I Can't Quite Figure It Out...

Link to original post: [drupal=3992]I Can't Quite Figure It Out...[/drupal]



So, I was playing earlier today online and offline and like, I can't quite figure out what is wrong with me. Like, I don't make smart decisions, I can't mix-up approaches and I'm just horribly inconsistent. With Sonic, I couldn't mix-up approaches and I just fell into stupid patterns. I look at other players and they are just great at doing the right things and not being predictable. Then I look at myself and I can call out every move I'm going to make without fail. I recently quit Sonic because I felt like I couldn't take him as far as all the other mains. I'm essentially holding him back with my mediocre results. I'm pretty consistent in placing badly. Out of 49? I'm probably taking 25th or 33rd. Out of 21? 17th. I picked up MK and ICs because I needed a change. I realize that I'm not smart enough nor skilled enough to go far with my favorite character. MK doesn't require a WHOLE lot of thinking to do decently with. ICs are more or less my "I hate fighting this character with MK and they **** all over them" secondary. I, haven't noticed much of a change. I feel like I've plateaued or something. I need some advice, preferably from someone who is actually good and good at giving advice. Any takers?

I'll help you excel. once you have that AHA! moment, you won't need anyone's help but your own.

don't you worry. I know how to make people achieve it

Ripple said:

I'll help you excel. once you have that AHA! moment, you won't need anyone's help but your own.

don't you worry. I know how to make people achieve it

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Can't you get that moment in like every match up you play though?

Zeton said:

Can't you get that moment in like every match up you play though?

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I don't think so. it's rare to get. most people don't get that very first one. once you get that first one you can take your character far. like top 8 consistantly.

a 2nd one? you become someone like atomsk, kain, shugo, or ultimate razer

3rd? ally, ADHD, Gnes, DEHF, m2k only

Ripple said:

I don't think so. it's rare to get. most people don't get that very first one. once you get that first one you can take your character far. like top 8 consistantly.

a 2nd one? you become someone like atomsk, kain, shugo, or ultimate razer

3rd? ally, ADHD, Gnes, DEHF, m2k only

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hmmm I can see that.

Why do we lose at fighting games? Because we make poor decisions.

Why do we make poor decisions? Tournament pressure is one. Lack of knowledge is another (if you don't know about IC CGs for instance, you're going to get grabbed; but also the personal kind, that is, not knowing what your opponent is about to do). Technical mistakes can cause poor decisions (even if it's not a "decision", strictly speaking). Maybe more I'm not thinking of.

How do we eliminate poor decisions? For knowledge, learning (characters, stages, opponents' patterns, etc.); for technique, practice; for pressure, focus. I'm great at shutting out the crowds, but my techskill and knowledge (particularly of my opponents) are lacking, therefore I suck and it shows. M2K knows, like, everything and has very precise technique, making him the top Brawl player and ~3rd (?) Melee player. (Couldn't tell ya about tournament pressure, you'd have to ask him yourself.)

-How do we learn? Observation is one. "Education" (reading stuff here) is another.
-How do we practice? Pick up a controller and play.
-How do we focus? It differs from person to person. Some people can shut out the crowd entirely (the one thing I'm good at). Others "feed on the hype", so to speak. Some people use music to drown out background noise. This is one you'll have to find yourself.

--But most importantly, always be thinking. You could know everything about MK, have 100% techskill and have played M2K a thousand times, but you'll still lose to him if you aren't applying those skills. You could do PDTOOS, Nietono Step, BDACUS, etc. a thousand times in training mode, but you'll screw them up in tournament if you aren't paying attention while you do it. (Or if you aren't paying attention, you could probably do them in tournament if you're good at the game not thinking about things--if you think about them, you'll screw them up.)

tl;dr To win, you must learn (both the game and the players), focus, and practice, AND be always thinking so you can apply those skills.

:obiwan:

That was a good post.
What the hell are PDTOOS and Nietono Step though? Have I missed something in the past few months of not paying attention to brawl? o_o

I'd help if I could, Excel, but I don't really know what to say. I have inconsistency problems myself, I'd say my biggest obstacle is learning to read my opponent better, which I could possibly get better at if I had a variety of people to practice against often, but there's no one around here lol.

