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Sonic The Hedgehog: Community Matchup thread
- Thread starter Chis
- Start date
Napilopez
Smash Lord
Well, I think it would be easier if we could use distances relative to FD
Again, Sonic takes a second at most to cross FD. Although my method wasn't exactly the most accurae approach(timing it with a stop watch at 1x, 1/2x, and 1/4x), they gave me a result of basically very slightly below one second. Thats about 55 frames, like DJ browny said in his thread. For simplification we can assume its 60 frames. A fourth of FD is about from the center to the inside angle of the first arrow to the left or the right. He can cover that in a fourth of a second, or 15 frames, as fast as some of his smashes come out, which is why grabbing should be such an important part to Sonic's games, because a failed grab is harder to punish than a failed smash, and you are less likely to fail the grab anyways. A grab with Sonic could easily lead to 20+ damage. So yea. Run and grab.
Yay off topic!
Dark Sonic
Smash Hero
A lot of other tests say that too (across FD in 60 frames), so I guess it's kinda reliable. Why exactly aren't we using this in matchup discussions (such and such move is punishable by a grab, because sonic is fast enough to punish, ect.)?
Umby
Smash Master
Needs more Kirby mains ins this thread.
Because we didn't have those numbers yet. All we have to do now is apply those numbers to other characters' attacks, and then we might actually be able to use this stuff to our advantage in matchup discussions.
You know, it's kinda hard to hold this thread when the title isn't changing lol. It won't attract mains of whoever we're discussing, because all they see is: Matchup ... Marth
x.x;
Dark Sonic
Smash Hero
Don't we have mods that can change the thread title for us?
edit: Who's our next discussion on? I'll just P.M. Silent Wolf or something and ask him to change the thread title.
edit: Who's our next discussion on? I'll just P.M. Silent Wolf or something and ask him to change the thread title.
Umby
Smash Master
I kinda like being a Marth secondary.
Can ya make one in the kirby section?
Do you know how many Sonic mains are out there? Like, not many. Well, not many good ones anyway. With that said, I just wanted to let you know that I haven't thouroughly explored this matchup having only played NoR4U's Sonic, and various non-Sonic mains' Sonics.
First of all, Sonic can be combo'd like an average character. His weight and size attribute this. Yes, he can pop out a spring in the middle of a combo, but that's not a biggie. In fact, that's about all this matchup amounts to: Sonic tries not to get combo'd by Kirby, or hit by something nasty that will KO him.
I really don't know what Sonic does in retaliation. He runs around alot and says "Go!" and "You're too slow!" while trying to land a hit here and there. Whenever Sonic gets Kirby into the air, he always goes for U-air, even when everyone knows it he still tries to go for it. Kirby's Stone isn't going to counter that because it's sorta slow, but if it lands it can KO easily since it's a strong vertical hit at the top of the screen. But, really, all Kirby has to do is DI and either Air Dodge any U-air, or just kick Sonic on his way back down. Sonic really doesn't have much of an advantage in the air.
On that subject, Kirby's B-air pretty much eats through anything Sonic has. I'll even start using Kirby's other aerials like the f-air, d-air, and even the n-air because I can get away with it. I don't think Sonic's that much more of a threat on the ground. Yes, he's fast. Yes, he has blue-spinning fake-out things. No, nothing he has is scary. All Kirby has to do is go in there and hit Sonic. If Sonic's doing a blue fake-out thingy, he gets hit. If he's doing a real attack, he gets hit. Obviously the Kirby player has to have some sort of experience in this fight, or he might act confuzzled and let Sonic dance around getting hits here and there and Kirby won't get enough hits of his own in... next thing he knows, he's at 200% an is close to getting KO'd by Sonic's f-tilt, or whatever it is that he uses to KO.
Using Spring immediately after Kirby uses Copy will hit Kirby. I don't think Kirby can avoid this if Sonic times the spring fast enough. I can't really see this ever happening because Sonic tastes really bad and Kirby will just spit him out - dealing extra damage for the Star Shot is far more appetizing than getting a blue hedgehog hat that really doesn't do anything useful; not to mention getting konked by a spring to the noggin is not fun.
