Rate And Discuss Their Chances: Closed

So the game is to wait a few days until someone worthwhile pops up to be judged. May as well get all the fun stuff first and not bother with the no-hopers at all.

BKupa666 said:

Analyzing the no-hopers at all is essentially a haphazard way to extend the game a bit longer. It's a matter of preference, I suppose.

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The fact that we will eventually be getting into those with no hopes for Smash is why I am allowing revotes for character who's last voting period was a month ago (which so far, no one falls into). If all we're stuck with are characters with no chance for Smash without the option to revisit characters that do have a chance, this game is going to die from a lack of interest. Re-voting basically serves a purpose to somewhat meaningfully extend the life of the game until Smash 4 gets a trailer (assuming of course, we have to wait until E3 2013. Hopefully, Starphoenix's surprise prediction for September comes true).

little mac? Idk. hard to tell. I mean, they can't make all the assist trophies playable. However, this guy is literally a brawler, I can see a great physical move oriented moveset, maybe playing a little similar to mario. He's definitely interesting, a retro character that sakurai favors, and he's already been revived.

For want, I'm going with 3, I like him, but I like others a lot more.
For likelihood, I'm going with 3 as well, I think he has a fair chance, but he might end up assist trophy again, idk.

5 votes Ray MK

I think most people who vote a 0 for likeliness don't exactly know the character situation. Nobody would actually take time to nominate a worthless character. Jigglover kept doing plusle and minun, while I hate there guts and gave them a 0 I found afterwards that the two were planned for brawl as a pichu replacement but were dropped for one reason or another. Having them being considered by Sakurai in the previous game with as high possibility as they said they did noone should have voted them a 0 in likeliness. Same with lloyd. If you truly believe that there is a 100% chance you would bet your life that Yo****o couldn't persuade Sakurai then go ahead with 0, but I think even voting a 1 on him was low for the low side. The only person who got 0's I can't speak for is Tom Nook.... thats just a stupid choice imo.

kisamefishfries said:

I think most people who vote a 0 for likeliness don't exactly know the character situation. Nobody would actually take time to nominate a worthless character. Jigglover kept doing plusle and minun, while I hate there guts and gave them a 0 I found afterwards that the two were planned for brawl as a pichu replacement but were dropped for one reason or another. Having them being considered by Sakurai in the previous game with as high possibility as they said they did noone should have voted them a 0 in likeliness. Same with lloyd. If you truly believe that there is a 100% chance you would bet your life that Yo****o couldn't persuade Sakurai then go ahead with 0, but I think even voting a 1 on him was low for the low side. The only person who got 0's I can't speak for is Tom Nook.... thats just a stupid choice imo.

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It hasn't been proven that Plusle & Minun were planned for Brawl.

All that hard work Little Mac had done for a Smash 4 playable appearance and the payment it has did not reveal it's fruit of labor today. However, it did give Little Mac a sense of hope, after dreaming all those times to be playable.

Little Mac 18th birthday present was a very enjoyable one indeed. He had large support from fans as well as people feeling that he had good odds of being in. The score was revealed as a 3.8 in likelihood and a 3.55 in want, so Little Mac clearly did good in these categories. Opossum and Venus of the Desert Bloom engaged in a heated battle that left Venus with being in defeat after realizing that he predicted his score after Opossum, despite both being about the same in how close they were to Little Mac. Opossum, being the sneaky quick opossum he was, won five more nominations. Clearly, this guy was a genius.

Little Mac was celebrated all the way back home. Fans cheered him on and followed him as he left the stadium.

Meanwhile, a boy with a baseball bat was walking to the stadium. He was wearing a yellow and blue shirt with short pants and a baseball cap turned sideways. It was a familiar character, yet something did not feel right.

Everyone watched the boy. He lowered the baseball to his left side and then revealed to the audience that it was a poser.

It was the Pokemon Zoroark, the Master of Illusion. He was uninvited to this, but determined to prove his strength, he went into disguise of a character that was suppose to go up next. Many fans were excited, but some were shocked, asking where was that boy? He was supposed to be up here.

Up until now. Now it was Zoroark's grandest opportunity to be judged. He was the "in" thing for the 5th generation, but would it be enough? Only time will tell.

Day Nineteen has began! Zoroark is up today with Ness being predicted tomorrow. You have until 11:10 PM CST for this day.

Wait a minute, Zoroark was Youngster Joey?

Anyways:

Want: 3.5
I kind of want Zoroark, but at the same time, I don't really care for any 5th Gen. The only Pokemon I'm concerned with is Mewtwo. And even then, I toss between Zoroark, Genesect, and as of recent, Victini (ironic).

Likelihood: 3
For one, Zoroark has competition within it's own Generation, and none are a sure bet at this time.
Two, there is the possibility that we don't even GET a 5th Gen. I mean, Sakurai didn't find any of the popular 2nd Gens to be viable during Melee's time (which included Pokemon viable to fans, such as Heracross and Scizor as well as the ones not really viable like Togepi and Lugia.), and Pichu was only included to boost the Roster as a clone of Pikachu and be Smash's joke character (which Sakurai previously associated Jigglypuff with). Pichu's inclusion had nothing to do with being a 2nd Gen.
Come Brawl, of the newer Pokemon that had been shown, none of the popular 3rd Gen were all that viable. Come 4th Gen, we finally get a new Pokemon that is not only viable, but is highly marketable. That Pokemon was Lucario, who is still marketable today.
With 5th Gen, Sakurai could find Zoroark not viable due to not being able to find a way to properly execute its Illusion capability, one of Zoroark's signatures. With that, there's also the issue that he may not find other popular ones like Victini viable either.
But among 5th Gens, Zoroark stands with great chances with (in my eyes at least) Genesect and Victini as equal rivals.

Zoroark

To many people in the Smash community, he is seen as one of the most likely newcomers, if not a shoe-in for this game, but to me, he is one of the most difficult characters to rate because he's the characters I've fluctuated the most with in regards to likelihood. So let's get into it.

If there were to be a Pokemon newcomer, Zoroark certainly has a good shot of being that rep. He's the mascot of the 5th gen and he is a popular Pokemon (as he did make the Top 100 list, thought below Lucario and Mewtwo). Not to mention there is a decent fan base for him for Smash (yes there are a lot of people who simply expect him despite not wanting him, but the fan base is noticeable as well, so...).

The thing about Zoroark that makes him iffy is this question; will Pokemon get a newcomer? And this will be his biggest obstacle (along with every potential newcomer from the Pokemon series), because a Pokemon newcomer is far from the guarantee people make it out to be.

If we get a Pokemon newcomer, it's going to be because the Pokemon Company pushes for it. I seriously doubt Sakurai will go to the Pokemon company to request a newcomer, especially when people are clamoring for Mewtwo's and Lucario's return, which will likely be a larger priority for him. If it were up to Sakurai, all he would likely do is keep the Brawl's roster and add Mewtwo.

Now people will argue that the Pokemon Company will push for a newcomer in the next game and they probably will suggest the idea of a Pokemon newcomer to Sakurai. However, we don't even know why they pressured Lucario in the first place. I doubt he got in because he would represent the latest generation. Look at how incredibly popular Lucario was. He was one of the very most popular Pokemon at the time and he very heavily requested for this game. This probably was why there was so much pressure to add Lucario into the game, because of his massive popularity.

And that is Zoroark's biggest problem. He's not this gen's Lucario because while popular, he has not emulated the impact Lucario has made. Because of this, there is no guarantee that the Pokemon Company will make a push for him, There's also potential competition with Genesect or a 6th gen mascot to deal with, but those are minor in comparison to what I just described.

I'll give Zoroark a 2 in likelihood. Certainly has a fair shot at the roster, but I feel his odds are overstated.

However, I will state that I do support the idea of having Mewtwo, Lucario, and Zoroark all on the roster. All have great potentials to be great characters and I do like all three of them for separate reasons. Zoroark's potentials really gains my interest because he would introduce a new type to the game, which is always nice. Plus he has Illusion, which if implemented (assuming playable status), would be fantastic. Still wish his design wasn't ugly. I give him a 4 in want.

Predicting that Ness gets a 4.81 in likelihood.

GoldenYuiitusin said:

Wait a minute, Zoroark was Youngster Joey?

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Nope, but read into it. You'll realize that he was obvious all along.

All I know is that today's result is going to be interesting.

Err, I would like to point out that it is unknown whether Zoroark is the mascot or not.
It isn't so obvious, and more signs point to Vicitni being the intended mascot.

I feel that Zoroark is the most likely Pokemon to be used to represent the fifth gen, however I don't believe he is as much a lock for his gen as Lucario was, even if he is the most likely.

Even if he is the choice 5th gen rep, there is still a chance that a 5th gen won't be represented. If Game Freak does not request a rep from the newest generation (or if the 5th gen is no longer the newest gen), Sakurai might feel content that re-adding Mewtwo and keeping the other four is a sufficient way to represent Pokemon, and I would be hard-pressed to argue against that. Or, like I said above, 5th gen might not be the newest gen by the time of SSB4's release (though I wouldn't say that was an overly likely possibility) in which case I believe Zoroark and all of the 5th gen will follow the 3rd gen in not getting a rep.

And while Zoroark does have a large fanbase compared to other Pokemon, it isn't as large as either Lucario's or Mewtwo's. However, compared to other gen 5 Pokemon, Zoroark does hold a good deal of popularity and requests for playability.

I think it mostly comes down to Game Freak pushing for his inclusion. Otherwise, while he does have merits, I believe that they really don't outweigh the Pokemon that have already been playable. However, I do think that the chances of Game Freak once again wanting a rep from their newest gen is quite good, and Zoroark would be the first choice.

Personally I would love to have Mewtwo, Lucario, and Zoroark. I like all three of them much more than Jigglypuff or the Trainer.

Want: 4.3 (he's my most wanted potential Pokemon newcomer)
Likelihood: 3.5

Nomz:
x5 Krystal

Predicting Ness gets a 4.85.

Want: 2.5
Likeliness: 2.75

She's (remember the movie?) kinda cool I guess. I'll go into greater detail when I feel like it or if I feel someone's using a bad argument.

Likelihood: 0
Zoroark has precisely ONE merit for inclusion: Being the first generation 5 Pokemon revealed and thus "advertising". This however means NOTHING when this game will take 2/3 years and has just started development. We will see the first signs of Generation 6 next year (gens last 4 years, except 2 which was 3, and new Pokemon are shown a year before the next gen's release), and Zoroark will lose EVERYTHING of merit.
Also Lucario's filename and Sakurai's statements say he was chosen after everyone else by Gamefreak.

Want: 0
See above
Nominate: Yoshimitsu x5

@ deuxhero
You do realize that the character roster will likely be finalized or near finalized by this time next year, right=??? That is years before any Gen VI Pokémon will be finalized.

My opinion(s) on Zoroark, and how I perceive Zoroark: As for Zoroark, well, I don't see any reason not to include Zoroark, other than Zoroark being too similar to Mewtwo and Lucario body-wise and potentially moveset-wise (as well as the train of thought of Zoroark getting in over Mewtwo and Lucario, which shouldn't happen). Zoroark, despite a similar build, has a certain aggressiveness to it that could make it a unique fighter in smash bros. Given the lack of "recent" and "modern" characters who could be in smash bros (aside from Shulk and maybe Miis), he would fit in smash bros. really well. Plus, after all of the "big name" 1st/2nd party characters are gone, who is nearly as big or popular as Zoroark is left (with as much moveset potential)=??? Not many characters.

My analysis of Zoroark's chances: Because of these reasons, and the fact that Sakurai needs "new" characters (that were created in the last decade) to balance with the "retro" characters, Zoroark would fit easily in smash bros. Given that Pokémon always has one super popular addition, and that currently Zoroark is the clear front-runner and most wanted Pokémon for Smash Bros. with no equal, it would be foolish to currently bet against Zoroark (unless Genesect or some strange new Pokémon catches a fan base fire, or Sakurai really takes a liking to such a new Pokémon).

Want: 2.9
Likelihood: 4

I predict Ness will get a 4.75 likelihood.
I nominate Mega Man (x5). There are many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many reasons to support the blue bomber! These are just the reasons that involve music! (yeah music as propaganda!)

Zoroark is the face of assumption. How can you state that he's comfirmed or is more possible than ANY Pokemon just because of how he lines up with Mewtwo and Lucario (Body figure, movie, etc.)?

Want: 0
Likeliness: 2.25

MelMoe said:

It hasn't been proven that Plusle & Minun were planned for Brawl.

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It hasn't actually been proven that Roy from FE was planned from Brawl, easily could have been Roy Campbell from metal gear solid off the top of my head.


Anyway, Zoroark is my 2nd-most wanted newcomer (I think you know who my first is) so I'm giving him a 4.75 in want.

There have been many, many statements here about Zoroark, all are good points (and Golden, Lucario was the first 4th gen released and had his own movie, Zoroark was the same for gen 5, it seems like his place as the gen 5 mascot is pretty clear to be true) but I think that Gamefreak is going to push for a gen 5 pokemon, and Zoroark's the best bet. I'd like to add, like Jhonknight, that the roster for this will likely be finalised this time next year since Sakurai has stated he wants to get that done as one of the first things for SSB4, BEFORE a gen 6 pokemon is finalised, so the more likely thing would be to question anything to do with gen 6 making it in (except probably music and/or stickers.)
Oops, forgot a likelihood score, just the arguments anyway, 4.23.

Hmm...

Want: 1.5
Likeliness: 3

There are lots of other characters I want more, so that's why the want score is so low. I do think that he's got a decent shot at getting in, but I think his chances are overestimated due to Lucario's inclusion, and people thinking that Zoroark will be the follow-up. I feel like with the changing face of the Pokemon series, we're bound for a newcomer (and possibly a cut or two). There's so many good options though that it's really a toss-up for who gets the spots. As everyone seems to be stating, Zoroark doesn't have nearly the popularity of Lucario.

I nominate Lyndis x5.

Want: 2 Likelihood: 3

He's expected, be he isn't that interesting. He might be the tsang tsung, however you spell it, of this game. But really, I don't expect them to go much into his illusion abilities.

Besides, there is a difference between illusions and changing shape.

Nominate: Sukapon x2, Mike Jones x3

Prediction for Ness: Really? We're really doing Ness? One of the original 12? I REALLY want to see why someone is going to predict him not returning for whatever reason.

Likelihood: 2.52 Want: 3

I can't really say much about Zoroark, since I haven't played a Pokemon game since Fire Red, but the character has a lot of interesting traits and features that I feel after reading a bit on him I do not mind having in Smash. I welcome him if he get's in, at least he seems to be relevant to series. No gripes from me.

Honestly if Ness gets below a 4.5 I'll feel shocked that people still think he'll leave after he and Lucas coexisted.

Zoroark time! :D

Want: 3.8 I like him/her quite a bit, and am really interested in seeing how Illusion is used.


Likelihood: 3.5 Like SSBF said, her main competition is the Pokemon Company/Game Freak (I forgot which one made the decisions...). Clearly, there is more support for Mewtwo and Lucario's return than a Gen V newcomer from what I've seen. That being said, if they were to push for all three, I feel Zoroark would be the Gen V they'd push for. Plus, instead of always being looked as a "Lucario expy" by some doubters, she's really the antithesis of Lucario: harsh, tricky and feral as compared to Lucario's nimble, noble, and collected.


Prediction for Ness: 4.9. I have some faith left in humanity.

AGAIN?!? I won again? Awesome. In that case, x5 Toad, x3 Krom, x2 Ghirahim

Let's see. For Zoroark:

Want: 3.5 - I like Zoroark enough to want to see him playable. On top of that, the fact that it's a Pokémon that relies on illusions can warrant a potentially interesting and unique moveset and playstyle.

Likelihood: 3.7 - Honestly, everything I want to say has already been said by Opossum.

My prediction for Ness is 5. The reason I say this is because Ness has appeared in the original Smash 64. In Melee, there were talks about replacing him with Lucas, but instead, they kept Ness and cut the Lucas idea since Mother 3 was being pushed back at the time. Then Brawl came out, and not only did Lucas appear, but Ness also reprised his role as a playable character. The fact that all other Smash 64 veterans appeared alongside Ness in both Melee and Brawl has me convinced that in all subsequent Smash Bros. games, all of the original 12 Smash 64 fighters (Ness included) will be made playable. Honestly, I'd be shocked if Ness isn't made playable in Smash 4.

Johnknight1 said:

@ deuxhero
You do realize that the character roster will likely be finalized or near finalized by this time next year, right=??? That is years before any Gen VI Pokémon will be finalized.

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When did I say a gen 6 Pokemon would get in? I said a gen 5 Pokemon wouldn't get in on the "merit" of being "new". Also Gamefreak choose Lucario from a placeholder of a new Pokemon going by Sakurai's comments and his file name.

jigglover said:

It hasn't actually been proven that Roy from FE was planned from Brawl, easily could have been Roy Campbell from metal gear solid off the top of my head.

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Anyone who thinks the Roy file was for anyone other than Roy from FE, who was in Smash already, needs help.
Why would Roy Campbell of all people be a character?
Or what, Roy Koopa, A random Koopaling?

Logic and common sense is fleeting these days...

deuxhero said:

When did I say a gen 6 Pokemon would get in? I said a gen 5 Pokemon wouldn't get in on the "merit" of being "new". Also Gamefreak choose Lucario from a placeholder of a new Pokemon going by Sakurai's comments and his file name.

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I don't know what you're talking about. Lucario's file name is Lucario. The only character with an awkward filename is "Pra_Mai".

deuxhero said:

Likelihood: 0
Zoroark has precisely ONE merit for inclusion: Being the first generation 5 Pokemon revealed and thus "advertising". This however means NOTHING when this game will take 2/3 years and has just started development. We will see the first signs of Generation 6 next year (gens last 4 years, except 2 which was 3, and new Pokemon are shown a year before the next gen's release), and Zoroark will lose EVERYTHING of merit.
Also Lucario's filename and Sakurai's statements say he was chosen after everyone else by Gamefreak.

Want: 0
See above
Nominate: Yoshimitsu x5

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I do agree on Gen 6 being potential competition (I'll go in depth as to why I feel like it if people want to know), but that doesn't ruin the merit of Zoroark being in Smash. He'll still be popular and his fans will continue to support him.

@Johnknight1: Looks like I've got lots of Mega Man music to add after I get back from work.

@Venus: Yeah, deuxhero's vote is incredibly biased. I want to see him attack all positive arguments against Zoroark if he feels such a bad rating is justified.

Want: 0
Likelihood: 2

I'll go into reasoning later. Don't feel like doing it at the moment.

Im not allowed to put a negative want am I?
Anyways
Want: 0 (Im getting sick of these guys, mewtwo was cool but im not in favor of a new one every game)
likeliness: 4 Sadly I think this guy is a shoe-in.

oh yeah!
nominations
Paper Mario x5

Super Smash Bros. Fan said:

@Johnknight1: Looks like I've got lots of Mega Man music to add after I get back from work.

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You should see my large amount of Mega Man (classic) music in the Music Thread! I got like a hundred songs!

PsychoIncarnate said:

Prediction for Ness: Really? We're really doing Ness? One of the original 12? I REALLY want to see why someone is going to predict him not returning for whatever reason.

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So far, several of the original 12 and Melee 10/22 (that were in both Melee and Brawl) have been voted on.

There are still those Ness "haters" from the pre-Brawl days. I don't know how you could hate anyone/anything, especially Ness, from EarthBound. Say "FUZZY PICKLES!"

Zoroarc is fresh and new and looks pretty badass. No complaints about it getting in.

Gonna give it a 4 in want.

I wonder how much longer Pokemon from a generation hardly any 10 year olds remember will stay in smash bros. I mean ya gotta have Jiggs, Pika and Charizard because they were staples of the anime. But you won't see them in any of the new pokemon games. And Nintendo loves to appeal to the kids.

So a 2.5 in likelihood.

It's odd Ness made it in smash bros at all. I mean he only stars in one game, so I can understand why he wasn't on this threads list of guaranteed characters, Not having any recent games. But every smasher has come to know and love the little telekinetic freak who has an affinity for beating animals to death with a baseball bat. Plus there WILL be rage if he suddenly disappears in SM4SH. Especially since Lucas is such a wuss. A powerful PK wielder with Jimmy Neutron hair, but a wuss.
So Ima predict a 4.87 for Ness.

Nominating...

Megaman x5

Zoroark
Want: 3

Don't really hate or love him(her? it?). The problem is with her defining trait- the illusion ability which might either end up being useless or weird and gimmicky. But she's really the only Gen V Pokemon I could see being playable.

Likelihood: 3.5
She's basically the Gen V "mascot", so she seems kinda popular.

Let me try my hand at this whole prediction thing:
Ness: 4

Nominations:
Ganondorf x5

Dakota Bones

When scrolling through the comments, your icon looks very similar to star phoenix's. Thought it's obvious when seen directly.

I thought star had a split personality where he both loved and hated zozoark

Zoroark:
Want- 3
Likelihood- 3.45

Not gonna lie, his chances are very good at this point due to him being the 'mascot' of the 5th Gen, and the Pokémon Company is probably going to do the same thing of what they did with Lucario for Brawl.
Although, Zoroark may not be in because of other Pokémon reps taking his place, such as Mewtwo.

Nominations
Ganondorf x3
Black Shadow x2

Prediction for Ness- 4.5, Ness isn't going anywhere.

PsychoIncarnate said:

Dakota Bones

When scrolling through the comments, your icon looks very similar to star phoenix's. Thought it's obvious when seen directly.

I thought star had a split personality where he both loved and hated zozoark

Click to expand...

I knew I wasn't the only one who thought that...

Nominations

IceClimbers x5

Voting & Discussing

Zoroark

Personal Bias: 2.5
Likelihood: 3.34

I don't really care about any new pokemon except for the return of Mewtwo. I would enjoy a ravenous playstyle for Zoroark similar to Wolf's.

I don't need to explain my reasoning as it has pretty much been covered. She's a popular 5th gen, first 5th revealed, competition with other popular 5th gen & future 6th gen pokemon.

Prediction

Ness: 4.55

Want: 0, What, a non legendary I have to get from an event, screw that

Likelyhood : 3 competition from gen 5, not to mention her ability would be hard to implament

Ness prediction 4.25

nominations: Ray (Custom Robo) x 10

Zoroark prediction - 4.7
I really think this pokemon has a high chance, lucario was the face of gen 4 and wasn't legendary, this is the face of gen 5. I can see Zoroark and Mewtwo, or Zoroark and Lucario, but probably not all three. I only care about PT anyways xD
Want - 3. Could be cool. idk. Charizard, my fav pokemon, is in, that's all that matters

Ness prediction - 4.7 because people are stupid and will vote less than 5. Even though he's a smash 64 vet.

5 votes Ray MK

Want: 4.0
I like Zoroark. Cool Pokemon in general. I especially want it in so that the roster is a little more diverse in terms of generations. I also think that Illusion could be implemented interestingly. However if Zoroark gets in then that makes Genesect's chances EVEN LOWER than they already are.
IF Gen5 is getting a rep, then I think that Zoroark is the most likely. "IF" being the key word. It all depends when the completed roster was (will be) decided on. Gen5 is done, unfortunately (in terms of main-series games), as Gamefreak has made it clear that they're trying to get the main series onto the 3DS as soon as possible with Gen6. It all depends on which generation Gamefreak wants advertised. Sakuria still has input, but he may be indifferent on who gets in, so unless Gamefreak still wants to market Gen5, or if Sakuria actually wants Zoroark in the game, I think it's chances are, while not terrible, not extremely good. 3.4 in likeliness

Prediction: 4.82

Nominations:
Toad x4
Bowser Jr. x1

I have some time, so I'll comment on some things in regards to today's topic:

If the Pokemon Company are going to promote a Pokemon, they're going to promote the 6th gen Pokemon mascot, Given that Smash 4 releases in late 2014, the 6th gen will be out by around that time, so it'd be pointless to advertise the 5th gen when we're already in the next generation.

However, given that there's no evidence that the Pokemon Company has ever put in a Pokemon for promotion purposes, it isn't nearly as big of a detraction as most would think as Zoroark's merits will still exist regardless of whenever or not we are in the 5th gen. A potential Pokemon newcomer will come down to these question; is the Pokemon popular enough for a spot and would it make a good addition outside of "latest gen rep"? The Pokemon Company and Sakurai will want Pokemons who's popularity will last outside of their generation. Zoroark may or may not fulfill that, but there's no way to tell whenever or not a 6th gen can do such a thing. Which is why, for now, Zoroark is the most likely Pokemon newcomer.

shrooby said:

Gen5 is done, unfortunately (in terms of main-series games), as Gamefreak has made it clear that they're trying to get the main series onto the 3DS as soon as possible with Gen6.

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They actually stated this? Kind of not surprised here, especially given how early Genesect was revealed. This would confirm my believe that a Gen 5 Pokemon is not getting in by promotion purposes, but rather if they merit a spot with their accomplishment.