I've having a ton of trouble with a friend of mine who plays marth. He never approaches, just dd and wd around until I try to approach, so I decided baiting would be the best solution. What are some ways to bait marth into a grab, etc?
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Baiting
- Thread starter J_Noodles
- Start date
DD yourself
Be patient.
If you always attack, he'll always know that you're going to attack.
It's really hard for new players to be really patient, but I mean if he's not going to attack, that's fine. Just DD until he does.
Alternatively, watch his character very closely and while DDing, go for a grab or a uair at low altitude [right before you hit the ground]. The L cancel is like 7 frames I think, so you can usually get out if he doesn't expect it.
But don't spam that. That's the point, is to switch up your gameplay and do something new.
Be patient.
If you always attack, he'll always know that you're going to attack.
It's really hard for new players to be really patient, but I mean if he's not going to attack, that's fine. Just DD until he does.
Alternatively, watch his character very closely and while DDing, go for a grab or a uair at low altitude [right before you hit the ground]. The L cancel is like 7 frames I think, so you can usually get out if he doesn't expect it.
But don't spam that. That's the point, is to switch up your gameplay and do something new.
Mokumo
Smash Ace
and when he does attack you don't shield/roll/spotdodge to avoid it. space yourself well and jump/dash away instead. especially against marth youll have the time to punish a lot of his moves by dodging it that way
Kanelol
Smash Lord
really tight spacing is the best way to bait bad attacks
Metal Reeper
Smash Champion
Yeah....I also have no idea how to bait. Maybe just get close to him, then get away real qucik and see if he approaches? IDK. I wish I played a campy Marth.
Once you get a stock though it's your turn to camp.
Once you get a stock though it's your turn to camp.
Shadow Huan
Smash Champion
i have some ways to deal with a campy Marth as Falcon (I play against Flaco's Marth a lot or used to, he's got an awkward/campy marth) but I'm AWFUL at write ups
DD and camp him back.
as far as approaching goes it depends on how the marth player reacts...
If when you approach he grabs, hop over him and dair his head.
If he fairs, you can try and come in low and sneak an U-air between the fairs, or even nair. (they're Falcons fastest areials)
mostly what I'm trying to get across is that you're falcon, you're faster than marth, it's what you do, baiting is primarily trying to get a handle on what he likes to do and then punishing him for being predictable. once you get through the camping, grab = combo= knee = death lol
DD and camp him back.
as far as approaching goes it depends on how the marth player reacts...
If when you approach he grabs, hop over him and dair his head.
If he fairs, you can try and come in low and sneak an U-air between the fairs, or even nair. (they're Falcons fastest areials)
mostly what I'm trying to get across is that you're falcon, you're faster than marth, it's what you do, baiting is primarily trying to get a handle on what he likes to do and then punishing him for being predictable. once you get through the camping, grab = combo= knee = death lol
Wenbobular
Smash Hero
- Joined
- May 26, 2006
- Messages
- 5,744
I think Hax once said that Marth vs Falcon should always start with at least 30 seconds of running around not hitting each other
If they're never in the air you can start overshooting aerials to catch them in the dashdance
Or intentionally not fastfalling to screw up their dashdance rhythm
Have to maul them the second they jump though haha
Just be wary of autocancel Nairs / late aerials
If they're never in the air you can start overshooting aerials to catch them in the dashdance
Or intentionally not fastfalling to screw up their dashdance rhythm
Have to maul them the second they jump though haha
Just be wary of autocancel Nairs / late aerials
Mokumo
Smash Ace
if you can get him to try to grab you have a free chance to grab.
if you can get him to fsmash you get free knee.
the best way to bait him into doing these things is basically to feign an approach. i dont know which hax video it is (maybe i'll find/post it later) but the commentary talks about how he makes his opponent try to think he's committing to a bair when he really isn't - its just a bait. as soon as you can predict ONE move that marth (or any other character really) is going to do, and you're properly spaced, falcon can get a hit/grab. and as we all know, after that one grab, its done. or at least it can be.
if you can get him to fsmash you get free knee.
the best way to bait him into doing these things is basically to feign an approach. i dont know which hax video it is (maybe i'll find/post it later) but the commentary talks about how he makes his opponent try to think he's committing to a bair when he really isn't - its just a bait. as soon as you can predict ONE move that marth (or any other character really) is going to do, and you're properly spaced, falcon can get a hit/grab. and as we all know, after that one grab, its done. or at least it can be.
