D&D Mafia -- Game over! Mafia wins!

smargaret · Nov 22, 2010

kuz:

1. You need to unvote before voting.
2. I'm a she, not a he.
3. You don't think I'm scum, but you'll vote me anyway? After being afraid to put a vote down and get it wrong? Yeah, you're scum.

Toastin Walrus · Nov 22, 2010

smargaret said:
Yeah, I did miss that. My bad.

I feel like J's defense of kuz is a scummy defense. He completely dismisses the possibility of noobscum, when several people have pointed out contradictions in what kuz was asking - if he'd read any of those guides, I have a hard time seeing how he wouldn't know what a cop was. J also didn't do any scumhunting outside of the chainsaw defense - and he did focus on you as opposed to me, even though I was making the same exact case. That's mostly why I wanted to point out that it was Gboy following me and not the other way around - IGMEOY because I think what you're doing is borderline buddying, and I want people to know IGMEOY.

As to why buddying as opposed to handholding, is there a significant difference? I phrased the bolded part badly; I mean "A case could be made" in the "I could argue that TW's behavior is buddying" not "I could write a case based on the buddying behavior TW is displaying."

Why have you dismissed the possibility of noobtown?

Yes, please - I would very much like for you to argue that Gord's behaviour was buddying.

th3kuzinator · Nov 22, 2010

unvote
vote smargaret

I used it on the person I thought we could get the info out of by pressuring. BTW, in my post I made it clear that I thought you looked neutral but it could just be a facade and now that you were so quick to jump back at me for that mild post, this alternative is starting to look better and better

sure go right for me now that my vote is on you. I might have to reconsider your stance being neutral in this matter.

Btw yeah I was afraid of getting reprimanded by TW early in the game because he knew what he was doing and I obviously did not. How long ago was that, 160 posts? I learned enough since then to understand how the game works.

th3kuzinator · Nov 22, 2010

I already gave a few explanations as to why the names of the power roles that I was familiar with were different from the ones previously used.

Until this game I did not know of cop and mason, but thanks to the links rockin gave me its all good now. I honestly did not know the terminology and how can you judge that I should know everything from the guides I used if you do not even know which ones they are?

I even posted the links of 2 of the ones I saw, and if you actually read them, you would realize how off base you are. You also used some bs logic from your fiance to conclude that I should have known ever rule of mafia.

Pick any semi complex game that you have never played before and play it once (not online btw, in person), briefly, and then I will come ask you in 2 years if you remember each specific rule.

What makes you so sure I am noobscum and not noobtown.

smargaret · Nov 22, 2010

Did you read his previous post, Swiss? The one where he doesn't think I'm scum but he'll vote me anyway?

I'm not buying noobtown. I'm not even sure I'm buying noob any more - there are too many contradictions.

As for how Gboy was buddying me, go back through the thread and count how many times he says some variation of "what she said". And you didn't say how handholding is different from buddying.

There's scummy buddying and there's town working together. Right now I feel like this is the townie sort, but I wanted to keep an eye on it in case something changed. It's really not a big deal, from my point of view.

kuz: OMGUS (voting someone for voting you) only works if that "for voting you" is the only reason you vote/suspect them. I suspect you because of the way in which you voted me. Especially after your most recent post saying it was a pressure vote - you never say something was a pressure vote (until the pressure is off). It defeats the purpose.

smargaret · Nov 22, 2010

Yeah, and then I conceded the point once it was pointed out that the assumption - that you had some environmental exposure to mafia - was false. Why are you bringing that up?

th3kuzinator · Nov 22, 2010

So the way I voted for you, with the suspicion there may be a facade/scum alliance between you J and TW, made you vote me?

That is the exact OMGUS thing you posted above, is it not?

How does the fact that it is a pressure vote tie into this at all?

Cello said:
@Kuz: If you could lynch any one person right now, who would it be, and would you do it to gather information about other players or would you do it because you think that person is scummy?

Cello asked me why I would vote the person I did, and I responded truthfully.

I am trying to answer all your questions btw, but I keep getting ninjad while trying to look up the posts I am commenting on

Toastin Walrus · Nov 22, 2010

smargaret said:
1) Did you read his previous post, Swiss? The one where he doesn't think I'm scum but he'll vote me anyway?

2) I'm not buying noobtown. I'm not even sure I'm buying noob any more - there are too many contradictions.

3) As for how Gboy was buddying me, go back through the thread and count how many times he says some variation of "what she said". And you didn't say how handholding is different from buddying.

