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dawall250

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Feb 11, 2007
Messages
215
@ Genghis pot

I only watched two of the vids, but here goes:
First about general gameplay:
You throw waddles waaaay too much. I know its seems nice to have waddles out against zss, but if you've got two out already you don't needa keep spamming them. On the match on battlefield, you died because you got hit by a side b in the ending lag of a waddle throw.

I know recovering high is good, but please don't kill all your jumps before you decide to come down. DDD's animation without jumps is very obvious, and without jumps its reaaaaaly easy to get juggled.

Sometimes you like to go for two bairs in a shorthop, its a nice mixup, but you seem to go for them multiple times in a row, bair's landing lag isn't that large, but its still rather punishable.

This is also a habit I've been trying to break with some of my other characters, but spotdodging after someone rolls behind you can be punished sooo easily if the person who rolls notices and decides to wait. ZSS in particular punished it well enough by just dtilting twice or dtilt then utilt. Either you oughta punish the roll, or if you react to late, just hold the shield (against zss that is), and then punish whatever she does with bair or dair oos. It's not like she's gonna try to grab you. If it's another character, roll forward or bair/dair oos.

Against ZSS:
Learn the timing to powershield side-b. The matchup gets waaaay easier. If you don't powershield, don't bother attempting to grab, unless the zss horribly misspaced and you were in the area that has a tiny/no hitbox. You can also spotdodge the side-b (don't start the dodge too early, or you'll get hit), and then punish with a ftilt or something.

Against her b projectile, you should generally just powershield it instead of throwing a waddle at it unless you're really far away from her. If you dash, powershield, you can then punish with a grab or a tilt depending on the spacing.

Umm, I didn't really see much else to work on, though beef will probs have more comments. Good stuff overall, nice job in the tourney too, that was loser's finals huh?
 

Genghis Pot

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jul 9, 2009
Messages
90
Location
Front Royal Va
Thanks much for the input dawall.

I get what your saying about powershielding side and neutral B, that's what I'd usually be trying for except that the only Tvs there are LCDs. Lag is not horrible but it threw off my timing a bit. Still doable though I just gotta adjust better.

I was also wondering if rolling through the side B when I see it coming is a plausible idea because of how the hitbox on that is, then punishing with a grab or SH dair.
 

dawall250

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Feb 11, 2007
Messages
215
I haven't really thought about rolling, I suppose if she spaces it so that the tip doesn't even hit your shield, you could roll past the strong hit and then attempt to punish. Try it out, see how it works, and tell us!
 

Dark 3nergy

Smash Hero
Joined
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power shielding her side b helps alot. She shouldnt be spamming it too much anyway
 

Tmacc

Smash Lord
Joined
Dec 23, 2009
Messages
1,921
Location
St. Louis
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j7uDR_OgdRA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6M9-Qxbl8Mk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7vwHLtAKAIc

Three matches I have now from a set vs Legan's Link. I played reasonably well, I think, but I have a lot of bad habits in general that I am sure ae displayed and would like some good thoughts on how I can continue to improve. Thanks guys!

EDIT:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NkoK15SrzWg

Also, I got wrecked this match against Falco, and need some help getting rid of bad habits in that MU. I've never gotten beat this bad by this Falco, although he almost always wins this MU, but it's the only video I have of this MU and I'm sure displays some bad stuff that can be fixed. CO, I watched your set vs HRnut's Falco, so any help you could give me on on this MU would be pretty sweet. Thanks again guys!
 

Dark 3nergy

Smash Hero
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you can cancel links boomergang/arrows with bair/ftilt pretty sure. Lol that dthrow to bomb was pretty funny. Ive thrown a bomb up, grabbed link and uthrew him into a bomb once before. So if you do get an opportunity to abuse his bombs do it. Make sure you either grab it with z-catch or an aerial if hes close by.

