Sonic The Hedgehog: Community Matchup thread

I don't see the fight as an air/ground issue, more of a mix-ups vs range issue. This will happen in the air and on the ground in this fight.

PS @aeghrur: go to training mode, select Samus. Short-hop. Press z. Oh and be careful, you might like it

Throwback said:

I don't see the fight as an air/ground issue, more of a mix-ups vs range issue. This will happen in the air and on the ground in this fight.

PS @aeghrur: go to training mode, select Samus. Short-hop. Press z. Oh and be careful, you might like it

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Oh my god, i didnt think i would see this again so soon...

TRUTH TO LOL COMBO!!

ok i am finishing this 1 tonight. throwback u gonna b online? (this char was too slow)

I haven't played Samus in a while, but remind me if Spin Charge goes low enough to avoid properly timed zairs?

Teh Umby said:

I haven't played Samus in a while, but remind me if Spin Charge goes low enough to avoid properly timed zairs?

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nope :[

steak and cow

shouldnt u be able to just time the SC anyway? I'm sure zairs have a pretty decent window between them.. u only need like a split millisecond to get a SC in there.

Z-airs are usually done out of an airdodge or with some sort of missile/bomb shield to stop/slow you down when you're approaching :[

but hey, if there's an opening, just try to run towards Samus as she's rising and then be ready to shield crap lol

Then grab, Uthrow and harass with Uairs and bairs.
Cause she loves them so much. >_>

Bad joke is bad

Samus isn't really considered easy to use. Not the hardest character, but pretty difficult.

And what is it with all this projectile damaging approaching business? Spincharge clanks with normal missiles, which are probably going to be most commonly used.
Also, Spindash Hop does go through missiles and stuff lol. You must be getting the timing wrong. It doesn't have a hurtbox, so you can't really take damage >_>

Greenstreet said:

Samus is tall so we can get him with a fair from below with a reduced chance of punishment.

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I noticed this quite a lot in the 'how to win' bit too, lol.

did you guys know that samus likes men? doesnt that effect this matchup?

R4ZE said:

did you guys know that samus likes men? doesnt that effect this matchup?

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Um, Sonic likes tails. =O
Anyhow, what's sonic's z-air then? o.O. *help the noob*

Doesn't have one.
It's only Link, Toon Link, and Samus who do, isn't it? Or at least, they're the only useful ones.

RIP OFF! Sonics need some help to further the meta-game, a z-air would've helped... I think...

The zair of all three characters is just their grab with an attack box instead of grab.

Sonic has a normal grab so,no zair.

probly finish this one today. any last comments?

aeghrur said:

Um, Sonic likes tails. =O
Anyhow, what's sonic's z-air then? o.O. *help the noob*

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Kill yourself...

ShadowLink84 said:

Kill yourself...

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I tried, it didn't work. =( Wanna kill me for me?

ok i am a bit sik of samus. i'll finish it in my own time. the next page can be zero suit

In the meantime, this thread can be off topic a little more right? =O
Samus or Master Chief? lol.

Samus, obviously.
Have you reached a verdict on the match-up, like numberwise or whatever? From what I've seen no ones really suggested anything.
IMO, either 55:45 or 60:40. I'm not too sure. Probably the former >_>

ROOOOY! said:

Samus, obviously.
Have you reached a verdict on the match-up, like numberwise or whatever? From what I've seen no ones really suggested anything.
IMO, either 55:45 or 60:40. I'm not too sure. Probably the former >_>

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From what I've read, it seems either 55:45(samus) or 50:50. =/

I'll be making a Sonic Board export on the ZSS boards soon to quicken up the pace, but if Greenstreet wants to do it I wont.

I remember us talking about it with them a while ago and reaching the conclusion it was 50:50.
It was on their boards I think.
Anyway, only 1 more post allowed after this. Then it's next page for ZSS.