4) There's scummy buddying and there's town working together. Right now I feel like this is the townie sort, but I wanted to keep an eye on it in case something changed. It's really not a big deal, from my point of view.

kuz: OMGUS (voting someone for voting you) only works if that "for voting you" is the only reason you vote/suspect them. I suspect you because of the way in which you voted me. Especially after your most recent post saying it was a pressure vote - you never say something was a pressure vote (until the pressure is off). It defeats the purpose.

1&2) You have to able to differentiate between scummy contradictions, and plain contradictions.

2) I buy it. He's like superduper obv town.

3) So, let me get this straight. You GMEOY Gord (well, TW - that's me too, that's not a good idea) for adding pressure to a wagon you were attempting to form? Did you merely want to appear as if you were pressuring, or did you feel that the way in which Gord added pressure was scummy? You'll say the latter so I'd like to know how.

4) Do you think it would be beneficial for Gord to buddy up to you (after you post that pic confirming you are willing to hold hands) if he were scum?

Gord thinks you're town by the way. He said in our chat.

th3kuzinator · Nov 22, 2010

smargaret said:
Yeah, and then I conceded the point once it was pointed out that the assumption - that you had some environmental exposure to mafia - was false. Why are you bringing that up?

Umm idk...

smarg said:
I feel like J's defense of kuz is a scummy defense. He completely dismisses the possibility of noobscum, when several people have pointed out contradictions in what kuz was asking - if he'd read any of those guides, I have a hard time seeing how he wouldn't know what a cop was.

Because you just called me out on it 10 posts ago?

You also tie this back to J to further incriminate him who I am beginning to feel is the town scapegoat of your scummy ways. If you realize your assumption was wrong, why use it further to attack J?

TW's reactions are not telling me that much about his involvement with either of you.

J & TW: how do you both feel about smarg's insistence that I am noobscum, and what are your thoughts about his accusations?

smargaret · Nov 22, 2010

th3kuzinator said:
So the way I voted for you, with the suspicion there may be a facade/scum alliance between you J and TW, made you vote me?

That is the exact OMGUS thing you posted above, is it not?

How does the fact that it is a pressure vote tie into this at all?

Cello asked me why I would vote the person I did, and I responded truthfully.

I am trying to answer all your questions btw, but I keep getting ninjad while trying to look up the posts I am commenting on

Okay. And OMGUS exchange goes something like this:

Person A: I think Person B is scum because X. Vote: Person B.
Person B: I'm clearly town. Person A is scum. Vote: Person A.

A non-OMGUS exchange might look like this:
Person A: I think Person B is scum because X. Vote: Person B.
Person B: X is a bad case because Y. It's a scummy case. Person A is scum. Vote: Person A.

I didn't vote you; I left my vote on J because I think he's scum too. I think you are scum because of the reason for which you voted me - you didn't think I was scum, and you said it was a pressure vote. You don't say you're voting to pressure someone because then there's no pressure applied.

Also, you don't have to answer every question posed to you. You do have to address them - but you can decline to answer. For example, if I were to say to you "Was that a pressure vote or do you actually think smar is scum?" you would be well within your rights to say "WTF you don't say whether something is a pressure vote, why are you trying to get me to do that?". Or if I were to say "kuz, what's your role?" you could (and should!) say "wtf why do you want to know that right now, that's rolefishing and scum shouldn't get that information out there in the thread."

smargaret · Nov 22, 2010

Toastin Walrus said:
1&2) You have to able to differentiate between scummy contradictions, and plain contradictions.

2) I buy it. He's like superduper obv town.

3) So, let me get this straight. You GMEOY Gord (well, TW - that's me too, that's not a good idea) for adding pressure to a wagon you were attempting to form? Did you merely want to appear as if you were pressuring, or did you feel that the way in which Gord added pressure was scummy? You'll say the latter so I'd like to know how.

4) Do you think it would be beneficial for Gord to buddy up to you (after you post that pic confirming you are willing to hold hands) if he were scum?

Gord thinks you're town by the way. He said in our chat.

1 and 2: We disagree about the nature of the contradictions, then.

3. I have a town read on you, but I'm not sure how much of that is genuine and how much of it is an artifact of Gboy agreeing with me. The IGMEOY is more to remind myself that my early town reads aren't always town.

4. Uh, yeah, that's kind of the point of buddying.

smargaret · Nov 22, 2010

th3kuzinator said:
Umm idk...

Because you just called me out on it 10 posts ago?

You also tie this back to J to further incriminate him who I am beginning to feel is the town scapegoat of your scummy ways. If you realize your assumption was wrong, why use it further to attack J?

