Either way, it's pretty quick, and it hits multiple times. It doesn't combo properly, but it's fast enough to create difficulty with that.
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Wario's Match-Ups!
- Thread starter xzx
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Labernash
Smash Lord
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Olimar's D-tilt is broken.
I don't know much about this MU, but as I've been playing Olimar, I'd say it's a -1. No terrible grab releases, he has a broken projectile, his grab and smashes out range nearly everything we got, we have to work really hard to deal minimal damage while he's doing 50% Grab combos.
Like I said, I don't know how to play this MU, but based on what both characters can do, I'd say it's in Olimas favor.
I don't know much about this MU, but as I've been playing Olimar, I'd say it's a -1. No terrible grab releases, he has a broken projectile, his grab and smashes out range nearly everything we got, we have to work really hard to deal minimal damage while he's doing 50% Grab combos.
Like I said, I don't know how to play this MU, but based on what both characters can do, I'd say it's in Olimas favor.
Iota
Smash Lord
His projectile is far from broken in the MU it's only a little harder to avoid than Snake's camp game. He honestly shouldn't be grabbing you unless you're getting read and his smashes may have more range but they get outprioritized or clash with literally EVERYTHING we have. D-throw strings should only be doing at most 30% if it does anymore he obviously has 1-2 pikmin on you and then gets a read after the first follow up
Labernash
Smash Lord
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It is so easy to outspace people with Olimar. You approach, he just goes forward and pivot grabs you. He should be throwing Pikmin, you keep knocking them off, you take damage, want to put some on him, approach him, he walks and pivot grabs you, D-throw> U-Smash > U-air, you're at 60% and 30 seconds into the match, he throws more Pikmin, grabs you with a Blue Pikmin and B-throw, throws Pikmin while your offstage, Purple U-Smash you at 90% and your dead. 7:00 on the timer.
There is not much you can do to put damage on him without taking some. I suck at this game and even I get grabs like this all the time. It's so easy. The only thing we have on him is that we can kill him super early. He kills us fairly early, and racks up damage faster. I don't know how to get in on him, that's why I say this. It ISN'T super hard apperently, but I mean, it seems like when Olimars lose it's because they opt to use a simple tool.
My city is pro-ban Olimar because of my Olimar, and I'm free. I don't see how Wario can realistically get in and hurt Olimar significantly without getting hurt.
There is not much you can do to put damage on him without taking some. I suck at this game and even I get grabs like this all the time. It's so easy. The only thing we have on him is that we can kill him super early. He kills us fairly early, and racks up damage faster. I don't know how to get in on him, that's why I say this. It ISN'T super hard apperently, but I mean, it seems like when Olimars lose it's because they opt to use a simple tool.
My city is pro-ban Olimar because of my Olimar, and I'm free. I don't see how Wario can realistically get in and hurt Olimar significantly without getting hurt.
How does a player walk in and pivot grab? That's not how pivot grabs work. 
Iota
Smash Lord
If the Olimar has enough time to run and pivot grab you're obviously being very predictable with your approaches and are getting outplayed. It's very possible to knock the pikmin off of you before you take damage the timing is just strict. Uair is not a true combo out of u-smash you can jump away from that **** along with that I have to mention again you must SDI his uair if you do that it becomes so much easier to rack up damage and punishes on him and he loses one of his best pressuring options while we're in the air. If you're letting Olimar grab you enough so that his u-smash is fresh enough to kill at 90% something is seriously wrong. You should never be taking more than 20% a minute if you are you're getting outplayed and generally aren't camping enough. You should not be worrying about doing too much damage just work on doing small pokes and baiting him into doing something stupid so you get a hard punish. If you're camping enough you won't be dying till 150+. Hearing that kind of stuff sounds like your city is pretty free.
Labernash
Smash Lord
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U-air is true at low %'s, and if you SDI it, you'll just get Nair'd. And after the first U-smash, D-throw> U-smash doesn't work anymore, and the U-smash is getting unstaled by Pikmin Toss. You really shouldn't be able to bait anything, he should pretty much only be throwing Pikmin and grabbing any approach. If he messes up a pivot grab and does a turn around dash grab, that's the best punish you should be getting. Wanna poke with F-air? pivot grabbed. N-air? Pivot Grabbed. Basically, if you can get him above you, you can get an U-air, but dat Whistle Armor tho stops any follow up.
You may can take 20% a minute, but you certainly won't be dealing anything more. I prefer being super campy, but dodging Pikmin the whole time won't win a match. You have to atleast deal SOMETHING. Which is why waft is broken. If you can clap him three times and 1:30 waft him, you get a stock. But again, dat whistle armor tho.
And my city is SO free.
