The *NEW* Pika Stage Discussion and Character Specific Stage Guide!

So going off of ESAM's current character specific stage discussion, I bring you....​

the new and improved Pikachu Stage Discussion Thread!​

The format will be as follows:

Stage name​

short description, pros and cons.​

People To CP here​

This will be the first part of the thread, the second I will open up to continuing ESAM’s character specific stage discussion.

​

one last note: DONT FORGET ABOUT OTHER CHARACTERS CP'S.

While we WILL ban brinstar unless stated otherwise (i.e. Snake, DDD, Falco due to the fact that they do horrid here and wldnt cp us here either) its important to know where THEY will wana take you.

sometimes you will ban brinstar or YI but they may have never had any intention of taking you there in the first place, so your ban could have been more useful elsewhere.

Besides Snake on halberd, we wont be banning any CP's aside from Brinstar usually. The only bans that concern you are the ones listed in the Neutrals section.

If you are looking for a particular stage​

[BF]
[FD]
[YI]
[SV]
[PS1]
[DELFINO]
[HALBERD]
[RC]
[LYLAT]
[PS2]
[PICTO]
[BRIN]
[NORFAIR]
[CASTLE]
[GREEN]
[FRIGATE]



so without more words, lets start this!

Battlefield​

​

[BF]
Battlefield has a real love hate relationship with pika, and by that i mean a lot of pikas dont like it because the platoforms mess up al ot of pikas strings and thunder safety. but theres also the tender loving pikas who would have no problem going here (rollerking :O)

this stage is not BAD for pika really, its just that it benefits most people more than it does us, which in turn makes it a medicore stage to go to as pika, partly due to pikas platform game not being too great.

In lamens terms, this is a stage you are going to be striking quite frequently.


(maybe?)

tbh........no one lol. this is not a stage you are going to be taking people to. pika is hinderd by it more than his opponet almost every single time. Only take a foe here if you feel really comfortable here.

the exception being maybe ic's only because the platforms help you stay away, but you then have to be very careful to not get uair walled. and remember that the ic's can still cg you on those platforms. if you like bf for that mu tho id say go there.


(ban and strike them)

Now brinstar is usually our instant ban (will discuss later) but you really want to be careful about Luigi and Marth on BF. A lot of people do not really know that pika is terribad on brinstar, so if you think your opponet dosent know the MU then ban bf against these ppl. Luigis platform game is just silly on bf, your basically asking to die. marth is marth, he can fair onto the platform and platform cancel automatically into another fair. Ddd does terribad on brinstar, so theres no point in banning it, just take out his next best stage against us instead. Ike is………well hes ike, and if he has platforms its cuz his friends put them there and ike fights for his friends, so don’t fight him fightning for his friends fighting you on bf, cuz ull get messed up. Falco can camp the platofroms, but we CAN still cg him on them, it just becomes a pain. besides these five people you shouldnt have as much to worry about.
[FD]

Final Destination​

​

Ahhhh final D. If you are a pikachu main, chances are you will be wainting to go to this stage a lot. unfortunatley, most people also realize FD is one of pikas best stages, so it will probably be getting striked off the bat. Pikachu has very little range, FD is huge, we have a projectile. I suck at math and even i know how einestien would have felt had he played brawl, it probably wlda ended in him discovering main pika = FD. This stage gives pika the space he needs to force an approach and the distance he likes to fthrow CG. pikas planking game is also really good, and there are a ton of fun shenanigans you can do on FD.

~Forever Zero's tip of the day!~

Next time you are planking, try wall hoping and reversing a tjolt as you wall hop, itll make the jolt travel up the side of the stage and onto the top

People to take here​

:shiek:

almost everybody minus a few ppl. as you can see, pika does amazing here, but because he does so well its almost guranteed it will get striked or banned, if it dosent, then have fun. Al ot of the above people can outcamp pika, but pika has great ground speed which means you will be abusing runnin away a lot and FORCING your opponet to approach you. You really cant go wrong with FD, its pikas best.

People to strike/ban from playing here​

If you are facing IC's the first thing that should be on your mind is ban FD. No where to stand above ic's and everywhere to make a mistake and get grabbed equals one sad pika. its also really easy for ic's to cg pika, so expect to not get dropped unless they suck at the cg. you wana take the climbers to a place with platforms, so strike and ban this and try to get anywhere with platforms for your neutral.

Olimars camp game is better, we will lose and FD is a bad place to go vs him. we want preferrably a stage that gimps his ****ty recovery, like frigate, but for a neutral just try and get a stage where u have room to breath but also limits his camping options. strike and ban FD v him, hes not taking you to brinstar. try to get him on rainbow or frigate for a cp, neutral will vary depending on what ur neutrals are.

Diddy, dont want him on FD. His nanners will dominate the stage and pika has one of, if not the longest trip animations in the game. strike it, ban it. u wont be going to brinstar, unless the diddy is unconventional or stupid. Try and get a stage where diddys bananas will get screwed with. i personaly like SV as my neutral, but i usually play SV since im always getting FD striked v me. If Delphino is an option for a neutral id recommend that, the changing stage an platforms will screw with his banana game.

