• Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!

    You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!

A brief guide on Cross-ups

Pierce7d

Wise Hermit
Joined
Dec 20, 2006
Messages
6,289
Location
Teaneck, North Bergen County, NJ, USA
3DS FC
1993-9028-0439
I got a message earlier and realized that a very great number of inexperienced players aren't using a fundamental tactic in fighter games to boost their performance, so once again, this simple thread isn't really designed for the vets, but for the inexperienced and the intermediate players. Today, I'm going to talk about cross-ups.

What is a cross-up:
A cross-up is a term used in fighting games used to indicate that you landed behind your opponent, rather than in front of them. Generally, in most fighters, cross-ups are done out of aerial attacks. However, since you can simply and feasibly pass through your opponent in Brawl, grounded cross-ups are possible as well, it's simply more difficult and risky.

Why are cross-ups useful:
Cross-ups are very important in Brawl, because of how the shield system works. While your opponent is shielding, they can choose an OOS option (out of shield option)such as grabbing, jumping from the shield into an aerial, or dropping the shield into a (preferably fast) attack. Grabbing is generally the fastest option your opponent has for reacting. However, if you cross-up (land behind your opponent when you land) then shield grabbing is no longer an possibility for them. This puts you at much better advantage, especially if you have fast options to pressure your opponent.

How do I use cross-ups:
To execute a typical aerial cross-up, you almost must anticipate a shield. Depending on the move you use, you need to either delay your attack, so you hit the back of the shield after you go over or pass through your opponent (used with moves that also hit behind you usually, like Mario's or Marth's Uair), or use a a multi-hit attack that will allow you to pass through your opponent while pressuring them (Like Mario's Dair or Pit's Nair)

To execute a grounded cross-up, you probably want a fast character (I really wouldn't recommend Ganon or Bowser). Simply anticipate your opponent shielding or spot dodging when you are close together, and quickly run to the other side of them. Generally, Pivot grabs, sideB, and Bairs are accompanied by this technique.

How do I fight an opponent that likes to use cross-ups a lot:
There are several key-ways to beat cross ups. My favorite way is to perform a retreating pivot grab. This technique is most popular with Olimar and Yoshi, but I think you'll be surprised on how far it reaches even with non-tether characters, and it really hinders approaches, especially cross-up attempts.

You can also simply attack, using well spaced aerials. However, if your opponent is competent, they will probably not attempt a cross-up unless you are shielding. Rolling toward the direction they are approaching from will thwart a cross-up attempt.

Is there anything else I need to know:

  • If you get too predictable with cross-ups, your opponent will simply hit you. Use this technique intelligently. Remember, you have to over-commit to an approach, but you also get better advantage, especially if you catch your opponent off-guard.
  • RARing (reverse aerial rushing) is a technique in which you cancel the animation of turning from a dash around with a jump and turn around so that you can move backwards in the air with forward momentum. Most times, it is useful for approaching or zoning your opponent with a Bair. You can also use RAR to cross-up, and it will allow you to land behind your opponent while facing them, buying you even more advantage.
  • Most people will still consider it a cross-up if you are behind your opponent and land in front of them. While this obviously isn't always advisable, because you give them the option of shield-grabbing, it's still good for mindgames.
  • Be cautious of using cross-ups too frequently on characters with exceptionally fast Bairs, such as Ike.
  • Many characters such as Lucario or DK find that Utilting after an empty cross-up is successful. They don't have to turn around, and you can't shieldgrab them even if you don't drop your shield.

Feel free to ask any questions, address anything I missed, etc
 

Hence

Smash Ace
Joined
Dec 7, 2008
Messages
745
Location
Georgia
Way to peak my interest, Pierce.

If someone could perfect a cross-up into a pivot, it would be extrordinary. For instance, take ZSS vs. Ice Climbers. Ice Climbers see you rushing twords them so they shield and predict a dash attack or shielded approach. The Ice Climbers go for a grab only to find out you're behind them pivot Down Tilting or Down Smashing. Although, pivot jabs would be the most practical because the hitbox comes out in one frame. It reminds me of a forward roll without the lag and predictability.
 

