MU discussion: LINK

Xyro77 · Sep 29, 2010

How do we win?
What do we watch out for?
Stages to BAN/CP?
Tips/Tricks when fighting this character?
Videos?
MU classification?

Remember, we are not using the "mu ratio" scheme anymore. Describe the MU using the following MU classifications:

Heavy Disadvantage
Disadvantage
Slight Disadvantage
Even
Slight Advantage
Advantage
Heavy Advantage

IYM! · Sep 29, 2010

Link

Link is better than the people think, i know he have weakness, but also have is strength.

How do we win?

the first is know the weaknes of Link, the bigger weakness is his recovery, this suck, so gimp him is the key to kill him early. Dont stop to spam missiles (Super missiles) those are dificult to evade, and because of the speed of these missiles, Link did not have time to use their projectiles.

the ledge is the safest place for Samus in this MU, so, staling is a good tactic agains Link, if he try to gimp you. you will have the perfect oportunity to gimp him.

another good thing in this MU is Zair, Link is a big character, so, Zair will be efective the most of the time.

What do we watch out for?

Link have good priority, so a melee combat agains him will end in a several damage for Samus, but Samus is faster, so, you have oportunity.

Link have good range, and several moves than can kill her early.

the kil moves in order to strength are: Dair (full hit), F Smash (secon swing have a little more srtenght, but the angle isnt very favorable for kill early), D smash, Dair (in falling state), U tilt, F tilt.

Link have a better game of projectiles, he have many angles with his bombs, these weapons are the best projectile of Link, have infinite uses, Spacing, DPS, kill (sometimes), mindgames, and a endless list of tricks. this projectile EATS FULL CHARGET SHOTS, so if he have a bomb, dont shoot him. and last but not least this move have good priority, ths projectile pass throught the Zair, but the tip of the Zair will explode the bomb.

boomerang is another good move, Link need it to do spacing, and give him time to pull off a bomb or change the tactic, dont subestimate this move, is fast, have a big hitbox and Link can throw it in many angles.

our arrows are the worst projectile, but still a good weapon, we can shoot it in many angles and pass througt the shield (a weak arrow will hit the feet) and, like the boomerang, stop missiles.

Zair is one of the best moves of Link and it dont have anything to envy the Saums Zair.

Link Zair have Better priority, can hit faster in concecutives hits, this move have 2 hits, the first do 4% and the claw do 6% and is easy conect this move on small characters

Samus Zair have better range, this Zair can kill and gimp good, is easy to hit the oponent with a full hop (thanks to its range), have more oportunities to do in a SH than Link.

also wacht out for Nair and Bair, this moves pass throught the missiles

and the last thing than you have to keep in mind is the good DI than Link have, he can live untill the 200%, and this will make problems for Samus because her kill power isnt very good ( a fresh F smash can kill him at 130%)

Stage to pick/Ban

Samus must chose FD if you only have to select starters, this flat stage limit the angles of Link so his projectiles game will be limited, this is a perfect oportunity to spam missiles.

SV also gives Samus adventages, this stage is like FD, and the platform are in constant move, so Link cant setup a spam combo, this isnt a stage than give a lot of adventages, but is better than BF.

RC is a anti- Link stage, so chose it if tou have the oportunity, Samus have a very good revovery, and can float for a long time thanks to her bombs.

Ban

try to evade BF, the 3 platforms give to Link a better projectile game than Samus, he can strike count up and down

Norfair, this stage help the Link recovery, so will be more dificult kill him in this stage.

brinstar, ironic how all Samus stages give adventages agains her. Like BF the platforms give to Link new angles, and Due to the near blatzones, Link can kill Samus early.

Tips / Tricks

Well, I've never fought a Link as Samus, but i know some tips:

1) missiles are faster, so, spaming it, you will limit his posibilites
2) Samus isnt so weak, a full conected Bair can kill him at 130% in the midle of FD
3) The shield of Link isnt a decoration, this weapon can stop ALL Samus projectiles
4) Samus have a Dair spike, you must take adventage of that move
5)Link can powershield the missiles and Zair, so watch out.