[YI]

Yoshis Island​

​

So good ol Yoshis. unfortunatley as cool of a level as YI is, you dont wana be playing here. the platform can allow people camp and can also lead to some bad situations if it tilts during a bad moment. the way the stage is formated is utter crap pika too, it really screws around with our qac and makes it a paint to attempt it. While we are blessed with incredible recovery and can come back from almost anything, others are not, and YI helps them by having thos annoying ghosts pop up periodicaly, making a gimp turn into a safe recovery. the side of each wall can also mess around with pikas recovery, you can accidently smack it and go into free fall animation, while people like lucario can wall hug it and avoid your ledghog.

the one good thing about yoshis is that you can poke through the platform at times, but besides that theres not much. high ceilings means your gonna have to work harder to get that thunder kill, and the zig zagy layout of the floor just messes with pika a lot.

People to take here​

So the stage is bad, BUT, its not terribad. taking diddy here as a neutral wld not be a bad choice. he cant camp as effectivley, and pika can live longer since diddy dosent have many verticle kill moves. this would be a good place to go if its available as a neutral.

whats more important, is who you should NOT take here....

People to strike/ban from playing here​

So lets start with sonic. Sonic has this thing where he becomes invincible for his entire spindash when he does it on the slanted sides of the stage. jolts can stop this i believe, but anything else you do well get beat by the dash. This has become one of those sonic secret trade weapons lately, so dont play a sonic here, strike this stage first.

As for lucario, this stage is just bad for pika when fighting lucario. the walls allow him to avoid any edgehoggin you can do as he can just ES into the wall and cling to it. The cieling is also much higher, meaning your going to be fighting a lucario at higher percents, which is never good. Strike this stage

DK has this glitch where he can up-b from the ledge and be invulnerable the entire time, plus its just a good DK stage overall and a bad one for us. Strike this for sure. For the ban your gonna want Brinstar tho, its worse than YI for us.

Ike + Platforms = no. YI has one big platform of hate, strike this stage v him.

[SV]

Smashville​

This stage will be one of your normal nuetrals, which is great because it is also one of pikas better stages. some pikas like this stage a lot, K-Prime goes SV for his CP almost every single time because the stage is just that good for pika and many people dont tend to ban this. It has all the stuff pika needs: space, good size blastzones, and a platform. The stage is flat, which pikas love, and has a platform to stay away when we need the breathing room or dont want to get grabbed *cough* IC's *cough* good stage, use it.

Who to take here​

:shiek:

because people will most likely ban FD, this or PS1 will most likely be your starter, so make sure you are VERY familiar with SV. IMO this is one of pikas best stages and one of his most widely used ones.

A few notes: * This stage will be good vs IC's, just make sure to use the platform to your advanatge.

*When taking the spacies here make sure to not get hasty. a lot of good spacies ive played will camp the platform and have u try and hit them till they get out of the cg percent then come down and fight. you CAN NOT dthrow cg when the patform is moving, which can make their camping very annoying.

as for people not to take here theres only really two...

People to ban/strike from playing here​

Dont take diddy here for a CP or Neutral in general, he can control the stage well still which means bad news for pika. Strike this for neutrals and try to get YI,

as for jiggz, shes floaty and walls n stuff, so a big open stage is not where u wana take her. Strike this and FD, the jiggz will prob strike BF and maybe YI. You want to get PS1 idealy, but as long as you got some kind of platform to shut her walls of pain down youll be ok.

[PS1]

Pokemon Stadium One​

POGEYMANZ?!
​

Overall, this stage is good stuff. you get a good distance to camp, you can dtilt lock on both sides of the tree on the fire transformation, as well as in the crevace on the rock transformation. pika can also camp in the bottom of that chamber with jolts and thunder, its a good place for pika to be, and your amazing recovery means the lip wont be screwing you over. the only thing to watch out for is the grass section with the platforms, more platforms = bad for pika.

Note: the stage transformations will screw up your CG, so either end the CG b4 the stage transforms or they will break free.

Who to take here​

EVERYONE EXCEPT FOR --->

there isnt anyone who can really abuse the stage more than pika can. be careful on the transformations that give more platforms agaisnt snake, cuz he can lay surprises on them and camp for a bit, but in general youll be getting a much bigger advantage than anyone else except for.....

Who not to take here​

except for this mofo. lucario can outcamp pika here, and can just in general abuse the stage better than we can. he is floaty which can make the dtilt lock hard to get in, and him on platforms means he can dair thru them and stall, its not fun dont take him here.

[DELFINO]

Delfino​

Its like a vacation with dtilt locks​

This stage has a lot of good things for pikachu, and is a pretty safe stage if you feel like cp'ing to somewhere other than a neutral. it has 2 points where you can get walkoffs as well as 2 places where u can dtilt lock/ fthrow lock.

if you dont know what fthow lock is just watch this vid


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xonaaMV_pUU


this is situational but it def adds to the overall effectivness of pika on Delphino.
the platoforms pose a threat but their really not low enough to be a reason to not play here.