Kirby's recovery is good. It's not amazing, but it's enough to get him back to the stage while avoiding anything Sonic throws at him. What Sonic has to watch out for is getting kicked if he aggressively jumps out and tries to attack Kirby on the stage. Kirby will usually go for f-air, b-air, or u-air if Sonic jumps out after him. He might even whip out the ol' Hammer for a Giant Swing (up to 17%). I don't know how strong Sonic's aerials are, but if you can get a clean hit on Kirby, maybe Sonic can get the KO this way?
All in all I agree this is about a 40-60 matchup in Kirby's favor. It would probably be a whole lot more in Kirby's favor, but Sonic runs around, drops springs, and counterpicks large levels to draw things out longer, which gives him more time to build up damage and get KOs, especially when Kirby gets restless and starts acting more offensive just to get the game over with faster.
First of all, Sonic can be combo'd like an average character. His weight and size attribute this. Yes, he can pop out a spring in the middle of a combo, but that's not a biggie. In fact, that's about all this matchup amounts to: Sonic tries not to get combo'd by Kirby, or hit by something nasty that will KO him.
I really don't know what Sonic does in retaliation. He runs around alot and says "Go!" and "You're too slow!" while trying to land a hit here and there. Whenever Sonic gets Kirby into the air, he always goes for U-air, even when everyone knows it he still tries to go for it. Kirby's Stone isn't going to counter that because it's sorta slow, but if it lands it can KO easily since it's a strong vertical hit at the top of the screen. But, really, all Kirby has to do is DI and either Air Dodge any U-air, or just kick Sonic on his way back down. Sonic really doesn't have much of an advantage in the air.
On that subject, Kirby's B-air pretty much eats through anything Sonic has. I'll even start using Kirby's other aerials like the f-air, d-air, and even the n-air because I can get away with it. I don't think Sonic's that much more of a threat on the ground. Yes, he's fast. Yes, he has blue-spinning fake-out things. No, nothing he has is scary. All Kirby has to do is go in there and hit Sonic. If Sonic's doing a blue fake-out thingy, he gets hit. If he's doing a real attack, he gets hit. Obviously the Kirby player has to have some sort of experience in this fight, or he might act confuzzled and let Sonic dance around getting hits here and there and Kirby won't get enough hits of his own in... next thing he knows, he's at 200% an is close to getting KO'd by Sonic's f-tilt, or whatever it is that he uses to KO.
Using Spring immediately after Kirby uses Copy will hit Kirby. I don't think Kirby can avoid this if Sonic times the spring fast enough. I can't really see this ever happening because Sonic tastes really bad and Kirby will just spit him out - dealing extra damage for the Star Shot is far more appetizing than getting a blue hedgehog hat that really doesn't do anything useful; not to mention getting konked by a spring to the noggin is not fun.
Kirby's recovery is good. It's not amazing, but it's enough to get him back to the stage while avoiding anything Sonic throws at him. What Sonic has to watch out for is getting kicked if he aggressively jumps out and tries to attack Kirby on the stage. Kirby will usually go for f-air, b-air, or u-air if Sonic jumps out after him. He might even whip out the ol' Hammer for a Giant Swing (up to 17%). I don't know how strong Sonic's aerials are, but if you can get a clean hit on Kirby, maybe Sonic can get the KO this way?
All in all I agree this is about a 40-60 matchup in Kirby's favor. It would probably be a whole lot more in Kirby's favor, but Sonic runs around, drops springs, and counterpicks large levels to draw things out longer, which gives him more time to build up damage and get KOs, especially when Kirby gets restless and starts acting more offensive just to get the game over with faster.
da K.I.D.
Smash Hero
i appreciate this post because he states flat out that he doesnt know what sonic does and also doesnt care because of the simple fact that sonic is a bad character and kirby is a good character, basing his knowledge on the one sonic that he plays with.
the only refutation that i will make to this post is that personally i counter pick the smallest levels in the game, so that i dont have to get my opponent to 200+ damage to kill them
the only refutation that i will make to this post is that personally i counter pick the smallest levels in the game, so that i dont have to get my opponent to 200+ damage to kill them
ROOOOY!
Smash Master
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Appreciation sarcasm?
Seriously, if you don't know the match-up, then why post?
Frankly you lost all credibility when you said Sonic has to take a LIGHT WEIGHT CHARACTER up to 200%. That shit was silly.
Seriously, if you don't know the match-up, then why post?
Frankly you lost all credibility when you said Sonic has to take a LIGHT WEIGHT CHARACTER up to 200%. That shit was silly.