For ZSS i would say it could go either way I am not too sure i've only faced one good ZSS. Probably 50-50

Samus is 60:40 maybe 65:35 considering how quickly Sonic acn get in and how he can prevent her from getting control. *shrug*

Yeah I'd appreciate that Chis. Infact, just so people are aware, there will come a time in about 2-3 months in which I'll be leaving the country, and the internet won't be an option for about 6 weeks. So that having been said, someone else will need to run this thread. The front page won't be able to be updated by seeing as though the other matchup thread is importing the info from here it shouldn't make a heck of a impact. So yeah, someone will just have to keep going through the list and running it while I'm gone (preferably in the same format, but yeah)...

So if anyone is interested let me know.

zss post here (gah samus wasnt completed )

ZERO SUIT SAMUS - Character Matchup 5



Introduction
Zero Suit Samus, often abbreviated as ZSS, 0SS or Zamus is Samus Aran without her Power Suit, and is left with her Zero Suit. Its name is taken from Metroid: Zero Mission, the first game to feature the form fitting suit. Samus is covered completely from neck to toe in a form fitting blue suit with pink lights on her back. Her long blonde hair is tied back into a ponytail with a red band. While quicker and more agile without her suit, she is also weaker, resorting to a small handgun to defend herself. Unveiled at E3 2006, Zero Suit Samus, often abbreviated as ZSS or 0SS is a character that appears in Super Smash Bros. Brawl. Zero Suit Samus lacks power and stamina compared to Samus, but is faster. She uses a gun known as the Paralyzer, which can also be converted into a Plasma Whip. Her whip can be used to recover, similar to Samus's Grapple Beam.


Behaviour:

Good ZSS players, like Diddy players, won't just waste the armor pieces and throw them at you if they're in a position to be lost if avoided, unless they're purposely trying to get rid of them. D-throw/U-throw armor allows the owner of the armor to have a defensive aura/move bait (airdodge or attack done to catch it). The beginning of my matches against ZSS players usually do revolve around item control or playing around them (lol, like playing 'chicken' to see who does the move to pick up/catch an armor pieces first.
-Tenki

ZSS likes her stun gun. She has a lot of different things she can do out of it. They go for the grab often, but I've seen good ZSS's pick my early escape and hit me with another shot in the air or run to an u-smash. Either way they can use this gun effectively so it should be avoided.

The like to be aggressive after you have been aggressive if that makes sense. As soon as the momentum swings a little in their favour, a barrage of whips and aerials will rain down like fire on you. So avoid aerials as she has quick high jumps, so she can get to you fast.

Commonly Used Moves:

Side B- A pretty consistently killing move. Large knockback. THis can pose a problem for Sonic approaching with an SDR

Up B: Zamus tether and 0% killer, tho its hard to 0% kill Sonic.

Nuetral B: Her paralysing laser. THe can combo into this like crazy with grabs and aerials if they can predict your behaviour.

DownSmash: Similar paralysing function as the laser. Use for combo killing with the side b
How to Win:

Ok, the first issue is what to do with those darn armour pieces. They are high knockback and high damage, which can be a problem. I propose a couple of options (adapted from those who have posted on the subject).
1. Shield you way closer and closer to ZSS. The odds are when you approach, she'll hurl one at you. So shield it. After this you have a few options. Depending on how close you are, you can make a mad dash into a dash attack, hurt her and grab a piece at the same time. Or you can continue to shield approach. The speed of the spinshot as well will also provide a moment in time where ZSS will be relatively unable to hit you. But it should be stated that you should either use them to your advantage or just get rid of the ruddy things. I like to use them as I feel Sonic smoothness in picking up items almost unconsciously goes well here (unlike against Snakes nades).

Lets see. First thing you have to do when you start up the match is make sure you are ready to dash attack and airdodge and stuff. Why? Because a good ZSS is going to spam her armour peices like heck at the beggining of the round. So like you would when facing a Diddy or grenade happy snake, use dash attack alot to grab those metal projectile. Be wary of them also, because they bounce and can basically go really far. Basically, avoid the initial item spam, as a ZSS might try to keep it going for as long as possible
-Napilopez


An ASC-landing can clang with/eat the projectile, but F-airs are more reliable for eating the stungun. They do have pretty scary followups out-of-stun, so watch out, especially when you're at 100-130% - a fail and a stun and you're dead.