Who to take here​

:flame: Anyone you feel comfortable taking here :flame:

straight up sons. this stage has a lot of potential, and basically if you are comfortable playing here then take people here as a cp, diddy can be good to take here due to the switching of platforms messing up his banana game. Thought there are generally better stages we can cp to, this one should be considered in your repertoire of picks.

Who not to take here​

*you wont be banning this stage, you just wont be cp’ing here



spiking issues, theres a lot of places to get spiked, and ike and dk both do good on platforms. we can walkoff both of them, but if its just the walkoff u want on theses heavies then castle siege would prob be a better choice.

Ness is actually really good here, its one of his best levels. he can spike, he can abuse his arials, and its just not a fun stage to play him on


[HALBERD]

Halberd​

Halberd is a funny stage. it has a walkoff at the begining if ur opponet really ****s up, it has a small place to fight that pika dosent really like, and it has a wide open area that pika likes. The ceiling is also very low here which can mean good and bad things for us. lets start with the good.

Who to take here​

Lucario lacks a good veritcle kill move besides uair, if usmash hits you then you prob got read. because of this, we can abuse the ceiling and kill lucario early with a thunder. We want lucario dead asap, the ceiling is low, thunder setups arent too hard, so take him here, its a good cp v lucario.

The stages slant on the moving platform also messes with falcos iasa (input as soon as) stuff (lasers), and we get the middle stage transformation which only gives falco one platform to camp on. its a low ceiling so if we cg to usmash, you can usually get a kill off of it, which means that the cg is now a 0 to death and not just a cg that puts him in death %.

Illmatic says that if he doesn't ban Halberd, that would be a good stage to take Peach. The low ceiling is tough, the slants will kinda mess up the floating a little, and being targeted by Main Cannon #2 may disrupt a turnip pull. Plus, the low ceiling combined with her crap airdodge can get WAY early thunder kills.

The only thing to watch out for is that upsmash, but isn't pika short enough to where he HAS to be in the air for it to sweetspot? This makes the platforms a bit tough, but it's not tough to stay off a platform and on the ground.

Who not to take​

*you would only ban snake here, the rest you just wouldn’t cp here


Luigi has dumb arials and can kill early with nair, plus he has a lot of verticle kill moves. dont go here.

snake has utilt, enough said

g&w kills early and has good vert kills

fox has USMASH!!! :D

ddd has good vert kills, mk has mk, and pit will camp and shark like a mother****er

dont play these people here, just a word of the wise.

[RC]

Rainbow Cruise​

its rainbow, u know, that stage thats just lol sometimes. pika dosent do too bad here tbh, he can cg on the boat and the moving parts and if the cg last long enough can wait till the blastzones close in and bthrow for a kill. the issue is mostly that pika would rather play on a flat stage, not one that moves all the time. pika can cg for even longer periods of time on the moving carpets and other moving parts. also remember we can platform cancel thru almsot every platform on this stage so learn it! u can dtilt/ fthrow lock on the part where the screen is going down back to the boat, just fthrow/dtilt them into the wall, and u can usually end it with an utilt or usmash to kill them and get away safely to ur boat with T. Pain.

Who to take here:​

and OMG NO WAY!?

take ic's here, they really cant do a thing besides cg u at the start on the boat. most ic's will ban this tho, so u may have to seek an alternative

olimar has bad recovery and cant camp as hard when he needs to move. take advantage of this stage and force him to move, then approach with caution, his arials still beat ours.

falco cant camp, and he has to move. we can cg and bthrow him into teh blastzones. this is a good place to take him.

diddy cant use bananas which means VERY GOOD THNGS. excpect diddys to ban this, but if they dont then hellloooooooooo nurse.......i mean rainbow.

the best new thing thats been coming up is that RC is not that bad for pika. we can cg for longer periods of time, and us being mobile on this stage makes it not too bad for us. a good amount of pikas have been having good luck lately on RC vs mks so learn thi stage and all its shenanigans because we can get early kills and finally not be scared by one of mks best cps

this may help it make more sense

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_AN8DNOcnjU&feature=related



rob can recover really well, and his arials are better. his laser will piss u off since it goes freakin far and he can use platforms way better than we can. dont go here

Metaknight is everything. dont play him here, its his best stage for a reason. his arialsa re dumb, he can dtilt lock us on the boat from the start of the match, and he has us in the air, which is where we dont wana be. brinstar is worse tho but if its an mk, expect to go here.

kirby is like a nerfed mk, this is a great kirby stage and we like flat land. we cant camp, kirby becomes tough to kill.

pit has arrows and he can control them and ur gonna get timed out, dont go here plox, its not a cp v him.

g&w can bucket break, has good arials, lives pretty long, and pika needs ground.

[LYLAT]

Lylat​

Lylat is a stage to love or hate as pika. Taking spacies here is typically a good idea, their recovery gets owned here. this stage is also nice because it gives us room to camp, has platoforms if we need space, and our recovery is good enough that we shldnt be getting gimped by the slanting of the ship. people with bad recovery shld be taken here, people you cant outcamp should not be taken here

Who to take here​

fox falls so fast that our cg will still work despite the slanting of the ship. he really cant do much but hide on the platforms, and even then we can shark him.