Napilopez
Smash Lord
This is going to be a short post, but ftilt is very nice in this matchup, as it is in any. lol. If you manage to actually catch kirby with an Fair, then you cand o some good stuffies out of there as well.
Also, sonic has one major advantage over kirby.
Djbrowny stage spike.
LOL
Also, sonic has one major advantage over kirby.
Djbrowny stage spike.
LOL
tasty.
I can't really rate ..nor hate NoR4U, but I was the one who showed him those silly cancel tricks on wifi. We had bad lag, so I limited it to a "hay, try these tricks" game instead of a real match. He seemed pretty amazed by it at the time, so if he's the one who you're basing your usage of spin cancels on, he might not have developed it too far =/
On the flip side, similar to how "lol i'm above sonic, he's gonna U-air me" is common, "lol i'm gonna airdodge because i'm above sonic" is also a common reaction. It's kinda funny to U-throw someone, not jump out, and grab them again after their reflexive airdodge, since Sonic will 'always u-air' when you're above him. Or running, jumping through the airdodge, and landing a sweetspot B-air. Silly mindgames. Is it really mindgames, or is it that you fight really predictable Sonic players that you'd think that?
I'm not sure how you hit Sonic out of a 'blue fakeout'/ spin cancel, considering that when you cancel a spin, you end up in a shield, but you're right, most characters can just use an aerial and stop Sonic's moves.
wtf@ counterpicking large levels. I really can't... comprehend how that works out in a serious match. It makes me think of that stupid video where someone using Sonic played on New Pork City and ran away the whole game. Or playing a scrubby friend as Link when he used Sonic on Bridge of Eldin, and wasting 3-4 minutes jumping across the freaking gap because he kept going above/across the stage on his last stock.
---------------------------------------------
Anyway, my rants/personal ideas aside, the only real matchup info to take from this is:
- Kirby's aerials/aerial game > Sonic (..yep)
- Kirby can KO Sonic pretty early. (F-smash, Stone, if you're sloppy)
Oh, and this silly idea I had that I didn't get to test: is it possible to SDI out of Kirby's F-throw>U-air>re-grab starter combo?
[note] this has nothing to do with the matchup:
I can't really rate ..nor hate NoR4U, but I was the one who showed him those silly cancel tricks on wifi. We had bad lag, so I limited it to a "hay, try these tricks" game instead of a real match. He seemed pretty amazed by it at the time, so if he's the one who you're basing your usage of spin cancels on, he might not have developed it too far =/
On the flip side, similar to how "lol i'm above sonic, he's gonna U-air me" is common, "lol i'm gonna airdodge because i'm above sonic" is also a common reaction. It's kinda funny to U-throw someone, not jump out, and grab them again after their reflexive airdodge, since Sonic will 'always u-air' when you're above him. Or running, jumping through the airdodge, and landing a sweetspot B-air. Silly mindgames. Is it really mindgames, or is it that you fight really predictable Sonic players that you'd think that?
I'm not sure how you hit Sonic out of a 'blue fakeout'/ spin cancel, considering that when you cancel a spin, you end up in a shield, but you're right, most characters can just use an aerial and stop Sonic's moves.
wtf@ counterpicking large levels. I really can't... comprehend how that works out in a serious match. It makes me think of that stupid video where someone using Sonic played on New Pork City and ran away the whole game. Or playing a scrubby friend as Link when he used Sonic on Bridge of Eldin, and wasting 3-4 minutes jumping across the freaking gap because he kept going above/across the stage on his last stock.
---------------------------------------------
Anyway, my rants/personal ideas aside, the only real matchup info to take from this is:
- Kirby's aerials/aerial game > Sonic (..yep)
- Kirby can KO Sonic pretty early. (F-smash, Stone, if you're sloppy)
Oh, and this silly idea I had that I didn't get to test: is it possible to SDI out of Kirby's F-throw>U-air>re-grab starter combo?
Napilopez
Smash Lord
Greenstreet
Smash Champion
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sorry its been a while since i was in here. my last assignment is due oct 10th. so itll probly be then that i start runnin this thing again. once again, sorry, but yer, priorities 
Also if u guys are done with marth. i'll update him wen i finish these assignments, if some1 could start a new post for the next person thatd b fine. then we wud actually get moving again quicker.
