Balloon Blast Matchup Thread #3 - Ice Climbers

Matchup Ratio: +1​

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banana control is more key here than any other MU in my opinion. if ICs get control of both bananas it's not a good situation by any means. as much as i love diddy's Dash attack, i dont' use it too often in this MU unless one of them has tripped against a ledge, mostly cause if you trip one, the other can still possibly shield grab you out of it.

Ice blocks can be a real pain at times, last time i did this MU i usually just threw a banana over ice-blocks being shot at me and would usually get a trip with how my banana throw was spaced.

Last ICs player i played never recovered with their Up-B, always side-b in fear of the spike/edge guard, punish the landing on the side-b when able.

I dont know how easy diddy is to CG for them, regardless i feel this MU is either even or +1. Been a while and that's all i can think of off the top of my head

Diddy can get sopo chain grabbed up to 62% from 0% with a fresh dthrow.
Ice blocks will bounce bananas straight up.
I think we can fair inbetween blizzwalls to knock them out of it (just make sure you hit popo) but only try that if they have both bananas and the lead.
If they up b to the ledge we can run off bair to stage spike popo.
Camp as hard as you can , once these kids get a hold of you your most likely dead unless nana trips or they screw up. even if sopo is only left you want to camp, the more percent they have to cg us the more likely nana is to trip and it is for the player to screw up the CG, so dont start rushin in there just cause its sopo
They love the same stages as us so no worries for them cping us to a gay place
I'd cp them to PS1 or Delfino
Even or +1 diddy like every other mu we've discussed so far

Careful with them naners! I know they're high in fiber, but popo and nana love em! Sure you hit popo nana catches the naner! She throws it as popo gets up and he dashes the other naner.

In this MU I really like to camp the edges and surround myself in bananas. If they have a banana then still camp near the edge so that way if you get hit you just fall onto the ledge. Dash attack works well as a follow up after you hit them with a banana or to punish an airdodge, but you have to be really careful because it can be punished with a grab kind of easily if they know the MU. If you surround yourself with bananas or something like that then Fair also works really well if you space it correctly. Diddy can wreck them offstage pretty easily. Diddy has one of the fastest spikes in the game so that works will if you can get nana offstage by herself. Throwing bananas at them offstage/banana plucking is an amazing edgeguard and if you manage to hit them with it at all most of the time one or both of them will die.

I usually like flat stages in this MU, I've heard from others that they like stages like BF so you can land safely, but FD and SV I find it easier to keep momentum going.

Ice Climbers have some tricks with bananas, but I really don't know them well enough to explain them that well. I think the MU is 55:45 Diddy's favor.

Last time i did this MU, banana placement was key, even when i got grabbed, it was harder than usual for the ICs to CG me since somehow i always got a banana in Nana's hand, so them having one isn't always a disadvantage just of course approach with caution.

The person i played also baited A LOT, making it seem as if nana was vulnerable but in reality it was just a trap, be on the look out for desynced ice block>nana grab.

I banned FD the last time i did this MU, starting on battlefield and CPing delfino. I also agree PS1 would be a decent CP.

It seems to me like Diddy ***** ICs.

I had problems at first (didn't really know the MU), but after I lost to istudy I played against cpu ICs really often and watched many vids of ADHD vs ICs and it looked so easy I always wondered how he does it... he just gimps Nana all day. And so I tried to do the same. Like I said I played really often against cpu ICs to learn how Nana acts and stuff. If you've played them enough you know what she'll probably do (still random sometimes though ~_~) and then she's just... a victim. Diddy ***** her sooooooo hard. If you get a grab of and manage to fair/spike her she's so dead lol (but watch out for Popo to rescue her/edgehog you).

Like it was said already banana placement is important and you have to learn that you can't throw a banana at them and then rush them with dash attacks or something. This won't work most of the time, BUT: grabs will be really good.
You can try to throw a banana at them to be protectet from a potential grab and follow up with a grab and immediately throw them if you grab one (or maybe pummel so the other one gets hit from that). [don't do this if the banana will end up landing on a platform above you, because then you won't be protected] If you grab someone you can't be grabbed, so it's pretty safe (especially if there's a banana to cover your approach).
So try to grab Nana at low %s (so that you'll get easier followups on her), throw her away, follow up with fair to dair or something (depending on where she is (is she already offstags/is she at the right height to dair her etc)). Most of the time I'd say it's the easiest to wait for her to be at the right height and then dj-dair her to gimp her.