PT gets nerfed here due to having squirtle and charizard having recovery issues on this stage. we can also fthrow cg them on ths long stage, and we get space to camp.

wolf has really bad recovery here, it gimps him HARD. The cg may get a little messed up by the slanting of the ship, and his shine comes out very quick, but you should be able to cg him still. overall, its gonna be worse for wolf, so going here is a good choice.

link cant recover, plain and simple, and when coupled with this stage, hes gonna have a lot more problems.

peach can turnip camp pretty hard on lylat due to its length, but her float gets messed up by the ships tilt. this will hurt a lot of peach players, so going here would have its advantages.

Falco has the same issues, all spacies can go here tbh. the slant messes up his recovery and he falls fast enough so that we shld be able to cg him still

Who not to take here​

IC's can cg anywhere, so playing them here could mean problems. the platforms allow us to camp decently but uair will hurt us if we arent careful. ics can still cg on the platforms too, so in general long stages like this, we wana avoid.

sonic is fast, and with all that space to run and spin dash on, we def wana take him to a stage that wont be messing wot our fthow cgs. remember, flater is better, and the 3 platforms here could mean issues for our camping game v sonic. dont ban v sonic, but i wouldnt cp him here, theres better places we can take him, like FD or SV.

Rob can camp us pretty hard here, and along with his arials we dont wana have to play on a stage with a ton of platforms. its not terrible to play rob here, but we would much rather take him to a flatter stage

[PS2]

Pokemon Stadium 2​

MLG was here
LOL stage is a loser​

How this stage slipped through into MLG ill never know, but it does have some good things for pika. First of all pika is made for getting small combo strings in, and the air part means we can do this even better. Once the air starts, we can get A LOT of uairs in, making combos good stuff. The ice part also makes pikas studder stepped fsmash slide like a bajilion feet, so you can use that to your advantage as well. The earth part we can dtilt and ftilt lock on the right side of the mound. The only part people don’t like is the electric part due to the conveyer belts, a lot of people will just camp there or make an agreement to do nothing till it ends lol.

Who to take​

(good v snake on air part)

I haven’t played here much tbh, but esam likes to take MK here a lot. It has the above mentioned stuff, a few locks and the fsmash slide can help here. Mk will probably be beating pika on the part with the air since his arials are better, but we can still string him with uair stuff if we get underneath him. Its more of a good cp v him since not many people know ps2 that well since it’s a new stage.

Snake will get dominated on the air part. Pika can just uair him like nonsense, and theres not much snake can do. It is a big stage on the neutral part which means pika gets room to breath and run away, and the blastzones aren’t small so you don’t need to worry about snakes kill moves too much here. Overall this stage helps is more than it does snake, so take him here if its legal and ur comfy with it.

Who not to take​

(anyone with a good aerial game)

Theres a good amount of platforms on the transformations, so I wld advise against taking people who have good aerial game here. When it comes to the arial transformation, luigi is not gonna be fun, his aerials are better and he can get some dumb combos in here, plus theres platforms and luigi excels on them

Lucario is just better at camping here, plus he can just dair our uair combos, so the only thing that pika dominates on this stage gets shut down, same with luigi, his nair breaks out strings. Lucario does better on the pokemon stages, hes just loved more by the fans. who can blame him, his typings great.

[PICTO]

Pictochat​

write to your friends 2 feet away from you!​

ESAM said:

Can spawn walls = good, flat = good, obstacles to help us kill = good
The only bad part is the part with a lot of little platforms
It is too hard to get down/not easy to QA or anything
Wind part can be good to extend duration of fthrow CG’s

Click to expand...

ESAM and Forever Zero said:

WhersMyWife

ok the next stage is all you, picto

ercyman

EVERYBODY
ALWAYS
FOREVER

WhersMyWife

like lolol 4srsly?

Click to expand...

Esam pretty much said it, this stage is good for us. It has a huge ceiling, the walls can setup fthrow/dtilt locks, the wind can extend our fthrow cg, its flat, and we get obstacles to help us kill. Just learn to play this stage, it’s a great cp

Who to take here​

EVERYONE, ALWAYS, FOREVER!

Who not to take​

Lucario can live to long here, its like YI again except he cant cling as far down. Don’t take him here, hes better at camping this stage and he wont die soon enough.
DK can be cgd here but he can abuse the obstacles better than we can. The obstacles the stage spawns are just better for dk than for us, so don’t go here

[BRIN]

Brinstar​

That one stage
​

ESAM and Forever Zero said:

WhersMyWife

so anyone besides ic's that u think taking to brinstar wld be an "ok" idea
ercyman

No
never
ever
EVER
****ING EVER

WhersMyWife

=O
no one ever ever ever EVER ever?

ercyman

Never ever EVER ever

WhersMyWife

EVER, you got it

Click to expand...