Also if u guys are done with marth. i'll update him wen i finish these assignments, if some1 could start a new post for the next person thatd b fine. then we wud actually get moving again quicker.
Umby
Smash Master
Hey, come on now. The guy already has credibility in general for being a Kirby player. It should be appreciated that he shares his opinion, however limited his information may be.
He might not know that matchup as it relates to above average Sonics, but he does offer reliable (both completely and somewhat) information that he didn't really have to make a tl;dr post about.
But yeah, some of the stuff he does offer is kinda silly.
Dark Sonic
Smash Hero
Anther's Sonic is terrible (going by the vid anyway, maybe he was having an off match?)
edit: Wow timmy. I know you're a pretty good Kirby player, but the Sonic you've been fighting must be terrible.
edit: Wow timmy. I know you're a pretty good Kirby player, but the Sonic you've been fighting must be terrible.
He was still right about the aerials defeating most of Sonic's attacks, though, I'm sure that's a given in this matchup, anyway. Aerial Kirby is quite a pain in the butt, if he doesn't waste moves. (eg, F-air when it's possible for Sonic to run under or jump over, D-air if Sonic can hit from the side, etc).
Napilopez
Smash Lord
KIRBAY TIMEAZ:
KIRBY - Character Matchup 7
Introduction
Kirby had been confirmed for Super Smash Bros. Brawl since the first preview shown at E3 in May 2006. Of all the characters shown, Kirby appears to be almost completely unchanged graphically. It was speculated that Kirby's up smash may be stronger, his attacks seem to be quicker in general, and he is apparently somewhat heavier than before.
He ranks 14th on the Tier List-- which is significantly higher than his rank of 25th in Melee, above only Pichu--, thanks to his overall solid matchups, a good combo ability, and being a solid character choice all around. Being near-even with Meta Knight has helped his rankings.
His Final Smash is Cook Kirby, which is reminiscent of the Cook ability seen in various Kirby games. In the games, Cook Kirby clashes his utensils, tosses opponents into a pot, seasons them, stirs, and finally, items pop out of the pot.
Behaviour:
Final Cutter won't be so useful on-stage, since Sonic's speed allows him to run up, powershield the wave, and punish Kirby's horrible ending lag. Hammer? Well, it's situational, but it has decent range, and since sonic has no disjointed hitboxes (that I know of) a well-spaced hammer can be great.
Pro1: Actually, Kirby's B-air (back aerial) is really good for controlling spacing, or beating you out of your moves.
Pro2: way... wrong. Kirby's Forward Smash is frighteningly strong.
Tenki
Commonly Used Moves:
Starshot: It's possible to break out of this almost ASAP by doing an attack, or hitting jump. On an interesting note, from fighting a certain Dedede player, it might not always be to your advantage to break out of it ASAP.
Hammer: It's notable that aerial hammer has two swings. I've been caught by that when I was less familiar with this matchup. I'm not sure what extent it hits above or below it though.
Low% chaingrabs: I've fought a few Kirby mains online as well, and it doesn't seem like the low% chaingrabs are escapable by any moves. I'm not sure if it's possible to SDI the U-air/D-tilt to an extent that makes a difference though.
(wop) B-air: Susceptible to attacks from above (?), or just landcamping, probably.
-fsmash will kill you faster than you can say "I'm too cheap!"
-dsmash: is also good, though not used as often. I'm not positive exactly, but I think dsmash sends you flying vertically when Kirby's body is touching you, and horizontally when the edge of his foot touches you.
How to Win:
Recommended Stages:
Matchup Summary:
---------------------------------------------------------
...
His pikachu is amazing. And scary.
KIRBY - Character Matchup 7
Introduction
Kirby had been confirmed for Super Smash Bros. Brawl since the first preview shown at E3 in May 2006. Of all the characters shown, Kirby appears to be almost completely unchanged graphically. It was speculated that Kirby's up smash may be stronger, his attacks seem to be quicker in general, and he is apparently somewhat heavier than before.
He ranks 14th on the Tier List-- which is significantly higher than his rank of 25th in Melee, above only Pichu--, thanks to his overall solid matchups, a good combo ability, and being a solid character choice all around. Being near-even with Meta Knight has helped his rankings.
His Final Smash is Cook Kirby, which is reminiscent of the Cook ability seen in various Kirby games. In the games, Cook Kirby clashes his utensils, tosses opponents into a pot, seasons them, stirs, and finally, items pop out of the pot.
