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Yoshi v. Diddy Kong

Chaco

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Gah I played the team ladder for like two days. My partner and I lost 2-1 to the number one ranked. Then played a double Diddy team...luckily we DCd. Hella nightmarish.
 

Delta-cod

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I usually bair camp against Diddy's. I find staying on the ground with all those nanners way too much of a pain. I will, however, go for a grab if they're open.

Also, there is a bthrow CG on Diddy, right? I can never get it to work. =[


:027:
 

iDeo

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jul 12, 2009
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445
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WAKA LAKA LAND!
i just LOVE this mu <3
the most diddy players are overstrained by yoshi´s item techniques (Pickup, DJ cancelled item throw...)
the nanners are a great addition to yoshis gameplay imo ^^
Good look, but the DJ cancel item throw can be countered by Diddy flipping over it then kicking. I play Scatz on a good basis, and he does it to me, but I can still manage to get over that little feat. just by flippin' and then kicking.

If u want effectiveness with that, throw in the middle so the Diddy player can't always flip over it and punish you.
 

AvaricePanda

Smash Lord
Joined
Jan 30, 2009
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Indianapolis, Indiana
If banana control was that easy, then all of Diddy's match-ups would be bad for him.

A lot of other character boards go, "oh look lawls banana trixies DACIT to F-smash too good we're better with bananas??" without realizing that banana control really just isn't that simple.

First, Diddy has the perfect glide-toss for bananas. His GTs in each direction are about the same length. He can transition from 2, to 1, to no bananas with forward and back dribbles, can space himself with backwards GTs thrown forward, has good followups from forward thrown GTs, and can u-throw bananas while getting a momentum boost to keep them in his control and not letting them stale from leaving them on the ground. He can smash or soft Monkey Flip across the stage, do aerials with bananas in hand, and ultimately, he's the one who chooses when, where, and how many bananas there will be by smash or soft plucking bananas.

With all of this, he can effectively move across any stage, whether it has platforms like BF or is flat like FD, keep the bananas under his control as he moves across the stage, and punish someone for trying to get one of the bananas. This is something that very few other characters can do because of sizes of glide-tosses or lack of mobility specials they can do with a banana in hand (monkey flip).

While Yoshi has a good DACIT and JC throw, many characters do, and he's not unique in that regard. To be honest, I'm not all too certain of the DR tricks he can do to pick up bananas (though anyone can just airdodge into a banana to catch it), but he can't jump out of shield, as I'm sure everyone's aware of, meaning he can't short hop and Z-catch a banana that hits his shield like the other characters, and he doesn't have OoS options that stop Diddy from going berserk on his shield.

You also have to consider this: when are you going to get a banana in the first place? Catching it from a shield bounce (a big option for a lot of other characters) doesn't work for you. Unless you're good with prediction (as good Diddy players don't sit there and just throw a banana straight at your face when you're doing nothing), you're basically only getting bananas on his mistake. And since he's spawning them when he wants, where he wants...yeah.

There's really few characters that I'm afraid of picking up my bananas or can pick up bananas easily...Marth, Sheik, and Peach can all catch them much easier than others and use them better than most other characters. A lot of other characters just have to play more campy when they get a banana and pressure a nanerless/one banana Diddy, as being aggressive with it will get them punished.
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
You can DR to pick up bananas :p
I tried it, its super cool and fun.
Better than what any other character can do (mostly).
And i do agree that diddy controls bananas better, but yoshi can do a lot of very powerful and tricky stuff because of his DJCs.
 

AvaricePanda

Smash Lord
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Peach can auto-float and falling aerial to catch Diddy's bananas, she has it the easiest. Yoshi probably has it the quickest as far as picking up opponents bananas. Anyone else can just short hop and airdodge into the stage to pick it up.

Can you be more specific with the DJC throws or whatever? I'm not a Yoshi main or Yoshi user to any extent, so I don't know exactly what those can do.
 