Edgehogging is nice sometimes, but don't always count on it. If she's in range of the level to down-B back to the stage, then assume she'll do it- bait it out by jumping like you're gonna go for the edge, then jump back and be ready to hit her out of it. Just watch out for the kick, since it has... very ... strong knockback, unlike a sexkick.

Her whip has a blindspot if you're too close/too low, and you can literally just run through it after that point lol.
-Tenki

The next thing I would like to outline is a bit sketchy and it involves....mindgames. Yes Sonic is supposed to be riddled with mindgames but in this scenario, mindgames are just variety. A good ZSS will adapt to how you play preeetty quickly, her moves allow her to change style from an aerial to ground fairly seemlessly. So here's the point.
Try and bait her into different attacks. ZSS's attack generally are only usable in 1 or 2 given situations, so if you fake into a situation (ie charge cancel your side b) you can trick her into doing the wrong move. And that's how you win. Say the last 3 approaches you have dashed attacked and hit ZSS, what are you going to do this stand-off, you know she is waiting for it... So dash in as far as you can an jump or spinshot, sidebhop if you have to and get in and punish the lag she has when she tries to side b you. Simplisticly explained but you get the idea.
If you are always homing attacking to punish her and she catches on hit her with an ASC...

Here's ROOOY! on some more specifics:

Try get her below the stage. Be in mind that Sonic's dair outprioritizes both her upsmash and Up B, so that's pretty good for gimping. Approaching from the air is also easier because of this.
Zamus is like one of the only characters who can gimp Sonic, which is a pain. She can do it to all characters, but be wary when recovering from a below via a spring that a Zamus can Stun Gun you to a Down B spike. Basically, don't recover too close to the stage, and more importantly use variety in your recovery techniques.
Cancel approaches a lot. This is obvious because Zamus outranges Sonic. She will knock you out of grounded approaches if you are predictable and not mix it up.
I tend to stray away from spin approaches in this match-up and bait out laggy moves like grab and Paralyzer Whip which Sonic has the speed to punish with like a dash attack or a grab, though probably the latter because I'm a grab *****.
Once you're up close, Sonic does pretty well. IIRC, her Side B (Paralyzer Whip) will not hit you if you're close to her, so rushing her for an approach doesn't seem like a bad idea.
Sonic has the speed to mess with ZSS's parts (lol) but good players throw them upwards and so make it kinda risky to move in.
The game is very momentum-based.
The beginning is crucial - if Sonic knows how to use them well and manages to take control of them, the armor pieces become a liability to ZSS. Sonic has one of, if not, the longest glide throw slides in the game, meaning he can do approaching slides while neutralizing your paralyzer, set up edgeguards to supplement his gimp game, retreat while attacking, as well as gaining a projectile to extend his reach. His speed can make taking control of items an issue.

PARALYZER...works. For the most part.

However, it is completely destroyed by Sonic's F-air. But don't feel bad, his F-air outprioritizes MK's side-B. Homing attack also tends to punish immobile shooters, so don't be TOO reliant on it.
Missed grabs are bad, but everyone knows that already. However, if he does a move with commitment to it (smashes, dash attack, initial charge to spindashes), you can grab him out of that, and accurate grabs are super effective.
Spotdodges are good, but aren't too abusable against a Sonic player, since many of his moves can cancel and have multiple ways of breaking out and punishing, or baiting moves and punishing your attacks.

You cant roll around as much as you like to against ZSS, she will punish you. Play the basics and punish her lag with smashes or tilts.

Recommended Stages:
NOT BATTLEFIELD: I hate to say it again, but battlefield has got 'strand me on the platforms' written all over it. Sure our -usmash can go thru a platform if needed, but zamus is alot taller and her whip goes alot higher then we can jump. As well as her gun, we aren't at an ideal distance, and have to stand relatively closer all the time. This increases our chances of being hit, and if we dodge it we either end up on a platform (bad) or infront of them (ok if they didnt see it coming)
So its up to you, it's just tricky to maneuvre is all.

