How to Get Good

Darkwing SykeDuk · Dec 1, 2011

y u no good at dis game? I'm sick of knowing the results of a tourney simply by looking at the entrants list >_> Its time for the B and C tier players to stop lurking and crack the top 3.

Herez hao

STEP 1 - KNOW EVERYTHING!!!!!!!

I'm srs, you have to know this game like the back of your hand. Every character/stage/matchup/attack has to be imprinted in your mind. Here are some links I ninja'd to help you.. READ THEM ALL!!!!

Official Terms and Techniques Thread - Created by AlphaZealot and the knowledge supplied by various people. This thread covers everything you need to know about advanced techniques, terms, and tournament related things. An advanced technique is a move or combo that can be pulled off by all characters or specific characters and is not recognized as an official move (in Nintendo guides). These moves are often viewed as glitches but they help your game significantly. It is completely worth your time if you want to get better in general. The terms are various Smash terms that you better get used to. Things such as SHFFL (Short Hop + Fast Fall + L Cancel) and Dair (Down Air). As for the tournament related things, it covers which stages are banned and which ones are acceptable. It is also frequently updated so all the information in it is up to date.

DI, CC, and Teching Guide - DI (Directional Influence), Teching, and Crouch Cancelling are all deeper than usual advanced techniques and can be used for recovery and staying on the field longer than usual. These advanced techniques take control over the frames in Melee. By moving a certain way, you can alter the frames to your advantage. You won't have full control over them but you will have enough control to at least better your game to a degree. Worth a look.

How To Improve

Climbing to the Top: Strategies on how to become Professional

How To Improve - A Compilation

Stepping Up Your Game - Created by FluxWolf. This is a very in-depth guide on how to better your game and become professional. I'd suggest reading over it as it does include several aspects on the basic steps towards bettering your game.

Reaching the Pantheon - Created by The King. The first step in becoming a professional smasher is improving your confidence. This essay will tell you how to overcome your fear of smashing competitively. Trust me, we all get nervous at times. Just give it a once over and you will definitely be on the fast track to becoming a pro.

The Four Aspects of Melee - Created by Wobbles the Phoenix. This is the next level once you have become a confident smasher. It covers how to be an agressive and quick smasher. It also covers mindgames. Mindgames are something of a complicated nature despite it simple definiton, to analyze your opponents fighting style and use their predictability to your advantage.

The Advanced How to Play - Created by Wak. Alright, so you have the confidence and the aggression to be a professional smasher but what about the skill? You need skill before you get ahead of yourself and claim to be expert level. Check out these video guides on how to perform advanced techniques. Visual learning is always a good way to get good at something.

The 7 Habits of a Professional Smasher - Created by LunInSpectra. So now you are a professional smasher. Congratulations! Time to review what kind of habits you should be following now. Most of these things are stuff you do on impulse but it is always nice to look over what you need to be doing just to make sure you are not tripping up somewhere.

The SSBM Metagame - Created by Delphiki. Nothing to look forward to in the first post. If you read on though, you learn more about the metagame. This is an in-depth look on being professional.

Observation - Made by Mookierah, this is a guide to observation. After all, without proper concentration, how can you better your game? It might not sound that important but you should at least give it a look because it really is useful information.

Collection of (mostly) Severly Outdated Character Guides - Just what it says it is. These are guides on how to use specific characters in Melee but they are mostly outdated and less useful than they should be. It is worth a look if you are a complete newbie though. It won't cover much on advanced techniques though.

Collection of Updated Character Guides - Along with my unlockables guide, I also took the liberty of constructing an updated character guide links thread. Now along with the outdated character guides, you have a collection of updated ones. These guides will have information about advanced techniques and I strongly urge you look at them if you want to get better at Melee with particular characters.

"We <3 Magus420" Thread Compilation

We <3 Magus420: Because he is amazing

[/CENTER]

Thanks to Witchking_of_Angmar for organizing this

DI, ASDI, SDI, CC, etc.