TW's reactions are not telling me that much about his involvement with either of you.

J & TW: how do you both feel about smarg's insistence that I am noobscum, and what are your thoughts about his accusations?

I called you out ten posts ago for not knowing what a cop was. Cop is the most common non-vanilla town role in the game of mafia. It's like sitting me down two years after having me play chess once and asking me what the most powerful piece in the game is, and me not knowing. That was not the same argument.

I don't see how it was an attack on J, by the way.

And I'm a woman.

smargaret · Nov 22, 2010

to specify how it's not an attack on J:

I'm making two separate points here.

1. You are contradicting yourself.
2. J should see these contradictions, as several people have already pointed them out. Instead of considering the possibility that you are scum, J is chainsaw defending you. This leads me to believe that you and J are scumbuddies.

The fact that you don't know what a cop is does not make J scummy. The fact that J refuses to consider noobscum makes J scummy.

Toastin Walrus · Nov 22, 2010

smargaret said:
1 and 2: We disagree about the nature of the contradictions, then.

3. I have a town read on you, but I'm not sure how much of that is genuine and how much of it is an artifact of Gboy agreeing with me. The IGMEOY is more to remind myself that my early town reads aren't always town.

4. Uh, yeah, that's kind of the point of buddying.

I like bananas. I hate bananas.

Is this scummy?

Anyway, this point is irrelevant. A more appropriate analogy would be:

"I like bananas. I hate fruit."

"A banana IS a type of fruit"

"Oh, sorry"

"Scumbag"

What then is the reason for your town read on Gord?

Considering his 'buddying' is precisely the reason you are wary of him - perhaps not.

smargaret · Nov 22, 2010

The town read on gord is gut. And you wouldn't let him loose as scum.

th3kuzinator · Nov 22, 2010

J has yet to say, after viewing my position on the matter 200 posts later, whether she views me as scum or town. She backed me up initially because, like she said, she was in that noob position once and knew how it felt.

IMO, it was too early in the game at that point to really find out whose side anyone was on. She even said right after I thanked her that she would not be backing me up for long so why do you keep going after her like she is defending me until the death?

J: what do you think of me?

dont get romantic on me now

Cello_Marl · Nov 22, 2010

@Kuz: If J were to flip scum, how would that affect your opinion of TW and smarg's alignment (town or scum)? If smarg were to flip town, how would that affect your opinion of Rockin and J's alignment?

@GLG: Trust me and vote for J.

Toastin Walrus · Nov 22, 2010

Ah, unlucky Cello. Looks like we must have got each others role PMs.

Cello_Marl · Nov 22, 2010

.........?

Toastin Walrus · Nov 22, 2010

Durr Cello...

Youz always in da driver's seat. Dat's where we @.

Swissy baby's alwayz scum...

Ya get it now?

th3kuzinator · Nov 22, 2010

Cello_Marl said:
@Kuz: If J were to flip scum, how would that affect your opinion of TW and smarg's alignment (town or scum)? If smarg were to flip town, how would that affect your opinion of Rockin and J's alignment?

I have a hunch that there is at least 1 scum between J, TW, and Smarg. If J were to flip scum, my opinion of smarg would probably change a bit, but nothing drastic.

I am not vouching for J at all this present moment, I just think that accusing him for the comment made in my defense is off base and for all I know he could still be scum regardless.

According to my hunch, that would decrease the likely hood that smarg or TW are scum, but there is still a possibility there. It would also obviously refute my theory that smarg is scapegoating J because, if they were both mafia and smarg was fake arguing with J to draw attention to their relationship, I do not think they would keep it going this long for the fear of a mafia being lynched on the first day which would handicap the hypothetical scum team sufficiently.

TW has refuted smarg on his points concerning me but has not really commented on what he feels about J, which he continues to ignore despite my questions.

TW: what do you think of smarg's reasons for incriminating J?

If smarg were to flip town...then I would either suspect a J, TW scum alliance or at least one of them being scum.

Bleh, sorry about my gender mixups to you all.

Toastin Walrus · Nov 22, 2010

@Kuz

You makin me grind mah teef.

I gotcha reasons fo finkin smargz = scum.

I think i gotcha reason fo finkin TW = scum.

Now... y u fink J = scum?

Ryunnosuke · Nov 22, 2010

One of the issues for the suspicion on J is that he was perfectly of accepting of Kuz's noob card. I think that's understandable, and don't see it as a scum buddy defense.