FINAL DESTINATION: Here we are again. This one has always been good for Sonics, and almost always will be. We have enough room to dodge her projectiles and get in a spot that favours us afterwards. Just be careful, you still cant roll around as much as you used to, her whip will own you.

Matchup Summary: 60:40 ZSS

Well, let's see what my basic crappy *** knowledge about ZSS says... =O
She has a pretty good projectile that can stun aka stun gun.
She has some problems killin like sonic.
Her D-smash only hits in front so punish from the back should she use it?
Her side-B is a good kill move though. =O

Ahh ZSS... I have mixed opinions about this one.

Lets see. First thing you have to do when you start up the match is make sure you are ready to dash attack and airdodge and stuff. Why? Because a good ZSS is going to spam her armour peices like heck at the beggining of the round. So like you would when facing a Diddy or grenade happy snake, use dash attack alot to grab those metal projectile. Be wary of them also, because they bounce and can basically go really far. Basically, avoid the initial item spam, as a ZSS might try to keep it going for as long as possible.

Now, once that is dealt with...
Sonic is fortunate that her stungun is both really slow and not too far-reaching. A well-timed SideB will go through it. There amy come a point where if you do it enough, the ZSS might become so annoyed he/she just wont use the stun gun that much anymore =P.

Be wary of the range of some of her moves, because you have nothing to outrange her fsmash or SideB. Her UpB spikes, but that shouldn't be a huge problem for Sonic.

Tether Recovery. Edgehog her. She can use her SideB for recovery, but if she's well below the stage, she's going to need to use upB, which is when you can edgehog. That tether has alot of range tho...

Umm I can't think of anything else. I find SideB to come very much in handy in this matchup because many of her long range moves have enough lag that you can use Invincibility frames and hatnot to punish her.

I think ASC is a good choice for this match-up, although I can't remember very well. She seems to have a weak spot approaching diagonally. (Please confirm, because I hadn't played a good ZSS for a long time until saturday, in which I only played a few matches).

Napilopez said:

Ahh ZSS... I have mixed opinions about this one.

Lets see. First thing you have to do when you start up the match is make sure you are ready to dash attack and airdodge and stuff. Why? Because a good ZSS is going to spam her armour peices like heck at the beggining of the round. So like you would when facing a Diddy or grenade happy snake, use dash attack alot to grab those metal projectile. Be wary of them also, because they bounce and can basically go really far. Basically, avoid the initial item spam, as a ZSS might try to keep it going for as long as possible.

Now, once that is dealt with...
Sonic is fortunate that her stungun is both really slow and not too far-reaching. A well-timed SideB will go through it. There amy come a point where if you do it enough, the ZSS might become so annoyed he/she just wont use the stun gun that much anymore =P.

Be wary of the range of some of her moves, because you have nothing to outrange her fsmash or SideB. Her UpB spikes, but that shouldn't be a huge problem for Sonic.

Tether Recovery. Edgehog her. She can use her SideB for recovery, but if she's well below the stage, she's going to need to use upB, which is when you can edgehog. That tether has alot of range tho...

Umm I can't think of anything else. I find SideB to come very much in handy in this matchup because many of her long range moves have enough lag that you can use Invincibility frames and hatnot to punish her.

I think ASC is a good choice for this match-up, although I can't remember very well. She seems to have a weak spot approaching diagonally. (Please confirm, because I hadn't played a good ZSS for a long time until saturday, in which I only played a few matches).

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Couple of comments to note Napi:

1. I completely agree with Napi's opinion on ZSS's armour parts. I also find if you can get hold of one it is a great way to start controlling the game right from the beginning. You must avoid these, they are really really heavy and painful, it's not hard to rack up 50% with just one piece, so either use them to your advantage or get them the heck off the stage.

2. Stun gun avoidance: The less you get hit by it, the more opportunities there are to punish ZSS, therefore the less she will eventually use it. Unless certain it will hit.

