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Nayru's Oracle: The Official Zelda Matchup Thread! Currently Discussing: Peach
- Thread starter Alacion
- Start date
derp Falco is lite and we can lolreflector lasers so mu is +2
AlMoStLeGeNdArY
Smash Hero
Falco has a good jab however, it's still a jab and it's not a move that's MU defining. If you're spacing properly his jab becomes ineffective. The only time his jab beats your moves are when you're extremely close to him other wise the move isn't a problem. IF you caught in the jab you can SDI and maybe (i'm not certain on this) land a LK.
Of course no one considers the MU a -2, when everyone is crying about falco's jab. I don't believe Falco's jab is a problem he does have the tools of a character that I consider to be an extremely poor character like a Snake or a MK. He can camp you pretty effectively which is why I put it at a -2. Zelda can take advantage of some his weakness (his recovery & that fact that he's a FF).
So you have range he out zones so you he forces you to approach. One of Falco's best tools for racking damage isn't as effective against Zelda he can still dthrow tech chase you and stuff. So you gotta get in be wary of his grab stay out of his jab range and then what does he have? Ftilt ? Dtilt? Please his move set on the ground isn't anything special when compared to a character like snake. None of his moves really threaten me. His aerials aren't much better Bair is his best followed by nair and uair. So you don't want to be above him but he also doesn't want to be below you. There's also dair but that's not the type of thing I'm talking about with aerials (think Marth's Fair or DK's bair).
So to sum it up the only spot I feel as though Falco has the advantage is when it comes to camping Zelda. He can force her to approach however, when you do approach you gotta be aware not to be in his jab range. At low percentages both can rack damage on the other pretty well, Neither character wants to be above the other character. Zelda obviously kills sooner and has potential for some gimps because of dsmash. Falco has usmash fsmash and bair.
I think this is the only board on SWF that believes a jab to be an important feature an a MU. Just out curiosity do we complain about Ike's, Snake's, Sheik's, Squirttle's and ZSS's jab.
Fuujin
Smash Champion
1PokeMastr
Smash Champion
- Joined
- Dec 10, 2009
- Messages
- 2,251
Ugh. This is what I wake up to ? A Zelda main posting on our boards for one of us to explain how punishable Falco is if we know ?
They don't even say how to SDi it.. 'Just SDi, I'm not Certain'.
If you SDi behind Falco, and land behind him, you have a 14 frame Advantage, If you SDi up and above Falco, you have pretty much a 20 frame advantage when you have godlike SDi reaction timing because we all end our Jabs so we don't get punished.
Anyway, SDi up, Nair/ Fair/ Dair/ Nayru's Love. It's like.. Get out of hear you jabber! Hyaahh~
Falco's Jab is no where near a safe option as everyone thinks.
Also.. Falco DOES want you above us, Falco never wants to be above you because all we have is a Dair/ Nair to cover us below, unless we land a Bair.
We're actually better off not doing the Multi hit Jab to be honest. Double Jab + Grab or Repeat works amazing, even though it can be shield grabbed/ Usmash Oos from certain people, or Up B Oos/ Out of hit by Marth. Literally. If we Jab him once, all he has to do is Up B when we jab.
Anyway.
Our best Aerials are Dair/ Bair since they have amazing priority.
Our F-Tilt has a different purpose, it's our spacing tool, it's safe on Block, does 9% and is fairly quick.
We can kill you with.. Usmash, Bair, Fsmash, Dsmash, Uair and Spike you with Dair.
Our U-Tilt will kill you around.. 150%.
And at 0%, Falco should most likely do Jab -> Grab or Double Jab -> Grab..
We can chain grab you. We get you from 0 - 43% + Follow up.
Anyway, Tuh Tah~
They don't even say how to SDi it.. 'Just SDi, I'm not Certain'.
If you SDi behind Falco, and land behind him, you have a 14 frame Advantage, If you SDi up and above Falco, you have pretty much a 20 frame advantage when you have godlike SDi reaction timing because we all end our Jabs so we don't get punished.
