Just got back after being away for a week so I only just saw this thread...
Ok, I know this matchup better than any other MU, I have A LOT experience against Bowser. I have faced many very good Bowser players with a variety of styles and my best friend is the best Bowser players in the UK.
So, the first thing I want to say about the Boozer MU is that there are a LOT of bad Bowser players out there. From what I have seen of Bowser he is a very under-represented character in Brawl as most people who do actually play him do so poorly.
Because of this it is easy to pick up the wrong idea about Boozer and how he performs, especially when playing online... you should not be basing any knowledge on online play.
I will try to go into as much detail on this matchup as I can...
Firstly, a lot of Yoshis I have noticed approach this matchup very offensively because of the way they see Boozer, I am going to say right now that this WILL NOT work against good Boozers, playing overly offensively is going to get you killed if the opponant is a good Bowser.
Bowser has quite a few useful tools at his disposal but the things that really stand out the most for me from playing against Boozer is the Fortress and the Klaw, this is not to say that Boozer does not have other very effective tools, these are just the two that seem to provide the most trouble when playing against a Bowser.
First I will address the Fortress...
I despise the Fotress, I really do... I would personally consider it his best move, or at least it is the most effective move against Yoshi.
Starting with the obvious basics... Fortress OoS. You will attack Bowsers shield and you will be punished with the fortress. No matter what move you attack the shield with (besides the EggLay) the fortress will just eat through it. Good Bowsers are very good at timing the shield, this means a few things; first, Egg camping is not going to be as effective as you would assume. You should be playing this matchup defensively so eggs are going to be big in this matchup, but merely spamming eggs is simply not going to work. Bowser will just powershieild his way through the onslaught of eggs much faster than you would expect and if you are not careful you are going to get punished in the lag of an Eggtoss. In short, eggs are going to be very usefull and I will go into more detail about their uses later but mindlessly spamming it is a very bad idea and if you think you can just eggcamp all match then you are sadly mistaken.
There is one other move that can beat the Fortress OoS and that is Dair, but thats a VERY risky one and I dont personally recomend putting much faith into it. When you are pounding on Bowsers shield with the Dair there are a number of possible outcomes. Should Bowser decide to try fortress as you are Million kicking his shield, there are 3 possible outcomes dependant on what frame the fortress on.
1. The Dair will connect before Bowers has a chance to activate the fortress, as if he had just dropped his shield.
2. You will get fortressed.
3. You will take a hit from the fortress and Bowser will take a hit from the Dair.
So the Dair is a more reliable move to be caught attacking bowsers shield with but if you are in that situation it is deffinatly best to be manuvering the Dair as far away from Bowser as you can.
Bowser cannot grab Yoshi out of the Dair from his shield, he will just get hit.
Bowsers other real option when it comes to the Dair attacking his shield is just to merely wait it out and punish, unless his shield is already pretty low he can just sit in there untill the Dair is over and then grab or fortress or anything else he cares to go for.
I must stress that attacking Bowser when he is able to shield (aside from EggToss/EggLay) is a very risky business and I don't advise it if you are not confident in what you are doing.
This of course means however that attacking with rising aerials is very useful here, similar to D3. To avoid the fortress that would come from attacking his shield you can DJ just as you attack to rising aerial away from the shield grab/fortress, however, then you have to worry about getting down and back to the stage again which I will address later.
Because Bowser does tend to do a lot of sheilding, EggLay is of course vital in this matchup, infact the Egglay is a very similar move to the Klaw and can be used in roughly the same way... except the Klaw is just better. Your spacing much be very good with the Egglay as it can get u badly punished, DJCEgglay is very effective in this matchup and it should be used a lot but be careful to space it correctly as you can easily end up just flying into one of bowsers attacks. Egglaying will deffinatly make Bowser think twice about shielding which means you are more free to attack him with other moves. Remember to mix up SH Bairs with faking it into an egglay.
Then there is the issue of gimping or spiking a recovering Bowser. I've seen many players underestimate Bowsers ability to recover safetly.
First I need to make something clear... be EXTREMELY careful when trying to Fair spike Boozer. If you rush into Boozer with even a perfectly spaced Fair, gues whats going to happen, you WILL get Klawed. The Klaw EATS fair for breakfast, if you space it well then you will see the move connect with Boozer but you will STILL get Klawed.
However, don't think its impossible to Fair spike Bowser because it isn't, infact its not even that difficult, but you will never get it if Bowser is recovering high. The only way to hit Bowser with the Fair is coming from above him. Fair will go through the fortress provided its not in the invincibility frames.
The other option of gimping Bowser from above with the Dair is a hit and miss thing. As you have seen from what I mentioned about Dairing Bowsers shield erlier, the Dair has different outcomes when attacking a fortress depending on what frame of the Dair you hit on, and from above in the air is no different.
Let me just make it clear that gimping Bowser with a Dair from above is a works VERY well some of the time and its an extremely good way to get the kill on Boozer even at low percents. This is because either you will catch Bowser before th Dair comes, this is good and more often than not provides a kill however be aware that Bowser will still be able to fortress after the Dair.