Few things im noticing is your missing punishing him because your too far away while hes in delay, your also messing up the cg. Its grab>dthrow>buffer dash>shield>then hit A to grab after you hit the shield button>regrab>dthrow>repeat. In some situations, you can dash grab like at lylat and it'll connect if your timing it right. So feel free to mix up the CG. Oh yea dont forget bthrow too.

As you learned already, its very important to pshield his projectiles that arent booms, you getting hit too much by boomergang. So if your not canceling them out you need to pshield them. If you fall over he can jab lock you.
 

dawall250

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Feb 11, 2007
Messages
215
So for the falco vid... Let's see what I can do.

Helicoptering dair is not useful against a falco that knows what he's doing. He can easily wait for it to end and then punish with bair, cuz of how fast he moves vertically. It's better to use it after you see he's jumped up after you. I personally like to fastfall to about falco's double jump height, see if I can bait a reaction and then jump out of the way if he does jump up, while dairing to cover me.

Maybe you just weren't having a good day, but you were fullhoppin bair's oos, you would gotten a few more hits if they were just sh bairs oos.

Something that's always important, try to never lose all your jumps offstage. Your first death could have been avoided if you didn't use up all your jumps getting back. In that scenario, I probs would have used upb earlier taken extra damage, but at least I woulda either landed on stage and gotten all my jumps back (if he waited on the ground/daired) or had a better angle of approach (if he bairs and I di properly).

So, spotdodges suck against falco, well at least if you're within ftilt range of him. If you spotdodge at that dist, he can cancel his laser into gatling combo, dash attack, maybe usmash among other things and hit you, which he did do on occasion. If you think your shield is too low, hang back and spotdodge his lasers, but never spotdodge that close to him. Better to powershield and punish.

I've heard shad is a nice way to get through lasers but everytime you jumped up to get through the lasers, well, you'd get lasered. I personally just stick to the ground when trying to approach the falco, you were powershielding pretty well, just stick with that. (it's always sad when I see people go from a powershield to a spotdodge (there are usually better options) and get punished, which I believe happened once or twice)

umm, I don't particularly recall much else, little things to note, avoid rolling on platforms, avoid random utilts that hope falco falls into them. Also, if you can stay grounded in this match after chaingrab percents you can live to massive percentages, use shield more than anything else at that point, cuz falco's not gonna kill you with a grab till well past 250, and if you're smart with di you can get back to the stage relatively well. That isn't to say to just sit in your shield, but if you think you're in a bad position at killin percents, shield is better than a spotdodge.

I hope that was useful.
 

GanonkingAbyss

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Apr 1, 2009
Messages
157
Location
FL
im wondering, is there any attack best vs mk when he planks? ive tried everything i can think of, i bet i could probably hit them with a bair or something (i think dair might work, i havent tried it), but the risk would probably be too much to try for it, especially since im not gonna be getting a spike when hes at 0% and he'll probably react better the next time so it would be for nothing.
 

Commander_Beef

Smash Champion
Joined
Dec 11, 2008
Messages
2,965
Location
Redondo Beach, California
We don't even have frame data in that fat*** guide D.E.
And Gah777...Frame data is the only thing we don't have on the kings boards. I remember there somebody sayin that there's frame data for EVERY character in Tactical Discussion, but I may be wrong. Check that department.

Sorry for anybody who was expecting me to give them help. But life stuff has been in the way, and now I'm here!
I appreciate others hekping out also. It's great....
im wondering, is there any attack best vs mk when he planks? ive tried everything i can think of, i bet i could probably hit them with a bair or something (i think dair might work, i havent tried it), but the risk would probably be too much to try for it, especially since im not gonna be getting a spike when hes at 0% and he'll probably react better the next time so it would be for nothing.
Here are the facts for when MK is planking.
1.) He can do TWO up airs while still being in the invincibility frames from grabbing the ledge. [Yes any character still has the frames if you get off from the ledge fast enough]
2.) We have zero options that are safe even after his two up airs because MK will up B thru anything we have.