Mokumo
Smash Ace
found it. didn't take me as long as i thought it would
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-diB65scQU
check out 0:45. even the commentary talks about it. hax shffls a bair, and then double jumps into a waveland away from fox. HUGE mindgame. fox takes the bait and goes for a nair where hax would have been if he had double jumped into a bair (instead of the waveland). he didn't quite get a grab/combo from there but it put him in a position where he was able to get a stock off almost right away
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-diB65scQU
check out 0:45. even the commentary talks about it. hax shffls a bair, and then double jumps into a waveland away from fox. HUGE mindgame. fox takes the bait and goes for a nair where hax would have been if he had double jumped into a bair (instead of the waveland). he didn't quite get a grab/combo from there but it put him in a position where he was able to get a stock off almost right away
Wenbobular
Smash Hero
- Joined
- May 26, 2006
- Messages
- 5,744
Getting the feeling you put the wrong link down...
Also
if you want to post a video to give us a better idea of what you're talking about, I started a video critique thread.
So if you guys ever need any help with anything, feel free to post a video in there.
Mokumo
Smash Ace
LMAO i did didn't i... haha well at least you all got to listen to an awesome song for a sec.
here it is:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JcjcNcHYgGY
The Irish Mafia
Banned via Administration
Mokumo is the homie
0room's signature is awesome
0room's signature is awesome
Metal Reeper
Smash Champion
That quote makes me want to main Falcon <3
ArcNatural
Banned ( ∫x, δx Points)
Common ways to bait grabs from Marth (which are all situational and you need to make the best of it) are:
Raptor Boost methods (learn the animation spacing for when Falcon pulls back during raptor boost is important):
1. If your being tech chased, you can sometimes raptor boost to avoid grabs (depending on spacing it may be better to raptor boost backwards as Marth's grab reaches far in front and you can sometimes get behind him this way. It's just an option instead of buffer rolling or some other evasion method. Just be aware that you can do it if the spacing is right.
2. Aerials L-canceled to raptor boost. Again depending on spacing you can raptor boost so that the animation makes you end up behind him. You have to judge if the spacing will get you out of Marth's grab range.
3. Basically anytime you think the raptor boost range will put you out of range of marth's grab when you do it. Just learn to adapt when the Marth realizes what your doing and starts baiting the raptor boost.
Other Methods:
1. Aerials specifically spaced to allow you to dash away or forward without much risk to yourself and see if he tries to grab.
2. Aerials that you get shield stun with to dashes behind or away to see if he tries to shield grab.
3. Wavelanding so that you appear your going to land close but you waveland to bait the grab.
4. Jumping then double jumping right before you would of landed in front of him baiting a grab.
I think that's a lot of the most common concepts of baiting grabs with Falcon. I know people will probably lol at the raptor boost section, but honestly just make yourself aware that you can do it in those situations. Just don't spam it like an idiot and become predictable.
Raptor Boost methods (learn the animation spacing for when Falcon pulls back during raptor boost is important):
1. If your being tech chased, you can sometimes raptor boost to avoid grabs (depending on spacing it may be better to raptor boost backwards as Marth's grab reaches far in front and you can sometimes get behind him this way. It's just an option instead of buffer rolling or some other evasion method. Just be aware that you can do it if the spacing is right.
2. Aerials L-canceled to raptor boost. Again depending on spacing you can raptor boost so that the animation makes you end up behind him. You have to judge if the spacing will get you out of Marth's grab range.
3. Basically anytime you think the raptor boost range will put you out of range of marth's grab when you do it. Just learn to adapt when the Marth realizes what your doing and starts baiting the raptor boost.
Other Methods:
1. Aerials specifically spaced to allow you to dash away or forward without much risk to yourself and see if he tries to grab.
2. Aerials that you get shield stun with to dashes behind or away to see if he tries to shield grab.
3. Wavelanding so that you appear your going to land close but you waveland to bait the grab.
4. Jumping then double jumping right before you would of landed in front of him baiting a grab.
I think that's a lot of the most common concepts of baiting grabs with Falcon. I know people will probably lol at the raptor boost section, but honestly just make yourself aware that you can do it in those situations. Just don't spam it like an idiot and become predictable.
Lol Irish Mafia I told you I still had it
Reeper do it
No bad can come from it
Except maybe W/L ratio
But that's not as important as tech chasing spacies!
Also Arc Natural, I agree with you. I don't think any option should be excluded, every option has it's uses, just some are less useful than others.
Mokumo
Smash Ace
relax james
is your avatar supposed to look like matt.zeb or is that just a coincidence?
anyway: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-VLjNuvze0c
check out around 1:40. isai starts dding like crazy and pretty much waits for azen to approach. he baits the grab and then ***** him. just a little after he spaces a dtilt perfectly out of range of a shield grab and then get an easy stock.
the whole match is awesome anyway