Videos

Sorry i dont have anything, but i fought agains a Samus all the time

Killer jaws have many match agains Izaw, so use it like a reference
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X9yNVZsAP7s&feature=related

MU Clasification

this match is even or slight adventaje for Samus, the only real adventaje than Samus have agains Link is her gimps oportunities, if link had a better recovery, the MU will be slight adventage for Link.

i hope this help

The color change is for evitate the efect of wall of text

Zatchiel · Sep 29, 2010

Xyro77 said:
How do we win? This one is a bit tricky. Link's Bombs stop all of our camping techniques (Missiles are destroyed, although SMissiles cancel with bombs, Zair just hits it, and it cancels our CS. Our Zair >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>x10^100 , than his.
His melee game is superb in comparison to ours, but he doesn't get in too easily. It's potentially a battle of Spam vs Spam half the match, get in for a little hand to hand(sword), then back to step one. He's also easy to gimp, although a bit more tricky than Ganondorf.

What do we watch out for? Expect Bombs, Boomerang, and Zair from him, 100% of the time when you're at a distance. Try to keep that distance, and try to catch and return any Bomb he throws @ you, if you can.

Stages to BAN/CP? Ban: FD, YI, Norfair(if applicable), Luigi's, and Lylat.
CP: BF, SV, PS1, Frigate, and Delfino.

Tips/Tricks when fighting this character? I'm pretty sure we can Whiplash his Fsmash1 (First hit of his Fsmash), when up close, on certain stages. I've tested this possible with Link, but i don't really know about Samus's, seeing as how hers takes longer to reach full length.

Videos? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTorQI42uZM

MU classification? Slight Advantage

In quotes, again.

Hive · Sep 30, 2010

Xyro you played Legan in mm, bracket and friedlies right? What was the combined win/losses from that do you think? Slight Advantage seems pretty reasonable to me but I don't play a lot of Links tbh

Zatchiel · Sep 30, 2010

Hive said:
Xyro you played Legan in mm, bracket and friedlies right? What was the combined win/losses from that do you think? Slight Advantage seems pretty reasonable to me but I don't play a lot of Links tbh

I just labeled the MU as a Slight Advantage because Link is much much better than us up close, but he has a difficult time getting in. Although once he's in, it's hard to get him out.

Xyro77 · Sep 30, 2010

Hive said:
Xyro you played Legan in mm, bracket and friedlies right? What was the combined win/losses from that do you think? Slight Advantage seems pretty reasonable to me but I don't play a lot of Links tbh

I beat him in a MM
We tied in pools
He beat me in bracket

Ive beat every link since then and will play Deva(2nd best link) this weekend at HOBO 28. The MU is a SLIGHT advantage for samus. The more i play vs link i realize Link excels at CQC but at the same time it is not super fast and does not have lots of priority. When it comes to projectiles i cant stress enough how bad we win this fight. medium to fully CS goes through arrows/boomerang/zair and cancels out bombs. Zair goes through ALL of them and missles just cancel out all of them. Off stage is obviously the end of the road for link so no worries there.

Ill get some videos up on october 9th of me vs deva.

Hive · Sep 30, 2010

kwl! I hear Deva is good :D I'm rooting for you don't go easy on him!

Throwback · Sep 30, 2010

unfortunately zair is horrible in this MU - bombs go straight through. Even if you trade the bomb hit with a zair hit, samus will be launched and link will usually have plenty of time to get in close, which is where he hurts samus.

I think it's very close to even (I am biased in link's favour because my regular link opponent is better than me...). However I didn't know that super missiles stop bombs, that could be very useful.

IYM! · Sep 30, 2010

the best spaming here are the super missiles, beliveme, as Link is hard evade that spam, and the only thing than i can do is dpdge it or powershield it

Xyro77 · Oct 1, 2010

Throwback said:
unfortunately zair is horrible in this MU - bombs go straight through. Even if you trade the bomb hit with a zair hit, samus will be launched and link will usually have plenty of time to get in close, which is where he hurts samus.

I think it's very close to even (I am biased in link's favour because my regular link opponent is better than me...). However I didn't know that super missiles stop bombs, that could be very useful.

IYM! said:
the best spaming here are the super missiles, beliveme, as Link is hard evade that spam, and the only thing than i can do is dpdge it or powershield it

i have some samus vs link videos if u wanna see them. u will see what i mean

IYM! · Oct 16, 2010

sorry for answer late , of course i want see it.