Its just THAT bad. Only the IC’s wld be ok to take here, and ive only ever seen Kenny take an ic’s here. It just has a lot of bad stuff. Weird angles that mess up qa, lava, low ceiling and side blastzones, platforms, small stage. Its all the bad stuff for pika conveinetly cramed into one horribad stage. You will be banning this against almost everyone except for a few people which will be discussed in the next section of this thread.

Who to take here

NO ONE, NEVER PLAY HERE!

Not to take here

NEVER EVER EVER EVER EVER!

[NORFAIR]

Norfair​

ESAM said:

Norfair
Good against a lot of people
I wouldn't recomment agaisnt Lucario
That's' about it
Pika can camp on the sides as well as the middle
MIDDLE IS THE STRONGEST POINT BTW

Click to expand...

It has lava, we can plank, its really big, it has golden sun music. It’s a good stage to play on if you want a lot of space, and pika can run away pretty well here. His most impressive feat here is his planking ability, he can qa from one ledge to another very effectively, making it hard to catch him. This stage is good vs ppl u wana camp hard, just make sure you are familiar with It before you cp here.

Who to take​

*anyone you want to camp hard u can take here

IC’s here is good, u can run away and abuse qa to plank all over the place, the ics will have a hell of a time catching you. Because pika can plank so well here you can really just take anyone here that you want to camp hard, just make sure they cant camp you even harder.

Again, while me and esam both say its GOOD vs a lot of people, theres BETTER places you could cp everyone else too, this is just a good cp v ic’s really, assuming RC is banned.

Who not to take​

This is that exception lol, he can out camp and the ceiling is pretty low when on the middle platform. Not a great place to take him, avoid using this as a cp.


[CASTLE]

Castle Siege​

Howl's Moving Castle​

​

​

​

​

This is a good stage to take people to. While the first section may be small and annoying, the next 2 help pika A LOT. We can extend our T2 hitbox on the statues, as well as our Fsmash hitbox, which can catch people offguard. We get a walkoff on the second transformation, which means good news as it lasts longer than delphinos walkoffs. the last transformation has a very high ceiling which can be an annoyance, and the stages tilt messes with our qa a bit, but its nothing we cant work around, the second transformation really makes this stage worth it.

Who to take here​

:shiek:

Anyone we can walkoff and all of the heavies are good to take here. We get a lot of room on the last 2 transfromations as well as theres not many platform issues and a lot of space, which = a happy pika.

Why kirby?​

ESAM and Forever Zero said:

ercyman

I like it against kirby

WhersMyWife

hm
why if i may ask?

ercyman

Camp
camp
camp
camp

WhersMyWife

LOL

ercyman

MARSHAMALLOWS
I MEAN CMON
HE IS A MARSHMALLOW

Click to expand...

Camp Kirby here lol, if he cant get to use, hes pretty much screwed.

Who not to take here​

MK can really do a lot of dumb arials and stuff here, plus we cant walkoff and the ceilings are high, which means its gonna take longer to kill him. Don’t worry too much about what the shenanigans are that he can do, just know he can and will, so don’t take him here lol.


[GREEN]

green greens​

LOL dtilt lock, falco​

This stage is weird for pika. Its not a terrible stage and we get some nice stuff here, but be careful cuz it has low blastzones. We can fthrow/ dtilt lock ppl on the blocks and even footstool out of the ftthrow lock into a qal.

Who to take​

:random::random::random:

No one in particular, play if you are comofotable here, as there are several ways we can lock people into nasty stuff. The vid below is on delphino but we can do the same setup on green greens. Play here if you’re comfortable here, just make sure its not v the people mentioned below.

Who to not take here​

Mk can kill early, plus its small which is bad for pika.
Snake has utilt, enough said.
Ike can fair the explosive blocks and his fair is so big that it wont hurt him. Hes good here, and its not fun.
Falco can camp away from us and run really easily, so getting the cg will just be a pain and plus he does good on this stage


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xonaaMV_pUU


*yes its delphino, but u can do this on gg’s too


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p_-8JtA0Yt4


[FRIGATE]

Frigate​

Any objections lady?​

Frigate is a good cp for people with bad recovery. It has a lot of cool stuff as well, we can dtilt/fthrow lock on the moving platform on the right side when the match starts as long as its at the bottom. When the stage flips, we can actually thunder and it will move thunder with the stage, which can lead to some interesting combos


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y6hkFibSlzU

Who to take here​

Dks recovery makes this a good stage for us, olimars bad recovery makes this good for us, falco cant camp as well and it messes with his iasa frames, plus he dosent have much room to shdl which means we can grab him easier. Diddys bananas get messed up which makes this a good cp for him, peachs float gets messed up which is a VERY good thing, and wolf suffers like falco cept his recovery is just plain awful.

Who not to take here​

Everyone can go here really, it’s a great cp, just make sure again that there ISN A BETTER CP before chosing this one.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

-------

This is the second part of the thread in which we discuss character specific counterpicks.

going off of ESAMS old format it will be:
​

ESAM said:

This will be a list of counterpicks based on characters.