A Post on ASDI/SDI
More DI stuff
Even More
Even More
Even More
Even More
Interesting information about DI
Double-Stick DI
Crouch Cancel and how it works

Teching

A Post on Double-Stick Teching
More stuff about teching
Even more stuff about teching
Miscellaneous

Falcon's battlefield auto sweetspot
Apparently, Fox can do it as well
Epic Ganon combo

Frame Data and Move Properties

A Post about how Auto-Canceling works and some frame data for Ganon's aerials
Just Basic info about priority
Stuff about powershields
Fair'ing with Sheik/Doc/most characters does NOT help recovery distance
"
Peach chaingrab %'s and detailed information
Jump startup frames
Jab reset (thunder’s combo) %'s etc.
How "stale" moves in Melee works
Dashing and grabbing at the exact same time
Powershield information
More PS info
Detailed Techs and Getups frames
Throws frame data

Tips & Tricks

Magus on pivoting
Teching after getting hit during an l-cancel
Sheik ***** Falcon
Really hard
Really really hard
Wavedash pivot edgehog
Moonwalking
falcon nair combo on floaties
Shield DI
Chasing tech rolls

Drastic Improvement

The Four Aspects of Melee

Reading/studying is just as good as playing. I've watched pretty much every ken/mew2king/mango/drpp/azen/isai etc video out there. Everything I do with marth/fox/sheik is simply copied from them. This brings me to step 2.

STEP 2 - LEARN YOUR CHARACTER

Read the character discussion forums, look at the guides, watch the vids. Find out who the best players are of your chosen character and study their videos. But you have to know what to look for. When watching a vid play close attention to the following:
- what they do at the very start of the match
- what they do when their not attacking aka how they space/bait
- what they do at low % VERY IMPORTANT!!! 0-50% is the most dangerous time to attack your opponent because of lack of stun and being able to CC. See how they get those first few hits in, practice it. Find what works, abuse it.
- edge guards
- how they escape from combo's/D.I
- how they lose, YOU can learn from THEIR mistakes

STEP 3 - PRACTICE

The most important step. Once you have your info its time to put it into practice. CPU's are good training buddies, you just have to be smart about it. As mew2king once told me "play cpu's, if your smart you'll get good".

If you plan on using a techy character there are some tricks you can use. For example go to vs and set a cpu to lvl 1, set handicap to 1 for you and 9 to the cpu and damage ratio to 0.5. This will basically allow you to combo the cpu to about 400% before they even start to leave the ground from your attacks. This is very useful for aeriel heavy characters as you can practice your shffl games with them. e.g - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NXSizD1Tvs0

Also don't play against lvl 9's, they tend to have non-human reactions that can get you into bad habits. Instead play against lvl 7's or if your practising chain throws lvl 3's.

STEP 4 - COMMUNICATE

Can't find what your looking for, ask someone. Find out who the players in your area are and organise meet ups. Go to tourneys and DEMAND friendlies with better players, nothing beats first hand exp. Getting ***** by a combo? Ask if there's a way to avoid it.

More to come + character guides.

RANDOM DISCUSSIONS

Aussierob123 said:
I try against zac every time. Zac isn't a super human, he has a thought process too, it's just that everyone ****in jumps in and tries to hit him and he punishes. Watch it, I guarantee you almost every time zac gets a hit / combo / stock it's because we did something stupid or made a dumb decision. The most popular is trying to come down on him with an aerial when he's standing there. Why kind of a dumb idea is that. You would try and punch mike tyson in the face if he can see you coming, cuz he's just gnna step back and **** all over your face.

ZAKIDO said:
you guys make it pretty easy fo meh lol

rob - 99.9% of winning comes down to who makes less mistakes.. the other 0.1% is when you fall thru the stage on pokestadium lolololol

plus marths game relies almost entirely on reaction rather than pressure.

one thing to always remember is patience, never feel like your forced to attack. Always think about your possibilities and outcomes. check this - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5w3DyuhEQuQ notice how often I just sat back and charged needles or went to charge then popped my shield up.

Fox/Falco/Shiek all have a huge advantage over marth/falcon/jiggs/peach - they can chose to sit back and projectile spam. This forces a mindset into the opponent that they will have to eventually approach you otherwise they'll lose out on projectile damage. It can usually cause the opponent to panic and rush in as well, as Ben did a few times.