Between TW, Smarg, and J, I wasn't getting any scum reads except for TW's nonchalant defense early game. Looking back on that I think it may have just been from early game attitudes of RVS and the first hour posting frenzy that confused me. I'm also still getting used to the idea that TW is hyrdra, don't have much experience with those yet.

Swiss, yeah I'm Ryu from NB7. Sorry about that, I'll treat this game with more care.

I'm not really wanting to suspect J, may have something to do with the kewl PW avatar. J just seemed to buy the newbcard early I guess. Smarg's coming off as very town to me, though.

#HBC | Dark Horse · Nov 22, 2010

Unvote: Vote:Kuz

He's been playing the noob card ("Shut up! I'm new, be nice to me!", which i find scummy

And he fos'd me for no reason.

Swiss · Nov 22, 2010

@ Mod can we post hydra chat logs?

Toastin Walrus · Nov 22, 2010

[17:03] gorditoboy69: DARK HORSE IS AN IDIOT
[17:04] t_swiss@hotmail.co.uk: HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
[17:04] t_swiss@hotmail.co.uk: I was just thinking that
[17:04] t_swiss@hotmail.co.uk: Like, word for word

Toastin Walrus · Nov 22, 2010

I luv da way Swissy baby makes me look liek s***.

@Rockin

Tru tru

. We should'a killed Chibo when we had da chance.

@Smargz

@th3

I gotz much more of da suspicion of J. Swissy baby is finkin meh on da guy.

Cello_Marl · Nov 22, 2010

12. Do not quote logs of communication with other players.

Think before you post.

Delvro · Nov 22, 2010

While I have undigestable qualms about agreeing with Cello's little crusade, it seems that I must agree with his assessment of J as anti-town.

VOTE: J

There is a TvT debate going on in here that's really distracting me (and others).

Also, I direct the Town's attention to this interesting post here:

BunBun said:
Well guys, I come in after RoM results and see 14 pages.

*READ READ READ*

IIRC, I was in a game run by Rockin a year ago. That was it.

I like the Lynch All Liars approach. Innocent people should have no reason to lie.
This includes lying by omission, such as ignoring a question asked to you.

Cello_Marl: What made you so sure that Smargaret is town?

Tandora: What is your opinion on J's responses to Cello's claim that he is scum

Also, good night!

The question to Tandora shows his interest in the case against J.

Keep in mind that this post is after Cello placed his attack on J, and it Bunbun's only post A.C. (after Cello) that mentions J.

Toastin Walrus · Nov 22, 2010

Oh. Fergot.

Unvote Vote DH

I wanna get all my fellaz in on dis.

AND NOW A MESSAGE FROM OUR SWISS:

[17:20] t_swiss@hotmail.co.uk: Elaborating on the 'LOL DH log' - DH, considering you have extensive experience on being called out on tells similar to this (when town), why are you voting Kuz? The time for a pressure wagon has passed, so you actually find him scummy? Why?

Toastin Walrus · Nov 22, 2010

Ninja'd by Cello.

Won't post no mo logs dat'll, liek, clear us. Silly ones liek da DH IS AN IDIOT thing, methinks dat dats cool amirite?

th3kuzinator · Nov 22, 2010

Dark Horse said:
Unvote: Vote:Kuz

He's been playing the noob card ("Shut up! I'm new, be nice to me!", which i find scummy

And he fos'd me for no reason.

Lol. First of all that fos was complete jokes. Re-read that post if you have to.

When did I ever tell people to 'shut up and be nice to me'? When I confirmed I just let everyone know I was new and was just saying it in a normal fashion. Smarg has already called me out on the noob card and I have already discussed my stance on the issue (and if you have read my last few posts, I think I am getting less noobish so I dont know why you are bringing that point up when it has already been discussed by other people)

And, besides J backing me up way back when in early RVS, no one has vouched for me on the basis that I am a noob and therefore I should not be suspected. Cello and TW have made comments that I am noob town because that is how they view what I have posted so far, not just by the simple fact that I am new (which I fricken am)

Staying quiet this whole time and then coming in to piggyback on smarg's argument a whole day later?

I saw you viewing this thread at other times so you cannot simply dismiss yourself that you were absent. You also posted something trivial a page back or so and made no attempt to continue or contribute the conversation from the previous night.

That sounds pretty scummy in itself: trying to stay quiet at first and then just going along with someone elses argument never drawing much attention to yourself.

@TW: At this present moment I do not think J is scum, nor do I have any strong evidence he is town either. From the counter argument between you three from J's chainsaw defense (hope I am using that term correctly) I think there may be at least one scum in your ranks.

