Recovery Tier List (Updated 1-5-07)

it's a recovery tier list, not a how good the character is tier list

mood- this list is about recovery, not survivability. so weight does not really come into play. the only time it would is when you get hit while recovering, which is what you said. but the judgeing starts once you regain control of your character after being hit off the stage and ends after you regain control of your character after getting back onto the stage

does anyone agree with me that people who rant incorrectly without good punctuation and spelling are often ignored?

in y'all's opinion, how useful is walljump?

Airo said:

unless mewtwo screws up, the only way to kill him is to knock him out of the stage.

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as opposed to?

Mario bottom tier? Marth low tier? Kirby 9 spots away from Jigglypuff?

I think I'd switch Peach with Mewtwo, as well.

I would say that a good Samus player has better recovery than a Jigglypuff, not only can they recover from nearly anywhere, but they die at higher percentage.

Bowser's recovery isnt that good, personally I think Mario's is better.

Bowser's is really predictable and its momentum based, therefore making it hard to do multiple recoveries.

CHUK said:

I would say that a good Samus player has better recovery than a Jigglypuff, not only can they recover from nearly anywhere, but they die at higher percentage.

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this list is about recovery, not survivability

CDorrian said:

Second question: Vey useful, if you get knocked down that hole in fourside or wish to wallshine.

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fourside is a banned stage in tournaments

The kid who mentioned that Samus has better recovery than JPuff cuz of recovery from anywhere and higher percentage to get knocked off..

I agree. JPuff does have that rising pound, but a solid Samus has bomb recovery and grappling hook as well with an upB that is pretty decent at getting back on the ledge. Though, JPuff probably has very good DI when getting hit. That's a tossup.

as far as I remember this list has nothing to do with being able to survive a hit, and puff can stay in the air for a good two minutes or so if they felt like it >_>

The Cape said:

Bowser's recovery isnt that good, personally I think Mario's is better.

Bowser's is really predictable and its momentum based, therefore making it hard to do multiple recoveries.

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Mario's recovery is turnip based, and well...yea...

just because it is much more complicated does not mean that it is worse. yes, it's easier to mess up, but it still is very useful, execpt on stages like DK past stage where grapple doesnt do anything....but then you can use the barrel cannon.

I don't understand how the hell Mario is so low. Tornado - Cape - Double Jump - Cape - Up+B - Possible Tech - Up+B.

I've seen Green Mario do the most ridiculous recoveries ever. Mario has the BEST mindgames when it comes to making people leave the edge prematurely.

Also, I'll bring up G&W once more. His float back to the stage horizontally is great. And you can be magnified on FD, double jump and Up+B and sweet spot. He has great magnets as well. Please clarify why his recovery is so terrible according to this list?

Basically, if you hit Mario ONCE while he is recovering, he is screwed.

Added on to my essay.

Distance: Ness covers a great distance while using PKT2. It’s generally the same as Fox’s Firefox move. Also, it takes similar start up time, unless you are aiming for special recovery. Not to mention Ness has the largest sweetspot range in the game.

Eaten Thunder: People also complain that Ness’ thunder is too easy to eat and screw him. First, they should note that only some characters can do this. Characters like Mario and Falco wouldn’t want to attempt this. Also, if the Ness is smart, he will try to keep it away from the stage making it harder for opponents to eat it. Not to mention PKT is fast in itself, making it even harder to catch. With inverse PKT2s (Putting PKT in front of Ness instead of behind him) and delayed PKT2s (waiting before hitting ness with PKT), eating PKT is just plain not a great edgeguarding option. And if you are out by Ness anyways, why not just hit him?

Other Facts: Ness can easily sweetspot the ledge very quickly. In one frame from ANYWHERE during PKT2. he is also provided with a good amount of invincibility frames in the beginning. During that time, PKT2 has just as much priority as Peach Parasol. PKTB is like an off stage shield, so edgeguarding one who has mastered this isn’t easy. Also, Ness’ unique wallhugging ability can help him greatly. If you hit him in the air while he is using PKT, he CAN reuse it. Not to mention the obvious “Any direction you choose’ thing. Also, his recovery is among the most versatile, and you can even mindgame his recovery.

Character Recovery Comparison: Now, some may say that Marth has better recovery. Well, think of it this way: If you hit a Marth back off stage while he is recovering, there is probably little chance that he can make it back. Hit Ness off again while he recovers, and he can still have a chance. The same goes for Mario, Falco, and Yoshi. Ness can take multiple hits off stage and still have a chance at making it back. Now, some might say he is too vulnerable during PKT2. well, after the sweetspot, he is vulnerable, but just as vulnerable as many other recoveries. FireFox, Green Missile, Dark Dive, and Final Cutter leave all of their respective characters relatively vulnerable in comparison. And please, it was once thought that Bowser and DK had better recoveries. They only go horizontal, and just about as far as Ness does.

PKT2 Recovery Aid Techniques
PKTB
PKTBC
Inverse PKT2 (Putting PKT in front of Ness before hitting him instead of behind him)
Delayed PKT2 (Waiting a bit after releasing PKT before hitting Ness)
Wallhugging (important to Ness since his is different than others as in he changes direction)
Perfect sweetspot (1 frame)
PKT Reverse edgeguard (Tailwhip foe and recover either hitting them, edgehogging them, or edgeguarding them afterwards.)
Pray (Anti-shinespike)
Double sided sweetspots (crash into the ledge during PKT2 and Ness can grab on both sides of him)

I vote above marth.
So does Annoying.
Join the club CDorrian!

If this doesn't get Ness up, nothing will.

Wow... you make Ness's recovery sound flawless. Me vote ABOVE MARTH!

Well, it's not PERFECT (as you should all know) but it is no where near as bad as some think. I just dont think posting the downsides is necessary .
I live for Ness
My child's name will be Ness (regardless of gender)

actually, i was thinking of naming my kid Samus. >.>

do have to petition for this? or what?

heh...ness WILL go up. as far as above marth? i dunno, i second marth and i love his recovery. he is relatively floaty so as long as you di correctly, you should be recovering from a lot. his recovery is too good in my opinion. disjointed hitbox on his up b, a way to fend of edgeguarders with forward b, neutral b, nair, fair...the ability to alter his up b (can make it go more forward than normal like roy's) but, yes, ness will go up.

sorry i have been slacking. the recovery tier list takes a lot of work and i haven't been online long enough to really go through all of your opinions. expect a change soon, possibly tonight if i am bored.

Shiek should be moved up in my opinion. I may be biased, but her recovery can be great when you know how to use it. I mean, it's got decent distance, but the control is the reason I think it should be moved up. You get 2 directions during the teleport. So if you are uinder the stage, you can go out with one then up with the other, very few characters could do that. I would say she would be around 9th and in high teir for recovery.

G&W also seems a little low. I think if you come back with the equal sign then up+B at the right time, you will be set. I have learned toi sweet spot it everytime and it is extremely vertical distance. He also floats quite well, so he can DI towards the edge when he is hit, then up+B when he is below to sweet spot the ledge. I am not saying he should be high teir, but maybe up 1 or 2 spots.

Added more to techniques, facts, and added a recovery diagram on FD

Distance: Ness covers a great distance while using PKT2. It’s generally the same as Fox’s Firefox move. Also, it takes similar start up time, unless you are aiming for special recovery. Not to mention Ness has the largest sweetspot range in the game.

Eaten Thunder: People also complain that Ness’ thunder is too easy to eat and screw him. First, they should note that only some characters can do this. Characters like Mario and Falco wouldn’t want to attempt this. Also, if the Ness is smart, he will try to keep it away from the stage making it harder for opponents to eat it. Not to mention PKT is fast in itself, making it even harder to catch. With inverse PKT2s (Putting PKT in front of Ness instead of behind him) and delayed PKT2s (waiting before hitting ness with PKT), eating PKT is just plain not a great edgeguarding option. And if you are out by Ness anyways, why not just hit him?

Other Facts: Ness can easily sweetspot the ledge very quickly. In one frame from ANYWHERE during PKT2. he is also provided with a good amount of invincibility frames in the beginning. During that time, PKT2 has just as much priority as Peach Parasol. PKTB is like an off stage shield, so edgeguarding one who has mastered this isn’t easy. Also, Ness’ unique wallhugging ability can help him greatly. If you hit him in the air while he is using PKT, he CAN reuse it. Not to mention the obvious “Any direction you choose’ thing. Also, his recovery is among the most versatile, and you can even mindgame his recovery. Also, interesting note, Ness' recovery CANNOT be caped.

Character Recovery Comparison: Now, some may say that Marth has better recovery. Well, think of it this way: If you hit a Marth back off stage while he is recovering, there is probably little chance that he can make it back. Hit Ness off again while he recovers, and he can still have a chance. The same goes for Mario, Falco, and Yoshi. Ness can take multiple hits off stage and still have a chance at making it back. Now, some might say he is too vulnerable during PKT2. well, after the sweetspot, he is vulnerable, but just as vulnerable as many other recoveries. FireFox, Green Missile, Dark Dive, and Final Cutter leave all of their respective characters relatively vulnerable in comparison. And please, it was once thought that Bowser and DK had better recoveries. They only go horizontal, and just about as far as Ness does.

Recovery Aid Techniques
Fair! (IIRC, this has more range than Marth's fair)
PKTB
PKTBC
Inverse PKT2 (Putting PKT in front of Ness before hitting him instead of behind him)
Delayed PKT2 (Waiting a bit after releasing PKT before hitting Ness)
Wallhugging (important to Ness since his is different than others as in he changes direction)
Perfect sweetspot (1 frame)
PKT Reverse edgeguard (Tailwhip foe and recover either hitting them, edgehogging them, or edgeguarding them afterwards.)
Pray (Anti-shinespike)
Double sided sweetspots (crash into the ledge during PKT2 and Ness can grab on both sides of him)
PKT2 Crawls (Just barely shoot past the ledge and Ness will follow the ground above to avoid edgehogs)
Anti-edgehog (Wallhug a vertical ledge to shoot up past it to avoid edgehogs)

Recovery Diagram

If you cant see it, yellow means sweetspot only
Dark blue border is where you can recover with a perfect horizontal
Black border is where you can PKT2 crawl
Pink border is where you can use an inverse PKT2
Light blue is where you should wallhug as Ness
Green borders indicate areas in which a perfect vertical PKT2 will allow recovery

People Who Agree
I vote above marth.
So does Annoying.
Join the club CDorrian!

methinks same as Masked.

meno care.

is that the diagram from Simna's second guide? cause it was kinda hard to see the yellow in his guide.

Ness' recovery is god-awful, it doesn't matter how many essays you Ness enthusiasts write or how many silly diagrams you draw.

wow....that was supportive and cheerful *sobs* waauuggghhhh!!!!

ness has so much better recovery than marth, he can come back if he's hit, and his airdodge is one of the best in the game (in terms of length), and his ledge grab range i think is 2nd, not 1st, i've seen doc grab from unthinkable reach, i haven't seen ness do it, and i use both as back-ups, doc practically teleports there (i don't think ness can reach like 3.5 inches (in terms of screen distance, not in game distance) like doc can) but oh well, it's still god like, also ness does have invincibilty frames with his up b unlike marth, better vertical and horizontal recovery than marth, and it can kill unlike marth's while recovering, then there's the unpredictability, ness has so much more DI than marth, it's crazy, also more options, he can go straight up, straight sideways, or go on angles while marth only goes up in 80 or 100 degree angles, ness can sweetspot the ledge from above, marth can't, ness is heavier than marth which means more chance of surviving when getting edgegaurded, and ness can stop edgegaurders and recover at teh same time better than marth can

ness above marth

Gannon and CF should be higher

mood4food77 said:

ness has so much better recovery than marth, he can come back if he's hit, and his airdodge is one of the best in the game (in terms of length), and his ledge grab range i think is 2nd, not 1st, i've seen doc grab from unthinkable reach, i haven't seen ness do it, and i use both as back-ups, doc practically teleports there (i don't think ness can reach like 3.5 inches (in terms of screen distance, not in game distance) like doc can) but oh well, it's still god like, also ness does have invincibilty frames with his up b unlike marth, better vertical and horizontal recovery than marth, and it can kill unlike marth's while recovering, then there's the unpredictability, ness has so much more DI than marth, it's crazy, also more options, he can go straight up, straight sideways, or go on angles while marth only goes up in 80 or 100 degree angles, ness can sweetspot the ledge from above, marth can't, ness is heavier than marth which means more chance of surviving when getting edgegaurded, and ness can stop edgegaurders and recover at teh same time better than marth can

ness above marth

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*jumps into your pk thunder*

Mario, Doc and I think G&W have better ledgegrabing range than Ness, and maybe some others too. Also, PK Thunder is completely predictable. Not only does it take too long, not only can it be interupted, but once you see where he is going to hit himself you know where he is going. Its just not that good. If you want to make an arguement for him based on his awesome second jump, good airdoge, and above average grab range however, I'll support that.

I will admit that I don't know all of the little things that go into these tiers...but I will say that Kirby has almost rediculous recovery ability, in terms of getting back to the ledge. With just timing jumps, I was able to get back to the playing field 5 times before being KO'd, and I had some decent damage on me. I was knocked off screen most of those times too, and I was still able to get back to the field. (FD level)

I'm sure there are more reasons as to why he's that low, but that's my personal experience with him.

Kirby's jumps are pathetic, from his very first to his very last. Especially his up B.

Really? Hmm, I've always found it easier to recover with Kirby, coming back from rediculous distances that other characters would've died on easily, and his up B ahd always served me well...

The only characters that can't make it back from the same distance as kirby is probably roy. Also, people must not edge hog you if you think kirby's up b is any good. Also, kirby has poor options for protecting himself while he's recovering, Fair doesn't have too much range/priority and the same can be said of his other moves thathe could potentially use without handicapping his recovery too much.

Brookman said:

*jumps into your pk thunder*

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*sighs*

if anyone has a bigger ledge grab range, it would be Doc or Yoshi.

bowsers recovery is so underestimated lol

Kirby's is better than Fox's IMO.

Jiggs, M2, Samus, still have the best.

Yeah, Bowser's is underrated. He can't effectively be guarded way far out because his fortress will eat the other player up. His vertical still sucks though. His horizontal is a different story.

Ness has one of the worst recoveries guys. It's so slow.

MaskedMarth said:

Oh goodness, do we have to make political parties and persuasive pamphlets just to "move Ness up above Marth?" Methinks it is effort wasted.

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anyway, is cf really so punishable that he should be that far down?

Wow, Roy is at the very bottom. It breaks my heart...

Thanks for the useful information though.

Earthbound360 said:

*sighs*

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*jumps into your pk thunder for your next stock*