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Match-Up Discussion: Luigi

Joined
Mar 28, 2008
Messages
4,285


How do we win?
What do we watch out for?
Stages to BAN/CP?
Tips/Tricks when fighting this character?
Videos?
MU classification?




Remember, we are not using the "mu ratio" scheme anymore. Describe the MU using the following MU classifications:


Heavy Disadvantage
Disadvantage
Slight Disadvantage
Even
Slight Advantage
Advantage
Heavy Advantage
 
Joined
Mar 28, 2008
Messages
4,285
That is not helping to discuss the match up in the slightest. Give constructive input or do not post in this topic.

Also to counter act that comment. I play a top Luigi at least once a week. Then theres people like Biglou and Boss.
 

Crystanium

Smash Hero
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Oh, I've played several Luigi's on Wi-Fi in the past. They weren't really easy to battle with. I even kept on getting hit by a Luigi who used Down+B. Anyway, it's Luigi's slipperiness and his dangerous jab to Up+B that you should look out for. Also, Down+B can be quite annoying, especially since Samus does well in mid- to long-range attacks. Down+B can be used to close in the gap, forcing you to get back into at least mid-range. Simply put, stay out of Luigi's range because he will tear you up!

Luigi has a pretty good recovery, too, so don't think that once he's off the stage he's not going to make it back. It is possible to spike him, even when he uses Green Missile. However, this is somewhat risky, especially if Green Missile gets that effect that causes more damage and knock-back. Samus' d-air isn't that quick, and accidentally getting in the way of the Green Missile, rather than being above it can mean a lost stock. I'd say fire a one or two Homing Missiles to interrupt Luigi before spiking. If Luigi is further out or lower, you may use a Charge Shot.
 

Throwback

Smash Lord
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How do we win?

run away, run away! Seriously though, run away.

When he gets outside ftilt range, simply play reactive. if he short-hops, zair him and even an air-dodge won't get him close thanks to his balls air-speed. If he stays grounded, your tilts out-range him or short-hopping protects you from rolls - which he will eventually have to try if he wants to break the samus wall.

What do we watch out for?

Luigi getting close, mainly. Also watch out for his seemingly god-priority aerials, particularly nair interrupting almost any combo you try, and dair beating uair every time.

Down B will be used to close the gap, if you shield it you can punish with pretty much anything. the risk/reward is very much in samus/ favour with this move, make sure you make it count.

Luigi's roll is pretty damn long and the animation is hard (for me) to see. Frequent short-hopping in the danger range will keep you safe. If he does get behind you, just shield - eating a throw is better than eating upB.

D-throw always needs to be DId left or right, otherwise it combos to upB below 40% or something.

Stages to BAN/CP?

Samus does fine on almost any stage against luigi, I would suggest banning yoshis or frigate. CP the usual FD if it's not banned or halberd.


Tips/Tricks when fighting this character?

Don't get close, ever.

Videos?

I wish I had infinite replays on my wii :(

MU classification?

Advantage. Luigi is just too slow in the air and on the ground and he slides too far when he shields. He will murder you if he gets close though, so don't let that happen.
 

BigLøu

Smash Lord
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The matchup is more or less even imo. The trick really as people probably already know is to keep luigi out. Unfortunatly for samus, she is so floaty that Luigi has an easier time getting near her then against other characters with a good projectile game.

Most of the kills against Luigi with samus should be low percentage gimps. Don't let Luigi live too long to mount up a comeback.

I'm mainly just theory crafting since I haven't really played any samus' as Luigi, but I think this is some way of how the matchup goes. I can see it as more or less even.
 
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It's okay Biglou you pretty much got every single thing on point. I agree that it's probably even or 55-45 either way.

Throwback I think you're underestimating Luigi as a character in general. He can dash OoS then just powershield anything we throw at him (obviously being unpredictable helps) but at the end of the day he will get in and you WILL be eating some damage.

I find that Power Missiles rip Luigi apart. He HATES these things. Me and JMiller have discovered that the only option he has without putting himself at risk here is to powershield. Should he use an aerial to beat the missile we can zair him afterwards. Luigi is FORCED to stay grounded in this MU, he should only jump when he's going to combo your *** to hell and back. I made an informative post about this MU in the old MU thread, I'll just go find it.

Edit: Found it

Chances of winning:

KillerJawz: 50-50
What does the enemy think:

JMiller: 50-50
How does Samus win/do well:

KillerJawz: Okay this matchup is going to be one where if you are a generally spammy/campy Samus, you will BRING IN THE BENEFITS. Luigi has an issue with his traction, do the slightest move on him or his shield, and he goes SPEEDING away, now you can obviously think of what im suggesting. CAMP. Yes camp. Spam your missles and zair against him, especially when he's shielding because he will have much greater pushback then other characters. Luigi has to get in to rack up damage, he cannot camp and his best approach options in this match up are to powershield or use his down B to quickly outprioritise our missles and get in, but even then, we can OoS UpB ALL of his aerials, just not his smashes, so we are pretty safe here.

Another cool thing about this match up is Samus' jab. Her jab naturally has a large amount of pushback, so when it's used on Luigi he goes SOARING away, so whilst jab cancels are not very useful here, the gtfo option is totally worth the exchange. Luigi should be taking a minimum of about 40 damage before he gets in. Luigi can also attempt to approach from the air however, he will likely NEVER do this because he has a very poor air speed, poor mobility and an average airdodge, so simply zairing will knock him out of the sky and he will be forced to try another method to approach.

