Zodiac
Smash Master
- Joined
- Aug 10, 2005
- Messages
- 3,557
I just meant super smash brother melee online, cause, even though your project is called SSBMO ultimately its all melee online. I'll try add dolphin or client in front of it from now on.
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Melee Netplay - The Future is Now (New and improved!)
- Thread starter Makkun
- Start date
- Status
A new release of dolphin-ssbm has arrived, build 815.
Download: win32 | x64
Note: these builds STILL do not write to memory cards.
Changes:
Linux and Mac OS X builds are not ready yet... sorry. Linux builds may possibly come. Mac OS X builds are further away because of the fact that I have no working Mac OS X setup.
Download: win32 | x64
Note: these builds STILL do not write to memory cards.
Changes:
- Some options are now synchronized with the host when you join a match (DSP mode, DSP on thread, Dual Core, and FPS Hack)
- Added 30 FPS hack. This works with Melee and some other games, but will mess up some games.
- Default settings have changed: The recommended memory card is now included with the download. Dual core is off by default. Audio is disabled by default. The FPS hack is enabled by default. These settings SHOULD be optimal for syncing and speed; you may prefer enabling LLE audio, but this requires the DSP ROM files for all players. Dual core will also work between some players, so if performance is an issue, you can change that.
- The title bar now displays different text to differentiate between regular Dolphin builds.
Linux and Mac OS X builds are not ready yet... sorry. Linux builds may possibly come. Mac OS X builds are further away because of the fact that I have no working Mac OS X setup.
MikeHaggarTHAKJB
Smash Master
People who have macs deserved to be punished for their *********** anyway.
By the way, a GREAT way to enhance performance would be if someone made a hacked version of melee with severly gimped graphics. Lower resolution textures ofc, no shadows perhaps, etc.
By the way, a GREAT way to enhance performance would be if someone made a hacked version of melee with severly gimped graphics. Lower resolution textures ofc, no shadows perhaps, etc.
I don't know if this is a great attitude to approach things. It's probably best if we keep our opinions about OSes/brands of computers to ourselves. I'm not exactly a raving fan of Windows, myself.
Of course, that's a message to everyone reading.
The bottleneck is happening on the CPU side, so it does not usually make much of a difference. LLE DSP, for example, can cause CPU spikes hard enough to slow down an overclocked Core i7.
Reducing the number of polygons might possibly help, but that's complicated and there will be diminishing returns...
May I ask what the bolded means? Is it that the host decides which of those settings are in use? For example the host has dual core on, but the guy who connects has it set to off, but since the host uses it, the connected player's emulator is going to use it as well?
I guess what I mean to ask is if those settings carry over from the host to the connected player?
MikeHaggarTHAKJB
Smash Master
I see, I have no clue on what runs on CPU and what runs on GPU in an emulator =P
Might still be helpful for people with crappy GPUs (like somebody with a high end non gaming laptop). Someone should throw this together imo, texture part should be relatively easy (i dont know about disabling shadows and other effects). Would also be kind of cool to be able to play stages like FOD on a wii/gc in teams without lag. =P
Amazing work by the way, if I ever meet you IRL you shall receive a medal signed by the mighty Mike Swaggar. This is a huge honor only deserved by the most legendary and righteous men, like Mazor. You should be proud.
I hear that some people are not happy with the 30 FPS hack. Please note that it can be disabled rather simply:
It was defaulted because I felt it would be better for people who have trouble with single core, and because dual core is known to have a lot more sync issues right now.
The next build will likely add an option for this feature, if there is opposition. There's a lot of testing the waters going on with this build.
It was defaulted because I felt it would be better for people who have trouble with single core, and because dual core is known to have a lot more sync issues right now.
Yes, that is what it means. Currently this is forced, which may not be preferable to people who have experienced synchronization even with differing settings. However, if that's the case, this build does not offer much from the last, and therefore most of those people can ignore it.
The next build will likely add an option for this feature, if there is opposition. There's a lot of testing the waters going on with this build.
Lovage
Smash Hero
LMFAO mike haggars sig quote is 10/10
MikeHaggarTHAKJB
Smash Master
perhaps leffens wisdow will make him worthy of joining the mango nation?
Jonny Westside
S4mus Fiend
Yomi-no-Kuni
Smash Lord
edited my error out, because i fixed it 
just played my first matches :D still a bit laggy, but glad to see it works.
can't host though, don't know what i'm doing wrong :/
just played my first matches :D still a bit laggy, but glad to see it works.
can't host though, don't know what i'm doing wrong :/
Gliffie
Smash Apprentice
Have you forwarded the port? If you have no idea what that is, you haven't.edited my error out, because i fixed it
just played my first matches :D still a bit laggy, but glad to see it works.
can't host though, don't know what i'm doing wrong :/
MikeHaggarTHAKJB
Smash Master
Does anyone know of a CPU that can run this game in full speed even in teams?
IMy GPU is a GTX 560ti, I'm guessing that should be enough and my CPU (AMD Phenom II X3) is the bottleneck?
IMy GPU is a GTX 560ti, I'm guessing that should be enough and my CPU (AMD Phenom II X3) is the bottleneck?
Gliffie
Smash Apprentice
The GPU is fine (and not that important with dolphin), but how fast is the CPU?
Massive
Smash Champion
Dolphin is not written for parallel processing, unfortunately. You're going to be limited by the clock speed of the individual processors in your machine since each thread can only be processed by one discrete core at a time.
WHATS YO' GIGAHERTZ AT HAGGAR?
WHATS YO' GIGAHERTZ AT HAGGAR?
MikeHaggarTHAKJB
Smash Master
Wow, that is really weird, and I'd like to say ****ty and ******** but Dolphin is so great overall I don't want to (and also I know very little about programming, perhaps it is super hard to program an emulator for dual core or something). Dual+ cores are standard these days even for cheap *** budget laptops, and soon for phones aswell.
Does anyone know if the Dolphin team are planning on changing this soon? If so I might not even need a new CPU. It runs well overall as it is.
Here's links to complete specs and benchmarks of my current CPU:
http://www.cpu-world.com/CPUs/K10/A... Edition - HDZ720WFK3DGI (HDZ720WFGIBOX).html
http://www.amd.com/us/products/desktop/processors/phenom-ii/Pages/phenom-ii-benchmarks-x3.aspx
ZeldaFreak0309
Smash Journeyman
i'm set up, who wants to play :D
is the IRC active?
is the IRC active?
KnitePhox
Smash Lord
i was thinking of putting together a theory comp build/minimal upgrade that would allow people to play in general, but for teams it might be more tough with single core.
mikehaggar, as far as cpu's go this list is amazing when considering upgrading/buying CPU's.
if you have an amd motherboard and want a better processor for melee, go with a phenom II x4 945+.
i can't recommend that someone get an amd processor when purchasing a new motherboard as well, intel is superior clock for clock, core for core for like 20$ upfront, then way cheaper later on regarding the elec bill. 95/125w vs 55w when the 55w gives better performance? lol.
the best budget cpu for this application(melee on dolphin), imo, is a ivy(only if buying a NEW CPU+motherboard) bridge i3 processor(second tier) because they are slightly over/under 125USD. to find out what motherboards are compatible with ivy bridge CPU's(socket 1155) i look at this page(IVY BRIDGE SECTION) for the chart of what's compatible. straight to the lowest priced motherboards now. the cheapest B75(budget board) motherboards are around 70USD.
so getting a pc upgrade, specifically if you have a decent GPU, hard drive, case and compatible power supply already (pretty much check for either 4 or 8pin cpu power connector), will run you about 195USD total. (i don't count RAM because 4GB of 1333 DDR3 RAM[all that is required for dolpin..with plenty to spare...] is like 20USD aka CHEAP)
if someone needs a GPU, i recommend a radeon hd 7750(95USD, with no additional power requirement from power supply) or 7770(105USD with 6pin power requirement from power supply); you can look up your gpu or better one at this page.
this website is awesome for getting the cheapest parts available for USA people, dunno if it will help people OOC...sorry.
hope this post helps someone
EDIT: LMFAO @ mike haggar commentary at smasher's reunion
EDIT2: HOLY ****. wasn't 1,950USD, it was 195USD huge mistake!
aside from all that^ (lol), i just tested me + 3 computer players, ALL PIKACHU(for elec attack) on yoshi's(battlefield and FD had only slightly better results) in single core, and it was really choppy at around 37-44fps, maybe doable on single core+30fps hack?? when i put it on dual core mode, it was smooth as butter at 60fps with only minimal spikes to like 57-59 when multiple elec attacks came out. my pc specs are i5-3570k with a 7770 ghz ed at stock clocks, i think ivy i3+7750/7770 could produce very similar results
mikehaggar, as far as cpu's go this list is amazing when considering upgrading/buying CPU's.
if you have an amd motherboard and want a better processor for melee, go with a phenom II x4 945+.
i can't recommend that someone get an amd processor when purchasing a new motherboard as well, intel is superior clock for clock, core for core for like 20$ upfront, then way cheaper later on regarding the elec bill. 95/125w vs 55w when the 55w gives better performance? lol.
the best budget cpu for this application(melee on dolphin), imo, is a ivy(only if buying a NEW CPU+motherboard) bridge i3 processor(second tier) because they are slightly over/under 125USD. to find out what motherboards are compatible with ivy bridge CPU's(socket 1155) i look at this page(IVY BRIDGE SECTION) for the chart of what's compatible. straight to the lowest priced motherboards now. the cheapest B75(budget board) motherboards are around 70USD.
so getting a pc upgrade, specifically if you have a decent GPU, hard drive, case and compatible power supply already (pretty much check for either 4 or 8pin cpu power connector), will run you about 195USD total. (i don't count RAM because 4GB of 1333 DDR3 RAM[all that is required for dolpin..with plenty to spare...] is like 20USD aka CHEAP)
if someone needs a GPU, i recommend a radeon hd 7750(95USD, with no additional power requirement from power supply) or 7770(105USD with 6pin power requirement from power supply); you can look up your gpu or better one at this page.
this website is awesome for getting the cheapest parts available for USA people, dunno if it will help people OOC...sorry.
hope this post helps someone
EDIT: LMFAO @ mike haggar commentary at smasher's reunion
EDIT2: HOLY ****. wasn't 1,950USD, it was 195USD huge mistake!
aside from all that^ (lol), i just tested me + 3 computer players, ALL PIKACHU(for elec attack) on yoshi's(battlefield and FD had only slightly better results) in single core, and it was really choppy at around 37-44fps, maybe doable on single core+30fps hack?? when i put it on dual core mode, it was smooth as butter at 60fps with only minimal spikes to like 57-59 when multiple elec attacks came out. my pc specs are i5-3570k with a 7770 ghz ed at stock clocks, i think ivy i3+7750/7770 could produce very similar results
MikeHaggarTHAKJB
Smash Master
thanks mate
Well then it sure as hell doesn't sound like it's not optimized for several cores lol
ill prolly wait a few years before an upgrade, it wasnt long ago i got a new motherboard because my old one broke and upgrading to phenom II x4 doesnt feel like a big enough upgrade
Dualcore wouldn't affect sound emulation, or at least it shouldn't. LLE always takes up one core if it's on thread, which would put it on a third core if you have 3+ cores on the computer.
Also remember you can use HLE audio + no backend as a backup.
Regarding the IRC, if NMN and I are both asleep, it tends to go quiet unless people are making matches. The best thing anyone can do for help if we're not around is to PM or email us.
Any AMD PC is going to have trouble with single core emulation. But do remember, even when in Single Core, if you're doing LLE audio, it can use two cores, and if you're doing dualcore mode, it can use 3 cores. The problem is that to get those huge speedboosts, it sacrifices the ability to sync on some level. Most won't experience a desync with LLE on thread, but dualcore can very easily cause desyncs.
And I have to echo what KnitePhox says, except you can go with an even smaller graphics card. Even the dolphin page doesn't specify a card that good for playing games.
Also remember you can use HLE audio + no backend as a backup.
Regarding the IRC, if NMN and I are both asleep, it tends to go quiet unless people are making matches. The best thing anyone can do for help if we're not around is to PM or email us.
Any AMD PC is going to have trouble with single core emulation. But do remember, even when in Single Core, if you're doing LLE audio, it can use two cores, and if you're doing dualcore mode, it can use 3 cores. The problem is that to get those huge speedboosts, it sacrifices the ability to sync on some level. Most won't experience a desync with LLE on thread, but dualcore can very easily cause desyncs.
And I have to echo what KnitePhox says, except you can go with an even smaller graphics card. Even the dolphin page doesn't specify a card that good for playing games.
Fishaman P
Smash Apprentice
Might I recommend the ATI Radeon HD 5670?
You can find it for 60-80USD, it runs smooth as butter for Melee at 1080p with 4xAA, you don't need a power plug, it runs at 55C under FurMark, and you can overclock it to the max to get a free, safe 10% boost.
That being said, even the aging NVidia 8500GT works very well for Melee, even at 2xIR 2xAA.
You can find it for 60-80USD, it runs smooth as butter for Melee at 1080p with 4xAA, you don't need a power plug, it runs at 55C under FurMark, and you can overclock it to the max to get a free, safe 10% boost.
That being said, even the aging NVidia 8500GT works very well for Melee, even at 2xIR 2xAA.
I have no idea what you are talking about. It has always been that you use one software thread per hardware thread, because of course the OS can not schedule a thread for two cores at once.
Dolphin's not 'parallel' - it's 'concurrent.' Parallelism does not imply that the state may become inconsistent. The GPU and CPU, in dual core mode, run concurrently, only locking in some situations (from what I can tell, only for FIFO transfers.) The way Dolphin works now is perfectly fine. A real Gamecube would not be 100% deterministic because there are multiple different clocks you're dealing with, between CPU/GPU/etc (clock drift is in fact used as a source of hardware random on many machines.)
That's not to say it's not possible. On the contrary, I'm saying that the way Dolphin runs now is actually faster than it would be if it were careful to be predictable because that would almost certainly involve more contention.
If you run Dolphin-emu in dual core mode, you get 2 threads that run mostly without contention. That's a pretty good benefit. DSP on another thread will work as well. I don't see why you'd think it does not take advantage of the cores.
Massive
Smash Champion
My point was that hypothetically adding more processors at the same clock speed will not specifically improve performance unless you're going from 1 processor to 2. You need more operations to occur per core rather than more operations across multiple cores.
Since the game operates concurrently, as you stated, it will not spread the load of the CPU and GPU threads out over any additional cores, they will remained localized to wherever the scheduler/affinity has placed them. It is not currently feasible for the dolphin devs to go about writing a parallel processed version of dolphin due to compatibility constraints.
And yes, perfect emulation is not an easy task to accomplish, especially at the gamecube level. Even attempting to emulate the SNES perfectly is a herculean task.
Since the game operates concurrently, as you stated, it will not spread the load of the CPU and GPU threads out over any additional cores, they will remained localized to wherever the scheduler/affinity has placed them. It is not currently feasible for the dolphin devs to go about writing a parallel processed version of dolphin due to compatibility constraints.
And yes, perfect emulation is not an easy task to accomplish, especially at the gamecube level. Even attempting to emulate the SNES perfectly is a herculean task.
Actually I doubt it's possible to write a Gamecube emulator that is any more "parallel." Dolphin actually threads Netplay, GUI, CPU, GPU, DSP, DVD reading, and Memory card flushing. You can't split CPU and GPU emulation into more than 2 threads.
Going from 2 -> 4 cores will give an advantage when running LLE on Thread, though not more than HLE would. You get diminishing returns: by 4 cores, you have extra (which of course still helps, if only a little.)
bsnes/higan is not Dolphin. I'm an avid bsnes fan, but what they're trying to do is very far from the same task.
Dolphin isn't just trying to accurately emulate a Gamecube. Compatibility and performance are usually more important. They may aim for accuracy when possible, but there are cases where Dolphin simply can't emulate something accurately because it would not be plausible on today's computers. They're making an emulator that works practically for a somewhat modern console, whereas bsnes/higan accuracy currently has problem areas that only a Core i7 overclocked can power through (see: Cx4 based games.)
The exact timings don't matter because you're dealing with games written in C/C++ that, for the most part, don't rely on them. That sounds irrelevant, but there's a world of difference between machine code generated by compilers and humans.
WarlockPinch
Smash Rookie
... So will Mac get the new dolphin build as well so I can play with my PC friends, or will it continue to get the shaft?
tl;dr answer: It's complicated.
Well, Apple expects you to run their Mac OS X software on an Apple computer, and I don't own an Apple computer. My only option is to do the dubious work of creating a "hackintosh" installation in order to run Mac OS X on a non-Apple computer. It's of questionable legality, as a violation of the EULA, and a potentially dangerous operation in terms of potential data loss.
As you might expect, this is a pain in the ***. A serious pain in the ***.
...
Now, for Linux builds, that's all doable, but deployment on Linux is very fragile. On Linux, the base system libraries are not guaranteed for a given version. You can run Linux 3.6 with:
- Any reasonably modern version of glibc, and there is no backwards compatibility between versions.
- Another libc, like bionic (Android) or musl, with another entirely different userspace
- Literally any package manager, including apt/dpkg, yum/rpm, or no package manager at all.
- And pretty much any set of binary loaders. It's almost all elf, but nothing at all stops someone from using an exotic format.
Therefore, you don't really get "Linux builds." You get "Ubuntu" builds, or you get "Compatible with (most) common configuration" builds, or something to that effect.
But it's more complicated, because of package managers. Linux ain't like Windows, where you can just zip up an executable and some files and people can use it portably. Well, you CAN do this on Linux, but that doesn't mean it's a good idea. Most file managers set the cwd to $HOME when you do this, causing it to look for files in $HOME instead of the directory of the executable. Why? Because it doesn't attempt to facilitate "portable" executables, so there is always a bit of fuss involved in making them work right. You can do it, but people will not like it, it will be miserably hackish, and it's not a good long term solution.
So, you have to create packages. And packages, have to contain a lot of information. Like, dependencies - which is a good thing, don't get me wrong, but it can be complicated to deal with. And menu entries - the binary might be in the path, but that doesn't mean the user knows how to get to it. Most packages are expected to install menu entries. And there's more, like following conventions of distros, that is sometimes enforced by the package manager.
For Debian, you almost always want a repository for builds. Setting up this repository itself is not simple work. End users have to accept your key. How? Well, that's also not laid out. You can have a package they install that does the work for them, or give them a command to run to do it. There's little consensus, although the package method has been gaining popularity.
...
So you might be wondering why I typed up all of this crap just to say "It's really complicated." It's because I don't want people to feel like they're getting "shafted." I don't want to be releasing Windows-only builds, but most people are running Windows, and there's time investment required for other platforms. I feel it is necessary to explain exactly what goes into producing these packages. Linux being as flexible as it is is great for developers but bad for software deployment. Mac OS X being well-integrated with its hardware is great for end-users but bad for software deployment. Windows has the advantage of extreme backwards compatibility and stability across computers, and ubiquity (you can run Windows on a Mac, and unless you're running an exotic architecture, it's doubtful you can't run Windows on a computer running Linux.)
All of that being said, I think the next goal is to indeed begin work on getting builds for all platforms. With time, this should come. In the meantime, power users shouldn't have too much trouble manually building.
Yomi-no-Kuni
Smash Lord
Thanks for the answers, used the wrong IP (herpderp...)
now smash runs, but my controller still doesn't... i hate computers xD
now smash runs, but my controller still doesn't... i hate computers xD
kingcriti666420
Smash Rookie
Anyone want to see if they can get a game going with me. Or if you got any good ideas about places to find players.
We have about 10 - 15 regulars in the skype group, with other people popping in from time to time. Your experience depends on your computer and internet connection quality, along with that of your opponent. For the most part it's very smooth and reliable in single core in fast processors, where as in dualcore more processors can reach fullspeed, but they are prone to desynchronization if there is too much slowdown or internet spiking.
Hao
Smash Journeyman
The link to the Win32 version is dead bro
The link was typo'd. It hasn't moved or died.
http://jchadwick.net/ssbm/dolphinssbm-815-win32.7z
http://jchadwick.net/ssbm/dolphinssbm-815-x64.7z
http://jchadwick.net/ssbm/dolphinssbm-815-win32.7z
http://jchadwick.net/ssbm/dolphinssbm-815-x64.7z
Min
Smash Rookie
Can I join the skype group? I've tested it out myself and it seems that I can get it to run fine single core if I use the 30 fps hack, but i can only get 60 fps if I use dual core
Despite the huge latency, you may be able to play sync'd matches across the world if you use single core mode.
Fizzi
Smash Ace
Can anyone get me an invite to this skype group? Seems hardly anyone is using the IRC channel and I'm craving playing with someone that has a good PC. My skype name is Fizzi36.
I'm in Florida, good internet, run the game flawlessly on single core with an overclocked Intel Core i5-3570K.
I'm in Florida, good internet, run the game flawlessly on single core with an overclocked Intel Core i5-3570K.
Leviathan741
Smash Ace
I havent been able to make it fluid at all. I dont get desynchs but i feel input lag and lag spikes even though I have a beast computer and internetI just played a few games with this yesterday. The frame rate is nice, it feels fluid and playable, it still desynchs a lot though.
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