3. Heck no we can't outrange her lol. So this may be a case for a SDJ into an aerial if she trys to hit you as you roll. Or even a homing attack would punish some whiplash lag. Dair'd work, just don't miss.

4. It should be mentioned that her down B can be used to recovered essentially as well. She has a few options, but with good timing, the can be hogged. With bad timing......that up-b will whip you down past the bottom of the stage. So be careful.

5. I definitely agree with that direction for approaching, although it's best to be careful of some of her smashes and tilts just in case.

Ahh woops, I confused here SideB with her downB. I just think SideB=Samus glowy-flippy-jumpy-kicky-thingy because of its mostly horizontal direction. Thats what I meant when I was speaking of "She can use her SideB for recovery" I meant to say DownB, woops =P

I really really don't like her armor. Just to reiterate Greeny's point, grab hold of her armour peices. As soon as she throws one to you catch it and use it against her. Because of Sonic's superior speed(its not just superior... its... ULTIMATE!), really long dash attack, plus his totally pwnsome glide toss, Sonic should actually have an advantage when it comes to throwing the armour pieces, given that you don't allow ZSS to remain with all of the other pieces.

Really, those things hurt.

Hmm I thought you might have lol.

Napilopez said:

Ahh ZSS... I have mixed opinions about this one.

[1]Lets see. First thing you have to do when you start up the match is make sure you are ready to dash attack and airdodge and stuff. Why? Because a good ZSS is going to spam her armour peices like heck at the beggining of the round. So like you would when facing a Diddy or grenade happy snake, use dash attack alot to grab those metal projectile. Be wary of them also, because they bounce and can basically go really far. Basically, avoid the initial item spam, as a ZSS might try to keep it going for as long as possible.

[2]Now, once that is dealt with...
Sonic is fortunate that her stungun is both really slow and not too far-reaching. A well-timed SideB will go through it. There amy come a point where if you do it enough, the ZSS might become so annoyed he/she just wont use the stun gun that much anymore =P.

Be wary of the range of some of her moves, because you have nothing to outrange her fsmash or SideB. Her UpB spikes, but that shouldn't be a huge problem for Sonic.

[3]Tether Recovery. Edgehog her. She can use her SideB for recovery, but if she's well below the stage, she's going to need to use upB, which is when you can edgehog. That tether has alot of range tho...

[4]Umm I can't think of anything else. I find SideB to come very much in handy in this matchup because many of her long range moves have enough lag that you can use Invincibility frames and hatnot to punish her.

I think ASC is a good choice for this match-up, although I can't remember very well. She seems to have a weak spot approaching diagonally. (Please confirm, because I hadn't played a good ZSS for a long time until saturday, in which I only played a few matches).

Click to expand...

1) Good ZSS players, like Diddy players, won't just waste the armor pieces and throw them at you if they're in a position to be lost if avoided, unless they're purposely trying to get rid of them. D-throw/U-throw armor allows the owner of the armor to have a defensive aura/move bait (airdodge or attack done to catch it). The beginning of my matches against ZSS players usually do revolve around item control or playing around them (lol, like playing 'chicken' to see who does the move to pick up/catch an armor pieces first.

2) An ASC-landing can clang with/eat the projectile, but F-airs are more reliable for eating the stungun. They do have pretty scary followups out-of-stun, so watch out, especially when you're at 100-130% - a fail and a stun and you're dead.

3) Edgehogging is nice sometimes, but don't always count on it. If she's in range of the level to down-B back to the stage, then assume she'll do it- bait it out by jumping like you're gonna go for the edge, then jump back and be ready to hit her out of it. Just watch out for the kick, since it has... very ... strong knockback, unlike a sexkick.

4) Her whip has a blindspot if you're too close/too low, and you can literally just run through it after that point lol.