Th3 Asdioh said:

That was a good post.
What the hell are PDTOOS and Nietono Step though? Have I missed something in the past few months of not paying attention to brawl? o_o

I'd help if I could, Excel, but I don't really know what to say. I have inconsistency problems myself, I'd say my biggest obstacle is learning to read my opponent better, which I could possibly get better at if I had a variety of people to practice against often, but there's no one around here lol.

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PDTOOS = Platform dropthrough out of shield. Basically, get on a passthrough platform, put up your shield, lightly press down.

Nietono step... it's hard to explain and REALLY difficult. I'd suggest you search around for it. (IDK, maybe we renamed it.)

Oreo (Excel) said:

I've been considering giving Sonic another go. I'm not too sure though.

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you are so much better than you think you are with him. how long have you been playing sonic? 2-3 years? there are things you learn over that long that you don't even realize and with picking up a new character it'll take that long again

1. Knowledge- You have to know your character, all the little advanced techs/tricks it's capable of. You have to know the matchups of other characters. You have to know brawl. An example would be when you're in kill range, and your opponent does not have a powerful grab or guarantee combo out of grab, stay in your shield when in range, especially since this game has very little shield stun. Another example is deciding when to challenge an attack, or when to attempt to gain stage control. You can do both at once. Say game and watch challenges you with an aerial, you of course would shuttle loop them and walk under them ready to punish his d-air or air dodge.

You have to learn how to fight against your opponent, rather than your opponents character. It's a skill to pick up on a player's tendencies of approach, reactions off of trips/techs, air dodges, etc. With that you also have to know what your character can do against all of these tendencies. Probably the most important find about a player is something you did in which they don't know the answer to stop it. Rather than playing the matchup the "right way", you try and put your opponent into the same situation time and time again till they beat it.

Coming from a rather mediocre melee background and not owning a wii, my brawl and metaknight knowledge is atrocious. I just learned last week that you can d-tilt without crouching, air dodge to pick up items, and how to do that platform cancel/waveland thingy. Only reason I think I do remotely decent at tournies is my ability to fight the player. (same thing for melee as your grandma probably has more tech skill than I do.)

2. Tech skill. You need to learn how to be as fast and fluid as possible with both aggression and retreat. If you're opponent is faster than you, you're already at a disadvantage, and no amount of knowledge can help you when you're in unnecessary lag while your opponent is free to move.

Another important aspect of tech skill is consistency. You must learn to punish air dodges, punish lucario's forward roll, diddy/falco's sidestep, powershield specific attacks, not drop chain grabs, land your pivot grabs, buffer necessary moves, etc with 100% consistency. If you mess it up, you just got yourself grabbed or ko'd whereas it should've been your time to punish. Do this enough times in a match, you just lost yourself the set. If you know something is coming and you can't EXECUTE the punishment, your knowledge/good play is a LIABILITY.


To break the knowledge barrier you have to search out what you're looking for in forums, communication with good players, and video analysis. To break the tech skill barrier, practice your movements/punishments that you are weak in and/or which benefit your character the most. Sometimes it can take a stupid amount of time, and it seems that many others are able to improve and learn things faster. However, with the necessary effort (lots of time and train smart with your time), you will improve.

P.S. If mixups are your problem, when you're playing wifi, limit or don't do your typical approach. If you're tornado or d-air camp happy against a particular character, don't tornado/dair camp the next few matches. Just try different things and figure out what works and when it works. You'll probably be losing those matches, but you are learning and improving in the long run. Like if all you do is run to the corner and start your little spin dash, try something else. (Sorry I'm bad with sonic analogies, I know nothing about that guy).

You just identified what you feel you're doing wrong - the first step to getting better. If you feel you're too predictable or can't mix up approaches, that's an easy fix; spend some time practicing different moves than you would normally do in those situations or alter the timings of the ones you already do. One thing you could try is going into a match and pause the game every few seconds. Say to yourself "what would be a good decision to make here?" Spend a few seconds doing that, then unpause and execute. It won't take long before your decision making improves drastically. It's kind of like what Mango said about Melee and decision making: "You only have to be smart once, and then just remember what you did."

Also, you made it sound like you picked up Metaknight/IC just to make your life easier. However, you should be looking at picking up different characters to expand your playstyle as well. I play a lot of characters, and that has helped me learn to expect what people like to do as those characters and how to counter appropriately. Learning other characters should help at least a little in taking something you picked up and applying that to your main.

I travelled 6 hours to help out my buddy excel last weekend.

you should update this blog to include me