Le_THieN

Smash Lord
Joined
Sep 19, 2006
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Shine Blockaz Central
Bwett and I were talking about this match-up on Thursday in person when I was in Dallas for the evening, and we both agreed that this match-up has gotten much, much worse for Yoshi.
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
Well yoshi can cancel his jump at any point in time, so you can use it as a glide toss (just sorta useful), but i mostly use it for wierd shield pressure. Like Djing over diddys shield, throwing the banana down, and then coming down wiht a back air, and from there you might get tossed around if i shield stabbed you, or im in an advanteous position anyway.

I disagree Le Thein but explain plz :)
 

Le_THieN

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I play this match-up very similarly to the way I deal with the D3 match-up. Permanently zoning either character from mid-range with banana peels (which is usually just far enough to where neither character can do anything about it Diddy's pressure game) effectively shuts down their ability to approach in general. This limits Yoshi to pretty much his grab game, which - let's face it - pales in comparison to D3's, and has a great deal more flaws for Diddy to exploit.

Of course, Yoshi is much better in their air against Diddy than he is on the ground, due to his blistering horizontal aerial movement, but pound for pound, Diddy's F-air generally houses more range and power against any of Yoshi's aerials. Even more deceptively, Diddy often times does not even have to challenge Yoshi's aerial superiority with head-to-head attacks, as he has numerous OOS options and popgun-cancel-baiting tactics to bait and punish Yoshi's approaches from above.

Diddy Kong can also weave an effective aerial game himself with the use of Monkey Flip, and activating either Monkey Kick or Monkey Hump as the situation demands. He also gains a plethora of options from simply holding a banana peel in his hand while Monkey Flipping, and can increase the depth of his mix-ups with B-reversals.

The main aspect of this match-up that I think critically hurts Yoshi's status in this match-up are the way his collision boxes are temporarily expanded with certain go-to attacks that he has. Yoshi's character model is actually quite big when you take this into consideration, and it really just isn't difficult at all to literally nail him from any angle with a banana peel, especially after baiting a KO move of some sort. Just being slightly bigger than the average character as well as having non-disjointed attacks that artificially increase the space you occupy is a glaring and fatal weakness, in and of itself.

This is, of course, my analysis of the matter on my side of the match-up. Billy's reasons may or may not align with this. All I know is that Bwett is arguably the best Yoshi main in the country, and I have never dropped a tournament set to him, especially now that I know what to look for and exploit in the match-up. Billy also tends to have a difficult time taking matches off of me in friendlies in general; clearly, I feel that this has more to do with the inherent disadvantages Yoshi has against Diddy Kong, as opposed to some imagined disparity in skill between the two of us.

Feel free to consult a series of friendlies Billy and I had in my video thread over on the Diddy Kong Forums that we recorded awhile back.
 

Airborne

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YO MARVEL Lexington, Kentucky
Bwett and I were talking about this match-up on Thursday in person when I was in Dallas for the evening, and we both agreed that this match-up has gotten much, much worse for Yoshi.
highly agreed. ddk's nanners stop yoshi from being able to punish with pivot grab, and even getting punished for it can lead to some worse than average consequences. diddy isn't in the air as much as we want him to be to be able to use our eggs to the utmost usefulness, since he's attempting to control the stage in the most annoying way possible.

diddy is just annoying to fight these days... -.-

edit: well my stuff was summed up before i posted it. XD had the majority of it written since 1:30... and i've seen those vids; bwett seems like he's trying his usual tactics, but getting punished in some unfortunate ways. =\
 

Jiggy

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Jan 7, 2008
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Stevens Point, WI
If you simply don't have the time to act patient and try to handle the nanners, you're basically ****ed. This is a huge mental game here. You can have possibly two to three different playstyles in this match, but you don't wanna just cling on one of them.