You may can take 20% a minute, but you certainly won't be dealing anything more. I prefer being super campy, but dodging Pikmin the whole time won't win a match. You have to atleast deal SOMETHING. Which is why waft is broken. If you can clap him three times and 1:30 waft him, you get a stock. But again, dat whistle armor tho.
And my city is SO free.
Iota
Smash Lord
Uair isn't true at low percents unless you derp DI both the d-throw and the u-smash....if you're SDIing fast enough you shouldn't be getting naired afterwards...nair doesn't even have enough range anyway to stop Wario's punishes. You're right people shouldn't be able to bait but the thing is people aren't perfect so it is going to work eventually. If every approach you do is getting pivot grabbed then again you're getting outplayed and are generally being predictable with them. Wario can just go ahead and just bait the pivot grab if you use it so much and then punish it with his own grab. If he messes it up you can get more than just grab too you can get bair, fair, dair, DA, and even f-smash/waft if you're close enough. Whistling requires reads to do well, if the Olimar gets hasty with the whistles he can just throw out bite to counter it. You can deal damage it just takes a lot of patience you don't need to deal more damage than Olimar because he dies a lot sooner than you.
I know this is Pwneroni's lines, but actually the tires (especially the bigger ones) are good for keeping the Pikmin away. Because every time a tire hits a (thrown) Pikmin it bounces upwards, which means that if Spamimar always are throwing Pikmin at you, the tire will catch them and it will bounce upwards and knock all the Pikmin away. Yeah, even Olimar's sourspot f-smash is included in this. If, however, you are all "soaked" with Pikmin, up-tilt them and they will die/get of you + that refreshment bonus. Seriously, up-tilt is the best way of getting them off you.
Up-throwing Olimar is also a good way of dealing damage to him since we want Olimar in the air/offstage.
Running with the bike and tilting it slightly upwards will not letting you get caught by Grabimar's grab, and it will run over his d-smash and f-smash, but not up-smash. Yeah, even his Pikmin will fear this.
Bite Olimar if possible, and grab him too if he shields alot, waiting to grabbing you out of shield. Land a waft if Olimar is in the air/offstage for an early KO. Also, fair, dair and nair him horizontally. Dairing OPmar vertically might work, but don't be too predictable with it.
D-tilt is a fast ground move against Olimar and it will suprise him.
Oh, and the 1:45 waft is the strongest waft Wario has, just saying.
Up-throwing Olimar is also a good way of dealing damage to him since we want Olimar in the air/offstage.
Running with the bike and tilting it slightly upwards will not letting you get caught by Grabimar's grab, and it will run over his d-smash and f-smash, but not up-smash. Yeah, even his Pikmin will fear this.
Bite Olimar if possible, and grab him too if he shields alot, waiting to grabbing you out of shield. Land a waft if Olimar is in the air/offstage for an early KO. Also, fair, dair and nair him horizontally. Dairing OPmar vertically might work, but don't be too predictable with it.
D-tilt is a fast ground move against Olimar and it will suprise him.
Oh, and the 1:45 waft is the strongest waft Wario has, just saying.
Iota
Smash Lord
He can prob shield grab you out of bike like most chars. It's not a good idea to bike approach most of the time anyway since he can just JC u-smash you out of it. Tires really are pretty god at countering most of Olimar's camp game along with making your kill move punishes a lot easier to hit with once Olimar makes that precious mistake.
If Wario is just travelling forward, then yes. Otherwise no, since when Wario is wheeling (as long as the front part of the bike isn't touching the ground) Wario will hit Olimar. Wario is too highly located for Olimar to grab him. Hope that helped.
One-Up
Smash Apprentice
pwneroni has sex with tires i swear... he love them so much.
Labernash
Smash Lord
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Mooooaaaannnnerowni. :D
Like I said, Iota, I don't know this MU, so I'll take your word for it. Just saying from my experience playing as him, it's easy for Olimar.
You'd be surprised about how high the IC's grab range actually extends.
Avoid shorp hopping too much infront of them. It's too risky unless you're really safe about it.
If you are going to SH and poke do it with fair and quickly get away. Bair is pretty unsafe unless you retreat with it. Obviously you should avoid biting or grabbing when they are together.
Tires might actually prove usefull when avoiding the grab but I'll leave that talk to Pwneroni since tires are his area of expertise
Platform camping is your friend. Take your time and pressure/poke them from all directions, but DO IT SAFELY. Dair will quickly render sheir shield useless and it will separate them easily. Once you get them separated be sure to unleash all hell on nana. U-air, charged f-smash or even fart can be used on nana to get her out of the way. Now don't get too cocky once Nana is out. Sopo is still bad but the match is not over and anything can still happen. Having Sopo offstage puts him in a great disadvantage since your Bair/Fair and F-tilt pretty much beats his side-B recovery and the rest should be self-explanatory.
random fact: You can ride with your Bike through their blizzard but I wouldn't recommend relying on it as a blizzard counter more than maybe once as a gimmick/surprise.
kinda messy text but that'll be my contribution for the moment.