Behaviour:
Final Cutter won't be so useful on-stage, since Sonic's speed allows him to run up, powershield the wave, and punish Kirby's horrible ending lag. Hammer? Well, it's situational, but it has decent range, and since sonic has no disjointed hitboxes (that I know of) a well-spaced hammer can be great.
Pro1: Actually, Kirby's B-air (back aerial) is really good for controlling spacing, or beating you out of your moves.
Pro2: way... wrong. Kirby's Forward Smash is frighteningly strong.
Tenki
Commonly Used Moves:
Starshot: It's possible to break out of this almost ASAP by doing an attack, or hitting jump. On an interesting note, from fighting a certain Dedede player, it might not always be to your advantage to break out of it ASAP.
Hammer: It's notable that aerial hammer has two swings. I've been caught by that when I was less familiar with this matchup. I'm not sure what extent it hits above or below it though.
Low% chaingrabs: I've fought a few Kirby mains online as well, and it doesn't seem like the low% chaingrabs are escapable by any moves. I'm not sure if it's possible to SDI the U-air/D-tilt to an extent that makes a difference though.
(wop) B-air: Susceptible to attacks from above (?), or just landcamping, probably.
-fsmash will kill you faster than you can say "I'm too cheap!"
-dsmash: is also good, though not used as often. I'm not positive exactly, but I think dsmash sends you flying vertically when Kirby's body is touching you, and horizontally when the edge of his foot touches you.
How to Win:
Recommended Stages:
Matchup Summary:
---------------------------------------------------------
Twas his first time using Sonic in a tourny, he says he was nervous XD.
...
His pikachu is amazing. And scary.
Dark Sonic
Smash Hero
True. Very, Very true.
Boxob
Smash Champion
Dark Sonic
Smash Hero
So, are we doing Kirby next or something.
And Boxob, get a smaller picture, or better yet, don't post it at all. We have a steak thread already.
This is a matchup thread, not a spam thread.
And Boxob, get a smaller picture, or better yet, don't post it at all. We have a steak thread already.
This is a matchup thread, not a spam thread.
Boxob
Smash Champion
Dark Sonic
Smash Hero
So seriously, who are we disscussing next? You know, so we could contact the other boards to get them to discuss it too (and likely inform them about a million Sonic misconceptions/discoveries/whatevers).
Dark Sonic
Smash Hero
^^Well, as you know the Marth boards also had a discussion on Sonic, so...really it's just about deciding what numbers to put down (65:35 or 70:30).
Terios the Hedgehog
Smash Hero
Dude. Steak it easy.
Boxob
Smash Champion
How about 60:40
In Sonic's favor.
I've never, ever had a problem with Marth, ever.
In Sonic's favor.
I've never, ever had a problem with Marth, ever.
memphischains
Smash hhkj'
I haven't said it yet...
This thread is borderline ********.
This thread is borderline ********.
Dark Sonic
Smash Hero
Well, just in case any of you were interested, the Pit boards agreed to Sonic vs Pit being 50:50.
Congradulations, you won yesterday.
ROOOOY!
Smash Master
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This thread is completely out of order and is just going to become very broken up and ******** soon.
So to save what could be a good thread, can the first person to comment on the next page please use the standard template for Fox discussion so we can maintain at least some order?
So to save what could be a good thread, can the first person to comment on the next page please use the standard template for Fox discussion so we can maintain at least some order?
Wow, you guys should be glad I'm not a troll, because you jump on every little detail with passion.
Listen to what Teh Umbry said. I didn't have to take my time to write a long post so you guys can see the perspective of a well-traveled Kirby main, but I did anyway.
Yes, I explicitly opened my write-up with the candid statement that I have not played many good Sonic mains. This is because skilled players who exclusively use Sonic as their main are exceedingly rare in high-level tournaments. Out of the major West Coast tournaments that I've attended since Brawl's release (Capitol Brawl, AZ2, OMG, Bio, Axis, GCN1) I've only seen a handful of people even using Sonic, and only about two who were good enough to mention (Hella and NoR4U). Divide that by the dozens/hundreds of people in the tournament, and is it any wonder that I can honestly and openly say that my knowledge of Sonic in 'serious' competition is limited?
