Ask Tafokints about Ninjas and Double Kicks

Hey everyone,

Since Kirbykaze is closing out his school year with time-consuming projects and finals, I have decided to do a Ask for advice thread.

I'm not a top sheik by any means, but I can give different perspectives to situations.

Ask away!

why are your puns so good!?

Years of experience.

I've actually tried to trace back to when I first began saying cheesy lines and puns. Most of my jr high and high school friends have stated that I've always been a clownster.

Easiest way to think of puns
1. Sound out the word and try to think of similar word associations
- ex. Rugrats, the cartoon show, does this alot with the way the babies process words that adults say.
2. Think of common "pop" phrases and how they are used
3. Read newspaper headlines or watch Espn
- ex. The Miami Heat ran out of fire. The Orlando Magic pulled a trick out of a hatto get the victory

Changing the pun metagame in here

What region are you from again Tafokints? You're really good, I want to play you again since there aren't really any good sheik mains in WA.

I'm from the Norcal region.

I played many people at NW manifest, and my memory is failing me. I forgot who you were =(

I was just a scrubby puff that you played like one or two matches with lol.

A lot of people play with very extreme ideals such as, once they're off the edge they should be dead. Do you have any plans like this and how do you achieve them?

how do you fight fox

@joejoe

Against fast fallers (falcon, fox, falco), I think Sheik does have the tools to nearly cover every recovery with Fair, Bair, needles and f tilt. To give an example, I would say to watch M2K's sheik. The reason why his always works is because he spaces in a manner that really covers the straight recovery option, but is flexible enough to cover weird recoveries (the fox jumping late, fox starting side+b really late, etc)

The best way I personally plan edgeguards is I try to visualize the options that the opponent has (jump, side b, up+b angles), and try to establish a position that can cover as many options without having to make a heavy read and get punished for not reading correctly.

Is there any particular character that you want to talk about? This is a bit of a broad question, and I can break down different recovery options if you let me know what particular matchups you're struggling to edgeguard properly in.

@ Kaffei

I play the fox matchup rather differently to be honest.

Stage Selection
In terms of stages, I like FOD and Yoshi's Story the most. I will ban either PS or Dreamland depending on how campy the fox is. I tend to view that smaller stages are significantly better for sheik as opposed to larger stages. In larger stages, Fox has the ability to roam around and platform camp, which is hard to deal with. On FOD and Yoshi's, I find that stage control plays a significant factor and it becomes easier to push Fox towards a corner and eventually get a grab or good hits in.

Approaching the match against a new player
In the beginning, I will play relatively safe to get a feel for the type of player he is. Some question I ask myself:

How does he approach (nair, drills, dash attack)?
How does he vertically space (Full hops, diagonal bairs, SH nairs)?
Is he aggressive or defensive?

With more aggressive foxes, it's really important to figure out his approach patterns, and how he'll respond in different positions. To get a feel, I will tend do DD camp and runaway Fair/Bair to see how Fox responds. This will give you a basic game plan to how to play the matchup. There are many different Fox styles, so it's a little difficult to write a guide about all of them.

Fox at low %
Percentages in this matchup play a heavy role. I'm not as intricate as KirbyKaze, but I like to keep a few %s in mind.

30%ish,
- Most foxes will have many options off the jab reset
40%ish
- Dash attack and some other moves are harder to crouch cancel for Fox

From 0-40%
- I will look to space fairs and bairs mostly. I think one key part in spacing to hit correctly is to anticipate where the fox will go. Like I mentioned previously, be very observant of how the fox gets in and out against you. If the Fox is really aggressive, then I'll pre-hit an area where I think Fox will be 0.5 seconds later. This allows me to get some free hits in most of the time because they will run into the moves if they aren't careful enough and I can rack out damage.

Against more defensive Foxes, this can be more difficult and it honestly becomes a game of attrition. Don't over commit to tilting or aerials because they will weave in and out and dominate you with grabs and well timed nairs. To counter this, I will change my attack timing by simply choosing not to attack and aerial camp as well.

Racking up Damage
Unfortunately, going for 1-hit combos (aerial) is a losing proposition against Fox because Fox tends to outpriortize Sheik and will eventually get the upper hand. To win the matchup, it will come from follow ups and tech chases.