I love playing this MU on stages like BF and Lylat that have lots of platforms for platform camping. PS1 and Frigate are all ideal options against the ICs as well.
+1 in Wario's favour.
Avoid shorp hopping too much infront of them. It's too risky unless you're really safe about it.
If you are going to SH and poke do it with fair and quickly get away. Bair is pretty unsafe unless you retreat with it. Obviously you should avoid biting or grabbing when they are together.
Tires might actually prove usefull when avoiding the grab but I'll leave that talk to Pwneroni since tires are his area of expertise
Platform camping is your friend. Take your time and pressure/poke them from all directions, but DO IT SAFELY. Dair will quickly render sheir shield useless and it will separate them easily. Once you get them separated be sure to unleash all hell on nana. U-air, charged f-smash or even fart can be used on nana to get her out of the way. Now don't get too cocky once Nana is out. Sopo is still bad but the match is not over and anything can still happen. Having Sopo offstage puts him in a great disadvantage since your Bair/Fair and F-tilt pretty much beats his side-B recovery and the rest should be self-explanatory.
random fact: You can ride with your Bike through their blizzard but I wouldn't recommend relying on it as a blizzard counter more than maybe once as a gimmick/surprise.
kinda messy text but that'll be my contribution for the moment.
I love playing this MU on stages like BF and Lylat that have lots of platforms for platform camping. PS1 and Frigate are all ideal options against the ICs as well.
+1 in Wario's favour.
Ice Climber's range is annoying since they have disjointed hitboxes. That hurts our trading game. In theory, one grab means death, so do everything to not get grabbed. IC's aerial game is a pain if we are careless, so one must be extra cautious. Camping is a must for Wario, and getting those nairs and dairs to seperate them to an early Nana KO (with fart/f-smash/f-tilt/w/e) are really important. Retreating bairs work well too.
Sincerely, Wario's tires and bike are excellent tools in this MU. Stage controlling with the tires is a good way of letting a big balloon of pressure burst on them. Running over their blizzards with the bike may be damaging, but it is super safe (if not IC's are reading it). Seriously, stay in the air in this MU. Don't dare to challenge their ground game!
In todays meta game, I would say this is a typical 50/50 MU, anyone's game. IC's have tools to shut us down, but if we are spacing good enough and are unpredictable I think we will do well in this MU. And don't forget those tires!!
Jebu: +1
xzx: 0
Sincerely, Wario's tires and bike are excellent tools in this MU. Stage controlling with the tires is a good way of letting a big balloon of pressure burst on them. Running over their blizzards with the bike may be damaging, but it is super safe (if not IC's are reading it). Seriously, stay in the air in this MU. Don't dare to challenge their ground game!
In todays meta game, I would say this is a typical 50/50 MU, anyone's game. IC's have tools to shut us down, but if we are spacing good enough and are unpredictable I think we will do well in this MU. And don't forget those tires!!
Jebu: +1
xzx: 0
Pwneroni
Smash Lord
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I don't have a lot of tire experience with this matchup unfortunately, so most of it will be speculation and theory. Hmmm... well both Nana and Popo count as separate hurtboxes, so if a tire hits one of them then it can still hit the other without being rethrown. ICs Uair will easily destroy a tire, so tire approaches from above may be less effective.
I would say the best use of tires would be to Uthrow them and try to pressure ICs into them.
I would say the best use of tires would be to Uthrow them and try to pressure ICs into them.
Pwneroni
Smash Lord
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Nope, doesn't create a hitbox if it's hit outta your hands. If you Uthrow a tire and stay fairly close to it, the bouncing wheel could possibly mess up a chaingrab too
Nair is my favorite move against ICs, along with Dair. Both can be very safe, split up the duo and allow you to abuse the secondary Climber. Nair2 can really screw up ICs recovery if you do it right
SH Bair is really quite safe as well, a good poke with some range that will be really hard to punish!
Nair is my favorite move against ICs, along with Dair. Both can be very safe, split up the duo and allow you to abuse the secondary Climber. Nair2 can really screw up ICs recovery if you do it right
SH Bair is really quite safe as well, a good poke with some range that will be really hard to punish!
Croi
Smash Lord
I play a couple ICs in my region but they're all garbage (in the global sense, anyway, they do well regionally) so I don't know what to really say about this MU. Dair works lots though, loves me some dair.