You guys can nitpick what I said about the matchup, but from my perspective that's generally how any game with Sonic has gone for me. He has no ranged attacks, his approaches rely on his speed or some sort of feint but everything Sonic has is outdone by practically anything Kirby throws out in response.
In practically every matchup, it is Kirby who is forced on the offensive whether due to facing projectiles or because of priority issues. This is not the case with Sonic. It is the only matchup that I have ever had the advantage of both priority and not having projectiles coming at me. Additionally, his ability to edge guard Kirby is limited, especially considering he lacks a spike of any sort. He also lacks powerful attacks that light characters like Kirby fall victim to should they land (compare to Fox's U-smash, G&W's D-smash, Marth's tippers, Snake's U-tilt, etc, etc).
These are all major disadvantages in a match-up with Kirby. He doesn't even have the floaty "you can't combo me" advantage of light characters like Jigglypuff and Olimar. I really don't have to have years of intense Sonic practice to acknowledge these big, glaring points in a character matchup.
So, in conclusion, please don't brush off what I've said in my two posts simply because you guys disagree on a few details. Pointing the finger at someone who has traveled thousands of miles this year for Brawl tournaments and saying "You don't know the matchup" is very puzzling. Instead you should be wondering why such a popular character such as Sonic has such a low representation at major tournaments that I can only name off two Sonic players I've run across in the last seven months.
Listen to what Teh Umbry said. I didn't have to take my time to write a long post so you guys can see the perspective of a well-traveled Kirby main, but I did anyway.
Yes, I explicitly opened my write-up with the candid statement that I have not played many good Sonic mains. This is because skilled players who exclusively use Sonic as their main are exceedingly rare in high-level tournaments. Out of the major West Coast tournaments that I've attended since Brawl's release (Capitol Brawl, AZ2, OMG, Bio, Axis, GCN1) I've only seen a handful of people even using Sonic, and only about two who were good enough to mention (Hella and NoR4U). Divide that by the dozens/hundreds of people in the tournament, and is it any wonder that I can honestly and openly say that my knowledge of Sonic in 'serious' competition is limited?
You guys can nitpick what I said about the matchup, but from my perspective that's generally how any game with Sonic has gone for me. He has no ranged attacks, his approaches rely on his speed or some sort of feint but everything Sonic has is outdone by practically anything Kirby throws out in response.
In practically every matchup, it is Kirby who is forced on the offensive whether due to facing projectiles or because of priority issues. This is not the case with Sonic. It is the only matchup that I have ever had the advantage of both priority and not having projectiles coming at me. Additionally, his ability to edge guard Kirby is limited, especially considering he lacks a spike of any sort. He also lacks powerful attacks that light characters like Kirby fall victim to should they land (compare to Fox's U-smash, G&W's D-smash, Marth's tippers, Snake's U-tilt, etc, etc).
These are all major disadvantages in a match-up with Kirby. He doesn't even have the floaty "you can't combo me" advantage of light characters like Jigglypuff and Olimar. I really don't have to have years of intense Sonic practice to acknowledge these big, glaring points in a character matchup.
So, in conclusion, please don't brush off what I've said in my two posts simply because you guys disagree on a few details. Pointing the finger at someone who has traveled thousands of miles this year for Brawl tournaments and saying "You don't know the matchup" is very puzzling. Instead you should be wondering why such a popular character such as Sonic has such a low representation at major tournaments that I can only name off two Sonic players I've run across in the last seven months.
^
We didn't brush off everything you said. Just the stuff concerning Sonic's behavior. And maybe that one bit about surviving to 200%, which should never happen unless for some reason he staled out his kill moves (using them too early) or was purposely setting you up for a 'lolpwnd' u-throw kill or something silly like that. And from what it sounds like ("lacks powerful attacks that light characters can fall prey to" from your more recent post), the Sonic players just plain weren't damaging you enough.
Back to the matchup:
Aerial priority and aerial game is still a definite matchup advantage that Kirby has on Sonic, and it's noticeable. Kirby's F-smash kills somewhat early, and Kirby's multiple jumps can be an annoyance when trying to gimp.
Speaking of gimping, how does Kirby's F-air/ "frontal answers" (hammer, N-air, U-air/D-air [?]) match up to things like Sonic's D-air, (overhead) B-air, and spring?