It will be divided into 3 sections:

Stage Strikes :

Counterpicks

Bans

Stages will be

Neutrals:
Battlefield
Final Destination
Yoshis Island
Smashville
Lylat Cruise
Pokemon Stadium 1
Delfino Plaza
Halberd
Castle Siege

Counterpicks:
Frigate Orpheon
Brinstar
Rainbow Cruise
Pictochat
Green Greens
Norfair
Pokemon Stadium 2


I will first suggest all 3 sections. Then people will agree/disagree with reasoning, which will be added after the character is done.

Click to expand...

Here is the list of what we have done and what is still in que.
​

COMPLETE:
Bowser:

Stage Strikes: Battlefield, Halberd, Yoshis, Lylat, Delfino Smashville, Frigate, FD

Battlefield is Bowser's 2nd best level overall, so it would be natural to strike it first. Yoshis is the median because it doesn't mess over bowser but it has nothing good for bowser. Lylat can mess up Bowser's recovery and the platforms are awkward for him. Smasvhille and FD are the best for us by far.

Counterpicks: FD, SV, Frigate

FD and SV are flat which is great for CGs. Also, it is very easy to edgeguard bowser on those levels. Frigate is a good overall pikachu stage and it doesn't give bowser any advantages and it is easy to edgeguard with thunder on the right side of the first transformation.

Bans: Brinstar

Overall Pikachu's worst level and bowser's strength makes this level a fear to play on. Ban it straight away.

Expect Bowser's CP, assuming brinstar is banned, will be BF. Expect it


Captain Falcon:


Stage Strikes: Battlefield, Lylat, Yoshis, Delfino, Halberd, Pokemon Stadium 1, Smashville, FD
Platforms can help Falcon's pressure game on both BF and lylat. Yoshis won't mess up anything of yours to mess up and the MU is stupidly in your favor so don't worry. Even though Halberd is amazing for us, watch out for early kills. PS1 is long, so its good for you.

Counterpicks: FD , Smashville, Halberd
Halberd has long places to CG and a low ceiling to help with killing. FD and smashville for CG and nothing to interrupt camping/combo strings and falcon is basically a sitting duck.

Bans: Stage you are most uncomfortable on as a player


Diddy Kong:

Stage Strikes: FD, Battlefield, Castle Siege, Pokemon Stadium 1, Smashville, Lylat, Delfino, Halberd, Yoshi's Island
FD is diddy's best level, so you will strike that. BF's platforms are weird and annoying in this matchup for us. Others aren't strike-worthy, YI is the best neutral for us. Halberd is good for us in the MU, it is one of our CPs.

Counterpicks: Rainbow Cruise, Frigate Orpheon, Halberd, Yoshi's Island
RC is Diddy's worst level (They will probably ban it knowing that Brinstar is a bad level for us too) Frigate messes with diddy because of the right side of the first transformation and the little pit in the 2nd transformation. Also, the platform there messes up Banana shenanigans. Halberd is good because it makes killing easier for pikachu while not really helping Diddy kong. Yoshi's is good because the platform messes with Diddy's banana game.

Bans: FD
Diddy's best level.



Donkey Kong:


Stage Strikes: YI, BF, Halberd, Lylat, Castle Siege, Pokemon Stadium 1, Delfino, SV, FD
Yoshi's island and Battlefield aren't just 2 of DKs best neutrals, but they are 2 of his best stages. Yoshis has a trick where DK can up-b from the ledge and be invulnerable the entire time. BF is just good for him because of the platforms. SV and FD are good for us because of CGs, so the match will probably go to lylat.

Counterpicks: FD, SV, Castle Siege, Delfino

FD and SV are explained before. Delfino and Castle Siege are both great pikachu levels, and they both have walkoffs. DK can't really stall in the air to avoid this, but be careful not to get too aggressive or he can stutter step a Forward Smash and send you reeling. Be careful, but you should win on these levels.

Bans: Brinstar or Green Greens

Great level for DK, pretty bad level for us. Just not fun overall...Green Greens has small boundaries so you will explode easily

Falco:


Stage Strikes: BF, Castle Siege, YI, Halberd, Lylat, SV, Delfino, FD
BF is probably Falco's best stage against us (unless Japes is in the set) so strike that first. YI isn't flat, so it can mess with CGs. Lylat messes with Falco's recovery, but the tilting can mess up our CG. SV and FD are our best bet.

Counterpicks: Frigate, Rainbow Cruise, FD
Frigate is horrible for falco. Recovery is stupid here and it can lead to CGs. Falco's up-b isn't good on RC, so if his double jump doesn't make it we can punish really easily. FD has no problems towards whatever we want to do for CG purposes. MMMMM delicious.

Bans: BF (or japes if it is legal)
BF hinders with our CG the most and it is difficult to get to falco because he has platforms to run away on. It can be irritating, but you should never be losing this MU in the first place. (For japes, CG to spike to klap-trap is a combo lol. Ban that stage straight off if it is legal.)