Conclusion: Don't do anything when he's planking, or you'll get punished. We cannot do anything about it because we're King Dedede. :)


I looked at your fourth video. That's definitely the way to deal with ZZs's pieces, throw them off! Yay.
I noticed that you're not familiar with the "instant-throw" by airdodge cancelling.
The input is to airdodge and c-stick [ the way you want to throw the item] together. It'll look like you picked it up and threw it all in one motion.
And I know we all forget this or make mistakes about it, but if your opponent is in mid percents, or higher, you should pummel once before you back throw. Benefits are for refreshing moves, a little damage, and they can't get out of the grab if you pummel once and if they're high enough percent.
And just a little matchup knowledge for this chick. We can camp her. O_o
On her perspective, her options, in general, are very limited against us without getting shieldgrabbed.
Her only safe option is side B, but if we're away from her far enough, we can throw more than one waddle dee without being punished. When you want breathing space, throw some, and mix it up with an approach. That's the good part about this matchup. We can mix up between those two things. Use forward tilt more for her too, I guarantee these things will help you out.

I'll get to you later Tmacc.
 

Ambient_Horizon

Smash Ace
Joined
May 29, 2008
Messages
604
Location
Pleasant Ridge, Michigan
So I have a question. How do you fight a ROB on stages with platforms. I barely lost to a ROB at a tournament on BF, beat him with a CPed him to Picto but got ***** on Yoshi's. Seriously im not sure how to deal with ROB platform camping. Also what are good stages to CP a ROB to?
 

o-Serin-o

I think 56 nights crazy
Joined
Jul 16, 2009
Messages
7,878
Location
Montgomery
The best way to get around ROB and platforms is to basically use utilt for protection whenever needed. For a platform campy ROB (which all of them should be), just move forward and powershield anything he may want to throw at you. Once you get in, watch his motions and read whatever he does and hit with fullhop fairs and bairs.

The best stage to CP ROB imo is Halberd or Delfino. The walkoffs on Delfino are a huge plus for you since he isn't THAT hard to grab. For Halberd, the low ceiling is close to bliss for you when trying to kill.
 

Ambient_Horizon

Smash Ace
Joined
May 29, 2008
Messages
604
Location
Pleasant Ridge, Michigan
Well I wouldve gone Delfino but he switched to MK for my CP and I just dont like Mk vs D3 on Fino. I shouldve mentioned that in the beginning, so thats my bad. But when are the SA frames on Up-Tilt. That would be helpful since pretty much every L.A.Z.O.R he shot was a small one.

Thank you for the advice though I just need to get more accustomed to Powershielding I guess. I'm just okay with it.
 

o-Serin-o

I think 56 nights crazy
Joined
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Messages
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Utilt doesn't have SA frames, it has invincibility frames. And it's somewhere early in the beginning of it.

As for MK, just CP Halberd. All of your other good CPs he does better on.
 

Suspect

Smash Hero
Joined
Mar 25, 2009
Messages
6,742
Location
Atlantis
I cannot get the timing down for the CG on Marth to where he can't upB out of it, same with snake pulling a grenade out. Are the timings both the same and I just need to try it faster?
 

DZLE

Smash Master
Joined
Dec 2, 2008
Messages
4,955
Location
Planar Fields
If I remember my days as a DDD player correctly, you need a pretty frame-perfect SCG for Marth not to be able to up-b and snake not able to nade.

Get a friend to man the other controller as marth or snake. have them spam up b or b while you are SCG-ing them. If they are spamming it and it's not working, you are doing it right.
 

o-Serin-o

I think 56 nights crazy
Joined
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Messages
7,878
Location
Montgomery
Getting snake to not use a nade is just having the CG in muscular memory.

Marth, you just have to be on-key with it. No ****-ups or anything.
 

Genghis Pot

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jul 9, 2009
Messages
90
Location
Front Royal Va
Hey I just got back from a tourney in which I ran into Vanilla Waffle in the bracket.