We didn't brush off everything you said. Just the stuff concerning Sonic's behavior. And maybe that one bit about surviving to 200%, which should never happen unless for some reason he staled out his kill moves (using them too early) or was purposely setting you up for a 'lolpwnd' u-throw kill or something silly like that. And from what it sounds like ("lacks powerful attacks that light characters can fall prey to" from your more recent post), the Sonic players just plain weren't damaging you enough.
Back to the matchup:
Aerial priority and aerial game is still a definite matchup advantage that Kirby has on Sonic, and it's noticeable. Kirby's F-smash kills somewhat early, and Kirby's multiple jumps can be an annoyance when trying to gimp.
Speaking of gimping, how does Kirby's F-air/ "frontal answers" (hammer, N-air, U-air/D-air [?]) match up to things like Sonic's D-air, (overhead) B-air, and spring?
ROOOOY!
Smash Master
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Well, I was just pointing out some blatantly wrong things in your statement before. What else would you do, agree or ignore them?
Still living in the days where people said "lolsonci no ragne no priarity lol"? Nice :\
True, but even with full and proper DI, Kirby will be dying from the centre of Final Destination from a fsmash at 120% and upwards. That's not quite the 200% you were making it out to be before, was it? :\
I'm not sure whether you're insinuating that Sonic's either light or easy to combo.
It you mean light, Sonic is an upper midweight, weighing more than characters like Mario and such.
If you mean easy to combo, you've well and truly got us. Sometimes I wish Sonic had a move with really fast start up and invincibility frames that lets Sonic pop vertically up and away from attacks at a good vertical speed... :\
More :\ 4 u.t!MmY; about two hours before said:
Having travelled thousands of miles for Brawl tournaments doesn't actually mean anything for this match-up, at all. In fact, you mentioned that you don't know this match-up fully yet.
And Sonic isn't popular at all. He was at release, but everyone was put pff by how ridiculously hard it is to use him.
No, this wasn't really nit picky.
Walls of multiquote don't feel good and don't help the 'not nitpicky'. Also, Sonic's lolnopriority is still valid in matchup discussions now, with exceptions to certain moves that are up for discussion (in this matchup, B-air/U-air/D-air). We can play around it, but it's still a fact that pretty much all Kirby has to do to stop something is probably jump+aerial.
Quit arguing with him.
He made his contribution already, and even though the parts of it that were fully relevant were somewhat obvious (aerial priority), he finished his contribution and left a disclaimer.
On a more matchup-related note, if Kirby tries to do kirbicide, use HA as soon as you get spit out/escape. It's cool stuff.
An interesting observation
whoop, sorry, just noticed that this was a kirby thread. be right on it.
As far as i can tell,
Pro's
1: Sonic is much faster than kirby, and (If anyone else plays like me) will be in the air a lot. From what i've seen in brawls, kirby lacks good aerials other than his Neutral aerial. You will probably win a battle in the air with kirby.
(1B, as some might not count this one, Sonic's final smash is almost sure to kill kirby every time you get it.)
2: Sonic's smashes have a lot more power than kirby.
3: Sonic is quick enough to get out of range before a good smash is pulled off.
Cons:
1: Kirby can recover from much farther than sonic, and is harder to KO.
2: If kirby get's sonic's homing attack, your aerial combo's can be disrupted (on occasion)
3: Kirby's dash attack is very annoying when you try to start a combo.
In my limited experience, (I've never won a tournament, probably for a lack of them.)
this matchup is much better for sonic than kirby.
Please dont flame me, and constructive rather than destructive critisism please.
whoop, sorry, just noticed that this was a kirby thread. be right on it.
As far as i can tell,
Pro's
1: Sonic is much faster than kirby, and (If anyone else plays like me) will be in the air a lot. From what i've seen in brawls, kirby lacks good aerials other than his Neutral aerial. You will probably win a battle in the air with kirby.
(1B, as some might not count this one, Sonic's final smash is almost sure to kill kirby every time you get it.)
2: Sonic's smashes have a lot more power than kirby.
3: Sonic is quick enough to get out of range before a good smash is pulled off.
Cons:
1: Kirby can recover from much farther than sonic, and is harder to KO.
2: If kirby get's sonic's homing attack, your aerial combo's can be disrupted (on occasion)
3: Kirby's dash attack is very annoying when you try to start a combo.
In my limited experience, (I've never won a tournament, probably for a lack of them.)
this matchup is much better for sonic than kirby.
Please dont flame me, and constructive rather than destructive critisism please.