Techchasing fox
- What I find is that many Foxes tend to have the same exact pattern
1. Most will begin the match by teching in place to test your reactions. If you mess this up, prepare to get shined and then upsmashed/owned =(
2. If you cover the tech-in place, then most Foxes will tend to start to tech roll away (tech rolling in is definitely the worst option for Fox because it takes the longest) because they are scared.
3. If you keep guessing correctly, eventually they will begin to miss the tech/getup attack

This is my baseline to tech chasing. If the Fox has an unusual pattern, then here's my general guideline

1. I will try to be 1/2 a character space away from fox when he lands
a.) This will prepare me for the tech in place option
b.) If I see a non-tech, then I will jab reset
b1) If they are at lower %s, I will assume that they will tech in place after the jab reset
b2) If they are at higher %s and savvy, then I will assume they will tech away
c.) If i begin to see the screen shift, then i will immediately dash to cover the tech roll away
c1.) If they are at <40%, I regrab. If they are not, then I will dash attack and follow up with tilts/more dash attacks

d.) For the tech in place, if I feel that I'm a little late, then I will bail myself out and simply d-smash, rather then risk missing and getting shined

I'll write more to this guide later, are there any particular aspects of the matchup, you want me to discuss more?

krynxe said:

changing the pun metagame in here

what region are you from again tafokints? You're really good, i want to play you again since there aren't really any good sheik mains in wa.

Click to expand...

!!!!!!!! :o

haha, do you go to GCs ndie? I feel like I almost never play you.

I was trying to think of sheiks in wa and the only person that came to mind when I posted that was like Jerry t. so I was like "pfff"

I'm currently new to the smash scene(2 1/2 monthes in) and have recently picked up Sheik. Right now my weakest points are that i dash attack to often(>20% lets them just smash me for free) and I'm having trouble using tilts effectivley. Obviously the first problem can be fixed with more grabs, but tilts are confusing for me to pull off because I try to keep as mobile as possible. What's some good info and strategies on tilts?

That's a good question Exeggutorr

In mid-long range situations is where I'm guessing you're confused on whether to keep moving, dash attack, or tilt.

The main thing I pay attention to is my opponent's movement patterns. Sheik is inheritanly a defensive character and the primary function of tilts are to cover zones and protect yourself from approaches in a mid-long range situation.

Although Sheik's moves are really great (long range, fast), you don't want to bail on zoning to do these attacks preemptively. This is a common mistake for me as well as newer sheiks to commit too early to attacks. I've mentioned in another post in the QA thread that you can't simply herp derp grabs and free hits as many other non-sheik mains will think. You have to work your way in and trap/corner your opponent, THEN you get your free buffet selection of grabs/tilts/dash attacks.

Exeggutorr said:

I'm currently new to the smash scene(2 1/2 monthes in) and have recently picked up Sheik. Right now my weakest points are that i dash attack to often(>20% lets them just smash me for free) and I'm having trouble using tilts effectivley. Obviously the first problem can be fixed with more grabs, but tilts are confusing for me to pull off because I try to keep as mobile as possible. What's some good info and strategies on tilts?

Click to expand...

For the first one, mix in SH aerial stuff too. Grab and dash attack are not enough because then they'll start jumping over them and ****** you. Aerials (includes aerial needles) are a good way of setting up grabs at low percent anyway.

For the second one, break up your movement with WDs, walking, dash cancels, etc. Sheik at heart is a character who wants the opponent to be sideways with her in some way. Sideways and slightly above, sideways and slightly below, or just sideways. Her strongest moves (in terms of priority and other bullcrap [fair, f-tilt, bair]) all function best when the opponent is to her side so you just want to move around and crap to emphasize this. By breaking up your movement into more steps, you get more options because you can change what you're doing at each step based on what the opponent's doing (obviously this doesn't always work but worry about that later).

Falco

1) How do you deal with lasers? low and high and a mix of both
2) When do you crouch cancel?
3) How to cover falco when he is firefoxing from above the ledge?
4) Any insight on use of platforms or how falco uses them against you?

And just general tips?

I'm finding a hard time staying aggressive in the match up. Falco seems to be able to combo break me pretty hard with up tilts when i aerial and shine spot dodge and up tilt when i dash attack.

Krynxe said:

haha, do you go to GCs ndie? I feel like I almost never play you.

I was trying to think of sheiks in wa and the only person that came to mind when I posted that was like Jerry t. so I was like "pfff"

Click to expand...

I rarely get to GCs anymore, I'm always at pookies on wednesdays though, and mikes whenever we play.

I think the one thing to remember is to not let the laser set up into something more devastating. Control your horizontal spacing. If you get hit by just the laser, big deal, it's only 2%. That's the thing you have to keep in mind. It's only 2% on its own

2. My natural precondition is to typically crouch cancel, while holding away. This gives a good DI against down airs or shines and will also help against nairs at lower %. If they start catching on, then I mix up the DIs a bit.

3. I ask myself how tricky are they. If they are technical, I have a bias and tend to think they will sweet-spot ledge, and will do drop-zone fair. Against thinking players, I like to pretend-cover ledge, and then fair covering, their straight recovery. If they recover high diagonal, you have the time to still recover and cover that option.