If you and smarg were to both flip town, then I would be all over J as scum. In this case, smarg was doing legitimate town scum hunting and you may have backed him up a little which I feel is justifiable. If J were to flip town I would then be looking at you and smarg as a possible alliance or at least one of you as scum.

kuz said:
If smarg were to flip town...then I would either suspect a J, TW scum alliance or at least one of them being scum.

Upon thinking about it, I will revise this statement. If smarg were to flip town then I would probably suspect either you or J as scum, but probably no alliance.

#HBC | Dark Horse · Nov 22, 2010

[17:20] t_swiss@hotmail.co.uk: Elaborating on the 'LOL DH log' - DH, considering you have extensive experience on being called out on tells similar to this (when town), why are you voting Kuz? The time for a pressure wagon has passed, so you actually find him scummy? Why?

Never have I gone prancing around, saying I'm new, don't hurt me. I think he's being sconces by a person to keep the noobcard going.

Cello_Marl · Nov 22, 2010

Kuz said:
If you and smarg were to both flip town, then I would be all over J as scum. In this case, smarg was doing legitimate town scum hunting and you may have backed him up a little which I feel is justifiable. If J were to flip town I would then be looking at you and smarg as a possible alliance or at least one of you as scum.

Wouldn't this mean that J is now equally good as a source of information? Would it be worth it to you to switch over to him as a show of good faith to me?

McMaymays · Nov 22, 2010

Toastin Walrus said:
[17:03] gorditoboy69: DARK HORSE IS AN IDIOT
[17:04] t_swiss@hotmail.co.uk: HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
[17:04] t_swiss@hotmail.co.uk: I was just thinking that
[17:04] t_swiss@hotmail.co.uk: Like, word for word

12. Do not quote logs of communication with other players.

Do it again and you will be modkilled.

Delvro · Nov 22, 2010

Dark Horse said:
Never have I gone prancing around, saying I'm new, don't hurt me. I think he's being sconces by a person to keep the noobcard going.

I'm replying to you, but This goes for everyone: it's important to remember that people's actions are reflective BOTH of their PERSONALITY as well as their ALIGNMENT.

There aren't 13 Dark Horses playing this game.
Just because he'd do something that you'd never dream of doing doesn't make him scum. It also doesn't confirm him as town.

This kind of evidence I really feel should be thrown out. I feel like we've really gotten sidetracked with this whole noob thing.

Toastin Walrus · Nov 22, 2010

@Kuz

So, if wat I read iz rite...

Yu'd rather risk da town flips of me and smargz ta find one scum in J, rather than da 1 town flip of J ta find 2 scum in me and smargz?

First of all, I'm confident in sayin dis cuz I know I ain't scum. Duh. And I know yu fink dat J MIGHT be scum. Gettin on J's wagon would help out a bunch, cuz if he flips town, ya have a clear view of who ta go after, rather den wait two whole Days for lynches dat won't happen ta find one scum.

#HBC | Dark Horse · Nov 22, 2010

Lol. First of all that fos was complete jokes. Re-read that post if you have to.

Fine by me

When did I ever tell people to 'shut up and be nice to me'? When I confirmed I just let everyone know I was new and was just saying it in a normal fashion. Smarg has already called me out on the noob card and I have already discussed my stance on the issue

That was an exaggeration. You've been more like "Hey, why are so many people avaunt me? I'm new"

(and if you have read my last few posts, I think I am getting less noobish so I dont know why you are bringing that point up when it has already been discussed by other people)

You had done it a couple of posts back. Not exactly dead & gone

And, besides J backing me up way back when in early RVS, no one has vouched for me on the basis that I am a noob and therefore I should not be suspected. Cello and TW have made comments that I am noob town because that is how they view what I have posted so far, not just by the simple fact that I am new (which I fricken am)

Abusing it is scummy in my book

Staying quiet this whole time and then coming in to piggyback on smarg's argument a whole day later?

...and now you're skimming. I gave a reason why.

I saw you viewing this thread at other times so you cannot simply dismiss yourself that you were absent. You also posted something trivial a page back or so and made no attempt to continue or contribute the conversation from the previous night.

You mean telling everyone why i've not been posting.

Toastin Walrus · Nov 22, 2010

God DH do you ever do anything?

McMaymays · Nov 22, 2010

Many of you are making "mistakes" that are clearly labeled in the rules, making it obvious you have not read them. If we catch any of you breaking the rules one more time, how "little" it may be, you will be modkilled immediately. If the modkill is town, it will end the day. If the modkill is scum, the day will continue.

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