Missile to grab combos work wonders on Luigi because of the pushback the missle has, it puts him in a perfect position to get grabbed, where we can use a fthrow or bthrow to rack up some damage.
What should Samus watch out for:

KillerJawz: Luigi's airgame is far better then ours, I'll come out with it now. Equipped with fair, he can chop through our spam and give us a real damage racking by forcing us offstage or just getting into our area. When Luigi is in, get him out ASAP, otherwise, he will have a variety of chains on you, and since Samus is tall and floaty, his uair and utilt strings are BEASTLY. Luigi's nair, dair and bair attacks can all clank with charge shot so it just goes past him rather then damaging him, so please just try and hit him while he's grounded. If Luigi doesnt powershield this, he is being sent back about the third of FD's length, so yeah, keep that pressure on. Luigi's dair has a very small spike hitbox on it that is pretty weak but can catch you off guard, and even if the spike doesn't kill, it can set Luigi up to gimp you.

Luigi has the ability to gimp Samus. Whilst its very very difficult, it's possible and can be quite frustrating. Basically, Luigi's rising down B tornado has a sort of pull when it connects with you, if you are bomb jumping, this move will pull you out of your jump and throw you somewhere off stage, where Luigi will be able to edgeguard you, be very very careful when bomb stalling, never do it when Luigi is below you. Either go for a spike on him or gimp him with missles and zair, since these stop down b's momentum dead in it's tracks.

Luigi's jab can be cancelled into a variety of moves, including his Up B which is a MONSTER of a killing move and will end us around 75, so please be careful, also note that if we are slightly airborne when he jabs, we cannot avoid it, and are simply going to eat an Up B. If you are at lower percentages he will follow up with pivot grabs, more jabs or even tilts/smashes. On this point, Luigi's ground game just destroys us outside of our ftilt, it outranges all of his moves, but it's still quite nasty to get hit by one of his ground moves, because literally all of them combo into another move, even his freaking down tilt :/ (Up B can be done out of his down tilt if it trips you)

A word of warning, DO NOT FOLLOW UP A DTHROW WITH A CLOSE RANGE AERIAL. Luigi has a move which I have nicknamed "Carrier" which is his neutral aerial. This move is a very very strong kill move, especially when it's used as a rising move OoS, it's extremely destructive and is quite difficult to DI. It works extremely well on floaties like Samus and is very dangerous, so look out.
What stages should Samus counter pick/Ban:

KillerJawz: Samus will need to counterpick FD against Luigi, he suffers very very hard on this stage due to the lack of obstructions and it's far easier to gimp him here

Pokemon stadium is also an option.

Ban Smashville, he can use that moving platform very well to get in.
 

Throwback

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Throwback I think you're underestimating Luigi as a character in general. He can dash OoS then just powershield anything we throw at him (obviously being unpredictable helps) but at the end of the day he will get in and you WILL be eating some damage.
If luigi couldn't get in, the match-up would be 100-0, yes? The question is, how much damage does luigi take getting in, how often does he get in, and how much damage does he do once he is in.

If luigi is powershielding everything, he's quite simply the best player in the world, since homing missile, super missile and zair all have different timing. Then you can add in charge shot or empty SH, FF to ftilt/dilt.

Lastly, samus is actually FASTER than luigi horizontally, both on and off the ground - a situation samus can abuse tremendously. Samus really shouldn't be getting close enough to be upB'd (or fsmashed, really) at any point unless luigi rolls behind her.

The match is very winnable for luigi, but it's an uphill battle the entire way - therefore, I say it's advantage samus.
 
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That is true, Luigi will always take damage getting in. However you seem to think that the field we're on is the size of Bridge of Elden. FD really isn't as big as people say it is. In the time we've shot about 3 homing missiles, Luigi will be right next to you. Powershielding Samus's spam really is not difficult. Any average player can do it, it's simple. Sure you can mispredict and get hit by it, but eventually Luigi WILL get in. You'll be forced to get him out or get away. Luigi's jab is absolutely superb. He can combo in and out with it and every single time he will get AT LEAST 20-25% on us, that's being negative. He can probably string about 60% on us with very good reads.

Luigi doesn't have to fsmash or Upb us. He has plenty of killers in his arsenal. Nair when we try to follow up will end us at about 135 or so with good DI. Usmash is a great killer on floaties, as is "The Paw" (utilt) at higher percentages.
 

Throwback

Smash Lord
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I fully agree that luigi is going to completely wreck samus once he gets in. But it really is difficult for him to do so. Furthermore, his woeful speed lets samus charge her beam easily, which is very, very underestimated.

You say, even, I say advantage - either way we agree that Samus can do well in this matchup.
 

KoRoBeNiKi

Smash Hero
Writing Team
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Slippi.gg
KORO#668
I faced a good Samus by me a few tournaments ago (Rhyme).

Luigi has issues spacing vs Samus's z-air. The issue is KO'ing for Samus but Samus can gimp quite easily due to Samus's d-air being dumb vs Luigi's green missile/up b/down b. Though as said, once we can get in, we deal massive damage. The main issue is that Luigi's floatiness gets in the way of us approaching as well.

Pick stages that Luigi has issues approaching (the more room and the less platforms the better), I auto-ban FD vs. Samus mains. I believe Rhyme won on PS1 and maybe SV (?). I like Yoshi's or BF as platforms help.

I believe I counter picked frigate Orpheon to force approaches and won there. Overall I thought the matchup is probably 60-40 Samus (slight advantage) due to Luigi having a difficult time approaching and Samus having a moderately easy time gimping (to make up for having difficulty killing).

I find that Samus's bombs can also be useful in the matchup, they prevent our down b approaches.
 
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