To start with I didn't know Zamus' Down B spiked. The first time it happened I just kinda stared at the screen stunned.
Try get her below the stage. Be in mind that Sonic's dair outprioritizes both her upsmash and Up B, so that's pretty good for gimping. Approaching from the air is also easier because of this.
Zamus is like one of the only characters who can gimp Sonic, which is a pain. She can do it to all characters, but be wary when recovering from a below via a spring that a Zamus can Stun Gun you to a Down B spike. Basically, don't recover too close to the stage, and more importantly use variety in your recovery techniques.
Cancel approaches a lot. This is obvious because Zamus outranges Sonic. She will knock you out of grounded approaches if you are predictable and not mix it up.
I tend to stray away from spin approaches in this match-up and bait out laggy moves like grab and Paralyzer Whip which Sonic has the speed to punish with like a dash attack or a grab, though probably the latter because I'm a grab whore.
Once you're up close, Sonic does pretty well. IIRC, her Side B (Paralyzer Whip) will not hit you if you're close to her, so rushing her for an approach doesn't seem like a bad idea.
Sonic has the speed to mess with ZSS's parts (lol) but good players throw them upwards and so make it kinda risky to move in.
It's old, it's outdated, but meh.
http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=171377
Ignore the MASSIVE bias on ZSS' mains part to start with haha. And prepare for the massive walls of text on the second page from ShadowLink84 and Tenki. I'm about to pick through the thread now to find stuff that may be useful.
Anyway, I have quite a bit of experience on this match-up and have to say I see it as dead even, 50:50. (or maybe like 51.24:48.76 or something lol)
It's just that Zamus needs to space well against Sonic to stop him walking all over her, and with Sonic's speed it often proves difficult for her.

1000th post? I think so.

Edit, a few points, credited to Tenki.

Alright, so after playing against Snakeee a bunch more in the past month or so (wifi, sorry guys), I'll settle on this being an even matchup.

There are certain things to be taken into account aside from the usual Sonic disadvantages (priority,range,weight,projectile), so I'll try to address them.

The game is very momentum-based.
The beginning is crucial - if Sonic knows how to use them well and manages to take control of them, the armor pieces become a liability to ZSS. Sonic has one of, if not, the longest glide throw slides in the game, meaning he can do approaching slides while neutralizing your paralyzer, set up edgeguards to supplement his gimp game, retreat while attacking, as well as gaining a projectile to extend his reach. His speed can make taking control of items an issue.

PARALYZER...works. For the most part.

However, it is completely destroyed by Sonic's F-air. But don't feel bad, his F-air outprioritizes MK's side-B. Homing attack also tends to punish immobile shooters, so don't be TOO reliant on it.

Missed grabs are bad, but everyone knows that already. However, if he does a move with commitment to it (smashes, dash attack, initial charge to spindashes), you can grab him out of that, and accurate grabs are super effective.

Spotdodges are good, but aren't too abusable against a Sonic player, since many of his moves can cancel and have multiple ways of breaking out and punishing, or baiting moves and punishing your attacks.

If anything, some Sonic players prefer to D-air out of spring. If it's a grounded spring, you can camp the landing (it's about roll distance from the spring) with your punishment move of choice.

Other than that, I think the whole 'whoever gets under who' is pretty much right for ZSS. I play a pretty sh/ground-based game and less on juggling, but ZSS definitely feels like she has the advantage in an anti-aerial game.

Tenki said:

1) Good ZSS players, like Diddy players, won't just waste the armor pieces and throw them at you if they're in a position to be lost if avoided, unless they're purposely trying to get rid of them. D-throw/U-throw armor allows the owner of the armor to have a defensive aura/move bait (airdodge or attack done to catch it). The beginning of my matches against ZSS players usually do revolve around item control or playing around them (lol, like playing 'chicken' to see who does the move to pick up/catch an armor pieces first.

2) An ASC-landing can clang with/eat the projectile, but F-airs are more reliable for eating the stungun. They do have pretty scary followups out-of-stun, so watch out, especially when you're at 100-130% - a fail and a stun and you're dead.

3) Edgehogging is nice sometimes, but don't always count on it. If she's in range of the level to side-B back to the stage, then assume she'll do it- bait it out by jumping like you're gonna go for the edge, then jump back and be ready to hit her out of it. Just watch out for the kick, since it has... very ... strong knockback, unlike a sexkick.