Anyway, SDi up, Nair/ Fair/ Dair/ Nayru's Love. It's like.. Get out of hear you jabber! Hyaahh~
Falco's Jab is no where near a safe option as everyone thinks.
Also.. Falco DOES want you above us, Falco never wants to be above you because all we have is a Dair/ Nair to cover us below, unless we land a Bair.
We're actually better off not doing the Multi hit Jab to be honest. Double Jab + Grab or Repeat works amazing, even though it can be shield grabbed/ Usmash Oos from certain people, or Up B Oos/ Out of hit by Marth. Literally. If we Jab him once, all he has to do is Up B when we jab.
Anyway.
Our best Aerials are Dair/ Bair since they have amazing priority.
Our F-Tilt has a different purpose, it's our spacing tool, it's safe on Block, does 9% and is fairly quick.
We can kill you with.. Usmash, Bair, Fsmash, Dsmash, Uair and Spike you with Dair.
Our U-Tilt will kill you around.. 150%.
And at 0%, Falco should most likely do Jab -> Grab or Double Jab -> Grab..
We can chain grab you. We get you from 0 - 43% + Follow up.
Anyway, Tuh Tah~
Fuujin
Smash Champion
Poke gtfo you contributed nothing with that mess of a post.
AlMoStLeGeNdArY
Smash Hero
Fuujin im going to report you ever time I see you post a gif. Im sick of it hopefully you get banned again. If you have a problem with something in my post the address what you have a problem with. Instead of posting a gif. YOu're not cool and you're not funny so grow up with that immature non sense kid.
1PokeMastr
Smash Champion
- Joined
- Dec 10, 2009
- Messages
- 2,251
He's posting his reactions. Nothing wrong with that.
And about Falco's Multi Hit jab, to give you an Idea on how unsafe it is.
Donkey Kong can Side B us if he SDi's up.
And about Falco's Multi Hit jab, to give you an Idea on how unsafe it is.
Donkey Kong can Side B us if he SDi's up.
AlMoStLeGeNdArY
Smash Hero
I just wasn't sure if Zelda could land a LK if she SDI'd the jab. But apparently around these parts Falco's jab is the black plague.
Fuujin
Smash Champion
So wait when I say Falco's jab you guys think I'm talking about his full jab?
Like the whole spinning around rapid jab?
........Seriously?
Like the whole spinning around rapid jab?
........Seriously?
AlMoStLeGeNdArY
Smash Hero
So wait when I say Falco's jab you guys think I'm talking about his full jab?
Like the whole spinning around rapid jab?
........Seriously?
No, it doesn't matter which jab you're talking about.
Have you ever actually went into training mode and tested Falco's jab vs Zelda's moves.
Posting gifs isn't against the rules though. Not gonna lie, some of those gifs are funny.
Drama belongs in The Drama Thread guys.
1Poke thanks for the insight! Appreciate it :D
AlMoStLeGeNdArY
Smash Hero
He's more or less trolling with the gifs. Which is against the rolls. This is the MU discussion thread. Not Fuujin gets to post gifs whenever you say something he doesn't agree with. If we really want to discuss MU's properly then him posting a gif is very inappropriate and should be reported immediately. Also I'm just tired of it in general TBH it may not be against the rules however, it's annoying and he's clearly trolling with the gifs. SO whenever I see them Im just going to report it and let a mod decide what to do with it and hopefully after enough times something happens.
*dead *
omg legendary! falco's jab is an absolute nightmare! to put it into perspective... it's almost as ranged as zelda's fsmash. imagine if, say, zelda's fsmash was 2 frames long >__>... can you see what everyone is saying? it stuffs a lot of her spacing on the ground where she competes. and it's not that she isn't fast on the ground, it's that his jab covers such excellent distance in the time it would take zelda to cover that distance in, say, 14+ frames... which is a massive gap. his jab is a good tool in the mu.
you can punish his jab cancels but imo the best thing to do is to just get out of there and sdi away. just expect that he will jab you up close in the way you would expect ike to jab you and you'll escape it easily with anticipation.
also fujji posting the gif i don't consider to be trolling in this instance - he's made the effort of quoting you and emphasising the stuff he disagrees with.
you can punish his jab cancels but imo the best thing to do is to just get out of there and sdi away. just expect that he will jab you up close in the way you would expect ike to jab you and you'll escape it easily with anticipation.
also fujji posting the gif i don't consider to be trolling in this instance - he's made the effort of quoting you and emphasising the stuff he disagrees with.
AlMoStLeGeNdArY
Smash Hero
Go into training modes and test the ranges. Then time falco to do his jab when you're going to fsmash. Spaced properly Zelda's fsmash will always win. I won't talk about jab no more nor will I bring this up againshowever, I bold something you said that I don't agree with and I talked about it. I didn't post an obnoxious picture so yeah he was trolling. So expect a lot more reports from me.
@Courier am I not allowed to change my mind on things? Or must I always have the same opinions that I had a year ago? Let me bring up some things that change as the life of this game has evolved well MK is finally banned and 85% of marth's mU isn't 6-4 anymore. As well as the Marth vs Snake MU changing from 6-4 Snake to 6-4 Marth. Time and people opinions change man....don't be a tool.....too late.
1PokeMastr
Smash Champion
- Joined
- Dec 10, 2009
- Messages
- 2,251
Oh, Um, Guys. If we end our CG early with a Dar, and you land on stage in the Non - Bounce State.
You can Down Smash us. You have a 7 frame advantage over us when we do that.
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=302439
Our section On Zelda.
You can Down Smash us. You have a 7 frame advantage over us when we do that.
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=302439
Our section On Zelda.
Interesting info that one of the Dsmash.
Thanks for your contributions, I learned new things today. :D
Fuujin
Smash Champion
Lol looks like somebody went to Forum Support.
100% agreeing with Kataefi. Fuujin still did something helpful with his post.
Helpful posts =/= Spam, Twinkie.
Helpful posts =/= Spam, Twinkie.
Nope, though a few people found the 'report post' button.
This is not an image spam thread, keep it out of here.
And drop the arguing. Get back to the matchup discussion.
AlMoStLeGeNdArY
Smash Hero
Seems as though Fuujin immaturity got the better of him. *oh well* Anyways hopefully we can get back on topic now that the distraction has been dealt with.
Fuujin was by far one of the best contributors to the Zelda boards. I'm really disappointed that you guys didn't consider the fact that we *need* him for things such as this matchup thread and the guide.
With that said, I don't feel like discussing matchups anymore. Somebody create a new thread and manage it for me.
With that said, I don't feel like discussing matchups anymore. Somebody create a new thread and manage it for me.
*courier rage quit*
tbh though the ban was unnessesary, and now that I've found the report button, I guess I'll be reporting any trollish posts from a certain someone now. :V
tbh though the ban was unnessesary, and now that I've found the report button, I guess I'll be reporting any trollish posts from a certain someone now. :V
Not really rage quit but the fact that we've lost our (arguably) biggest contributor and are left with people like AL.... honestly the thought of it scares me and I don't want to deal with it.
Alan I think your posts are good. But with one less contributor (that makes just Aero and you left) there is no hope left.
I mean when somebody has to tell you to literally go to Forum Support and have your account banned, you *know* you are doing something severely wrong.
I mean when somebody has to tell you to literally go to Forum Support and have your account banned, you *know* you are doing something severely wrong.
Australia defs should make a tier list.
Tink would be a few spots higher than he currently is on it imo.
And Olimar.
We don't really use MK much, but on that note, after reading AL's opinion on an "australian tier list", I'm quite disappointed.
I guess I would agree entirely with Marc.
Tink would be a few spots higher than he currently is on it imo.
And Olimar.
We don't really use MK much, but on that note, after reading AL's opinion on an "australian tier list", I'm quite disappointed.
I guess I would agree entirely with Marc.
#HBC | Scary
Hype Incarnate
Alright, I'm currently making a compendium of all the MUs since I honestly haven't contributed much. Barring any setbacks, I'm hoping that I can have it done by the end of the week or maybe two weeks.
It'll basically be what I think of each MU with a breakdown on moves and stuff. The thing is, I really won't know what to do when it comes to posting it because it'll obviously be huge.
I honestly just feel bad I haven't contributed too much to Zelda at all so I am going to do my best to give back. I'm almost done with my MK writeup (it took around an hour or two) and I'll be doing it for everyone. Something to look forward to
I really liked how this thread had been going but again, I feel bad for not being there for contribution even though you guys still consider me as a top Zelda so I just feel I need to do something big that's all.
It'll basically be what I think of each MU with a breakdown on moves and stuff. The thing is, I really won't know what to do when it comes to posting it because it'll obviously be huge.
I honestly just feel bad I haven't contributed too much to Zelda at all so I am going to do my best to give back. I'm almost done with my MK writeup (it took around an hour or two) and I'll be doing it for everyone. Something to look forward to
I really liked how this thread had been going but again, I feel bad for not being there for contribution even though you guys still consider me as a top Zelda so I just feel I need to do something big that's all.
Hm just felt like saying... ROB is actually not that bad, haha. ROB is one of the bigger threats in my area (consistently placing top 3) and I was extremely close to winning a MM against the guy who placed second last night!
I went Peach the first game and was obliterated. Zelda was so much easier and the MM would have been mine if I didn't accidentally use Din's Fire off stage
I did not know that Fsmash is a legit counter to gyro, lol. Spotdodges work so well... just predicting when projectiles will be spammed really helps keep Zelda in the game. Campy ROB isn't too bad either... since his projectiles have to be precise it's easier to predict. My Zelda really struggled getting back on stage though.
Also ROB is broken... so many sweetspotted dairs but he still lived!
He didn't want his own wins recorded for whatever reason, but I do have the two games recorded that I won on somebody's Wii but everybody is so swamped right now I'm not sure when any vids will be uploaded.
@above Gooooood **** Ed! Looking forward to it <3
I went Peach the first game and was obliterated. Zelda was so much easier and the MM would have been mine if I didn't accidentally use Din's Fire off stage
I did not know that Fsmash is a legit counter to gyro, lol. Spotdodges work so well... just predicting when projectiles will be spammed really helps keep Zelda in the game. Campy ROB isn't too bad either... since his projectiles have to be precise it's easier to predict. My Zelda really struggled getting back on stage though.
Also ROB is broken... so many sweetspotted dairs but he still lived!
He didn't want his own wins recorded for whatever reason, but I do have the two games recorded that I won on somebody's Wii but everybody is so swamped right now I'm not sure when any vids will be uploaded.
@above Gooooood **** Ed! Looking forward to it <3
AlMoStLeGeNdArY
Smash Hero
He wasn't even close to the best contributor this board has. I'm sorry that you feel as though he was. He's a tourney Zelda player and that's cool and all however, when people are discussing thinggs such as MU there's really no need for him to post random gifs. That is in no way shape or for a contribution to anything.
I also just PM'd Kataefi for control over this thread. So hopefully he gives it to me.
To each his own, and I never had a problem with those gifs. Fuujin has contributed way more than most other Zeldas.
I am still the "thread controller" and I think I should have a say in who manages this thread. It should definitely not be you.
I am still the "thread controller" and I think I should have a say in who manages this thread. It should definitely not be you.
AlMoStLeGeNdArY
Smash Hero
You're right different strokes for different folks. You can say what you want about Fuujin however, I respectable disagree with you. Whether you see where I'm coming from or not is irrelevant. Because like you said to each his own. Also if you're giving up on yet another thread it's pointless for you to attempt to dictate who it should go to.
Okay fine. I still want to maintain this thread for the good of the Zelda boards. I'll be totally honest, better me than you. Multiple people have set you to ignore already. Please understand why.
AlMoStLeGeNdArY
Smash Hero
Ah, man people have me on ignore....let me go end it all right now........
-4.
Zelda simply can't catch up to a campy Falco, and his jab is (universally) an amazing defensive tool.
I think Sheik players should use jab more imo, since it's just as good; if not better.
Not that this is the Sheik boards but...
Zelda simply can't catch up to a campy Falco, and his jab is (universally) an amazing defensive tool.
I think Sheik players should use jab more imo, since it's just as good; if not better.
Not that this is the Sheik boards but...