The first is mainly all aerial, where you're almost always pushing out an rising aerial to cover after whatever aerial you may have SHed. This is fairly decent when Diddys get impatient and attempt to counter as soon as your aerial is ending. You'll at least be away from getting tripped all the time (if you can time the DJ through the nanners and attacks), however, you'll be at a awkward position. You'll be above Diddy, and you have to adjust playing when opponents would most likely be under Yoshi (this is assuming they block all of the attacks). Since Diddy is decent when opponents are above him, you should be okay from this position.

Second style would be to fight grounded against him. This is most of the time the hardest cause you need to equally use his nanners (hope you're good at catching) to cut down a few of his options. Since dash grab is mainly disabled in this matchup, you'll need to find a moment where a standard grab can get the job done when a dash grab would get you tripped. You'll also need to keep the pace going with Diddy to stay equal for this, or at least keep forcing the pace to slow down to your level. Egg laying would be important here cause most Diddys would be shielding (general opinion) as one of their approaches (run up > shield, nanner toss > shield, etc.) Still, don't get too much into egg lay cause with Diddy's speed, missing would cost a lot on you.

That's all I have for now. Got homework to finish.

You... basically said it all : /

I dunno how to phrase it any better than that.

Diddy battles are annoying as heck to me.
 

pwiito

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When diddy has 2 banana's in front of him or a similar set up u really can't do anything safe, U probably have to wait for him to try to do something so he doesn't have both banana's , but if he's camping u and shooting peanuts and all that, U'll probably have to guess what he'll do u u can beat him with his bananas , This matchups is indeed really annoying, I'm currently trying to use naners, learn how to react fast to them, to either catch them or to find openings
 

Yikarur

Smash Master
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May 29, 2007
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Germany
You can DR Catch up Bananas lying on the ground, Yoshi has a imo really big Item Grab Range for this :D
I think most Diddys are surprised when you do it.
The most people are thinking that when Diddy has a banana in front of him and one in his hands, that the only moves his opponent can do is dash attack to pick up the Nana oder jumping
but Yoshi is flexibel with grounded bananas :x
 

Oh.

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OMFG

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EmVMOij6HdM&NR=1

Watching this vid and the one sharky posted...I ****'d my pants.

First off, Yoshi looks so adorable when he's throwing items lmfao...tiny *** arms

All those options from the ledge...does anyone effectively use these? I like edge cancelled eggs and upairing but the stuff he did is amazing...I had no idea that there were japanese videos that showed all these things yoshi could do

Do we have a thread somewhere that explains how to do all of those things? Or videos somewhere?
 

Shiri

Smash Chump
Joined
Nov 7, 2004
Messages
3,804
:yoshi: This kid is ridiculous. He is making me want to relearn this entire character from the beginning.
 

Talazala

Smash Journeyman
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Jul 11, 2008
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Philly
That looks pretty cool.
Too bad I can't do half of that.

I really should learn DR.
I could actually try and pick up the bananas instead of tripping over them all the time.
 

Poltergust

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I've actually known about most of those techniques in that video, but I never really used the DR stuff. I should definitely practice that.

I have no idea what he did in 11, though. Two double jumps!? o_O


:069:
 

Shiri

Smash Chump
Joined
Nov 7, 2004
Messages
3,804
:yoshi: HEY HEY HEY

DON'T BE MAD JUST BECAUSE YOU WIN TOURNEYS AND SH*T

MR. "I AM A GOOD YOSHI AND ALSO USE LOTS OF HIS TECHS TO GENUINELY BEAT OTHERWISE SOLID OPPONENTS."

I'M SICK OF YOUR ATTITUDE ALRIGHT?! D:<

LOOK JUST GO HOME I CAN'T EVEN STAND THE THOUGHT OF YOU ANYMORE
 

Sharky

Smash Master
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Oct 31, 2007
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OMG IT'S SO GOOOOOOOD

*one week later*

OMFG DIS **** SUCKS I CAN'T DO ANYTHING FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF-

I love human motives XD
 

bigman40

Smash Master
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Just another day.
:yoshi: HEY HEY HEY

DON'T BE MAD JUST BECAUSE YOU WIN TOURNEYS AND SH*T

MR. "I AM A GOOD YOSHI AND ALSO USE LOTS OF HIS TECHS TO GENUINELY BEAT OTHERWISE SOLID OPPONENTS."