The best outcome is when ot cancels out the fortress... you will take a hit from the fortress but it will take Bowser out of the fortress and he will take one hit from the dair providing a small downwards knockback which he will not recover from... often kills at very low percents and its pretty **** funny.
Of course trying to gimp in this way carries a sizable risk as it is likely you will just get fortressed.
Another big threat in this MU is the Klaw. One thing that Yoshi doesn't have to deal with as much as other characters however is the Klawhop. Many Boozers like to abuse Klawhopping and seem to regard it as somewhat better than it actually is. Thats not to say it isn't good, just that Ive seen it abused often. The reason Yoshi gets off fairly lightly against Klawhopping is that Eggs **** the Klawhop. Because of the trajectory that Yoshi throws the eggs and our ability to control it, it pretty much wrecks the Klawhop. Klawhopping can still be a pain and catch you off guard if you are not careful, but against Yoshi it is not wise to use it continuously.
So bassically if Bowser is Klawhopping just break out some eggs to bring him down to earth again... you can also Bair him if you time it right but trying to catch a Klawhopping Bowser with aerials will very often just get u Klawed.
As I mentioned erlier, any attempt to Fair into Bowser will get you Klawed...
IMO Klaw is deffinatly Bowsers best defence in the air, any attempt to attack bowser head on in the air will most often result in getting Klawed. The Klaws range is very deceptive and it will grab you from MUCH further than you might expect so be careful.
This brings me to my biggest difficulty against Bowser, he completely outranges Yoshi both in the air and on the ground.
Bowser really does destroy Yoshi on the ground, his moves are by no means slow to come out and almost everything he has on the ground will outrange your ground tools.
Because of this you will find that Dtilt is invaluable in this MU, not only is it the only move that really appraoches Bowsers range but you will also occasionally be able to duck bellow one of bowsers attacks.
Bowsers Jab is a huge pain in the ***, it comes out very quickly it has very good range and you will rarely take the second hit because he will be jab canceling into Ftilts, Klaws, Grabs and if he is feeling bold maybe a Dtilt... but you shouldn't worry about Dtilt that much, its very slow and you have more than enough time to escape before it comes out. Be warned though Bowsers Dtilt is supprisingly powerful and very capable of killing, especially considering that they won't use it much so it will remain fresh. If Bowser trys canceling the jab into a Ftilt then try to shield it... of course then you are completely open to a Klaw or Grab so its really just a matter of prediction.
Utilt is another move you need to really watch out for, it is kinda slow but it packs quite a punch and can kill easily if you are not careful. You should be VERY careful on a platform above Bowser...
(Actually I'm just going to step in here and explain about the stage Battl;efield a little bit. In short... NEVER EVER EVER EVER take Bowser to Battlefield, it is deffinatly his best stage and he will destroy you here. Platforms are amazing for Bowser, they let him pull off all sorts of Klawhopping shenanigans, returning to the stage will become very difficult, being on a platform above Bowser is a NIGHTMARE. Also the Klaw is way better for killing on this stage as Bowser will manuver himself to land on the top platform making the ceiling MUCH closer... DI THE KLAW TO THE SIDES. Also I've been seeing something else recently where Bowser will Klaw as he goes through a platform and as he goes through it it seems to cancel the Klaw instantly and he can do ANYTHING else... so watch for that. Just don't pick Battlefield if you want a shot at winning.)
Now, I've been seeing a few people saying that Bowsers Fsmash and Uair are virtually useless. This is deffintly not true, they are not good moves... but they deffinatly have their uses (unlike our EggRoll which IS useless =P).
Both moves are very slow and VERY powerfull. Because of the power of the Fsmash loads of Bowsers use it FAR to much in the hopes of catching scrubs and punishing spotdodgers. All the best Boozers I have played against barely use Fsmash because it is VERY difficult to pull off and carries massive lag, but when they do use it they use it wisely and it is fresh and unexpected.
The Fsmash only really poses a threat in two situations... firstly it is used to punish spotdodges. This should make you more cautious with your spotdodges as Yoshi does rely on them more heavily than other characters, but you can spot the Fsmash and shield it before it connects so just make sure you don't instinctively spotdodge.
The other times I see it used effectively is on the edge, there are some huge disjoints on the Fsmash and they will catch you from rediculessly far away before you can grab an edge so its improtant to be really careful when trying to get back to the edge.
Updated from this point...
Onto the Uair, Bowser's other dangerously slow, dangerously powerful move. Its easy to be caught in a Uair from a smart Bowser, much easier than it looks based on its rediculessly slow speed anyway...
A good Boozer knows that they are never going to get anywhere with this move using it like we use our Uair to kill, although its purpose is killing similar to ours and I certainly think many Yoshis would benefit from incorperating the tricks Bowser mains have learnt to use to get their Uair in.