4. I don't like being below a falco because that DAIR beats everything. I do love pretend jumping if i'm below them to bait them to aerial, and then bair at a distance. The main thing is that I try to get them horizontal-near me if that makes sense. If they are directly above = bad, if they are below = they CC everything =/

who let tafokints make a thread

this is mayhem

joejoe22802 said:

Falco

1) How do you deal with lasers? low and high and a mix of both
2) When do you crouch cancel?
3) How to cover falco when he is firefoxing from above the ledge?
4) Any insight on use of platforms or how falco uses them against you?

And just general tips?

I'm finding a hard time staying aggressive in the match up. Falco seems to be able to combo break me pretty hard with up tilts when i aerial and shine spot dodge and up tilt when i dash attack.

Click to expand...

1)PSing, WD OoS, short hops, crouching, dashing and platforms as appropriate.
2)Rarely. It only really works well against nair, jabs, utilt etc, and in some cases (dair, shine etc) can lead to you being comboed easier. That said, if you deal with 1) right, you won't get caught in his attacks too often.
3)If you see it fast enough or predict it, give him no respect and slap him. Depending on the available platforms, I often just cover across and high and then focus my efforts on stopping them getting away from the ledge. However, if they keep going to ledge, needles are safe and should net the kill unless they instant side b after getting hit.
4)You don't want to be above or below a falco unless it's to continue a combo. Platforms greatly increase movement options and make combos nice and easy if you can force them to tech on a platform. Always consider where a falco is going to be able to quickly put out his broken hitboxes, and then try to move such that you can use your horizontal moves (as KK said) to hit him around.

Lovage said:

who let tafokints make a thread

this is mayhem

Click to expand...

I was gone at the time and nobody else was doing it.

Mojo-Jojo:

1) If you stay spaced for long enough, most Falcos will eventually swing at you (which is basically how Peach does the MU). Alternatively, you can try to poke him out of the air with your aerials (which is what you do if they still don't approach). You can also troll him with full sets of needles. The only real trick with doing your aerials is to not get caught swinging blindly because then he will laser to bait your SH fair or whatever and then dash dance > grab / dash attack (or whatever) on it and punish you forever with it. Laser --> dash dance is pretty good vs Sheik's low aerial mobility so you have to react well or be very good at chicken. Whichever.

2) If he's staggered and doing panicky stuff like jabs to try and force hits. From like 0-8 it's okay vs his dair. If he's trying to combo off lasers directly from too far away. CC is pretty crap vs Falco in a general sense though.

3) Jump at him in some way and fair or bair. Just do it.

4) He's mainly gonna use them to have more dair approach angles (because dair really is that good). He's also gonna run off them and laser if you stay away from his dair approach areas, but this really isn't a big concern. You're gonna use them to reset positioning and have different angles to attack him without engaging his lasers (mostly with needles, fair, bair). You counter his dair approach angles by sticking bairs in its path or staying out of that area (which prompts him to laser, but falling lasers aren't really a big deal and you can do a variety of things about them, as discussed above).

What sort of spacing/positioning should sheik try and maintain vs falcon? I find it pretty intuitive against spacies and marth (which I consider the faster paced match ups in top tiers where you don't get a lot of time to think/react). However, with falcon I am never sure where I want to be, and feel falcon always has more and better options at almost any neutral position. As soon as I can stop him moving, everything is happy, but until then, I really struggle with his speed.

gm jack said:

What sort of spacing/positioning should sheik try and maintain vs falcon? I find it pretty intuitive against spacies and marth (which I consider the faster paced match ups in top tiers where you don't get a lot of time to think/react). However, with falcon I am never sure where I want to be, and feel falcon always has more and better options at almost any neutral position. As soon as I can stop him moving, everything is happy, but until then, I really struggle with his speed.

Click to expand...

I can't answer positioning in too much detail because I don't understand it too well myself but I think part of your problem is giving Falcon too much credit. Falcon only really has a few options against you at a given time (provided you're not committing heavily to anything). He can only really dash dance > grab or his aerials. And of his aerials, he only really has his bair, knee, and stomp if you're grounded because his uair doesn't hit very well and everything else gets ***** by crouching. And his grab has issues with crouching to some degree because he basically needs to overlap his body with yours to land the grab (which makes dash-punishing some of your fairs, WDs, walking, and other stuff really hard for him).

If you walk around and use a mix of crouch, WD back, shield > WD back, and SH (fair & bair) as your main stuff to play the spacing game (with tilts interspersed if you see him commit to something) you'll probably notice him try to do all manner of nonsense to try and play around your stuff including FJing across the level, trying to bait with dash SH > double jump (which greatly cut down his horizontal momentum), ground moves (like f-tilt), and you'll probably force him to back up a lot. From there it's just cake to put a lid on his movement.

Just don't get caught doing dumb things like trying to jump all the way up to reach him when he's camping the platforms. Falcon's actually rather good with them.

In all honesty, he's probably more afraid of you than vice versa.