I'M SICK OF YOUR ATTITUDE ALRIGHT?! D:<

LOOK JUST GO HOME I CAN'T EVEN STAND THE THOUGHT OF YOU ANYMORE

You know you love me. Can't wait to come back to ATL for FRXII :D

OMG IT'S SO GOOOOOOOD

*one week later*

OMFG DIS **** SUCKS I CAN'T DO ANYTHING FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF-

I love human motives XD
Sounds about like everyone else that doesn't show determination lol.

It was not a Super Jump. He did a u-air off the ledge, then somehow was able to do two double-jumps afterward. I need to know how he did that.

:069:
It's a glitch in the game. Known for a god knows how long, but we never attempted to figure it out.
 

Poltergust

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Wait, is it that glitch that happens when characters like Marth or Wolf recover at a certain angle and regain their double-jump and up-B? Since when can Yoshi do it? Especially since he is only double-jumping to the ledge, not using a special to grab on to it.

:069:
 

bigman40

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Wait, is it that glitch that happens when characters like Marth or Wolf recover at a certain angle and regain their double-jump and up-B? Since when can Yoshi do it? Especially since he is only double-jumping to the ledge, not using a special to grab on to it.

:069:
You don't need a special to grab it. You just have to hit a certain place on the stage to attempt to grab, but it glitches and places you at a position just after you let go of the ledge.
 

Poltergust

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You don't need a special to grab it. You just have to hit a certain place on the stage to attempt to grab, but it glitches and places you at a position just after you let go of the ledge.
Strange, in all my days of playing Yoshi I never encountered a glitch like that. It must be a very specific area for me to not experience it.

:069:
 

Sharky

Smash Master
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oh that one (I didn't actually re-view the vid I lamly assumed which one it was, lolfail on my part XD) I definitely knew at one point, lemme look around and see if I can find something.
 

pwiito

Banned via Warnings
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Jun 21, 2008
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Nowhere lol, Houston
OMFG

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EmVMOij6HdM&NR=1

Watching this vid and the one sharky posted...I ****'d my pants.

First off, Yoshi looks so adorable when he's throwing items lmfao...tiny *** arms

All those options from the ledge...does anyone effectively use these? I like edge cancelled eggs and upairing but the stuff he did is amazing...I had no idea that there were japanese videos that showed all these things yoshi could do

Do we have a thread somewhere that explains how to do all of those things? Or videos somewhere?
Can someone pls explain, how da fudge did he do this? i've tried it but i think i got the wrong idea, anyone got ideas? How did he do test n0. 1? Can we like communicate with whoever made the video, like take out the translator or something
 

YOSHssb

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So... a good Diddy is annoying as hell to fight. The chaingrab is nice, but it's like the IC's chaingrab on him. If he gets the bananas out and knows how to control them, then the chaingrab isn't as useful as it should be. I know that Polter probably disagrees with me, but I say definitely Diddy's favor on any flat stage hands down. Making Diddy go to a stage with platforms or that moves would be ideal.

This is one of the few match-ups that I'd play defensively and more campy (I'm an aggressive player as most of you know). Diddy can rack up way too much damage with good tech chase, especially if there are two bananas out in his control. I say that Diddy hands down beats Yoshi on the ground, and the only hope is to take the Snake approach and keep Diddy in the air and try to stay in the air yourself.

I can think of more stuff, but I'm at work right now and can't really type out a novel >.< For me personally, the MU is 60:40 Diddy, but I might not be playing the match correctly, so I'm very flexible with that ratio.
 
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