PD: what mean CQC?

IsmaR · Oct 16, 2010

Close Quarters Combat/"Melee" combat.

Hive · Oct 16, 2010

Oh yea whatever happened with deva?

#HBC | Red Ryu · Oct 17, 2010

I don't think either character has a true advantage anymore, used to think Samus had a slight advantage.

When stages get thrown in and taking into account this MU has a lot of lol moments, one can recover infinitely better than the other while the other is better at getting kills.

Dunno, I'll work on getting a full detail on what I think of this later.

Dumbfire · Oct 17, 2010

No offense but DeVa isn't 2nd best Link anymore, wich he even admits himself. He even said that ALSM is better then him. Come on he just got back into smash from 09, and thats like exactly how he plays now.
He has a lot of work to do to get top Link again.

'Samus spam isn't that hard to handle, Blubba even told me they were actually even in spam. Don't forgot, lol Hylian shield. If you predict a Charge Shot, you can just stand still and lol Hylian shield.
Samus can gimp a lot better tho. Zair in our DJ suuucks.

IsmaR · Oct 17, 2010

Volcanic Doomfire said:
'Samus spam isn't that hard to handle, Blubba even told me they were actually even in spam. Don't forgot, lol Hylian shield. If you predict a Charge Shot, you can just stand still and lol Hylian shield.

~~Get out. Now.~~
This is not the right place to discuss this.

Xyro77 · Oct 17, 2010

Hive said:
Oh yea whatever happened with deva?

Volcanic Doomfire said:
No offense but DeVa isn't 2nd best Link anymore, wich he even admits himself. He even said that ALSM is better then him. Come on he just got back into smash from 09, and thats like exactly how he plays now.
He has a lot of work to do to get top Link again.

'Samus spam isn't that hard to handle, Blubba even told me they were actually even in spam. Don't forgot, lol Hylian shield. If you predict a Charge Shot, you can just stand still and lol Hylian shield.
Samus can gimp a lot better tho. Zair in our DJ suuucks.

I played Deva in Low tier singles at HOBO 28(2 weeks ago) and crushed him bad. At the same event I played ALSM in regular singles(beat him) and in low tier singles(beat him again). Samus beats link.

A2ZOMG · Oct 17, 2010

I wonder what KirinBlaze would say about this matchup. Last time I heard, he was closer to being the best Link than the other people mentioned in this topic.

#HBC | Red Ryu · Oct 17, 2010

I think Deva is out of practice, based on what I saw of recent vids of him. ALSM, haven't heard much I'll look him up.

Now it's a tie between Legan and Kirin for best Link, it's seriously a toss up who is a better Link.

Also what happen irl doesn't = the match up necessarily, or is M2K vs top Olimars going to mean Olimar beats MK now?

Xyro77 · Oct 17, 2010

A2ZOMG said:
I wonder what KirinBlaze would say about this matchup. Last time I heard, he was closer to being the best Link than the other people mentioned in this topic.

Red Ryu said:
I think Deva is out of practice, based on what I saw of recent vids of him. ALSM, haven't heard much I'll look him up.

Now it's a tie between Legan and Kirin for best Link, it's seriously a toss up who is a better Link.

Also what happen irl doesn't = the match up necessarily, or is M2K vs top Olimars going to mean Olimar beats MK now?

Unfair comparison. M2k is not familiar with the oli MU and especially at the highest of level and if u know m2k( like i do) then u already know he has a habit of losing to off-the-wall characters(snakeee=zs/dsf=wario/esam=pika/brood=olimar) in the first place.

As for link:

Me vs Legan=tied in sets 2-2. that was when none of us knew the MU.
Me vs alsm= i think im 3-0 with him. He KNOWS the MU and i still win. He gets close to beating me but i still win.
Me vs Deva=I beat him kinda bad. he has no samus exp at all.

I guarantee i will beat ANY link i come across. Yes that means if legan goes to mlg dallas or if kirin goes to MLG dallas i will beat both of them. Samus beats link.

#HBC | Red Ryu · Oct 18, 2010

Xyro77 said:
Unfair comparison. M2k is not familiar with the oli MU and especially at the highest of level and if u know m2k( like i do) then u already know he has a habit of losing to off-the-wall characters(snakeee=zs/dsf=wario/esam=pika/brood=olimar) in the first place.

