Down Tilt : A Diamond in the Rough (Move Discussion)

Before I switched my control scheme over to Tilts for Walk-off Dair, I never used Down Tilt as an regular attack on the stage except by complete accident. Since I constantly kept forgetting that my Cstick is set to tilts, I always tried to do a Down Smash and ended up with this. Here's the kicker though:

This move has been more useful than Down Smash ever has been.

What would turn some people off at first is the "poor" range of the move when in actuality it's not terrible for what it does.

Let's overview it:

Hits on frame 16. That's three frames after Dsmash and Up tilt and a frame before Ftilt. It's not terribly fast, nor is it slow. 1/4 of a second of start up time, essentially.


Does 14% on hit if fresh. It's pretty solid for some quick damage, but that's not what you're particularly looking for.

Has two hitboxes, the base (which can shieldpoke) and sends a ridiculous amount forward if hit, makes for a good killer and I find it often leads into a Dash Attack for me at low percents. It even has nice shieldpush, so that's useful.

Very powerful spike on any hitbox other than the base of the sword which sends straight up. It's a great positioning move to follow up with something depending on how they react. I'm not sure what the combos are (if any) but at the very least it ends with Ike on the ground and them nearby in the air.

Ends on frame 55 if using IASA frames. It's a little over half a second of vulnerability time if it misses, but that's much better than Dsmash's near second.

In short, I just really like to use this move a few times per match if they aren't expecting it. It either sets up for follow-ups, kills or grants a nice positional advantage in addition to doing good damage.


What do you guys think about it?

I use it sometims after jab cancels and they fall for it. Otherwise I prefer jabs, grabs, nairs, utilt and fairs for damage and ftilt, fsmash, usmash, bair, uair and third A hit (through jab canceling you can keep it fresh and kill with it in the edge at 120% or so) for finishers. I'm not a friend of dsmash neither.

I honestly don't use it much besides spiking, and when sliding down the steeper part of the fin on Corneria. If you SH, then hold down just at the right spot (right around the bend in the fin) and keep holding down, you'll slide down until the incline of the next piece begins. However, the only moves you can do without stopping are Dtilt and Counter. I use Down Smash even less. But thats because I almost never have the opponent behind me. Mainly because I'm struggling to work Bair into my game more. >_>

I use Dtilt only as a spike, and rarely in the heat of the battle. Not that there's anything wrong with Dtilt, it's just that I prefer to use Ike's quicker line of attacks or grabs. The only time when I use it aside from a spike is when I jab cancel into it and because it's a rarely used move to begin with, it makes it more of a suprise.

If I'm facing a person who dashes a lot I use D-Tilt, or I use it for edge spiking. D-Tilt I've never found that bad, and I'm with you, D-Smash sucks really badly. It usually starts up a series of moves for me, since they head straight in the air, I usually U-Air. There's a lot of other things you can do, but that's mainly what I do.

Hino: Why are you saying DSmash is bad? for one thing it's fast, and hits on both sides of Ike while having a hitbox on the opposite side of Ragnell striking if you are careless to get within touching range of Ike.

Anyway back on topic, I find DTilt alright... I never use it except for a spike or on accident though. I am probably just not very good with landing it perhaps.

Down smash is worthlesssss except for being a true combo out of an unrepeated first jab.

But that's what I like about DSmash, it has so much Power!

I love this move because people would never expect an Ike to use this except for spiking. During close combat, I pull this out after a jab cancel sometimes. Depending on which part a hit with (the sword or the hilt) determines what I do next.

The sword (the part that spikes) will shoot up the opponent if they're grounded. I do a u-air if there's enough time to perform one, a retreating f-air, or a b-air. Aether could work too but it's easy to DI out of. The damage % of the opponent can help on what move to perform.

The hilt (non-spike) send you opponent diagonally. I find it best for the hilt to hit when hear the edge. When my opponent recovers, I f-air, b-air or attempt to reverse Aether when they get near the ledge.

The best time to use it is for (of course) spiking. If your opponent does aim for the ledge, d-tilt them. If you spike them, one less stock for you to deal with. If not, do what I previously said about the hilt part.

@Kinzer: Smash is pretty bad for it's purpose. It's comes out quick, but only on the first part. It has low knockback on the front part, and more on the back, but the back-side comes out so slow compared to other D-Smashes that it easily gets trumped by U-Smash, which is basically a better version of D-Smash by a long shot.

I've used Jab -> D-tilt before quite a few times. Pretty good too. Obviously has numerous amount of hitstun due to it being a spike, although I wish the hitbox of the hilt was much bigger. The spike hitbox is great and all, but the hilt hitbox is just freaken awesome.

Oh, and I use it as a spike. Meh.

it has 3 hit boxes. Utilt always seems like the better choice unless your trying to spike.

Truth of the matter is I have no excuse not to up tilt but I still rarely if ever do it, and it's such a good move too.

The main reason why DTilt is disliked is because of their relatively low range and standard cool-down time. While you provide good points as to how its speed compares to Ike's other attacks, you're not mentioning that it has the least range out of all of Ike's tilts and the most cool-down time, which makes it a very risky move. The second, more powerful hitbox doesn't help very much because at that range a smart opponent will be jabbing or grabbing to keep control of the match; if it was used to punish a roll or spot-dodge, USmash or FTilt would be better choices if they're fresh. Also, the hitbox itself, disregarding its size, is very limited; unlike Ike's other ground attacks (except DSmash, which just isn't a good move), it cannot hit opponents in the air unless they're right on top of Ike.

I'm not trying to turn you off from using DTilt; I'm just skeptical as to how someone can use it without getting severely punished. In theory, it seems like a bad move; if you can provide examples as to how it can be used in combat, however, that would be a different story. Do you have any videos of yourself or another Ike using DTilt regularly in an effective manner?

EDIT: What the crap, how were there 10 posts in the past 43 minutes?

@Xace - I think if Light is only talking about DTilt, you could perhaps make a strategic guide to Ike's moveset IN WHOLE. However if he does turn this into a moveset discussion... you can do something like what Rickerdy-Doo-Da-Day has on the Peach boards and make a "How does Ike counter [insert specific character here]'s [insert move here]?" thread.

@Hero - Well then I guess I just like DSmash too much then.

@Metroid - We're all bored.

Yeah, I really only use this move against Snake.

metroid1117 said:

EDIT: What the crap, how were there 10 posts in the past 43 minutes?

Click to expand...

Obviously since the Match-up thread is at a standstill, this is the only smart topic to post on and we all jumped on it.

I don't think I ever use this move.
Except for once or twice.
>_>

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=165745&page=3

meh.

dtilt works great on tall characters. Shield poking them at the bottom. Also it can stop Falco's and Fox's side B. But I did pull out out dtilt on a Sonic who did a spinshot straight at me to recover and I dtilt him to his death lol. Most of these are like once in a set things though.