If I had to give it a rating, the biggest threat Wario has to face is their grab. Which is the exact case with most other characters anyway. Play super gay, run at every opportunity, and make sure you always have a tire. If both players know what they're doing, it should be an uphill battle for the ICs, so I want to say +1 Wario.
If I had to give it a rating, the biggest threat Wario has to face is their grab. Which is the exact case with most other characters anyway. Play super gay, run at every opportunity, and make sure you always have a tire. If both players know what they're doing, it should be an uphill battle for the ICs, so I want to say +1 Wario.
![[FBC] ESAM](/data/avatars/l/92/92614.jpg?1365783210){kind=avatar}
[FBC] ESAM
Smash Legend
+1 or +2 depending on stagelist.
If using a more restricted stagelist like the japanese ruleset or even Apex's ruleset, it is +2. Not having a strong CP stage is DEATH for wario.
So pretty much what happens in this MU is this: ICs have ways to make wario approach/safer ways to do damage to him, causing wario to approach. This leads to lots of pivot grabs on blizzards hitting wario while sometimes ICs being hit (in general). One grab leads to death, obviously, so Wario has VERY little room for error. Once ICs have a strong lead, it is practically impossible to make it back for Wario, he doesn't have the tools in this MU to make a comeback since fart isn't that scary considering our SH uair and pivot grabs are both amazing options.
I would go into it more, but I'm tired. I'll probably post again tomorrow.
If using a more restricted stagelist like the japanese ruleset or even Apex's ruleset, it is +2. Not having a strong CP stage is DEATH for wario.
So pretty much what happens in this MU is this: ICs have ways to make wario approach/safer ways to do damage to him, causing wario to approach. This leads to lots of pivot grabs on blizzards hitting wario while sometimes ICs being hit (in general). One grab leads to death, obviously, so Wario has VERY little room for error. Once ICs have a strong lead, it is practically impossible to make it back for Wario, he doesn't have the tools in this MU to make a comeback since fart isn't that scary considering our SH uair and pivot grabs are both amazing options.
I would go into it more, but I'm tired. I'll probably post again tomorrow.
Ruinn
Smash Ace
one thing i can say is wario doesnt beat ics
TheSaintKai
Smash Ace
I'm going to say either +1 or even, but if I had to choose, it would be in our favor. I'll post on it if I have time between shifts today. And keep in mind that my advice is tentative, but I did learn a lot from Reflex (as in, he actually explained the choices I should be making and why they beat Wario) when I played him.
Uh, I would call it even at worst for us, by virtue of the fact that if Wario gets a lead, Ice Climbers can't do anything safe. Maybe +1 Wario. It's just a boring matchup that Wario has more control in. Ice Climbers have good walling potential, but they can still only guess, because they don't move fast enough otherwise.
The ICs are saying it's in their favor.
Lord Chair
Smash Master
I wouldn't say Wario has more control. IC are the ones throwing out safe moves that have a remote chance of hitting and it's generally always Wario waiting for IC to mess up, rather than the other way around. I'd go as far as say Wario can generally poke with FH fairs and wait for Nana to trip, and somewhere in the poke war something goes wrong with either side and something gets ***** by something dumb and then something dies. Be it Wario, be it Popo, be it Nana or be it your very own dignity. Matches are either decided by someone messing up technically, someone tripping or just something very dumb happening that doesn't make any sense whatsoever and shouldn't be taken into account when going into the matchup in the first place.
Probably IC advantage, I haven't played any IC of Vinnie's as of yet. Myollnir pretty much quit IC afaik so I doubt if I'll ever get the chance to play a strong IC player (istudying was never that good at them imo). The above anecdote should make a whole lot of sense though (and be far from helpful in actually tackling the MU).
Probably IC advantage, I haven't played any IC of Vinnie's as of yet. Myollnir pretty much quit IC afaik so I doubt if I'll ever get the chance to play a strong IC player (istudying was never that good at them imo). The above anecdote should make a whole lot of sense though (and be far from helpful in actually tackling the MU).
Ruinn
Smash Ace
im gonna go with even as well
[FBC] ESAM
Smash Legend
Wario can't just run everywhere because ICs can just throw out ice blocks to cover landing options. Desyncing really helps in this MU in terms of catching Wario because we can limit his landing options which would bring you closer to us, AKA grab city. We do way more damage than you do, bite is practically useless, waft is only scary as a nana killer. You cannot run away forever like Reflex said, only on like...1 stage (Castle Siege). Either way, that stage has 2 transformations clearly in ICs favor (1 and 3), so it isn't even that good if the ICs is patient enough and not over-committing.
Also, I meant +1 or +2 in ICs favor. **** is free.
Also, I meant +1 or +2 in ICs favor. **** is free.