4) Her whip has a blindspot if you're too close/too low, and you can literally just run through it after that point lol.

Click to expand...

1) Yea I think I exagerated the spamming of the armor pieces. But still, unlike diddy, ZSS has more than just 2 items to work with, so she is likely to start throwing some of them, while trying to keep one or two pieces in her control. It depends a bit on the style of the ZSS but, I generally find them throwing a few items at you, up or down, and then keep another one in her hands. Whatever the case may be, just don't get hit.

2) Hmm I don't tend to use fair from the ground on lighter characters anymore, so thats definately something to keep in mind. Her Stungun combos can be quite scary. Can you DI out of her Dsmash stun? When I was playing that ZSS a couple of days ago, when I tried to escape the Dsmash, I was followed up by an aerial, so I'm curious since I haven't had a tremendous amount of experience in this match-up in a long time.

3) Tenki, I think you confused her DownB with SideB as well =P.
I don't see enough peoples using the insta-edgegrab, myself included. If you know ZSS has to edgehog, then it comes in handy.


Oh I forgot that her Dair spikes -_-. No fair! Theyre like the same animation, but she spikes and you dont =/.

"Oh I forgot that her Dair spikes -_-. No fair! Theyre like the same animation, but she spikes and you dont =/."

Ours also lasts like forever while yours doesn't and Sonic's probably has more priority. I'll trade D-airs anyday XD.

I'm actually starting to think the match up may be ZSS' favor. There doesn't seem to be a real solid way for him to approach anymore now that I know the match up better. I can almost always up air or back air out of shield after his B attacks hit my shield. Another big factor is the difference in KO ability as ZSS has a lot more options to KO.

Did you end up making the export thread Chis? And did it link to here?

Snakeee said:

"Oh I forgot that her Dair spikes -_-. No fair! Theyre like the same animation, but she spikes and you dont =/."

Ours also lasts like forever while yours doesn't and Sonic's probably has more priority. I'll trade D-airs anyday XD.

I'm actually starting to think the match up may be ZSS' favor. There doesn't seem to be a real solid way for him to approach anymore now that I know the match up better. I can almost always up air or back air out of shield after his B attacks hit my shield. Another big factor is the difference in KO ability as ZSS has a lot more options to KO.

Click to expand...

`.`; Yeah, it does feel that way. Or it did feel that way the last time we fought.

rofl I was like "dayum, when did he learn those moves?"

>_> just you wait, I'll counter-learn the matchup as it exists currently and avenge myself lol.

PS. Greenstreet, change the title, silly.

Greenstreet said:

Did you end up making the export thread Chis? And did it link to here?

Click to expand...

Yes, I made the thread and linked it here.

Cheers Tenki. I completely forgot. Updating this tonight, been a bit lazy, was working on a Make Your Move Set...
So yer...
Still anyone volunteering yet?

Volunteering for what? ^^

Snakeee said:

Another big factor is the difference in KO ability as ZSS has a lot more options to KO.

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Which of Zamus' moves are KO moves? I'm not doubting you, I'm just curious because a lot of ZSS mains I know seem to be insistant on killing with the Side B whip.
I have limited knowledge of Zamus, but I thought she was pretty lacking in KO moves too. Other than Side B, I can only think of fair as having killing potential (the second kick, the first one has bad knockback.)
Gimping Sonic isn't really an option here, with the whole Paralyzer Gun to Flip Kick spike deal. It'll only happen if the Sonic makes a mistake.

Anyway, stages?
I still think Battlefield is Sonic's worst stage, but I think he suffers on it against Zamus too. She has attacks with good vertical range, which will pick you out the air and off platforms if you get stranded on them. Again, it limits you to a ground approach, and with ZSS' range on the ground it's not easy. You need to cancel approaches a lot if you're on this stage. On another note, it stops you punishing things like her stun gun with Homing Attack because platforms will get in your way.

Good stages? I'm not sure. I've had a lot of success on Yoshi's Island and Smashville, not too sure why. I'll try playing again Zamus more soon for better stage things and match-up advice in general.