VIDEO FEEDBACK

Marth v Peach and some general tactics v peach/fox/falco

BEGINNER TACTICS
Control Yourself Before Your Opponent

Dekar289 said:
so you're playing someone worse than youyou're 3 stock down but you know you're gunna win since ur better, you can take control of the matchdo your usual **** that works against people worse than you (even if that's only computers lol)... you win
however when you play someone as good or better than you, you don't have complete control of the matchthis is where you have keep a cool head and NOT resort back to your very basics, eg for someone like jei it might be furiously wavedash back -> f-smash or going for d-tilt to fair spike, idk

it's easy to be confident when you're the one comboing the other guy, but when you're getting combo'd or pressured this is when it actually matters to be confidentyou have to be able to "attack the game when the puck isn't yours", so even when you feel like there's nothing you can do, you have to*1) not let your opponent see that that's what you're feeling and*2) find a way to put the pressure back onto them instead of just holding away and praying their combo will end without you dying. *Pay very close attention to every single hit and grab to look for patterns and an immediate escape and counterattack instead of reflecting on a 0-death grab combo with "i shouldn't have been grabbed" (although true) try thinking more along the lines of "i should have escaped that" escaping a combo AND immediately counterattacking with hits and pressure of your own is such a huge mental advantage, since next time they attempt to combo you they will be nervous about it, will probably change it up and perhaps even not go for the previous combo as much. in general they will be more nervous to approach you, which is a huge win

i see too many people approach matches with short, stupid plans
like they're fox vs a peach or marth, and they run away and laser every chance they get
then they get outplayed and camping rarely pays off and they're frustrated... so they become afraid to approach and rely on their fail camping even more (afraid to approach in melee? u lose)
also when they get hit once they instantly start holding away from the opponent (can be good) but continue to hold away until they can completely run away and get back to a completely neutral position. try counterattacking instead, crouch cancel or LOOK and see where you've been hit/thrown to. perhaps your opponent has made a mistake in their combo/attack that means you can get a grab or a hit back and do big damage of your own

also people have even smaller, even stupider plans, like "now i'm going to drill shine wavedash upsmash" or "now that they're at 100 i'm going to go for a grab"
you gotta always be adapting and reacting... to every single movement and hit

INTERMEDIATE TACTICS
Spacing and Stage Control

Lucien's Spacing Tutorial

Zero's Dash Dancing Guide

ADVANCED TACTICS
Baiting, Game Plans and Follow Ups
REMEMBER - Don't use these as gospel, rather as an example of how you can create your own strategies.

Lucien's Reading Tutorial

Zero's Platform Follow Up Guide

Conditioning:
marth is chainthrowing fox but after 2-3 grabs does a b-throw/f-throw on fox who expects a u-throw and doesnt tech so he eats a tipper
next time marth does it he just does a d-tilt expecting the tech or shield
marth doesnt expect the d-tilt to hit but the fox will panic and shield or roll and leave himself open to a regrab or wavedash-tipper.
this just gives marth greater control, not just within the game but mentally as well.

same situation can apply when marth does a b-throw near the edge and fox roll techs inwards
marth will keep doing it waiting for the straight get up tech and go for a tipper
if the fox doesnt tech at all then marth can just d-tilt him off the stage

also doing something like an u-throw against a floaty character and conditioning them to make them jump thinking that you will jump up and attack them, but ur just waiting for the jump and then you go in with whatever. I do it alot against peach where i u-throw and then just do a short hop waiting for peach to use her float. Then when she catches on she'll be forced to not jump and just eat bigger combo instead of losing her 2nd jump.

I was discussing a lot of things about shiek tactics with m2k and one that we both kept talking about was forcing your opponent to mess up ther techs.

How? Match starts, your shiek and you charge your needles, you either wait for them to jump then get them as ther landing OR wait for them to land and they usually shield expecting the needles so u go for a grab, then wait for the tech and throw out the needles. At this stage they could be up to 30% dmg if u got a hit or 2 when u grabbed them. You can choose to do it again or go to gay tactic 1.

This is when you retreat to the edge and start spamming your up-b stall. Opponent gets pissed. After about 20 seconds you get back on the stage and fight normal for a bit. If you think your going to lose your lead you go back to needle camping to get a decent lead, then head back to stalling. By now the opponent is getting frustrated. They start to feel that they need to capitalise on every hit they get. So they start to feel nervous and jittery and miss occasional techs. This is when you start going for shield grabs as they will more than likely start messing up ther l-cancels etc.

