY OPINION MID LEVEL HAS MARTH FALCO AT TOP. Mainly because mid level players don't know how to deal with lasers. Even if the falco player only lasers mindlessly.

Marth/falco
peach
fox
puff/sheik
GANON
falcon
bunch of other characters...

As for match ups?

I don't really know because mid-level play is so encompassing.

Assuming the levels of play go something like

low
mid
high
top

low level is basically no knowledge of person v. person game play.
mid level is knowledge and mild amounts of application of technicality with little regard to person vs. person.
high level would be higher placing local tournament players with
top being the higher placing national players.

high level players can play on a high level but often succumb to poor decision making and or lack of experience and/or fundamental strategical concepts.

top level players still **** most high level players and only lose to other top level players. High level players can still play at a top level but don't do so consistently enough to place high at large scale events.

ICE CLIMBERS ARE BOTTOM TIER @ mid level LOL

edit:

Case in point: http://www.smashboards.com/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=12060167

LowFatHat · Jan 26, 2011

I think there are too many different factors that need to be taken into account to determine what midlevel is.
Maybe somebody has full control of their character, but has trouble coming in clutch when it comes to finishing combos, or whatever.
Maybe someone has remarkable DI, or good mindgames, or adapts well midplay, but they lack in sheer comboing ability, or edgeguarding, or gimping.

I feel that any mid level player still has their own ups and downs in the game. There's no real way to determine matchups solely based on a group of people that you can't truly define

Pogogo · Jan 26, 2011

ur dumb if u think ics are low tier at mid level. U guys are underestimating fox. Upsmash, upthrow up air and nair shine are all u need.

Brookman · Jan 26, 2011

There's really only one way to play this game. Players who don't play correctly are mid level.

Aceplayer · Jan 26, 2011

Crap if Idea is mid level, I'm low level lawlwllwlwwll

Pogogo · Jan 26, 2011

...that is the loosest statement ever. So u cant play either fox or falco only fox. No items fd?

Edit:aceplayer we should play each other it would be close lol

Roneblaster · Jan 26, 2011

thanks for the support guys, but on an average day im not actually a mid level player according to KK. if ur disputing KK's definition then ok, but not according to KK.

id like to think i could atleast be mid tier according to KK, but i never play.

KirbyKaze · Jan 26, 2011

You could be.

Pretty much anyone can be.

-ACE- · Jan 26, 2011

lol @ this thread.

The Melee Matchup Chart for Mid Level Play

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