As for link:

Me vs Legan=tied in sets 2-2. that was when none of us knew the MU.
Me vs alsm= i think im 3-0 with him. He KNOWS the MU and i still win. He gets close to beating me but i still win.
Me vs Deva=I beat him kinda bad. he has no samus exp at all.

I guarantee i will beat ANY link i come across. Yes that means if legan goes to mlg dallas or if kirin goes to MLG dallas i will beat both of them. Samus beats link.

Your not quite getting what I'm saying, I'm saying even despite the fact you win or M2K loses to off the wall characters it doesn't always directly reflect the ratio/your system of who has the advantage.

Rich beat M2K, still not Olimar's favor, Praxis in the past wrecked almost every Mr. Game and Watch and Lucario, he claims neither are in Peach's favor if not with Peach at the disadvantage.

Who wins IRL =/= who has the advantage.

Xyro77 · Oct 18, 2010

Red Ryu said:
Who wins IRL =/= who has the advantage.

so then every character in the game is even with ever character in the game since irl match dont count..........? come on now, at some point u must draw the line and accept a loss as a loss. Im saying at the highest of level, Samus beats Link. As of now, i think ALSM is better than Legan(last time i played him) and Deva. I didnt beat him once, i did it several times(so fluke johns could not be used).

#HBC | Red Ryu · Oct 18, 2010

Xyro77 said:
so then every character in the game is even with ever character in the game since irl match dont count..........? come on now, at some point u must draw the line and accept a loss as a loss. Im saying at the highest of level, Samus beats Link. As of now, i think ALSM is better than Legan(last time i played him) and Deva. I didnt beat him once, i did it several times(so fluke johns could not be used).

I'm not saying they don't count I'm saying they shouldn't always be used as the end of be all evidence for a MU.

I'm not downplaying your wins or accomplishments, I'm saying using that alone to say that the MU is Samus's favor isn't good. Even with my Praxis example, he was beating every Lucario, except Lee, and still said it was Lucario's favor.

Don't get me wrong, I'm more likely to believe it's in her favor than Link's, heck I'm 0-2 in MM's against Sago's Samus with Link and Lucario, but saying it's an advantage because you beat a Link that was out of practice that didn't know the match-up and a Link that you said almost beat you...I can't understand why this justifies it being Samus' favor alone.

If you have other things to add, like match-up reasoning of why Samus has a much easier time beating Link than vice versa, I'd be more likely to change my 50:50/Even opinion of this MU.

Legan · Oct 19, 2010

link offstage vs samus makes the mu terribad alone. Imo samus has a much better spam game then link and her zair completely wrecks link on & offstage. Xyros reasons were pretty vague but hes right, samus beats link on paper. On a different note, I might start polishing my link for you Xyro. I might be riding down to dallas with Hylian & Jowii.

AeroLink_the_SoulMaster · Oct 19, 2010

^ Hope to see you there, Legan. Deva also might be coming to MLG Dallas as well. I have PLENTY of samus experience (not just against Xyro), and it's definitely in her favor.

Xyro77 · Oct 20, 2010

legan said:
link offstage vs samus makes the mu terribad alone. Imo samus has a much better spam game then link and her zair completely wrecks link on & offstage. Xyros reasons were pretty vague but hes right, samus beats link on paper. On a different note, i might start polishing my link for you xyro. I might be riding down to dallas with hylian & jowii.

bring it, legan!

IsmaR · Oct 20, 2010

Needs more Samus v. Link crew battles @ Dallas.

Xyro77 · Oct 20, 2010

lol relax. i will beat them all. like normal.

AeroLink_the_SoulMaster · Oct 20, 2010

*puts Xyro on soul mastering list*

Thebest1pj · Oct 22, 2010

you guys underestimate deva

/meatride

Jalen · Oct 22, 2010

On stage, Link is alright to me. Offstage, that's a different story. I just try to get most Links I play offstage.
Makes the match a lot easier for me.

#HBC | Red Ryu · Oct 24, 2010

Xyro77 said:
lol relax. i will beat them all. like normal.

I hope to change that if I go to Dallas. :3

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