I'm not saying you should use this. Rather you should plan your strategies beforehand. Always have a plan and a backup.

CaLibUr_1337 · Dec 1, 2011

I found step 3 to be the most useful to me lol

xXArrowXx · Dec 1, 2011

oh no. the secret is out.

Aussierob123 · Dec 1, 2011

This is actually a really good guide. I approve. Now that uni is done I'm down for some practice, especially on weekdays if anyone is free.

J-Birds · Dec 1, 2011

are you still in america? ill play at some point

- how to escape from combo's/D.I
that is what i need big timesss

Rad · Dec 1, 2011

Once you learn how to learn you play people better than you until you get good or you don't

If you don't then you ****ed up learning how to learn

imo

Aussierob123 · Dec 1, 2011

I get back on the tenth.

Splice · Dec 1, 2011

wow

Im better than zac already

Pantsmann · Dec 1, 2011

how to DI? down and away while in combos, up and whatever direction puts you towards the corner for survival. melee DI in a nutshell. except against marth, he has dumb di stuff =\

Darkwing SykeDuk · Dec 1, 2011

if marth is on the ground and combo'ing you with tilts - hold down
if in the air - hold away from marth
if grabbed - **** brix

If anyone has any random strats/trix etc they use don't be afraid to post them. It might jolt the minds of a few others or could be discussed and improved upon.

Dekar289 · Dec 1, 2011

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ByYN_W-XgRc

Aussierob123 · Dec 1, 2011

All the good people should contribute so the worse players get better. So post something dekar.

I'm not good but I know this will help some people. It seems like almost half of my grabs come from people who drop through the top platform with a aerial. Don't do that! Half the time I'm nowhere near them and they aerial still.

People need to stop assuming their opponent is stupid. That's a srs comment too, we rely too much on people walking into our **** than we do actually making good decisions.

Pantsmann · Dec 1, 2011

Aussierob123 said:
People need to stop assuming their opponent is stupid. That's a srs comment too, we rely too much on people walking into our **** than we do actually making good decisions.

this is so true. about 90% of the stuff i do only works because people walk into it. i play with cal and jbirds all the time and they're like "wtf, how does that work?" and the answer is "because you let it >_>".

you don't have to go to your opponent if you don't want to. even if you're down a stock you can just camp it out because chances are your opponent is playing melee because they have no patience so there's no way they're going to sit on the other side of the stage for 7 minutes.

ololololol i'm not good and there's so much i want to say. most of which i don't even pay attention to myself in matches =\ i think imma make a youtube series

Darkwing SykeDuk · Dec 1, 2011

agreed

just cause I can hit sheiks u-smash like 95% of the time doesn't mean you will too.. same as dashing across the screen and dash-cancel f-smashing with marth. That sort of **** only comes with exp/luck.

asianaussie · Dec 1, 2011

good guide

i think of it as a knowledge/techskill/experience thing, can't have applicable techskill without knowledge, can't have applicable experience without some level of techskill, etc

Dekar289 · Dec 1, 2011

"the good way"
as opposed to the performance enhancing drugs way

xXArrowXx · Dec 1, 2011

performance enhancing bananas are still legal i assume

J-Birds · Dec 1, 2011

sigh camping

the necessary evil

Dekar289 · Dec 1, 2011

nonono
if you approach and get smashed, it's because you approached too predictably/stupidly
approach smarter
remember that approach doesn't necessarily mean run up to them and nair shine blah blah
even just dash dancing just outside their range to force a move is a good approach

camping will only amplify the mistakes made when you finally do approach
force your opponent to make the mistake

like coach orion says, "don't be careless but don't be too careful either"

Darkwing SykeDuk · Dec 1, 2011

i think i mentioned dash dancing/forcing a move/bait at some point

idk i dun rly remember wut i said, was just watching and hoping stuff would pop into my head lol

