Matchup Discussion #13 - Olimar

Olimar, a recently hyped character after Apex 2010 and now MLG DC. What does the blue bird have up his sleeve?

Try to give tips and tricks you find useful in the matchup rather than just ratios

(Also, I know I mentioned MLG DC but that is not an invitation to discuss anything about it in here, I just thought it was a fitting introduction )

I think the basic thing with this match up is knowing HOW to approach.

Falco obviously has the upper hand up close, which is undoubtedly Olimar's weak spot. However blindly rushing in will get you grabbed, as will likely approaching through the air.

Most Olimars will try to pivot grab your landings, since it's probably the safest way they can grab. I think air dodging in is a viable option, as long as you jab or f-tilt quickly enough so they can't throw out a second grab in order to kill you.

I think it's been pointed out that you can jab most pikmin he throws at you and shield purples, so that solves his camping, which obviously isn't that much of a problem since we can out camp him with lasers.

Watch out for OoS upsmash, grabs and also, pay attention to his line, it'll help you figure out his next move.

Pikmin work in the following manner:

White - highest damage when latched, farthest throw range and farthest grab range. Their killing potential is zero to none and they will more likely just be thrown most of the time, especially in high percentages.

Red - Best aerial knock back, mid throw range. Will most likely be used for f-airs and b-airs.

Yellow - Disjointed hitbox, small throw distance. Will probably be used for spacing with F-air, F-smash, and U-smash in high percents, though it can kill very well.

Blue - Second best grab range, good for f-smashing and at mid-to high percents can start killing with b-throw.

Purple - shortest ranged throw pikmin but don't latch, will hit you and stop your movement. Can u-smash kill you as early as 82% and also can kill with up throw.

One last thing, remember that he can grab out of the ledge and smash just as well. Also, no grab armor, so use that to your advantage.

Edit: forgot to mention that putting Olimar in the air is extremely useful, although I don't know how to juggle very well so I can't add details pertaining to that, but putting Olimar in the air will always give him a tough time, since he has a very hard time landing. Predict them whistles.

DEHF will probably have the most good amount of info for this. Here's what I've learned using Falco against Logik:

- D-air on shield at low %'s to jab prevents shieldgrabbing (but not up-smash out of shield)

- Learn to chaingrab him perfectly. DO IT. DO IT. Two dash grabs followed by 3 or 4 boost grabs.

- Double jab cancel on hit just completely wrecks Oli. Use it alot. Followed up with more double jabs or a grab.

- Frame trap Oli when you're below him with short hop b-airs. The goal is to bait the whistle so that you can get the % off the b-air and frame trap him into a grab as he lands.

- Sit on your lead if you get one. Olimar doesn't have a good offense in the least bit. The closer he gets to you the more he'll shield. Wither it down with retreating lasers and IAP when his shield gets low. IAP shield stabs Oli very well.

- Jab alot.

- Jab s'more.

- Be careful when edgeguarding Oli. Oli can bait d-air or other edgeguard attacks with whistle and punish Falco's recovery frames with w/e he wants including a spike.

- ABUSE Olimar's lack of ability to get back onto the stage. He doesn't have much options. Always rethrow him back off the stage. Don't fall for that gimmick where they like up+b cancel back onto the stage and go for a grab or an up-smash. A simple grab or probably jab halts this immediately.

- Jab again. Btw, if Oli is behind you get into the habit of just doing a turn around jab. It really, really is that good.

- When Oli's shield is low keep massive pressure on him.

thats all i can think of. the goal is to stay grounded and keep Oli either in the air above you or on the ledge. his best range is when he's in pikmin throwing range trying to pikmin organize his units and is slightly outside of your IAP range. you have to work to close this gap without getting pivot grabbed so be patient and plan your approaches strategically

More help with this please. Logic always kicks my *** in this MU :3

Don't make it more complicated then it needs to be. Falco is a basic character that can go really far if he just does what's necessary... and doesn't do what's unncessary, lol.

What's your biggest problems with this match?

Nair will clash with all of Olimar's Pikmin attacks that aren't yellow.

don't take him to deflino , his chances of getting moniques increases heavily (whenever you take him to stages, stages will factor in which pikimin appears most!)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YUBDFPfUhZA

Omni said:

Don't make it more complicated then it needs to be. Falco is a basic character that can go really far if he just does what's necessary... and doesn't do what's unncessary, lol.

What's your biggest problems with this match?

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How to get close to him when I'm not camping without getting *****.

M@v said:

How to get close to him when I'm not camping without getting *****.

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NAIR

Camp, reflect, nair, bair, and CG to spike = <3 in this mu

Listen to Larry, he is by far the best in this MU.

I was watching the videos of Larry vs. Brood a couple of days ago and noticed that one of his favorite approaches was to air dodge in and fall right in front of olimar, then jabbing the crap out of him.

This only works if Brood doesn't pivot grab early enough. Oli's hurtbox has to be out of the way. If Oli tries a normal grab then the jab will break it which =

Jab is so good in this match.

Also, I notice a lot of people don't CG Oli properly.

I believe from 0% it's 2 dash grabs followed by 4 boost grabs into spike.

You do NOT want to be reckless. Any good Olimar will take advantage/gay every mindless thing you do. Just play this matchup super safe by reflecting and calmly approaching.

I thought of a couple tips.

Avoid luigi's mansion. If he lands an upsmash on the bottom, he can land 1-2 more easily.

If you are trying to approach him with an aerial, fake him out and double jump to avoid pivot grabs. Also, try to stay at a diagonal if you are within his range so that you are above his fsmash and out of usmash range.

Try not to use a ton of IAP, and try to get the ledge when you recover. Olimar can literally just throw a pikmin between you and him and you can no longer phantasm.

Use upair when juggling to frame trap an airdodge, if he whistles, try to follow up with another attack. If you airdodge, chances are he will punish you when you both land

Silent lasers are awesome. Stops all but the yellow pikmin i think.

Edge hog lots, but make sure you don't mess up the timing. Stay on as long as possible without being too risky and get up when you think he will tether. Get up too soon, he recovers. Get up too late, you get stage spiked to death at stupid %s

What gravy said and also it is not safe at a diagonal his up b will hit you if you are consistently in that zone thinking that it is safe.

FGCU Viper said:

What gravy said and also it is not save at a diagonal his up b will hit you if you are consistently in that zone thinking that it is safe.

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Good point.

I remember olimar has some combos at low % on us. I think olimar can chain down throws to about 30%, but more likely is they will go dthrow>hypen smash>uair. It's very hard to escape and can do about 40%-70% depending on the type of pikmin.

Maybe I suck worse than I thought when it comes to DI. What do we have to fight olimar's throw combos?

There's not much you can really do but avoid getting grabbed at low % XD

I'm pretty sure Olimar also has nair > usmash > usmash (no purple pikmin for first usmash) or usmash > fair/uair (same deal)

I think autocancelled nair is always a guaranteed usmash at any % in fact.

Against Falco it probably is, Olimar has beastly combos at lower percents, just don't let that be a sort of frustration cause we can just as easily rack up damage on him once we're close, he has that much trouble getting out,

Yeah I'm sure SDI could work to avoid the usmash but the problem is reacting fast enough

Predicting a nair from Oli can't be to hard though, it's a very situational move. He'll probably use it to try to land safely, or to make you gtfo his bubble. I can't really say though since I haven't been in that situation, could be way harder than what I'm making it out to be.