Bellioes

Smash Lord
Joined
Jan 5, 2009
Messages
1,096
Location
Montreal, QC
Wait I dont get it. You cancel your dash into a shield behind them? And then pivot to whatever? And whats a shielded approach?

Sorry but Im really not understanding your wording :(
 

Hence

Smash Ace
Joined
Dec 7, 2008
Messages
745
Location
Georgia
Wait I dont get it. You cancel your dash into a shield behind them? And then pivot to whatever? And whats a shielded approach?

Sorry but Im really not understanding your wording :(
Cancel a dash into a shield in front of them and dash into a pivot behind them. This is basically relying on the opponent's missed attack or grab. More likely than not they'll have their shield up as well.
A shielded approach is when you approach only to setup your shield.
You can pivot specials without setting up your shield though.
 

LanceStern

Smash Lord
Joined
Aug 2, 2005
Messages
1,636
Location
San Diego, CA. (619)
Level 9 CPUS (Ness, Lucas, Yoshi, Diddy Kong, Metaknight, Fox, Falco) use aerial crossups very nicely, it's really annoying.

I'd like to suggest that when attempting crossups to have a character with extremely fast options and good aerial mobility. It's very hard to cross up with Samus because she is floaty, Lucas/Yoshi/Metaknight/Falco/Ness cross up well because they have very good aerial approaches and options.

Turn on a level 9 and burn with anger at how well they get behind you.
 

Remzi

formerly VaBengal
Joined
Apr 20, 2008
Messages
3,398
Location
Fairfax, VA
NNID
Remziz4
3DS FC
0302-1081-8167
Regarding Hence's idea. Fox-trotting would probably be the way to go.

good thread. i've never found aerial crossups that useful in this game.

and while grounded crossups are more risky, they seem to be more rewarding. with marth at least.

like i use grounded DB crossups a good amount, and even SB on a rare occasion.

pierce, you talked using a SHDB1 crossup and I've been experimenting with it, but it seems like you're begging for punishment when you do this. how is it supposed to work?
 

Pierce7d

Wise Hermit
Joined
Dec 20, 2006
Messages
6,289
Location
Teaneck, North Bergen County, NJ, USA
3DS FC
1993-9028-0439
Regarding Hence's idea. Fox-trotting would probably be the way to go.

good thread. i've never found aerial crossups that useful in this game.

and while grounded crossups are more risky, they seem to be more rewarding. with marth at least.

like i use grounded DB crossups a good amount, and even SB on a rare occasion.

pierce, you talked using a SHDB1 crossup and I've been experimenting with it, but it seems like you're begging for punishment when you do this. how is it supposed to work?
If you haven't found aerial cross-ups that useful, you're doing it wrong. Marth can pressure the front of your shield, but I still cross-up quite a bit with Nair, Uair, and RARed Fair.

SHDB1 is actually more of a grounded cross-up, when I want to apply pressure to the back of my opponent's shield. Dash behind them, SHDB1 backwards as to hit their shield. This sets up for a Fair, Nair, or Uair to the back of the opponent's shield, and puts you in the right direction. From there you can grab, jab, dtilt, do another aerial, shieldbreaker, or Dancing Blade. If your opponent drops their shield, smash them.

Also, you are correct, that you can only do a true pivot out of an initial dash. Fox trotting into a Pivot behind your opponent makes this possible, but extremely difficult, and I wouldn't recommend it. Reliability is more important IMO.
 

Mota

"The snake, knowing itself, strikes swiftly"
Joined
Jul 19, 2008
Messages
4,063
Location
Australia | Melb
Haha Cross ups are great mindgames combined with pivot grab/attacks. Twas a nice read.
 

smasher01

Smash Ace
Joined
Sep 2, 2007
Messages
524
Location
Bremerton,WA
cross ups are too punishable you just need quick reflexes.

and when you cross up they can just drop their shield turn around and grab just as fast as shield grab.

or do i not understand the definition of crossups? plz tell
 

Xebenkeck

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 30, 2008
Messages
1,636
Location
My Head
ftilts are cross-ups worst nightmares. If your character has a good ftilt, you can defend against it fairly easy. Ftilts instantly pivot depending which way you press the joystick, so if they are shielding they can still hit you if they know that. Shiek, and lucas are really good at defending against it. Zelda and wolf suck at it. so its uses are limited but good thread none of the less.
 