Fox:

Stage Strikes:Halberd, BF, YI, Delfino, Lylat, Castle Siege, Pokemon Stadium 1, SV, FD

Levels with more platforms help fox. Levels with less platforms help us. The less the platforms get in our way, the better we do. Because of this, SV and FD are our best choices. They will probably strike it, so lylat, which is a bad level for fox because of weird recovery glitches, will probably be the neutral. Also, the tilting is so slow and fox falls so fast that it shouldn't interrupt our CGs.

Counterpicks: FD, SV, Lylat

Described above. Assuming the first match is played on Lylat (it should be) and Fox bans FD, you should have SV as a counterpick. Count on it.

Bans: Halberd or Green Greens

Low ceiling = Happy fox. Ban one of them.


Game & Watch


Stage Strikes: BF, Delfino, YI, Lylat, Castle Siege, Halberd, SV, PS1, FD

BF is amazing for G&W pressuring with all the platforms. They also give him a plethora of approaching options while limiting ours. Delfino has very large portions and portions with ver small ceilings. He can camp some of the transformations very well, have a lot of room to bucket-brake, and room to get really early kills coupled with his already ******** killing power. YI's platform disrupts our approaching game so we can only approach him from the ground, but with bair and nair on his side we shouldn't really be doing that. Those are the only bad ones, but SV, Halberd, PS1, and FD are definitely the best. Halberd is mediocre imo since the low ceiling benefits G&W, but it also gives him way less room to bucket-brake. SV, PS1, and FD are all relatively flat. We can take more advantage of the PS1 transformations than G&W can, so it is a good neutral against him.

Counterpicks: FD, PS1, SV, Halberd

Flat = good for pikachu. The less options that are limited with platforms the better. PS1 the platforms are too high to disrupt us, and the lip can catch G&Ws up-b if they don't do it perfectly. Halberd is explained in neutral section.

Bans: Brinstar, RC, Frigate, or Green Greens

Brinstar and RC are two of G&W's best stages. He is really good there. Green Greens allows him to wall infinite, and frigate is just a good level for him. We are screwed when it comes to his CP. Hope you win the first match!~


Ganondorf:
Stage Strikes: BF, Delfino, Halberd, Lylat, YI, PS1, Castle Siege, SV, FD

BF is the only good neutral for Ganon. Delfino and Halberd could cause water spikes/low ceiling mess ups. The simpler the level the better for us.


Counterpicks: FD, SV, Castle Siege

The simpler the level the better. We will win on any counterpick assuming you know how to chaingrab...

Bans: Brinstar, Battlefield, Norfair

Brinstar, along with being a bad level for us, really helps ganon. Ban it. Other than that, you shouldn't have any problems.




Ice Climbers:

Stage Strikes: FD, BF, Halberd, SV, Lylat, Halberd, Yoshis Island, Castle Siege, PS1, Delfino

Flat + non-moving = god for IC. FD is basically a death-wish when fighting IC, so strike/ban that stage right away. Youre more preferable neutrals are ones that move and are large, so PS1, Delfino, and Castle Siege will be your best bet. PS1 also has added amazing because every time the stage transforms it will mess up CGs. Halberd is good for both characters, and while the stage is flying around you can shark under the level. Once it gets to the big part, camp to your hearts content. However, camp smartly. A few ice blocks hitting you will let IC get really really close to you, which is bad for Pikachu.

Counterpicks: Rainbow Cruise, Norfair

Rainbow Cruise's nature of constantly moving is amazing against IC. They can't really do anything. They will most likely ban it. Another great level is norfair. With 5 platforms to camp on and lava sprays/walls/waves/rising all disrupts CGs. IC basically suck on this level.

Bans: FD, BF, SV

Yeah, FD is their best level, so ban that. However, if you have a false bravado on that level, ban SV or BF instead. BF is good to camp because of the platforms, but it can set you up for Uair traps, which can be pretty bad if you are trying to maintain a lead.

Ike:

Stage Strikes: BF, YI, PS1, Halberd, Lylat, Delfino, CS, SV, FD

BF and YI are the worst. Ike + platforms + kinda small = amazing. The platform on YI makes it impossible for pikachu to approach, so once you lose the lead you will have a really hard time getting it back. PS1 has walls and oddly placed platforms, which help Ike WAY more than pikachu. Halberd is tiny and the same issue with the platform, so Ike is good there. Delfino and CS have walk-offs, which is amazing for pikachu. Obviously, the plainer a stage is, the better it is for pikachu, so FD and SV are your best choices. Lylat is neither good nor bad for either character, so expect to go there the first match.

Counterpicks: FD, SV, Rainbow Cruise

Same as before, plainer stages = better against Ike.

Bans: BF, Brinstar, YI
BF is Ike's best level. Even if Brinstar is our worst, we can do more to Ike on Brinstar than BF. He just messes us up there X.X


Jigglypuff:

Stage Strikes: FD, SV, Lylat, BF, Delfino, Castle Siege, Yoshi's, PS1, Halberd


Counterpicks: PS1, Frigate

Bans: Brinstar, Norfair, PS2




King Dedede:

Stage Strikes: BF, Lylat, Halberd, YI, Delfino, PS1, SV, Castle Siege, FD

Flatter is better (For stages, not for women) so you will want FD, Castle Siege, SV, and PS1 as your ideals. BF is D3's best stage in this mu because of the platforms. Lylat is also disruptive with the platform placement. Halberd can let D3 shark you with uair near the ledge and the low ceiling benefits D3 more than pika. YI is flat-ish but it is weird. Delfino has walk-offs, walls, and flat areas, all of which are good for pika.

