Learning l-cancelling

brg · Aug 18, 2008

In order to efectively learn l-cancelling what do you guys recommend, daily practice in training mode? Trying to do in games vs friends or a combination of the two? I can l-cancel pretty good when in training mode alone, but in a game it is much harder.....keep trying i guess? how long did it take you to apply it?

Doggalina · Aug 18, 2008

Well, in training mode, you can't use the C-Stick for aerials, so it would help to practice in Vs. Mode as well.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?d...sa6pSPrmO4yc4gK4itCTAQ&q=advanced+how+to+play
That video is amazing. If you want to learn Melee techs, watch it and learn it.

I was able to learn how to SHFLL a knee in about a half hour. However, learning how to use it was a different story. With practice, it comes. Be patient.

akapseudo · Aug 18, 2008

generally you'll want to practice any new technique by yourself first. that way you can focus solely on that technique and better analyze what you're doing. with something as simple as l canceling though, because you'll be using it so often, you should be able to add it to your game very quickly and learn it as you play

pieisamazing · Aug 18, 2008

Just start by getting into the habit of hitting the L/R button, whichever you choose, whenever you are doing an aerial. It won't matter if you are close to the ground, just get in the habit of hitting the button when you are in the air. After that, you can gradually start timing the button press better so you will truly L-cancel your aerial. That's what I did, and it was very helpful to me. I sometimes have trouble cancelling after my attack is shielded, but that's another thing to work on entirely.

Roman. · Aug 18, 2008

yeah but when learning to l-cancel, i personally recommend training on a lv 1 cpu or something you can hit because the timing can be different whether you just throw out a shffl or are hitting something (including a shield)

one technique people use is putting another controller into another port, putting them on bowser, turning handicap on and giving them a level 9 handicap and you a level 1 handicap, and finally turning the damage ratio to 0.5 (all of this makes it so that the bowser is just standing there and won't move until very high percent and you can practice attacking him and l-canceling)

okiyama · Aug 18, 2008

There's a world of difference between using a technique in training mode and using it in game. In training mode all your thinking is, "Okay, time to L-cancel... NOW!" in the game you're thinking about so many other things that L-Cancelling is the last thing to pop into your head.

The way I learned to use techniques in game is just to abuse them, play games where all you're thinking is "Okay, I'm gonna lose this game, don't worry about winning just freaking L cancel every freaking move" With wavedashing it's easier to learn how to do in game because you can just play matches where you don't allow yourself to move by any otehr way than wavedashing. Like I said, doing this will get you ***** at first but you'll learn the techniques fast and be able to apply them easily.

NeBz · Aug 18, 2008

DO NOT L-CANCEL ON TIMING!!! See how low you are to the ground and L-Cancel. Don't get into that bad L-Cancelling habit that I got into.

Use characters like Bowser so you can see clearly when you L-Cancelled and when you didn't. L-Cancel an aeriel with a Fulljump, Shorthop, Double Jump, on platforms... etc

This way you can't get into the habbit of L-Cancelling on timing.

After you nailed that and it became second nature learn Shuffling.

Metà · Aug 18, 2008

Note that when you're practicing L-cancelling, don't just do it on your own all the time. When you hit someone, it causes freeze frames, which will keep you in the air longer and can potentially wreck your timing.

Some attacks have a lot more freeze frames than others. To feel the effect of this, try practicing hitting someone with Ganondorf's d-air and L-cancel it. It's kind of hard sometimes because you freeze for a long time.

Killress · Aug 18, 2008

NeBz said:
DO NOT L-CANCEL ON TIMING!!! See how low you are to the ground and L-Cancel. Don't get into that bad L-Cancelling habit that I got into.

This.

When I first started doing ATs, I relied on timing my shuffles. Bad idea. I couldn't full jump -> aerial and Lcancel it. It was a very hard habit to break.

MikeHaggarTHAKJB · Aug 18, 2008

Yes hitlag and shieldhitlag lag is practically made to destroy your timing. (yes I know hitlag has a function, im just pronouncing how badly hitlag can mess it up). I am actually having lots of problem L canceling falcons nair when shffling them into shields... I try to fast fall just before the second hit comes out and im not sure wether or not I should l cancel before or after the hitlag of the second hit. When I do it when hitting people I usually L cancel just before, but for some reason my timing isn't as ****ed up by normal hitlag as shieldhitlag lol

So practice against hitting people (hitlag) AND shieldhitlag. When practicing against shieldhitstun, use starmans (have the character your hitting have a starman)

Magus420 · Aug 18, 2008

Also, to prevent getting into a bad habit, you should learn to l-cancel by only partially pressing L/R and not pressing it all the way down (or you could also just use Z to l-cancel instead). If you press and click it all the way down to l-cancel you won't be able to tech if you get hit and knocked down right afterwards.

The entirety of the hitlag of an aerial is included in the l-cancel window as long as the time after hitlag ends and when you land doesn't exceed the l-cancel window. So while the normal window is 7 frames I believe, if you connect with Ganon's d-air (10 frames of hitlag) 6 frames before you would land, all of the hitlag is included in the window, and you would actually have like a 16 frame l-cancel window in that case.

The hitlag will still use up the window though when included, and if the time after hitlag + hitlag is 7 frames or more, the window will cut off at the start of hitlag. This is what messes people up sometimes. Say someone were to press the l-cancel 2 frames before they would normally land, and would otherwise easily be within the window. If that same d-air were to hit 1 frame before landing, the included hitlag from it would use up the l-cancel window making the window end at the beginning of the hitlag, and makes what would have been 2 frames before landing then be outside the window and they would miss the l-cancel.

This is why you want to get in the habit of pressing the l-cancel only after the attack hitbox would come out, and not before.

brg · Aug 19, 2008

okiyama said:
There's a world of difference between using a technique in training mode and using it in game. In training mode all your thinking is, "Okay, time to L-cancel... NOW!" in the game you're thinking about so many other things that L-Cancelling is the last thing to pop into your head..

word lol

..

KevinM · Aug 19, 2008

On a side note the most important thing once you can L-Cancel without thinking about it, is knowing what to do with that.

Knowing what to do from the L-cancel separates the mediocre to the truly high placements.

MikeHaggarTHAKJB · Aug 19, 2008

I guess I'm not doing the best way.

I thought that if you L during the hitlag nothing would happen? (since nobody can do anything during hitlag except the person getting hit who can Smash DI, as far as I have understood)
Are you saying the best way to L cancel is to press L during the hitlag (when it comes to attacks that come out just before you land, which is what I am having trouble L canceling)? If I understood you correctly you would almost have to when L canceling something with alot of hitlag that comes out just before you hit the ground. Otherwise you would have to time the L cancel of something like a ganon stomp that comes out 1 frame before landing (the example you made) with 1 frames accuracy (the one frame after the hitlag that would also the frame that you land), and that can't be right.

So you're saying that pressing L during the hitlag will cause you to l cancel? I was so sure that you couldn't do anything during hitlag. Is L canceling an exception from this rule?

So either I'm wrong about not being able to do anything during hitlag, or maybe I misunderstood you completely.
Id like to have things clarified, it'd be greatly appreciated.

Thanks for any input.

EDIT: Actually nevermind all of that I wrote, I tested and it is in fact so that if you press L during hitlag it "buffers" an L cancel for the next 6 frames, so to speak. So L canceling is an exception from the "you can't do anything during hitlag"-rule.
(I don't have AR so Im only 99.99% sure, but still.)
It's amazing that the developers actually thought of this btw, especially considering that they didn't know the game would be so SHFFL oriented. This game is to good.

Thanks again for the info Magus.

brg · Aug 19, 2008

thanks for the pointers, which I have found very true, when i started practicing my l cancel was based on timing...now some moves I can l-cancel fairly efficiently like samus nair but still, its a difficult thing to learn

MikeHaggarTHAKJB · Aug 19, 2008

Yhea it's hard in the beginning, but don't give up! It'll become second nature after a while. It has been hard for everyone at some point, beleive me.

brg · Aug 19, 2008

MikeHaggarTHAKJB said:
Yhea it's hard in the beginning, but don't give up! It'll become second nature after a while. It has been hard for everyone at some point, beleive me.

The annoying thing is that I have this reflex to press shield after attacks, which sometimes messes me up lol, but its getting better

Just wondering, technically, im playing samus and my opponent is too, if I drop with a fast nair on him crouch cancelling and I l cancel into a jab, should he have the time to dsmash or my jab will come out faster?

(this is probably some frame specific **** ill have to check in the samus forums..)

NeBz · Aug 19, 2008

brg said:
The annoying thing is that I have this reflex to press shield after attacks, which sometimes messes me up lol, but its getting better

lol, yeah me too. I almost always put the shield on after a SHFFLed Fair with Marth, Shield Grab him > Upthrow > Utilt combo.

MikeHaggarTHAKJB · Aug 19, 2008

If he's crouch canceling it's almost gauranteed that his dsmash will come out first. Unless it's a character with a very slow dsmash.

Magus420 · Aug 19, 2008

Yeah, don't n-air. D-air would be better since it gives ground stun.

KevinM · Aug 19, 2008

KevinM said:
On a side note the most important thing once you can L-Cancel without thinking about it, is knowing what to do with that.

Knowing what to do from the L-cancel separates the mediocre to the truly high placements.

Thanks KevinM

Pink Reaper · Aug 19, 2008

KevinM said:
Thanks KevinM

No problem, any time.

brg · Aug 20, 2008

i thought of something, im going to try to l-cancel in prevision of chaining another move instead of ending an aerial....

Professor Pro · Aug 20, 2008

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4n4s5yB7ZkE

This vid and the other 2 parts to help you learn everything needed in the basics of AT.

brg · Aug 21, 2008

Professor Pro said:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4n4s5yB7ZkE

This vid and the other 2 parts to help you learn everything needed in the basics of AT.

ive seen those, im surprised there are only 300,000 views on youtube

RawrBoom · Aug 21, 2008

Don't practice on Final Destination for AT's. Use Dreamland or Battlefield because the platforms will cause you to not rely on timing.

brg · Aug 23, 2008

RawrBoom said:
Don't practice on Final Destination for AT's. Use Dreamland or Battlefield because the platforms will cause you to not rely on timing.

Yes, i practice on battlefield most of the time

ShadowMewtwo · Aug 25, 2008

these are great tips i wish i was a pro at them all but i guess ill practice till i get all it down thanks for the video

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