technical aspects of my game

I have been working more on my tech skill with ganon after dropping all other characters due to lameness. so I've been working on my grab setups, shield pressure, and "ledge game" and i have a few questions to ask about them to make my game better.

1. i was recording with my cousin (vids up soon i hope), and ledgehop uair to grab seemed to work. I was wondering if this has viable use or he was just confused and didnt expect it. Has anyone else come across its uses?

2. I've been trying out all possibilities for standing and aerial shield pressure and have had success with jab, down ftilt, and fair in no particular order. Does anyone have any other sorts of strategies or combination to this for a better pressure game other than picking ganon and letting them know whos the boss.

3. im getting pretty good about not letting anything come back after getting knocked off so im trying to get reverse wavelanding down to sort of bait a recovery up and punish it and just for mindgamesies as well working on my pivot edgehogging >< so hard but im gettin there. anything else i could work on?

1. If it really works (and I can't imagine that it wouldnt work when I think about) then yhea, it's very useful. You can backthrow for edgeguard or downthrow for combo.

2. Shield pressuring isn't really that good with ganon, but especially not with ganon cuz he lags so much that he's going to get shieldgrabbed. UNLESS you're out of their shieldgrab range, then you might use it to bait a roll. But if the roll away you will most likely not be able to punish it, unless they have a bad roll.
But generally it's better to just grab people who insist on always putting their shield up lol

3. Pivot edgehogging is ridicioulusly hard and the payoff isn't that great lol. There are better things to practice. Off course you can learn it just for fun but it's far from necessary. I can't tell you what since I haven't seen you play if there's something that you're not consistent with or you keep messing up or something then you should just perfect that.
For a fast edgehog, you can dashdance to turn around and then wavedash back really fast. You can do this out of a run aswell: Just dash cancel (press down), dash dance to turn around, then wavedash.

I don't think reverse wavelanding is hard XD like.. from the ledge hop on then waveland immediately back to the ledge? I use it occasionally, mostly only when i do the captain falcon thing hop on, waveland back, jump, up/f air.

r u talkin bout the PC edgehog? i swear ganon can not do it he walks too slow

no he's talking about puvot edgehogging, ie dashdancing so close to the edge that you slip off during the pivot (standing) frame

For shield pressure I LOVE Fair -> Jab, it ***** shieldgrabbers, and once they start expecting it and shield the entire time Fair -> Gerudo Dragon, and take a chunk out of their shield.

Maybe he's talking about waveland pivot edgehog? Ganon can't really do the walk->turn edgehog aka PC edgehog, and the dashdance pivot edgehog barely can work with Ganon at all and I don't even know of any character that can set it up reliably anyway.

Waveland pivot edgehog works with him though because he continues to slide towards the edge more after that than those. You don't slide at ALL with the dashdance pivot hog which is why it's bad and pretty unreliable because it depends on exactly where you start the dash.

Technically you could also perfect wavedash pivot for it but the positioning needs to be just right since you slide less than a horizontal waveland. An instant doublejump forward (DJ makes the horizontal waveland easy) to fastfall waveland pivot is barely any slower anyway if at all and is WAY easier, though it's still pretty difficult.

Renth said:

I don't think reverse wavelanding is hard XD like.. from the ledge hop on then waveland immediately back to the ledge? I use it occasionally, mostly only when i do the captain falcon thing hop on, waveland back, jump, up/f air.

Click to expand...

Im gettin there mark, its gettin easy but i still have problems from the left side idk why.

Magus420 said:

Maybe he's talking about waveland pivot edgehog? Ganon can't really do the walk->turn edgehog aka PC edgehog, and the dashdance pivot edgehog barely can work with Ganon at all and I don't even know of any character that can set it up reliably anyway.

Waveland pivot edgehog works with him though because he continues to slide towards the edge more after that than those. You don't slide at ALL with the dashdance pivot hog which is why it's bad and pretty unreliable because it depends on exactly where you start the dash.

Technically you could also perfect wavedash pivot for it but the positioning needs to be just right since you slide less than a horizontal waveland. An instant doublejump forward (DJ makes the horizontal waveland easy) to fastfall waveland pivot is barely any slower anyway if at all and is WAY easier, though it's still pretty difficult.

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I just walk toward the ledge because most times i use this im fairing so im close to the edge anyways. its gettin easier with practice but i seem to do it on accident more than on purpose xD

It's a pretty not good idea to shield pressure as Ganon because he's slow as crap. What you should do is avoid shield grabs (I believe you can do this with all L-canceled aerials and the Gerudo Dragon, although it's possible to wavedash out of shield to grab the Gerudo Dragon, I think) and them predict and punish rolls with dsmashes and Wizard's Foots. Feet?

You can uair or dair or fair them if they jump out of shield too.

double post for great justice!
I will try to post some "recent" videos of my ganon although nowadays it takes me a couple matches to warm up(no juans) so you will see more in later vids. also i give you this, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4bU3RGrj5Ts

I wasa bored and my cousin suggested I put this on youtube because of how funny it was. Check him out, he has a really good falcon. links to his vids are on related. thanks

on the first one. yes it works but you can do something better after the u-air.
I call it pe2 combo...aka my combo lol.
you can down smash right after on most characters (all fast fallers, marth, sheik and several others) after the downsmash..which is pretty unexpected they usually are in perfect position for you to dair them and spike them off the stage...if you don't think it'll hit you can double reverse u-air...b-air...lots of stuff.

You could try going to hell.

can you grab someone with a wavedash from shield to grab before the jab/spot dodge gets out after the gerudo dragon (i'm assuming this is side b people are referring to)?

When you hit with the Gerudo Dragon, the hitbox is from frames four to eight and you can interrupt on frame twenty-five. That means there's a twenty-one frame window (assuming you hit with the first hitbox)

If we take away the seven frame window it takes to grab, then add one frame for the vulnerability frame before the spotdodge takes effect (the spotdodge is his fastest option) we get fifteen frames.

A fresh Gerudo Dragon does eighteen damage, which means you get seven frames of hitlag and ten frames of shieldstun, giving you three frames more frames of stuck...ness...

Which means you only have twelve frames to wavedash. Since every wavedash has ten frames of lag and the fastest any character can get off the ground is four frames, the answer is no, you can't wavedash to grab.

O_O nice analasys.

elvenarrow3000 said:

When you hit with the Gerudo Dragon, the hitbox is from frames four to eight and you can interrupt on frame twenty-five. That means there's a twenty-one frame window (assuming you hit with the first hitbox)

If we take away the seven frame window it takes to grab, then add one frame for the vulnerability frame before the spotdodge takes effect (the spotdodge is his fastest option) we get fifteen frames.

A fresh Gerudo Dragon does eighteen damage, which means you get seven frames of hitlag and ten frames of shieldstun, giving you three frames more frames of stuck...ness...

Which means you only have twelve frames to wavedash. Since every wavedash has ten frames of lag and the fastest any character can get off the ground is four frames, the answer is no, you can't wavedash to grab.

Click to expand...

frame data is kinda cool it takes the guesswork out of stuff, id normally have to try something like that 5 times and have to get punched in the face every time to learn that its too slow

You have no idea how many times I've looked up the shieldstun/hitlag formula already @_@

what is the shieldstun/hitlag formula link plz