-Mars-

Smash Hero
Joined
Jul 26, 2007
Messages
6,515
Location
UTAH
Since when was Bowser all of a sudden considered a slow character? iirc his run speed is actually pretty good......
 

smasher01

Smash Ace
Joined
Sep 2, 2007
Messages
524
Location
Bremerton,WA
ftilts are cross-ups worst nightmares. If your character has a good ftilt, you can defend against it fairly easy. Ftilts instantly pivot depending which way you press the joystick, so if they are shielding they can still hit you if they know that. Shiek, and lucas are really good at defending against it. Zelda and wolf suck at it. so its uses are limited but good thread none of the less.
snake will **** you insane f-tilt
 

smasher01

Smash Ace
Joined
Sep 2, 2007
Messages
524
Location
Bremerton,WA

Pro Tip: Pro Tip is only one word if you use the ED definition or something. It is a

Pro ---- Tip

As in, a tip from a pro.

:)

(Google it if you don't believe me)

Also Cross-Ups are extremely risky, with a medium reward. IMO
(Also Cross-Ups are extremely risky, with a medium reward. IMO)
true dat :)

omg sory on double post
 

etecoon

Smash Hero
Joined
May 31, 2009
Messages
5,731
good thread, another thing that should be noted is that this is very useful not just against grounded opponents but also in aerial/juggle situations or in edge guarding, really it changes their options more than if they were grounded because they have a fixed direction, they can't just turn around and ftilt or whatever so if they have bad options from behind then it helps a lot, I do this a lot when edge guarding as MK or with characters that have good pivot grabs like snake or marth it's really good against people coming down to the ground to just run behind them and grab them if they don't have good tools against it.
 

Pierce7d

Wise Hermit
Joined
Dec 20, 2006
Messages
6,289
Location
Teaneck, North Bergen County, NJ, USA
3DS FC
1993-9028-0439

Also Cross-Ups are extremely risky, with a medium reward. IMO
I disagree. I think it's essential for some characters, especially if you're good at spacing and reading. The important thing to remember about cross-ups is that it's most effective when your opponent is shielding. Say I'm Mario (a character I cross-up with extremely frequently.) I'm always zoning with Bairs. However, if my opponent dashes in and uses a sliding shield, my spacing will be messed up, and they have good grab range, I'm very likely to be grabbed if I commit to a Bair on their shield. At this point, I proceed to cross-up Uair, and all of a sudden, I'm in an extremely advantageous position of hitting the back of my opponent's shield with an extremely fast-auto canceled aerial. Now my opponent is screwed, because if I jab, it can stuff almost all OOS options, but if they keep shielding, they get grabbed. I can also read a roll away, which does harm me anyway, and I can resume Fireball camping.

good thread, another thing that should be noted is that this is very useful not just against grounded opponents but also in aerial/juggle situations or in edge guarding, really it changes their options more than if they were grounded because they have a fixed direction, they can't just turn around and ftilt or whatever so if they have bad options from behind then it helps a lot, I do this a lot when edge guarding as MK or with characters that have good pivot grabs like snake or marth it's really good against people coming down to the ground to just run behind them and grab them if they don't have good tools against it.
Extremely true. Juggle traps using cross-ups is amazing. Say D3 intends to Bair upon landing. You could shield it, but that runs the risk of B-reversal inhale owning you in a mindgame. Instead, running to the other side of him and pivot grabbing stuffs almost any attack he commits to, including airdodge.
 