Counterpicks: Castle Siege, FD, SV

Since flatter/walk-offs are better, these stages are preferred. Common sense as to why.

Bans: BF

Brinstar, the normal ban for pikachu, is a horrible level for D3. It isn't worth how bad pikachu is because D3 is just as bad/worse on the level. BF is the only level you have to worry about.


CURRENT:
Kirby:
ESAM's suggestion

Stage Strikes:Delfino, Halberd, BF, Lylat, YI, PS1, Castle Siege, SV, FD
Counterpicks: SV, Castle Siege, Norfair?
Bans: Brinstar


IN QUEUE
Link:
Stage Strikes
Counterpicks
Bans

Lucario:
Stage Strikes
Counterpicks
Bans

Lucas:
Stage Strikes
Counterpicks
Bans

Luigi:
Stage Strikes
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Bans

Mario:
Stage Strikes
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Bans

Marth:
Stage Strikes
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Metaknight:
Stage Strikes
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Bans

Ness:
Stage Strikes
Counterpicks
Bans

Olimar:
Stage Strikes
Counterpicks
Bans

Peach:
Stage Strikes
Counterpicks
Bans

Pikachu:
Stage Strikes
Counterpicks
Bans

Pit:
Stage Strikes
Counterpicks
Bans

Pokemon Trainer:
Stage Strikes
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ROB:
Stage Strikes
Counterpicks
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Samus:
Stage Strikes
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Sheik:
Stage Strikes
Counterpicks
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Snake:
Stage Strikes
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Sonic:
Stage Strikes
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Toon Link:
Stage Strikes
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Wario:
Counterpicks
Stage Strikes
Bans

Wolf:
Counterpicks
Stage Strikes
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Yoshi:
Counterpicks
Stage Strikes
Bans

Zelda:
Counterpicks
Stage Strikes
Bans

Zero Suit Samus:
Stage Strikes
Counterpicks
Bans




Lets continue this and do Link. Ill invite the links here and any pika opinions would be nicely appreciated!

THANK YOU ALL FOR READING!!! <3​

I would like to thank ENNH, Ephy, K-Prime, ESAM, Leaf, Rollerking, KayLo, VoltStorm, and any other pika who helped me in making this thread possible,​

YOU GUYS ROCK!

Good job, FZ. Nice pictures for the stages, lol!

Nice job Fz. It's really nice to have a full listing of stages and analysis for them.
I'm fond of the colour layout that you have here. Very noticeable while scrolling.
All that is needed is some revision for typos, otherwise this is great.

Pffft, such silly pictures.

Good **** hopefully we can finish this

Very nice. Skimmed over everything the other night, ill do a deeper reading soon.

CP all of the spacies to Lylat. THe ledges mess up all of their recoveries.

I say cp the spacies somewhere flat and just play for a grab it's so easy!, the tilt of lylat messes up the grabs but maybe that's just me, you should never be cping a spacey though or you aren't a super awesome electrified pikachu with chaingrabby goodness

They fall fast enough where the tilt doesn't mess it up (I think).

You should fix the norfair one. Mks is actually good there with his shuttle that autocancels on the 6 edges norfair's go.
o.o;

Or we can grab him on the carpets :3

Ussi said:

Does dthrow CG better on the carpets? XD

Click to expand...

The carpet is rising up....lol

While ur cging mk does he move at all while on the moving carpet?

I got Seibrik from like 20 to 70 with grabs. It was amazing.

I've been toying around with Castle Siege a lot recently, I abuse the statues on the second phase. Using FAir, DSmash, FSmash, and DAir on the statues causes the moves to be extended. While this is nice, it is also dangerous. It Extends Sweet Spots of opponents moves, such as Marth's Tipper.

It also leaves you open for any move that oustpaces you, which most characters possess. Once people learn the gimmick it stops working.

Touche ESAM, but if that is the scenario you are proposing, FAir would be the best method then.

Agreed with that. Bair is decent too since it shield stabs a lot and the extra time between the hits will actually make more shield stabs.

The question is, is it worth doing so? Yet, the results will be based on your opponent. Like I said earlier, it Extends Marths Tipper, which is dangerous. Same with Falcon's Knee, (but who really plays Craptain Falcon in brawl?) Snakes utilt and side tilts are extended as well, same with MK's dsmash. Luigi's Shoryuken is another big thing, but he isn't played too much in the tournament scene.

It isn't really worth it.

It extends all moves, Nitewing. It's easy to see when someone is trying to abuse extended hitboxes, so I wouldn't use it too much.

The statues are great for refreshing moves though.

Holding jab = :D

Pikachu's jab is the fastest move refresher in the game. It completely refreshes all moves in less than 2 seconds.
ika: