Britches and Hose Mafia - Game Over!

Asdioh · Dec 10, 2011

unvote for now, adum was at L-1.

Trying to think about this from different perspectives.

We already know Adum is a tracker of some sort, yes?
Why would scumAdum track townSwiss? What does he have to gain from that? If he sees Swiss as some sort of threat, he would rather track others in the hopes of finding a cop or doctor, and nightkill Swiss when he gets the chance. It wouldn't matter what role Swiss has, as he'll just be nightkilled anyway.

Why would townAdum track Swiss? I'll leave that up to him to answer, I guess.

Another thing we haven't talked much about: the combat medic, and what it means. Combat medic is a powerful role. It's more powerful than doctor by itself, and more powerful than vig by itself. However, it's significantly weaker than vig+doctor. Why would there be a combat medic instead of giving out two serparate PRs? Hypothetical answer: because town already has powerful roles:
-roleblocker
-tracker
-gunsmith
-census taker (again, very powerful role)

Setupwise (as in, not looking at play), it makes sense for Swiss to be the mafia roleblocker, but then there's the problem of "who roleblocked swords?"

._.

Kantrip · Dec 11, 2011

@July: Yes my results contained my target's name.

I forget where my vote is, but if it's not on Swiss:

Vote: Swiss

July, you can agree with this lynch, right? It covers the most of the things we need to clear up so we aren't in this same mess toMorrow.

Swiss · Dec 11, 2011

The incessant back and forth....

So, if you're saying I'm scum - you're saying scum have two RB'ers?

Kantrip · Dec 11, 2011

I'm willing to consider it, but it's unlikely. Could be adum's your partner. Or his results were messed with. Or scum has a role like Asdioh is suggesting.

Sokr · Dec 11, 2011

Or Swiss is indy and Asdioh and John are scum partners....

Swiss · Dec 11, 2011

adumbrodeus · Dec 11, 2011

Swiss said:
The incessant back and forth....

So, if you're saying I'm scum - you're saying scum have two RB'ers?

Look, if you flip mafia, two things are obvious to me.

1. I'm an idiot and need to stop playing this game.

2. Somebody else on your team is the roleblocker.

It's not like we have any realistic way to verify that it was you personally who did a roleblock and not your scumbuddy.

Swiss · Dec 11, 2011

You just admitted you know I'm not scum.

YEAH LETS LYNCH ME ANYWAY. DEFFO INDIE.

INDIE RB'ER WHO ISN'T PLAYING SURVIVALISTIC.

YEAH.

Asdioh · Dec 11, 2011

Sokr said:
Or Swiss is indy and Asdioh and John are scum partners....

Swiss said:

Whatever this gif is, I'm sure it's an appropriate reaction to that post. Not only is it insane to think me and John could be partners, but there really is nothing survivalistic about Swiss' play. I guarantee he would have been begging for doc protections far more than he has if he were indy.

Adum, answer my question up above. I already said why it makes little sense for scumAdum to track townSwiss, so can you tell me your townAdum reasoning for tracking Swiss night 1?

Gova · Dec 11, 2011

1. adumbrodeus (3) Swiss, July, John2k4
2. John2k4 ()
4. Sokr ()
5. Kantrip ()
8. Swiss (3) adumbrodeus, Sokr, Kantrip
10. Felipe_9595 ()
11. July ()
12. Asdioh (1) Felipe

Not voting - Asdioh

With 8 playing, it takes 5 to lynch!

Deadline is December 13th at 11:59 PM CST (GMT-6).

adumbrodeus · Dec 11, 2011

Swiss said:
You just admitted you know I'm not scum.

YEAH LETS LYNCH ME ANYWAY. DEFFO INDIE.

INDIE RB'ER WHO ISN'T PLAYING SURVIVALISTIC.

YEAH.

Yea it's not like I haven't been saying that you're obv indy for the last... 5 years.

adumbrodeus · Dec 11, 2011

Asdioh said:
Adum, answer my question up above. I already said why it makes little sense for scumAdum to track townSwiss, so can you tell me your townAdum reasoning for tracking Swiss night 1?

Primarily because I couldn't get a read on him period, I was hoping that his night actions would give me some insight into his role.

adumbrodeus · Dec 11, 2011

EBWOP: his alignment

Also, john, i know you're reading. comments

Asdioh · Dec 11, 2011

>scumslips everywhere

but I want to believe you're town, adum :|

adumbrodeus · Dec 11, 2011

Well it's obviously both, but role was a means to the end of determining alignment not the objective.

And I thought I managed to do that, turns out I was wrong on both counts

Asdioh · Dec 11, 2011

There's really not much left to discuss, is there? We just need to lynch one of you, and hope that John somehow dies during the Night because he's clearly scum and nobody will listen to me.

adumbrodeus · Dec 11, 2011

Just ask yourself asdioh, do you think that in a game with partial flips there would EVER be two town roleblockers? Would we have ever even considered it if it wasn't swiss claiming it? Do you see any realistic buffer for the double lynches that would happen?

You know this already, make the right choice.

Swiss · Dec 11, 2011

adumbrodeus said:
You know this already, make the right choice.

You sound like a bad politician

adumbrodeus · Dec 11, 2011

Swiss said:
You sound like a bad politician

So you have nothing better to then simply make snide remarks. You have yet to answer how this setup could be balanced with 2 town roleblockers given the claims we have.

Do you honestly expect us to believe that pretty much anyone who is not you could've possibly convinced town to accept this? If not, this setup has to be balanced against two nearly automatic town lynches in a row.

Yes, you have plenty of time to be snide, but not a moment to plug the glaring inconsistency in your argument.

Swiss · Dec 11, 2011

How about we wait until I don't almost faint trying to watch a film because my heads so ****ed.

Yeah. Ill.

Johns.

Asdioh · Dec 11, 2011

Neither of you crumbed your roles on Day 1, right?

adumbrodeus · Dec 11, 2011

No, I didn't crumb it till d2

Asdioh · Dec 11, 2011

Gova said:
1. adumbrodeus (3) Swiss, July, John2k4
2. John2k4 ()
4. Sokr ()
5. Kantrip ()
8. Swiss (3) adumbrodeus, Sokr, Kantrip
10. Felipe_9595 ()
11. July ()
12. Asdioh (1) Felipe

Not voting - Asdioh

With 8 playing, it takes 5 to lynch!

Deadline is December 13th at 11:59 PM CST (GMT-6).

Look how gross the Adum wagon currently is compared to the Swiss wagon.
Look at Felipe (and me) holding the fate of two worlds in our hands.
Look at how completely tired I am of reading and rereading and rereading.

I also was just reading July's posts and noticed how she seems to think I'm scum if Adum flips town, whereas mechanics point to me being scum if Swiss flips town. That would worry me

if I were scum.

Swiss, are you sure you're not actually scum that ****ed up their claim but then breathed a sigh of relief when you saw that it was me counterclaiming you, because you thought you would be able to play to my naievete?

Asdioh · Dec 11, 2011

adumbrodeus said:
I take it back, RR needs to die. ASAP.

There's only one thing that would make me believe he's town at this point, and i strongly suspect it isn't the case.

what was this btw?

Asdioh · Dec 11, 2011

I give up. I wanted to say that Adum and Swiss are both town, and then try to convince people to lynch John because he reads scum so strongly to me.

But then, if Adum and Swiss are both town, then that means the following people didn't kill Soupamario: Adum, John, Sokr, Swiss, Asdioh, July (and Red Ruy). This is because john and RR were roleblocked, July was tracked, and Sokr is obviously not mafia. There's also Kantrip, who is pretty much certainly town. That just leaves Felipe, and I don't want to lynch him (despite the fact that I kind of do want to)

....

....

Vote: Swiss

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V8rZWw9HE7o

Kantrip · Dec 12, 2011

Asdioh. If you are a town roleblocker as you claim to be, who roleblocked Swords?

Kantrip · Dec 12, 2011

It may seem like we're going in circles all over again, but your vote on Swiss changes things I thought from earlier so I want your up to date thoughts on the matter.

Asdioh · Dec 12, 2011

I have not a damn clue. It's possible town has two roleblockers and mafia has one (who I had been assuming all this time outprioritizes the town roles for balance purposes)
Or perhaps mafia has two roleblockers. I don't know anymore ._.

Kantrip · Dec 12, 2011

If it is the first option and town has 2 roleblockers while scum has 1, who is the 1 scum roleblocker? Who are the 2 town ones?

Asdioh · Dec 12, 2011

uhhh... probably one of the VT claims.
There are plenty of reasons to lynch Adum or Swiss, including claims and actions regardless of flip, and of course they're both supposedly owning guns when they shouldn't, but when looking through their posts it's easy for me to say "this looks like it came from a townie" more often than "this could have come from scum." I've gotten mostly town vibes from them (especially adum) most of the game, so it's really hard for me to say they're scum, and that's why this "one or the other, then maybe the other if the first flips town" crap is annoying me.

Looking through John's posts, it's EASY to say he's scum. Too easy? Maybe, hopefully not. But he shouldn't be alive at this point in the game, and he is.

July is much the same as the Adum/Swiss stuff. It's easy to see how she could be townie, but I do get some bad vibes at some point.

Felipe... I don't even want to look through his posts.

Kantrip · Dec 12, 2011

@Swiss: What is holding you back from believing Asdiohscum? Despite the lack of a good case, is it at least possible.

A good explanation as to why he claimed to have taken no action (which I don't buy) is that he didn't want to claim a block on Swords after what you had said about how you knew it wasn't a town roleblocker who did that. Everything else that has been suggested is just convoluted ideas on possibilities that make this all confusing. Asdiohscum is one of the simplest conclusions.

It is clear you think adum is scum. Do you think adum/Asdioh is possible? Likely, even?

Kantrip · Dec 12, 2011

Ninja.

Think for a second Asdioh.

How could it be one of the VT claims if you think Swiss is scum? Do you think he is scum but not roleblocker?

Asdioh · Dec 12, 2011

I'm done for the night. Hopefully Swiss will be here soonish, and without the johns.

I wrote up a whole rant in response to Kantrip, which I will now save for the morning. I want to see Swiss' thoughts first.

Kantrip · Dec 12, 2011

Good call on saving the rant. Wait for Swiss first.

July · Dec 12, 2011

Kantrip said:
@July: Yes my results contained my target's name.

I forget where my vote is, but if it's not on Swiss:

Vote: Swiss

July, you can agree with this lynch, right? It covers the most of the things we need to clear up so we aren't in this same mess toMorrow.

I can support this or Adum. I'm leaving my vote on Adum for now because I saw him flailing after a wagon started building on him and I think that based on play and role, Adum looks worse than Swiss.

Asdioh said:
Look how gross the Adum wagon currently is compared to the Swiss wagon.
Look at Felipe (and me) holding the fate of two worlds in our hands.
Look at how completely tired I am of reading and rereading and rereading.

I also was just reading July's posts and noticed how she seems to think I'm scum if Adum flips town, whereas mechanics point to me being scum if Swiss flips town. That would worry me

if I were scum.

Swiss, are you sure you're not actually scum that ****ed up their claim but then breathed a sigh of relief when you saw that it was me counterclaiming you, because you thought you would be able to play to my naievete?

My theory about how you/Swiss/Adum relate to each other is based on both roleblocker claims and the gunsmith results; Adum scum points to Swiss scum because both being identified as having guns.

adumbrodeus said:
I'm talking about his assertions about there being double town roleblockers, not his reason for targeting.

I don't like anyone's assertions that there could be double town roleblockers, but BOTH roleblockers have said exactly that and I'm pretty sure both aren't scum, so it's something I'm considering along with all the night action issues.

Swiss · Dec 12, 2011

Back from illness. Took today off work but can actually walk and am not having to run the toilet for fear of ****ting myself anymore.

Kantrip said:
@Swiss: What is holding you back from believing Asdiohscum? Despite the lack of a good case, is it at least possible.

Simply because I do not believe he can outplay me. He's bene to open, not been playing safe, been i quisitve and hasn't been afraid to swap his stances with little reasoning (that looks bad, I know, but middling scum often try to over justify every stance they change)

Good reasoning? Perhaps not, but it's nearly always right.

Kantrip said:
A good explanation as to why he claimed to have taken no action (which I don't buy) is that he didn't want to claim a block on Swords after what you had said about how you knew it wasn't a town roleblocker who did that. Everything else that has been suggested is just convoluted ideas on possibilities that make this all confusing. Asdiohscum is one of the simplest conclusions.

Yes, it is the simplest solution. But with sincere regret I can't say I think it would be the right one. Yes, that post might make Asdioh less keen to claim that block, but he knows there's no possible way I could mechanically say this - it would just be reads.

Goddamn Asdioh making Swiss take the noose for him. Thanks man.

Kantrip said:
It is clear you think adum is scum. Do you think adum/Asdioh is possible? Likely, even?

Adum is scum, but I simply do not believe Asdioh is. Sometimes, you have to admit that if someone is something other than what you believe, the game is already lost. Short of a NK, Asdioh will not die. As to the links between them, I can't say it's even something I've looked into.

Asdioh said:
I'm done for the night. Hopefully Swiss will be here soonish, and without the johns.

Flushed forever more.

We still have the case of the missing RB. I'm not gonna get angry if we go to lynch me, maybe I'm just exhausted (almost italicised this), but we know for a fact that was anti-town, we know for a fact that it wasn't me who did this, we also know for a fact I'm not scum (I honestly forget why, but I know my logic was sound and even Adum didn't contest it). Statistically & Mechanically, I am the LEAST likely person to be anti-town! Yeah you know what, **** this. I'mma get angry if we try and lynch me. We're elynching Adum.

His reaction, as July said was terrible when the wagon hit him. He was flailing hard.

adumbrodeus said:
So you have nothing better to then simply make snide remarks. You have yet to answer how this setup could be balanced with 2 town roleblockers given the claims we have.

Do you honestly expect us to believe that pretty much anyone who is not you could've possibly convinced town to accept this? If not, this setup has to be balanced against two nearly automatic town lynches in a row.

Yes, you have plenty of time to be snide, but not a moment to plug the glaring inconsistency in your argument.

This **** gets me. He knew I was ill (and I told him via LoL I almost blacked out trying to watch batman, he KNEW I was ill). (Okay, him or FF, i forget the usernames).

See, now all he is doing is playing up to the "Swiss iz da bessst scum playah in Dgames - lynchh 'immm" - why? Because that's all he's ****ing got left. Everyone else has come around to the conclusion that 2 town RB'ers is possible - but if he admits it is, he's a ****ing dead man. So now instead of saying mechanically why, which no-one really bought, he's turned onto "Swiss is playing you guys".

adumbrodeus said:
Just ask yourself asdioh, do you think that in a game with partial flips there would EVER be two town roleblockers? Would we have ever even considered it if it wasn't swiss claiming it? Do you see any realistic buffer for the double lynches that would happen?

You know this already, make the right choice.

Think about my above post, then read what he wrote here. EXACTLY what I'm talking about.

Also, what I said about the bad politican line. **** me. Is he serious? Then he has the balls to call me out on snide remarks? You call that content?

MAKE THE RIGHT CHOICE ASDIOH, VOTE: ADUM 2011 FOR A FAIRER FUTURE.

It would be funny if he weren't coming close to pulling this **** off.

Adum dies toDay.

Swiss · Dec 12, 2011

*been too open

(very early on)

Terrible grammar

Swiss · Dec 12, 2011

I get nervous, perverse,
When I vote Swiss it's worse,
His towniness is blinding,
His perception frightening,
I know when he riddles in verse
He has already prepared my hearse

And now the day is closing,
I am done quipping and posing,
I have been revealed as scum,
Oh, how foolish I was to fight Swiss,
For I am Adum.

Yeah, not my finest work. But I'm trying to get the point across that Adum really, really needs to die.

KILL HIM TO DEATH

Swiss · Dec 12, 2011

Asdioh said:
We already know Adum is a tracker of some sort, yes?
Why would scumAdum track townSwiss? What does he have to gain from that? If he sees Swiss as some sort of threat, he would rather track others in the hopes of finding a cop or doctor, and nightkill Swiss when he gets the chance. It wouldn't matter what role Swiss has, as he'll just be nightkilled anyway.

Why would townAdum track Swiss? I'll leave that up to him to answer, I guess.

Asdioh said:
Whatever this gif is, I'm sure it's an appropriate reaction to that post. Not only is it insane to think me and John could be partners, but there really is nothing survivalistic about Swiss' play. I guarantee he would have been begging for doc protections far more than he has if he were indy.

Adum, answer my question up above. I already said why it makes little sense for scumAdum to track townSwiss, so can you tell me your townAdum reasoning for tracking Swiss night 1?

Asdioh, you sincerely underestimate my ability to draw the doc protect. Adum, as any alignment, would track me as it gets him more information.

Swiss · Dec 12, 2011

Pre-post edit..I didn't see a lot of posts I should have (skimmed). Just saw them now. Ill johns so no saying I skim. Only scum skim. I skim loads, actually. But NVM.

Asdioh said:
rereading early game (again)
http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=13643236&postcount=186
This post among others, interactions with RR, etc. give me both "swiss is town" vibes and "Swiss is not scummates with RR" vibes, so Swiss is town.
By the way, did you really think Seikend's first post was super scummy, or was that just pressure?

Just gonna...

Just gonna drop this in here.

No reason why.

Sokr said:
ATM, I agree somewhat with July. I think an adum lynch would be best. However, I disagree that Swiss has to be scum if adumb is.

I never saw this.

HEY, RYKER.

RYKER BRAH.

TOLD YA.

Asdioh said:
swiss would you consider an adum lynch? i feel like there are more connections to be had regardless of flip

I suppose if I had to. Don't really want to lynch Adum.

OWAITLOL

adumbrodeus said:
Yep, I was right. Swiss is definitely indy.

Does anyone read this as:

adumbrodeus said:
I am scum but am fairly certain Swiss is not town

Lulz

adumbrodeus said:
Given that we don't have a clear mafia, only speculation about teams, I'd prefer to deal with the clear indy first and clear the air for lylo tomorrow.

vote: swiss

Lolwut

IGNORING my above quips in this post which are clear survivor mentality (inb4 adum claims wifom)

adumbrodeus said:
> Basically my point is that he's displaying clear survival mentality, not that I have a particular role in mind.

> He's worried about an town asdioh flip, even though two town roleblockers are impossible in a small game because that would prove his lie, so instead he tries to convince a newbie town that it's possible and takes advantage of my lack of confidence in my abilities and weaker persuasion skills to do it.

> He spins an eleborate tale to make it work and makes it sound good, but it only sounds good cause HE'S SWISS, it has no real evidence to back up the existence of a re-director.

> Nor has he even touched on what a re-director would do to the n2 actions.

Swiss is scum folks.

> Clear survivor mentality?

Show me where. Please, please, show me.

> Worried about a town Asdioh flip? wtf.

LOL

I don't want Asdioh dead as I think he's town and have ALL GAME SINCE BEFORE HE CLAIMED RB. You can't just turn around late game and say "Oh, Swiss only wants Asdioh alive now as if Asdioh dies it shows his read was right but means Swiss has to be scum"

LOLWAT

LET'S IGNORE THE FACT THAT SWISS HAS CALLED ASDIOH TOWN ALL GAME. THE ONLY REASON HE CALLS ASDIOH TOWN IS TO SAVE HIS BUMCAKES.

> Only sounds good because it comes from Swiss

Reads as:

adumbrodeus said:
I ran out of points to try and make so just started talking about how good Swiss is.

^ Not a real quote

> Re-director jazz

Because I do not know what they may have done.

SWISS DOESN'T KNOW WHAT NIGHT ACTIONS SCUM MIGHT HAVE USED N2. HE MUST THEREFORE BE SCUM.

I WILL NEVER USE THIS POSTING STYLE AGAIN. BUT FOR THE LOVE OF JESUS ****ING CHRIST CUPCAKES LYNCH ADUM.

WAT.

IS.

HE.

EVEN.

TRYING.

TO.

SAY?

Britches and Hose Mafia - Game Over!

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