C.box

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jan 24, 2009
Messages
231
Location
Miramar, FL.
Regarding Hence's idea. Fox-trotting would probably be the way to go.

good thread. i've never found aerial crossups that useful in this game.

and while grounded crossups are more risky, they seem to be more rewarding. with marth at least.

like i use grounded DB crossups a good amount, and even SB on a rare occasion.

pierce, you talked using a SHDB1 crossup and I've been experimenting with it, but it seems like you're begging for punishment when you do this. how is it supposed to work?

Btw for marth, he can cancel his foxtrot with his side b like sonic can so you can foxtrot behind someone and immediately use dancing blade. Not that great but it works.
 

Pierce7d

Wise Hermit
Joined
Dec 20, 2006
Messages
6,289
Location
Teaneck, North Bergen County, NJ, USA
3DS FC
1993-9028-0439
Btw for marth, he can cancel his foxtrot with his side b like sonic can so you can foxtrot behind someone and immediately use dancing blade. Not that great but it works.
No, actually, it's very great. I do this frequently. Didn't I mention it in the OP? Space the first hit into Dtilt and you're almost guaranteed damage.
 

SuSa

Banned via Administration
Joined
Jul 20, 2008
Messages
11,508
Location
planking while watching anime with Fino
I disagree. I think it's essential for some characters, especially if you're good at spacing and reading. The important thing to remember about cross-ups is that it's most effective when your opponent is shielding. Say I'm Mario (a character I cross-up with extremely frequently.) I'm always zoning with Bairs. However, if my opponent dashes in and uses a sliding shield, my spacing will be messed up, and they have good grab range, I'm very likely to be grabbed if I commit to a Bair on their shield. At this point, I proceed to cross-up Uair, and all of a sudden, I'm in an extremely advantageous position of hitting the back of my opponent's shield with an extremely fast-auto canceled aerial. Now my opponent is screwed, because if I jab, it can stuff almost all OOS options, but if they keep shielding, they get grabbed. I can also read a roll away, which does harm me anyway, and I can resume Fireball camping.
And what if, as Mario you are facing someone with an Up Smash that slightly changes their hitbox (Jigglypuff) or with someone with an extremely quick nair, or someone with invincibility on their up-B's when grounded?

How would you crossup a Jigglypuff, Marth, Peach, or Bowser? (Just to give an example of each, 2 of that last one) I could think of more examples as well.
 

Pierce7d

Wise Hermit
Joined
Dec 20, 2006
Messages
6,289
Location
Teaneck, North Bergen County, NJ, USA
3DS FC
1993-9028-0439
And what if, as Mario you are facing someone with an Up Smash that slightly changes their hitbox (Jigglypuff) or with someone with an extremely quick nair, or someone with invincibility on their up-B's when grounded?

How would you crossup a Jigglypuff, Marth, Peach, or Bowser? (Just to give an example of each, 2 of that last one) I could think of more examples as well.
Crossing up is not an option you throw out at random, and it's not to be used extensively in every match-up. With Mario, I am not likely to attempt cross-ups on most of those characters, unless they are excessively shielding (something top level Marth players shouldn't do.) However, cross-up when you've already jumped, and your opponent has shielded is generally a good idea to try some of the time. With Marth, cross-ups with Nair is very doable on ALL of these characters.

The important part to remember is that most times, when you're jumping in an attack position at a player, they aren't likely to drop their shield and risk eating whatever aerial you were presumably going to attack with. Therefore it gives you a safe enough time to execute a cross-up, which means you aren't getting shield-grabbed.
 

hundreds of utilts

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Mar 11, 2009
Messages
148
Location
deep north
I find myself doing this most with wolf. When an opponent shields expecting a bair, you just land behind and grab instead. Definitely throws people off when you do it correctly.
 

Pierce7d

Wise Hermit
Joined
Dec 20, 2006
Messages
6,289
Location
Teaneck, North Bergen County, NJ, USA
3DS FC
1993-9028-0439
I find myself doing this most with wolf. When an opponent shields expecting a bair, you just land behind and grab instead. Definitely throws people off when you do it correctly.
Yes, my friend who is a Lucario main caught me with this a LOT, and mixing in Utilt reading a shield drop, before I got used to it and started rolling away. BUM also does this a lot with DK.
 
Top Bottom