After getting knocked out by him in literally half the tourneys I've ever been too, I finally beat his Zero Suit today.

Many thanks to Dawall, Coney, and Comander Beef for helping me overcome this hurdle. :):)
 

Dark 3nergy

Smash Hero
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Fizzle_Boy

Smash Ace
Joined
Sep 20, 2006
Messages
897
Location
Columbus, OH
9B, huh? I wonder how he'd stack up here in the US. If those are the top 4, I'd say the fifth spot goes to Cbeef or Coney.
 

Dark 3nergy

Smash Hero
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Vayseth

Smash Master
Joined
Jul 28, 2005
Messages
3,015
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Southeast Michigan
9B, huh? I wonder how he'd stack up here in the US. If those are the top 4, I'd say the fifth spot goes to Cbeef or Coney.
He's better than them, and I'mma beat him =)

Vayseth, 9B, REST DUN MATTA.

But no really, CO18 and Atomsk are good. CO18 is the only one to actually MAIN DDD. Seibrik used to, but he's mainly MK from what I hear and have seen for a while. I still think 9B and I are up there. I'll prove it this weekend.
 

Commander_Beef

Smash Champion
Joined
Dec 11, 2008
Messages
2,965
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Redondo Beach, California
I can critique you tomorrow DE...but not now. Thx Fizzle Boiiii
CO18 is the only one to actually MAIN DDD.
Think that over one more time....




Me too.







There hasn't been a big tournament here in a few months just to say, but there's not really another DDD MAIN in the west coast besides me... Junk uses half of his matches in tournament play as MK... I think maybe a little Snake too? CPU has been slowly failing with him using Wario and Falco sometimes...tournament placings are a little low, or little to none. And uhh... is there any other here on this coast? lol It's more MK dominant here but that may not be the reason.
 

ZTD | TECHnology

Developing New TECHnology
Joined
Jun 13, 2010
Messages
15,817
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Ferndale, MI
Can we make a thread that discusses and perhaps help develops D3's metagame. Other character boards seem to have them and I believe it would be invaluable to character that is pegged to be so linear.
 

Coney

Smash Master
Joined
May 25, 2008
Messages
4,160
Location
Rapture Farms
wtf i main ddd too

this guy

also the thing about ddd is that...there's really not that much to develop. each ddd has their own tricks and applications of moves but for the most part we're a pretty straight-forward character. creative use and smart choices, i think, are what make some ddds stand out more than others. being a straightforward character has its benefits, as making irregular choices or having an effectively bizarre playstyle can work wonders

i mean like, how are you gonna revolutionize ddd's waddle toss? sure, you can smash throw, you can regular throw, you can angle, but it's so straightforward that actually discussing the move itself is a fool's errand.
 

ZTD | TECHnology

Developing New TECHnology
Joined
Jun 13, 2010
Messages
15,817
Location
Ferndale, MI
being a straightforward character has its benefits, as making irregular choices or having an effectively bizarre playstyle can work wonders
This is the reason I've done well in tournaments lol

But I guess I mean discussion on all of these tricks and applications that seems to make each D3 unique. I like the fact that D3 is straightforward because he challenges my creativity and when someone says "Dude...your D3 is weird" I smile every time. I just want to know what some of the top D3 players know that other players dont per say. Yes, Waddle Dee Toss is pretty easy to comprehend. Nair may have some useful applications that beginning D3s players dont know about or perhaps when to do so. There are a few things we can discuss I believe.

We need to light a fire under this board's *** lol

 

Dark 3nergy

Smash Hero
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look at the mechanics of DDDs moves, then think about them in conjunction with the stages/transformation your on

you'll find more tricks
 

BadKarma

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Apr 18, 2010
Messages
304
Location
Texas
soooo...when fighting diddy, what are your preferred ways of picking up bananas? Everytime I try to just get close to pick one up I trip and dash attack to pick up isn't good at all. so like what is the best way to pick up bananas when fighting diddy? thanks
 
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