Dekar289 · Dec 2, 2011

coach orion - "you cannot be afraid to lose"

i see too many people approach matches with short, stupid plans
like they're fox vs a peach or marth, and they run away and laser every chance they get
then they get outplayed and camping rarely pays off and they're frustrated... so they become afraid to approach and rely on their fail camping even more (afraid to approach in melee? u lose)
also when they get hit once they instantly start holding away from the opponent (can be good) but continue to hold away until they can completely run away and get back to a completely neutral position. try counterattacking instead, crouch cancel or LOOK and see where you've been hit/thrown to. perhaps your opponent has made a mistake in their combo/attack that means you can get a grab or a hit back and do big damage of your own
husband - "something a lot of people don't realize is that sometimes your best opportunity comes, when you take a hit blah blah blah send the opponent flying very far" something along those lines haha

also people have even smaller, even stupider plans, like "now i'm going to drill shine wavedash upsmash" or "now that they're at 100 i'm going to go for a grab"
you gotta always be adapting and reacting... to every single movement and hit

plenty more coach orion goodness to come

Dekar289 · Dec 2, 2011

"It's easy to be confident when you have control of the puck. It's very, very difficult to keep that confidence when you gotta take whatever strange bounces life throws your way."
so you're playing someone worse than you
you're 3 stock down but you know you're gunna win since ur better, you can take control of the match
do your usual **** that works against people worse than you (even if that's only computers lol)... you win

however when you play someone as good or better than you, you don't have complete control of the match
this is where you have keep a cool head and NOT resort back to your very basics, eg for someone like jei it might be furiously wavedash back -> f-smash or going for d-tilt to fair spike, idk

hmm this section is actually quite thin

"have control of the puck"
let's look at this on a more in-game basis
it's easy to be confident when you're the one comboing the other guy, but when you're getting combo'd or pressured this is when it actually matters to be confident
you have to be able to "attack the game when the puck isn't yours", so even when you feel like there's nothing you can do, you have to 1) not let your opponent see that that's what you're feeling and 2) find a way to put the pressure back onto them
instead of just holding away and praying their combo will end without you dying, pay very close attention to every single hit and grab to look for patterns and an immediate escape and counterattack
instead of reflecting on a 0-death grab combo with "i shouldn't have been grabbed" (although true) try thinking more along the lines of "i should have escaped that"
escaping a combo AND immediately counterattacking with hits and pressure of your own is such a huge mental advantage, since next time they attempt to combo you they will be nervous about it, will probably change it up and perhaps even not go for the previous combo as much. in general they will be more nervous to approach you, which is a huge win

i'm too philosophical, for a good coach that will actually make you better at melee talk to shaz

Darkwing SykeDuk · Dec 2, 2011

this thread is going to be pretty messy for a while..

ALSO realy have to emphasize that you all watch Lucien's spacing and reading tutes. They will really help you understand some of the spacing/zoning guides coming soon.

cpahanso · Dec 2, 2011

I'm definitely not good... In fact I'm rather terrible... and listening to advice will probably make you worse >_> So if you don't want to read this I don't blame you...
But... what I find people stuff up the most is learning their opponent and adapting. There is no single strategy or pattern that is just going to always work, and that's what tonnes of people don't get. You should always think about what you do, rather than just do what you do by habit that's worked in the past. Decent players, even some mediocre players, will just punish you for it. Be smart with your approaches, mix it up, try and tech chase or anticipate, if it doesn't work, try and figure out why and what might happen next time. Camping can be a good idea, but don't rely on it constantly, esp. if it puts you in a bad position (I wouldn't recommend ledge or low-lying platform camping against marth much...). Also, if you happen to start with a seemingly terrible stage for your matchup, don't get into the mindset of "oh sh*t what a bad stage im going to lose now", instead, before the match even starts, start thinking about what you're going to do to prevent that from happening. Look for how the stage could be bad for your OPPONENT.

Anyway... hopefully that didn't just completely ruin your smash life...

Darkwing SykeDuk · Dec 2, 2011

"There is no single strategy or pattern that is just going to always work, and that's what tonnes of people don't get. You should always think about what you do, rather than just do what you do by habit that's worked in the past. "

I'll be going more in depth with this in a later vid

ZodiakLucien · Dec 2, 2011

I'm really glad you liked my tutorial videos, even though I absolutely hate them haha. I am actually trying to get a stream going soon where I show different aspects of the game and answer peoples questions. Like one day stream about how to deal with falco lasers, another day on a healthy mindset, etc. I don't know what the demand will be or how popular is will get but its something I want to do. I don't have time to practice melee anymore but I want to stay in touch with the community.