This really is an example of why matchup experience is so valuable, because without knowledge of the Boozer MU you will likely end up falling into this, its all about learning to spot it. Bassically Bowser is going to either try baiting you into this move or batiing you with this move, or sometimes if the bowser has played you or another Yoshi before they will use this to punish an empty Dair if they can... but you really shouldn't be dairing as you come down towards the stage anyway =/,
So your coming back towards the stage from above for whatever reason, maybe you recovered high or maybe you just got fortressed (probably that), and suddenly this huge firebreathing turtle like thing is jumping up at you, chances are the Uair is coming. So what do you do?
Well it depends on what Bowser is planning, either he will predict that you will instinctively airdodge which you are very likely to do, in which case he is not going to Uair straight away but rather delay it a second to time it right, punishing your AD with the terrifying Uair.
This WILL catch you off guard at first and is very deadly if you are not expecting and airdodge instinctively. The simple solution to this would simply be "Dair then instead of airdodge", and that would be a good counter-measure however...
Boozer has another trick up his sleave with the Uair, this time he is going to charge at you like a vertically climbing freight train and immeditatly go in for the Uair... sounds pretty wreckless.
A simple airdodge seems like an easy escape from such a predictable and slow move, thing is... you just got baited again. As your AD ends Bowser is going to punish it with a Bair.
Luckily there is actually a very simple solution to these Uair baiting tricks, if you see bowser coming at you from bellow, just wait he makes his move and double jump, this allows you to get away from an incoming Uair and punish with a down B Yoshi bomb halfway through the DJ.
This atually brings me to my next point... returning to the stage safetly. This is where I have quite a bit of trouble against Bowser as he is seems to be very good at not letting Yoshi get back to a neutral position on the stage.
I've seen a lot of Yoshis using the edge a lot more these days and thats good, Yoshi has a lot of good options from the edge, but against bowser you need to be very careful.
Bowser is nowhere near as vunerable as he looks to Yoshis egde grabbing shenanigans.
This is because Bowser has a number of good edge guarding tools at his disposal in this MU, namely Fortress (again), Firebreath, Fsmash, Dsmash and occaisionally Dtilt.
I'll start with ECE, unfortuantly ECE is not as effective as one would hope against Boozer, not to say that ECE will not come in very handy (it always does), just be warery when using it and its limitations against Boozer. The golden rule here is to only use ECE when Bowser is at a distance from the edge you are grabbing, ECE while he approaches the ledge you are clinging to can be a nice way to rack up a little damage but be aware that its extremely likely that they will just powershield it.
The reason that ECE is not going to be a viable option when Bowser is near the edge is that two of his edge guarding techniques wreck it. Boozer can either use firebreath of he can fortress right next to the edge (very occaisionaly they can mess up and fall off the edge in free-fall state,,, hilarious).
When a Boozer is edgeguarding you with Firebreath, be careful as it can be very dangerous. don't bother with ECE or any kind of rising aerial from the ledge, flames will destroy the egg and you will eat fire... but thats nothing compared to what a disaster rising aerials are against the firebreath. Should you attempt to rising Dair from the edge you will hit the flames before the move even comes out and then you will just drop, because you lost your double jump.
Luckily there is a very easy counter-measure to a firebreath edgeguard,, simply rising AD into the flames and thanks to Yoshis horizontle air speed you can reach bowser to punish him with a Nair or a Uair before he can put the flames away.
The other thing that will kill ECE is the fortress, Boozer can see the egg coming and fortress on the edge, if you are very lucky the egg will hit, but you will almost always take a hit from the fortress making it deffinatly not worth it.
Fsmash can pose a threat while you get back from the ledge, they will stay back a few steps from the edge to avoid taking an attack from the edge and hopefully catch you will the disjointed hitboxes. This is also a way they like to use to pushing airdodging back onto the stage from the edge so watch for that, but really if you are smart you can easily see the Fsmash coming and it shouldn't pose much of a problem.
Dsmash can easily catching coming up from the edge if you are not careful and tends to drag you into from slightly under it, you should be SDIing UP to get away. Dsmash is nice an punishable though and you can rising AD through it and come down to punish as it finishes.
The name of the game when it comes to options from the ledge with Bowser is prediction. On many an occaision you will find youself hanging on the edge with Bowser above on the stage both just trying to out-predict each other.
I mentioned stuff about Bowsers ground erlier but something I didn't mention about fighting Boozer on the stage is his Fair, Boozers like to use Fair as lot and much of their onstage games comes from retreating Fairs, however if you are playing against Boozer the right way then retreating Fairs should not be much of a problem for Yoshi as you will be the one retreating most of the time. Still, be aware of the Fair because they will use it a lot and it is a good move.
STILL MORE TO DO...
I still have more to add to this I'm afraid... don't have time right now but expect it later today or tommorow.
Sorry for writing so much, just sharing my experience on a matchup I know very well, I am aware that many of you won't read this... but I hope this is helpful to those that do.
That...
