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Does JAB guarantee slow getup on NOn-tech?

soap

Smash Hero
Joined
Jan 24, 2006
Messages
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Location
Cleveland, Ohio
my friend gave me the idea to jab non techs on fox then charge an usmash cuz the jab forces the slow getup similar to falcos lasers

but they dont always do the slow getup, sometimes they roll away, i thought the jab forced the one option but it only seems to work at low percentages. above 50 the cpu at least always rolls away. anyone know exactly how this thing works?

i reposted this in melee discussion cuz it seems like a pretty general tactic. Although this works with needles too i.e fair>aerial needle the non tech>dash attack etc. although i have the same problem of they dont always do the slow getup from needles.
 

elvenarrow3000

Smash Master
Joined
Jul 22, 2007
Messages
3,308
Holding away/towards/A during the jab will cause rolling away, towards or get-up attacks, respectively.
 

Shai Hulud

Smash Lord
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Dec 21, 2006
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Oregon
I'm pretty sure it varies based on character, %, and direction your opponent is holding. I made a list for the jab stand-up %s for Fox but haven't tested it for other characters. However I suspect the mechanics are similar.
 

Magus420

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The point where they can begin to do a different getup than stand is based entirely on the attack's launch power, which has been multiplied by their weight, so it follows the weight list in the same way.

Attacks like Peach's jab for example, which has a fixed knockback, will always allow Fox/Falco to Roll or Attack in addition to Stand on a forced getup with it, while it will always force CF to Stand regardless of what he holds/presses on forced getup. This is because the base knockback of her slap multiplied by Fox/Falco's weight puts the launching power beyond the needed amount to allow the additional options, whereas when multiplied by CF's weight the power is below the required amount.

Regardless of the options the attack's launch power allows, in order for them to get a forced getup in the first place they need to be on the ground following the attack after like 13 frames or something, which is a short animation where they lay back down following the ground hit. If they're still in the air when the animation completes they go into a neutral fall stance and simply land on their feet and can do whatever.


This is the damage they need to be at after the hit for Sheik's Needles and Jab to allow the extra Roll and Attack options on a forced getup. Below this they will always do the normal stand on forced getup.

They both seem to have the same damages so I suppose they have roughly the same power at that damage range. Non-fastfallers won't hit the ground again nearly as fast so they land on their feet instead easily when using a Jab. FFers do this too at higher damages or when they DI/SDI the Jab upwards at lower damage.

Bowser .... 45
DK ........ 44
Samus ..... 44
Ganon ..... 43
Yoshi ..... 43
CF ........ 42
Link ...... 42
Dr Mario .. 42
Luigi ..... 42
Mario ..... 42
Ness ...... 40
Peach ..... 39
Sheik ..... 39
Zelda ..... 39
ICs ....... 39
Marth ..... 39
Mewtwo .... 38
Roy ....... 38
Y Link .... 38
Falco ..... 37
Pikachu ... 37
Fox ....... 36
Kirby ..... 35
Jiggs ..... 33
G&W ....... 33
Pichu ..... 32



For the Jab, these are the faster falling and more relevant characters that don't get out of it easily. This is the percent after the hit that these characters will begin to land on their feet if they hold UP when jabbed off the floor.

Fox ....... 71
Falco ..... 43
CF ........ 33
Sheik ..... 25
Roy ....... 20
DK ........ 19


^^ If you're wondering why Fox's is so high there it's because of his fall acceleration being much higher than everyone else's.
 

soap

Smash Hero
Joined
Jan 24, 2006
Messages
7,229
Location
Cleveland, Ohio
i wonder why they lose options at low percents, sucks for FFers. this forced getup business is 222good, thanks for makin that... ur like m2k but ur data is actually useful lolol

jus a useful lil techchase combo ive been getting consistently-from 0-10 i get dthrow (no tech) jab charge usmash, jab charge usmash, jab em in air grab quite a bit on foxes. they tend to miss the second tech cuz they tried to block the first usmash and get johned on by that 40 frame tech rule thing.
 

SPAWN

Smash Master
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Slippi.gg
spaw#333
Holy crap this thread is actually extremely useful. That helps so much. I have a tournament this weekend, I'm so glad I decided to go here.

I <3 Magus soooo much.
 

$ick

Smash Lord
Joined
Aug 16, 2006
Messages
1,255
Location
Victorville, SoCal
Yeah when I first learned this through Mango's jab to rest I thought it was all the time errytime. I was wrong. :(
 
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