Darkwing SykeDuk · Dec 2, 2011

wanna do a collab...

Dekar289 · Dec 2, 2011

don't have time to practise... do you have time to enter tournaments? or do you not compete unless you practise?

Splice · Dec 2, 2011

ZodiakLucien said:
. Like one day stream about how to deal with falco lasers, .

I beg you not to do this haha

ZodiakLucien · Dec 2, 2011

ZAKIDO said:
wanna do a collab...

I want to do this on my own, I dont know how you would even collab anyway. Its just something I want to be able to do easily on my free time.

Dekar289 said:
don't have time to practise... do you have time to enter tournaments? or do you not compete unless you practise?

Technically I do have free time to enter tournaments, but that would use up a majority of my freetime to do so. Also since I can not really practice anymore I don't really see the point. I am just too busy now and so are all my practice partners.

The only things holding me back right now is I dont have the right capture card to stream. The problem with written tutorials is sadly people have to read it, people dont like to really read these days. Which is one of the reasons why I think my tutorial was as popular as it was, even though it's low quality. There are plenty of threads of people giving people advice on how to get better, there are just very little videos of people illustrating or discussing the concepts. Which is something I want to help with.

Violence · Dec 2, 2011

Saw a random Lucien post, decided to click it.

ZodiakLucien said:
I'm really glad you liked my tutorial videos, even though I absolutely hate them haha. I am actually trying to get a stream going soon where I show different aspects of the game and answer peoples questions. Like one day stream about how to deal with falco lasers, another day on a healthy mindset, etc. I don't know what the demand will be or how popular is will get but its something I want to do. I don't have time to practice melee anymore but I want to stay in touch with the community.

I am actually trying to get a stream going soon where I show different aspects of the game and answer peoples questions. Like one day stream about how to deal with falco lasers, another day on a healthy mindset, etc. I don't know what the demand will be or how popular is will get but its something I want to do.

Like one day stream about how to deal with falco lasers, another day on a healthy mindset, etc.

how to deal with falco lasers

THIIIIIIIIIIISSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS

I'm drowning in lasers in Falco land, saaave me Lucien

ZodiakLucien · Dec 2, 2011

you are not the only one eric. IMO falco lasers is the biggest hurdle in melee for players to learn how to deal with. Most players never learn how to.

Violence · Dec 2, 2011

I have had games where people get cc dsmashed->edgeguard and get frustrated with playing against me, so they sh laser outside of all my options.

You're telling me there's a way around this?

ZodiakLucien · Dec 2, 2011

Yes, short answer is you dont have to hit him to punish his lasers. Gaining position to give yourself options should be the goal. The biggest mistake players do is they get caught in a bad spot and feel like they are stuck. Obviously theres a lot more to it then that. If all goes well I get a test stream going this weekend.

Violence · Dec 2, 2011

I will watch the **** out of that. Send me a pm when you're going to do it, I'll be sitting in front of my comp working all weekend.

Aussierob123 · Dec 2, 2011

I always thought the answer was to yank the controller out of the cube and QQ out of the room.

And what are you talking about Lucien, after watching your spacing vids and then analyzing haxs videos it pretty much completely changed my understanding of the sheik matchup.

Robsta · Dec 3, 2011

Don't get to caught up on that practicing against CPU business

I used to practice against level 1,3 and 4 CPUs everyday for at least an hour when I first started

Only bad habits and useless tech skill came from it

Attila_ · Dec 3, 2011

I actually really liked those videos.

Lucien is a mad dog.

They vocalized a lot of things that I had already introduced into my brawl game very deliberately.

Applying it to melee on the other hand... Probs need to dash dance first lol

Redact · Dec 3, 2011

Robsta said:
Don't get to caught up on that practicing against CPU business

I used to practice against level 1,3 and 4 CPUs everyday for at least an hour when I first started

Only bad habits and useless tech skill came from it

So m2k endorses cpu practice, but robsta doesnt

hmm....

Karnu · Dec 3, 2011

Nice..............

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