Rate And Discuss Their Chances: Closed

N3ON · Aug 2, 2012

Super Smash Bros. Fan said:
@N3ON: We only know that Starfy was heavily requested on one website by ChronoBound. ToiseofChoice's finding indicated that he was rarely requested. So it's hard to say how requested he is, but I would guess more than Isaac or Little Mac but less than Saki or Shulk.

Not that I didn't believe you or Toise or anything, but after checking around on some Japanese sites, turns out Starfy didn't show up as much as I originally thought he did. Well one he did show up pretty regularly on, but on the majority he didn't. Honestly I even saw more requests for Krystal and Isaac. The amount of requests for Megaman, Cloud, and anime/manga characters were staggering though. :laugh:

So yeah, I'm going to drop my score for his likelihood down to a 1.5.

Also gonna predict Shulk at a 3.4.

DakotaBonez · Aug 2, 2012

I'm beginning to wonder if smash is as big in Japan as it is in the west.

Maybe Japan is just trolling by requesting Naruto and Hatsune Miku. Then again anime characters appear in the majority of smash fangames here in the west as well.

--- · Aug 2, 2012

Super Smash Bros. Fan said:
To be fair, Starfy does have a lot of move set potentials as there has been a few move sets for it. Ultimately, though, it comes down to Sakurai's opinion on him and as we all know, what he thinks of a characters decides whenever or not it gets in. From what the Assist Trophy status gave us, Sakurai clearly doesn't realize Starfy's potential and I doubt he wants to do research just to appeal to a small fan base.

There's probably a few things he does besides spinning, but I just don't see him being all that fit for a playable status/adding anything to the game. What kind of standards and smashes would he have with arms stubbier than even Kirby or Jiggs (doubt he stretches like Slime too)? Yeah, Little Mac does nothing but punch but there's a lot more to play off that. Call it bias if you want to, but I have yet to see a proper moveset or one that plays off whatever else he can do outside of a special or two.

And yeah, what Star said.

PsychoIncarnate · Aug 2, 2012

Yay, Tom Nook is after Shulk.

Shulk angry, shulk SMASH!!!

deuxhero · Aug 2, 2012

Want: 2
He isn't a choice that I despise and would not complain if he got in, but I have no intrest in him.

Likely: 2.5
He had an Assist Trophy... which mocked him and said he was incapable of doing anything. He's had some games reach the US though, so he has some chance.

Nominate Anna x5.

jigglover · Aug 2, 2012

I don't really like the starfy series, As aforementioned by somebody, it feels like a rip-off of the kirby series, and since I already had a DS after playing it on the DS, I just swore that I would never buy a Starfy game again. Anyway... Want 0 and likelihood 0 He also doesn't have any move-set potential as far as I've seen. On a happier note, the shop let me return the Starfy game with a full refund!

Editing this late since my votes may not have been counted. Sakurai has no interest in Starfy, he didn't even spell its name right in brawl...

Predict for Shulk, 3.21
Nominations: Plusle and Minun x5

SmashShadow · Aug 2, 2012

Starfy: Want/2 likelihood/1.75
I don't see much interest for him being a playable charcter from Sakurai or the fans.

Shulk prediction: 3.32

nomination: Shadow the hedgehog x5

Venus of the Desert Bloom · Aug 2, 2012

Starfy is one of the characters I would actually not want to see in Smash 4. I apologize to all the Starfy fans but I just have a hard time supporting him. I admit I haven't actually sat down and played his games. I could be ignorant but, at first glance, they remind me a little bit of Kirby. While not a bad thing, I just didn't interest me.

However, I do admit that Starfy does have some things going for him:

1. He can be a unique character. He has a wide range of abilities and attacks that be fashioned into a move set.

2. He fits the Smash atmosphere both visually and spiritually. He is essentially a super star.

3. he could have a very unique play style based around clumsy and flitty attacks. In addition, we have yet to really see a character with a naive personality.

However, Starfy isn't exactly a "super star" for Nintendo and has a relatively low following though admitengly, he does have fairly good support from the Japanese which is mostly derived from most of his games being Japan only. Starfy finally saw an international release in The Legendary Starfy in 2009, almost a year AFTER the Japanese release on the DS. Before that, Starfy was a Japan Only character. It has been said before in this thread that while Sakurai is iffy about Japan only characters. It worked for Marth, Roy, and Lucas but, other than that, he hasn't included a large amount of them.

So while Starfy is an interesting character with star power potential with five games under his belt; he lacks of the international appeal as well as notoriety within the Smash community. I am pretty sure a god majority Smashers would be less than ecstatic to play as a character who they whooped on whenever he came out of the Assist trophy.

For Starfy,

Want: 1
Likeliness: 1.80

Shulk Prediction: 3.85

Nominations:
Dixie Kong x2
Tom Nook x1
Mega Man x1
Saki x1

~ Valkyrie ~ · Aug 2, 2012

Starfy

Starfy's mostly few steps behind from other more requested characters:his fanbase is obviously smaller and less active when compared to others, most of his games are japan-only, and Sakurai clearly has shown that he might not really see him fighting. On the other hand, some might've noticed that Starly/Stapy-trophy was being under "Fighters Related, which might actually state something otherwise.

Many say he might not bring anything new in his moveset or series, but I don't agree:

- Starfy's fighting style could be reflected on his games: he's sluggish on ground, but moves in the air very fluidly and delivers some of his best attacks in his aerials. Something comparable to Jigglypuff in a sense. The idea behind it could be that he'd move around the air like it's water: marine-style fighting.

- Starfy can glide, but not wall jump. At least he can crawl and also deliver the High Hat Spin.

- Starfy would use Moe for his most strongest attacks, like Forward Smash to slam enemies with him.

- Despite how generic Starfy looks, with some very good imagination, he can actually have an interesting moveset. AlgusUnderdunk made this moveset which seemingly conveys him as some hybrid between Kirby and Squirtle:

For those who wonder what his series could bring to Smash Bros: he could actually bring a new element to the series that could enchance the gameplay: the marine moving element.

What if we could have fights underwater? What if characters get to have a fully functional ability to swim and even go underwater?

Of course attacks would be more sluggish, but I think a stage that is completely underwater seems no-no. I suggest stage segments that allow underwater movement (like a scrolling/moving stage going into underwater at some part.)

If not taking account the suspicious placement of Stapy-trophy's placement, mostly things seems pretty unfavoured against him, and maybe in the end he might not be yet very worthy for getting a playable spot in Smash for now as he's still quite unpopular. Unless he gets more popularity and support during these years, Smash would just make him a punchbag again. (God I hope not...)
I'm though been supporting him for very long time and I hope they add him so Smash can get some new elements on it's gameplay and I get to play as my most awaited character for Smash Bros after all this years.

Want: 5.
Likelyhood: 3.2

Predicting Shulk to get 3.68

Noms:

Lip x2

Toad x3

Mario & Sonic Guy · Aug 2, 2012

Starfy gets a 3 from me. Seeing as he managed to come to North America, I'd think that Starfy would get more attention than before.

Nominations
1: Rosalina
2: Black Shadow
3: Zoroark
4: Dixie Kong
5: Saki

Robert of Normandy · Aug 2, 2012

Starfy? Hm...

Want: 2.5
Haven't played any of his games, so I don't feel qualified to talk about moveset potential.
Likelihood: 3.5
He seems to do OK in all the polls I've seen him in. Finally getting an international release for one of his games probably helps his chances.

Nominations:
Roy x5

kisamefishfries · Aug 2, 2012

starfy? ah
want: 1.8
likeliness: 2.6 I guess? I don't know I don't think starfy is a big deal anymore.

nominations
Lloyd Irving x3
Paper Mario x2

Opossum · Aug 2, 2012

jigglover said:
I don't really like the starfy series, As aforementioned by somebody, it feels like a rip-off of the kirby series, and since I already had a DS after playing it on the DS, I just swore that I would never buy a Starfy game again. Anyway... Want 0 and likelihood 0 He also doesn't have any move-set potential as far as I've seen. On a happier note, the shop let me return the Starfy game with a full refund!

Predict for Shulk, 3.21
Nominations: Plusle and Minun x5

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't "Moveset Potential" an invalid reason?

Anyway, due to the international release and the fact that he has had more games than the other modern series contenders, as well as many moves that can translate well into Smash, I actually think he has a pretty good shot. Especially since he's well liked in Japan.

For want, after I played his game, and loved it, is a 5.

For likelihood, I'm actually going to the higher end of the scale with a 3.8. I honestly think he has a great shot.

Predictions: 3.14 for Shulk. Pi.

Nominations: x5 Samurai Goroh

Deleted member · Aug 2, 2012

Opossum said:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't "Moveset Potential" an invalid reason?

Given that Sakurai takes into account uniqueness and there was an article that started that he takes into account move set potentials (I'll find it for you if you want it), it isn't an invalid reason. It's when you say he doesn't have the move set potentials without explaining why is when things become problematic. That's why I consider jigglover's "no move set potentials" argument to be a problem; because Starfy does have move set potential, which Young Horsetail proved.

Whenever or not personal experience count as a valid reason, I'm not sure on, but it's better than not having one at all. Leaning towards yes, but someone is free to object to this.

MelMoe · Aug 2, 2012

Nominations

IceClimbers x5

Voting & Discussing

Starfy

Personal Bias: 3.6
Likelihood: 4

I don't understand why everyone thinks that Starfy will be over-looked. He doesn't have anything against him except other smaller franchises. Sure his last game was back in 2009, but it was no longer just another Japan-exclusive series & it sold well overall. The series already has 5 games & will continue to make more. He is still a popular character, maybe not like Shulk, but that is because Xenoblade is a new release (at least in NA). Starfy has more to offer than just spinning around; do a little more research before coming to that conclusion. If Sakurai didn't like Starfy he wouldn't have even considered him an assist trophy. I really don't think he will just be another assist in SSB4. Any new possible candidates who've had a new game between Brawl & SSB4 are up for consideration, as long as they are fairly popular & can bring something new for SSB4.

Sin & Punishment: Star Successor was released about one year after Legendary Starfy, & I don't see Saki's (Isa's) likelihood (or popularity) being really low.

Prediction

Shulk: 4

Starphoenix · Aug 2, 2012

Feel bad having to tear into Starfy. Like the guy, really do, yet I cannot set aside what I know to be true.

Opossum · Aug 2, 2012

Star's a poet and didn't know it.

Arcadenik · Aug 2, 2012

Starfy.
Want - 5
Likeliness - 2

Nominations - Duck Hunt Dog, Tingle, Meowth, Little Mac, King Hippo

Deleted member · Aug 2, 2012

Arcadenik, please explain your vote.

Arcadenik · Aug 2, 2012

Super Smash Bros. Fan said:
Arcadenik, please explain your vote.

I'm probably one of the few people here who actually bothered to pick up and play The Legendary Starfy when it came out in North America. I liked his abilities and I think he would fit very well in Smash. He can bring an underwater stage with him. But I know he is not often requested because of the poor first impression he had in the West thanks to his questionable role as an Assist Trophy in Brawl (people think he sucks and don't want him in Smash). This could be interpreted in Sakurai's mind that people don't really get excited over the idea of playing as Starfy. But I have hope that Starfy would get in due to the fact his genre is platformer. The majority of characters in Smash have been playable in a platformer game and Smash is a platformer game with fighting elements.

Starphoenix · Aug 2, 2012

Arcadenik said:
This could be interpreted in Sakurai's mind that people don't really get excited over the idea of playing as Starfy.

This is very true. During the poll that came out after Brawl's reveal trailer, the one asking which character revealed was people's favorite, Wario placed last and Sakurai expressed that he wondered if adding Wario was a mistake. Whether he was joking or not, I have not a clue, but apparently he does perceive things, correctly or not.

PsychoIncarnate · Aug 2, 2012

They went a little overboard with Pit, people could have just been excited about him. Or Meta Knight.

Could have also been people wanting Wario Land Wario instead of Warioware Wario

deuxhero · Aug 2, 2012

Predict 4.1 for Shulk.

Claire Diviner · Aug 2, 2012

For Starfy:

Want - 3.0
Likelihood - 2.6

As for my want, I really don't have any opinion on Starfy, so my vote is dead center. As for likelihood, I don't know if Starfy is a big hit in Japan, but as far as I know, he lost relevance as a potential Smash Bros. player, though the reason my vote isn't lower is because things like that has never stopped Nintendo before (Game & Watch is a good example of this), and I can see Starfy with a unique enough moveset. Also, perhaps adding Starfy will give a sudden increase in interest among gamers in the Starfy series as Marth and Roy did for Fire Emblem when they debuted in Melee.

I nominate Rosalina x5

Phaazoid · Aug 2, 2012

Starfy, starfy, starfy

want - 2.0
likelihood - 2.0

I feel like sakurai made a joke out of this character as an assist trophy - it doesn't fight. I also believe he put some characters as assist trophies that he never expects to be playable - devil, the city guy, ect.

I don't really care either way if he gets in, but I'd rather some other characters, like Ray MK, or Issac. so a little less than half for want.

prediction for shulk - 3.6

3x shy guy votes
2x ray MK votes

Deleted member · Aug 2, 2012

Starfy

With some work, Starfy can be made with great uniqueness and can fit in pretty well. The underwater battle mechanic may also come off as interesting and maybe make Starfy a more appealing choice. The biggest obstacle to Starfy's inclusion is of course, Sakurai himself, and this one is what almost certainly kills his chances of being in any Smash game.

The thing about Sakurai and Starfy is that in order for Starfy to be promoted to playable status, he needs to be seen as worthy in Sakurai's eyes as Sakurai is everything in a decision on who gets in. In which case, Starfy gets off to a very bad image.

People here claim that Starfy's AT status means nothing to him, as a matter of fact, I have even seen people claim that it was a good thing as it shows that Starfy wasn't forgotten. The problem being is that Starfy's AT status definitely cuts hard into his odds of getting in. It shows that Sakurai doesn't see his potentials as a fighter, doesn't see why he could fit in, and doesn't see why Starfy is a worthy choice.

It also hurts Starfy's popularity among the Smash community severely. Most people consider Starfy to be a joke of a character, given that they don't know better about him and aren't willing to consider how Starfy can benefit the game. This image will remain in the community for the rest of the Smash series, barring of course Starfy is made playable in Smash.

Starfy technically does fufill the second, third, and fourth criteria. The first is debatable, but it can go either way. But we're not the ones deciding the roster. Sakurai decides the roster and to him, Starfy fails all four criteria, giving him absolutely awful odds.

lobotheduck21 · Aug 2, 2012

Want: 3 I liked his game and his moves were cool, but that's about it

Likelyhood: 2 he's got a few good things, but more bad. Such as his popularity, and Sakurai not seeing his potential

Shulk prediction 3.85

nominations Mr. Stevenson x 5

PsychoIncarnate · Aug 2, 2012

Want: 2
Likelihood: 3

Don't believe he's going to be a character, but at least we know Sakurai knows he exists. Never played his game, so I don't know much about him.

People are looking at other AT's (Little Mac) and saying they could be characters, don't see why Starfy being an AT is any different from them. Except support

Shulk prediction: 3.8

Nominations: Tom Nook x2, Sukapon x3

Deleted member · Aug 2, 2012

The day dawn on Starfy. He looked up at the stars, knowing that when he died, he would go and see the rest of them and enjoy life in harmony. He looked up not because he was happy. He looked up because the audience treated him like scrapped as tear flowed down his eyes. The sense of rejection, it hurts and this rejection has caused Starfy to break down.

When the final score was revealed, Starfy was revealed to have done mediocre. Only a mere 2.32 as his final score. His want score wasn't much better, receiving only a 2.74.

Many of the audience booed him out, which made Starfy shed many tears. He tried to run away from all of this madness, but it could not happen. A person even threw a robot at him and when Starfy missed, he was knocked out cold blood. The majority of the audience laughed at Starfy's inability to get up whereas his few fans were in tears.

Out of nowhere, Shulk picked Starfy up and gave him to Astro, asking him to return him where he came from. Astro agreed and walked Starfy out of the stadium. Shulk then wield his Monado, anticipating what would happen within the stadium and was curious about how he would be received in likelihood and want to be in Smash 4, after saving a world.

lobotheduck21 out in all of this chaos was awarded five more nominations. He was the only one that didn't really care about Starfy anyway, positively or negatively, so neutrality served him well.

Day Twelve has began! Today, you are rating Shulk and predicting that Tom Nook gets tomorrow. Day ends early morning August 4th, 2012.

For want, I'll side into neutral with a 2.5. Currently don't care for his inclusion, but if he were to be playable, I could be wrong. I will wait before I give my likelihood rating.

Also nominating Mega Man, Toad, Mii, Lucario, and Ghirahim.

Mario & Sonic Guy · Aug 2, 2012

I'm not too familiar with Shulk, so I don't have a score for him.

Nominations
1: Bowser Jr.
2: Little Mac
3: Rosalina
4: Zoroark
5: Samurai Goroh

Robert of Normandy · Aug 2, 2012

Damn, between this and Chibi-Robo, this thread is getting legitimately depressing. Who the hell threw that robot? Wait, was the robot Chibi-Robo?

So anyway, Shulk.

Want: 3
Haven't really played Xenoblade, but he seems like a pretty cool guy and could definatley have an interesting moveset.

Likelihood: 4
He seems pretty popular. The only thing that would make him unlikely is that he's only been in one game, but that hasn't stopped some other characters.

Nominations
Black Shadow x5

Deleted member · Aug 2, 2012

Shulk:
Want: 2.5
Yet ANOTHER character that I don't care that much about either way.

Likelihood: 4
Sakurai lamented on how there weren't that many newer series to include in Brawl, and Xenoblade Chronicles kind of made a name for itself. Not only has it done exceptionally well in Japan and Europe to warrant a release in America, it has done well there too. And to top it off, it's a 1st Party title for Nintendo.
Shulk is also a decently (if not great, I don't remember) requested character in Japan, and somewhat outside it as well.

A major drawback is the fact that it is only one game, and the only series to be represented in Smash that only has one game is Ice Climber, and the Climbers were added under a special circumstance. I honestly don't know what that would mean for Shulk, but I'm confident that Xenoblade will be getting some representation even if Shulk doesn't make the cut.

tube147 · Aug 2, 2012

My votes are pichu, roy, tails, and silver

yani · Aug 2, 2012

Ahh finally Shulk's turn!

Want: 5
Likelihood: 4

Xenoblade is easily one of the best games on the Wii. It would be a sin for Sakurai to neglect the fantastic content he can pull from this game to use for Smash. With that in mind, Xenoblade does have characters that can fit the fighting role (unlike AC/nintendogs according to Sakurai) so I think this give Shulk a really good shot since he's the main protagonist of the game. He's also a character with personality and a unique sword, making him a really good inclusion to the Nintendo universe.

Sukapon x 5

Deleted member · Aug 2, 2012

tube147 said:
My votes are pichu, roy, tails, and silver

Okay then. Just remember to read the OP before you vote for Shulk likelihood/want.

Phaazoid · Aug 2, 2012

You know, originally I was planning on giving this guy a 2 in want, but it's gone up to 3. I'm really liking him more the more I read about his game. gonna have to get it sometime.

As for likelihood, I'm going with 3.5. Idk if he really has that much of a chance, not being as recognized a name as some characters, but then again, look at lucas and pit xD

5x votes for... shy guy lol

and a 1.0 prediction for anna

Jhonnykiller45 · Aug 2, 2012

Shulk:
Want: 2.5
Likelihood: 2.5

The only thing really going for him is the immense popularity of Xenoblade Chronicles.
We'll only have to see if Sakurai thinks Shulk is deserving enough to actually give him something.

Nominations
Waluigi x3
Black Shadow
Toad

BKupa666 · Aug 2, 2012

Hoo boy.

Want: 0.5
Likelihood: 3.25

I'll come right out of the gate and say that I think Shulk may be the blandest possible newcomer that has a reasonable shot at becoming playable. I have seen a handful of movesets for him that display his Monado abilities, but have yet to see anything appealing about said abilities that would make him desirable as a potential newcomer. Judging by Xenoblade's crazy popularity and eventual overseas release, I do believe he works well in the context of a fantastic RPG (that I have not yet played) that may offer great content for stages and music, but not in the context of a game full of generally interesting Nintendo All-Stars.

Shulk is currently, in my opinion, a reasonable middle-of-the-road pick for a misc. series. Though the vast majority of his fans seem to be fans of Xenoblade, rather than fans of Shulk himself, the sheer noise of this fanbase is definitely enough to get him noticed by Sakurai. According to Toise, he was also mentioned multiple times on various Japanese sites alongside K. Rool and Miis, so there's that as well. I don't even think Isaac is in competition with him, since the similarities between them are as shallow as they are between Marth and Ike.

Really, the determining factor for Shulk's chances are how 'deserving' Sakurai sees Xenoblade to be; in other words, does he categorize it as a notable series (or game) like he did for Pikmin and Animal Crossing in Brawl, or not, leading to it being represented with lesser content. While his viewpoint on series like Golden Sun and Legendary Starfy may have changed Brawl due to new installments, this will be his first opportunity to handle Xenoblade as a series due to its recency. As with the scores I gave Mewtwo and Palutena, I am giving Shulk a reasonable score based on his clear pros, but not a shoo-in score, due to the factors we frankly have no idea how to account for...yet.

Nominating Little Mac x3, Bowser Jr. and Dixie x1.

Deleted member · Aug 2, 2012

Jhonnykiller45 said:
Shulk:
Want: 2.5
Likelihood: 2.5

I really don't care for him, and if anything, I think he'll be an Assist Trophy.

Nominations
Waluigi x3
Black Shadow
Toad

Might be good to explain your reasoning if you want this vote to count.

N3ON · Aug 2, 2012

Plastered up as the posterboy for Rainfall, Shulk has gained quite a large fanbase and is a very popular pick for Smash, and honestly I think it's deserved. Xenoblade was fantastic and Shulk would be IMO very fun to play as in Smash with all the different powers of the Monado.

Not to say that he didn't have popularity before Rainfall, when I was reading through the Japanese sites yesterday, Shulk was quite a popular pick as well, probably even more than he is here.

However, Sakurai might not want to include someone so soon out of the gate, and even though Xenoblade was awesome, it might not be enough for Sakurai to warrant a playable rep yet. Honestly though, now seems like an opportune moment to add Shulk, while he is riding the success and popularity of his game in pretty much every region.

Want: 4.4
Likelihood: 3.9

Nomz:
x3 Krystal
x2 Zoroark

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