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Pivoting

Pink Reaper

Pink Reaper

Real Name No Gimmicks
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Of all the techniques in Melee, pivoting along with power shielding is one of the most underutilized techs in the game. This more than likely comes from the difficult nature of the technique but I thought I'd make this thread to discuss possible ways to learn the technique. I myself recently found a relatively easy way to do it and so far its been working at least most of the time for me. I've found that the way I do SHRL with Falco is also a way to pivot oddly enough. When I SHRL with Falco I use the method of tapping forwards when I jump then tapping backwards and letting the Control Stick reset. As it does, I fire the laser and tap down to fast fall. By tapping backwards I lose no forward momentum and I still fire the reverse laser. Now here's where pivoting comes in. I've found that during a dash dance, that same "tap forward, tap backwards, reset" series results in me coming out of a dash dance on the standing frame(the pivot frame) At first I thought it was just coincidence that my timing for the SHRL and Pivot were the same but then I showed my friend how to SHRL with Falco and after he got it down I asked him to try pivoting and he could do it almost as well as I could(and this friend of mine is very limited tech wise)

So thats my way of pivoting, I was hoping it could help some people who wanted to learn, but more so I was hoping that we can discuss pivoting and maybe find a better way to do it. As for uses, I've found some more obscure uses for it. Pivot Grabbing is obvious, but I've found use in Pivot Aerials with characters like Captain Falcon and Fox. It allows you to space things like Nairs with no forward momentum(Sort of like Shai Huluds Shield Halted Aerials)

So anyways yeah, lets have a pivot discussion :)
 
darkatma

darkatma

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another easy way is to incorrectly perform a moonwalk by flicking too fully, or not fast enough. I often find myself doing empty pivots instead of moonwalking by accident.

but seriously, I can do empty pivots, pivoted usmashes, pivoted ftilts, pivoted jabs, pivoted smashes at will. It's really not hard.

Generally, flick one direction, manually bring the control stick back to neutral, flick the other direction and release.
 
DippnDots

DippnDots

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I've never seen someone outside of pools not adequately use pivots, I guess that's because I go to good tournaments though.
 
F

Falcinho

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Austria
^That's an interesting question, unfortunately i have no clue.

I like to dash in a direction and do a pivot fsmash in the other direction =D
 
Winston

Winston

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As marth at least, the timing for pivot fsmash seems really natural for some reason. I dashed and then fsmashed immediately by accident (not intending to pivot) and it worked.

Also,I stick jump (which is obviously a bad idea) (but it's a habit) and sometimes I accidentally pivot jabs with fox instead of shffl nairing.

... >.>
 
DippnDots

DippnDots

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Pink Reaper said:
I myself recently found a relatively easy way to do it and so far its been working at least most of the time for me. I've found that the way I do SHRL with Falco is also a way to pivot oddly enough. When I SHRL with Falco I use the method of tapping forwards when I jump then tapping backwards and letting the Control Stick reset. As it does, I fire the laser and tap down to fast fall. By tapping backwards I lose no forward momentum and I still fire the reverse laser. Now here's where pivoting comes in. I've found that during a dash dance, that same "tap forward, tap backwards, reset" series results in me coming out of a dash dance on the standing frame(the pivot frame) At first I thought it was just coincidence that my timing for the SHRL and Pivot were the same but then I showed my friend how to SHRL with Falco and after he got it down I asked him to try pivoting and he could do it almost as well as I could(and this friend of mine is very limited tech wise)

So thats my way of pivoting
Click to expand...
right here I think
 
DippnDots

DippnDots

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Ah I gotcha, but, there's no technique for pivoting, it's just something you learn to do, and then get it down to muscle memory. Don't make a big deal out of something so little, isn't healthy :p

In closing, love your transmetro-kirby.



Edit: There is nothing new to pivots either, it's simply turning your character, what you do after that is up to you. Yes, you can do a pivot grab, obvious, your pivot nair for falcon and fox, that's been around for ages. Understand it for what it is, simply turning your character around.
 
DippnDots

DippnDots

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Pink Reaper said:
Also, he's not transmetro, he's this


Click to expand...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transmetropolitan



And here's a quote from Magus420 about pivoting with Ganon, it really helped me understand pivoting better.


Magus420 said:
Pivot jabs are relatively easy. Flick and release the control stick in the opposite direction to do the pivot then press A right after since you're just standing still at that point. Tilts are a LOT harder. I do it similarly to the jabs, but do it with a VERY specific timing so that A is pressed a moment sooner on the frame when the control is snapping back to neutral but is still between neutral and the threshold for dashing (if it's still in the latter you won't pivot anyway and will dash).

It may be my controller or just my timing, but I always have a far easier time doing pivoted f-tilts to the left, and get jabs more often to the right but if I try faster to the right I often get smashes. To do d-tilts you can do the same thing for f-tilts except flick the direction and roll it downward extremely quick before releasing. I have an easier time doing those to the right however =P

If you can do them reliably pivoted f-tilts are very useful for their quick speed and substantial range while still having the mobility of a DD. Also keep in mind you don't have to do them on the pull back, but you can get a lot of unexpected range by full dashing/foxtrotting towards then tiny dash away then pivot it back forward again so you basically get a full dash towards and then f-tilt towards right from there to cover a lot of ground at once.

(second post)
To add to the way I was suggesting to pivot jabs b4, make sure your analog works with the flick method to pivot in the first place. I realized yesterday that my analog stick got worn or something recently and I guess when I flick it it doesn't always snap back to completely neutral in time. I could only get it to cancel the dash like 1/10 tries while another controller worked 100% basically. I was wondering why it'd been so finicky the last time I tried pivoting jabs/tilts in matches and ended up just not trying after awhile cuz I kept dash attacking. Luckily it was just the grip which I was able to just swap with a good one.

Another way to pivot f-tilts is to move the analog a little slower than usual when you go to turn around and don't go all the way to the side, then press A when it's about 3/4 of the way to the side. You should also be sure to lighten the pressure you put on the stick right around then so it begins to move back right after reaching the 3/4 point. You actually press A right after it starts to move back since the threshold of stand/dash and tilt/smash are at the same spot. Basically you tilt just past the point that causes you to turn around then lay off it slightly to go back into tilt range immediately after which is when you press A.

I also came up with a way to pivot d-tilts very easily that lets me do them pretty consistently. Essentially it's similar to the above f-tilt method of not pressing all the way except right after passing the dash threshold you do a quarter circle downward while staying within tilt range so you get the d-tilt and not d-smash. Not the greatest thing for Ganon, but I gotta try this out with my Marth . I'm still better at doing them to the right tho haha.
Click to expand...

Basically, he flicks it for the turn around, and if he wants to do a tilt instead of a jab he'll hit A sooner. Smashes you use the c-stick :p
 
Vulcan55

Vulcan55

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pivot?
Isn't that where you use the one standing up frame when you turn around to do a standing move/grab?
 
E

Eggm

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You don't need to jc a grab if you pivot grab correctly. I can pivot easily with jabs and smash attacks, I can't do it with tilts tho. :( I want to learn that sooner or later one of these days. Especially up tilt. I can also do consistent empty pivots, but those are worthless LOL.
 
otg

otg

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Pivot utilts are waaay too sexy. At w2z yesterday, Vanz showed me the Melee version of RAR in Brawl. Dash, pivot, SH aerial. Using pivoting outside of just Fsmash/ftilt and grabs could open up even cooler ways to link combos together.
 
L

Lovage 805

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watch HugS, the samus pioneer. he uses pivots like a mad man, including pivot ftilts (hard to do)

edit: also, wouldn't jc pivot grabs be useless? all a JC grab is is a standing grab and if you pivoted a grab correctly, you're standing....that's like doing a JC grab out of shield lol
 
Pink Reaper

Pink Reaper

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Lovage 805 said:
watch HugS, the samus pioneer. he uses pivots like a mad man, including pivot ftilts (hard to do)

edit: also, wouldn't jc pivot grabs be useless? all a JC grab is is a standing grab and if you pivoted a grab correctly, you're standing....that's like doing a JC grab out of shield lol
Click to expand...
Well, a JC grab out of a dash dance with a character like Captain Falcon or Fox means your going to slide alot, with a Pivot grab, since you technically have no momentum whatsoever you stay grounded in one spot. Its good on stages like Pokemon Stadium where you want to control where you get your grab so your CG's aren't ruined by platforms and such.

Also yes, Hugs does pivot like a mad man.
 
Witchking_of_Angmar

Witchking_of_Angmar

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Lovage 805 said:
watch HugS, the samus pioneer. he uses pivots like a mad man, including pivot ftilts (hard to do)

edit: also, wouldn't jc pivot grabs be useless? all a JC grab is is a standing grab and if you pivoted a grab correctly, you're standing....that's like doing a JC grab out of shield lol
Click to expand...
It's slightly slower, but it's much easier to pivot jumps, and if you mess up, you don't lag like hell.
 
Magus420

Magus420

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An easier and more reliable way I started doing non-delayed pivot f-tilts (without flick release pivoting and re-tilting which is slower) since that old post of mine is to fully release the analog from inputting the previous dash before doing the pivot, and then going and reversing the direction only after it's back to neutral.

Then you just press the other direction at a moderate speed and press A when the analog is roughly most of the way to the side. When you do it this way it's impossible to accidentally f-smash instead of f-tilt so long as there is a frame where the analog is between the neutral position and turning threshold, which is easy to do like this.

Even if the analog is fully to the side on the turning frame when you press A you still won't f-smash as long as there was that slight tilt frame before the turn. If you f-smash you moved it too quickly and went directly from neutral to the turn threshold in 1 frame. If you dash attack in the original direction you pressed A too soon, and if you dash attack in the other direction you pressed it too late.

When you do it like this you only need to worry about timing the A button correctly so that it is on the turning frame.
 
F

Falcinho

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Magus is that technical that he unlocked multiple locations and postcounters on smashboards lol

E: and signatures
 
MikeHaggarTHAKJB

MikeHaggarTHAKJB

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That pivot turnaround/empty pivot thing is really useful, especially with certain characters with bad wavedashes and good dashdances (read: captain falcon), for those characters it could essentially replace wavedashing.
I'm actually thinking about starting to do this to sort of replace my wavedashing as a spacing tool. Wavedashing the exact distance you want to is very hard (imo) considering how sensitive it is to how youre holding the control stick.
 
Beeble

Beeble

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Any advice on empty pivots/pivot jabs? I have the timing down for fsmashes and grabs, but the other 2 not so much.

Also I'm guessing the best means of pivot utilts is empty pivot to utilt?
 
soap

soap

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how are empty pivots not useful? u can do a move whenever u want. or another pivot.

ya, with falcon and marth, u can repeatedly empty pivot backwards instead of wavedash. wavedash is stilll good for momentum shifting though
 
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