Keep in mind that if they're seperated you can play more risky and try to **** them. If you hit them away from each other like ALWAYS go after Nana and NOT Popo (unless you can gimp him or something), because that's an opportunity to gimp/KO her! (maybe it can work as a Mindgame to go after Nana and when Popo runs at you you surprise attack him, but this doesn't really work for me (always get's shielded and maybe even shieldgrabbed and then Nana is already there...).
Nana also won't really DI if they're seperated. If she runs back at Popo don't try to attack in the direction she comes from (if you plan on charging a smash or something), but in the direction she's running to. She will have really bad DI and if you can charge it enough she can die at like 60 %. But watch out because she randomly jumps sometimes...

Also, play defensively. Get the lead early (with peanuts/bananas) and then camp them. It's not too hard to punish their approach attempts. Not having the lead can make this difficult I guess (but it shouldn't be that hard to keep the lead...). Protect yourself with bananas all the time.
If you try to approach them don't fall for anything. You CAN be grabbed out of your dash attack. And always watch out for their pivot grab. Since both of them grab their grabwindow is longer.

If they blizzard just throw bananas at them (they go through and hit them). If they keep throwing ice blocks just ps them or if you're pressured too much just jump to avoid them (and maybe stay on platforms). If you want to throw bananas at them jump and then throw it.
If they are desynched and blizzard you and you get hit SDI up or away, because the other one could grab you out of it (desynched ice block to grab can also work lol).
Same with if they squall (sideB) at you (it's difficult to get out of that if you got hit already). If one squalls later he could hit you and if the other one's already regained control he could be able to grab you.

If they're in the air then they can't grab you so you can throw out what you want to try to stop them (fair them or whatever). Keep in mind though that the "priority" of their dair and uair is really really good (but only below/above them, so hit them from the sides/with bananas).


As for stages idk I guess most stages are good and I'm not sure if they really affect the MU much. I personally wouldn't take them to Brinstar, because if they're in your face all the time it can be really tough, because of their good priority attacks etc. Although I guess PS1 or Delfino or something can help you.

Some people wouldn't take them to FD, but I think it's still a good stage, because you can throw bananas up to cover you so if they grab you they can't infinite, because the banana will fall down and stop them. (there are never any platforms that stop bananas from coming down again (if they got shielded) to protect you like on YI (big platform that is nearly above the whole stage that will eat your bananas nearly all the time... ))

If you get infinited it could help having a banana in your hand. It could get dropped and rescue you (although you obv shouldn't rely on it lol).



Also, never underestimate solo Popo. He can be difficult to hit so don't take him lightly. You should be able to punish his recovery easily (edgehog to punish or shield to punish if he's going onstage).

If Nana is away and you think you don't have to worry about anything keep in mind that he can CG you to rather high %s if you get grabbed at low % and maybe Nana comes in time so he can infinite you... (another reason to go after Nana if they're seperated).


If they manage to grab a banana from you stay calm. If they have it they can't grab you as easily. But watch out if they desynch it (so one throws the banana and the other can then try to grab you, doesn't really work if not desynched though, I think).

If they have both bananas I'm never that much worried, because they lost their ability to grab. Just don't get hit by their banana throws and peanut them or something. If they use specials you should be able to punish them... or just stay near (probably better if in the air) and wait for them to throw them at you (don't get hit though obviously).



Summary:

*) practise with cpus and study Nanas movement
*) **** Nana
*) gg

(it's obv not that easy but yeah... I think it's like 60:40 / +2 for Diddy)


Edit: oh yeah and keep in mind they have a really high trip **** (2 times more than all others (except Luigi), and they're 2 so the chance is even higher that one of them trips), so **** them for it if it happens lol ; also hope you won't trip into their grab.....

I'm not feeling too well, so wrapping up this thread is going to take a day or two extra. If you want to add anything, please do so, as it's limited.

I like side b in this matchup for some reason. is that weird? if you latch on you can avoid the fsmash from the other IC by pressing A.

also quick throws, don't pummel unless you have them separated.

be careful in knowing their reaction times with your quick throws. if you grab nana, popo still might be able to punish with just about anything. vice versa as well if they're desynced right i believe, though i'm not entirely sure how the desyncing works.