Perhaps misconception or lack of information would make Marth players tend to not use or overlook some of the upward trajectory moves available over the fabled Forward Smash (tipper or not), Dolphin Slash and maybe Forward Air, all being moves (excluding fsmash tipper) that kill at around the 120% marks... FRESH. And yet, considering how these moves are vital to damage building to a lot of players (Fsmash should always be fresh though), how is Marth able to finish his foes off with a lot more ease?
This topic in itself is a pathway to knowledge on how usable some of your most likely underused moves are; and to break the misconception that Marth is solely, like Meta Knight a horizontal killer.
Where it's truly obvious which of the two are superior in this regard.
Marth's Upward Killers - Synopsis
- Marth's upwards killers are all fast.
- Nearly all of these moves have little punishment if unpredicted. However they themselves should be used for punishment.
- Marth's upward killers KILL at similar percentages to your 'forward' moves or LOWER.
- In general, most people's styles would tend not to use these moves as damage rackers, let alone at all. Thus allowing them to be optimum at the time to kill when looking for an option.
- Unfortunately, most of the hitboxes are not large in range when compared to a character like Snake or any other of Marth's moves in the horizontal plane.
- Many of his upward moves have an irregular amount of hitboxes and damage output, making it hard to properly 'aim' for the kill.
- The moves are designed to kill those above the ground. While many of the moves have hitboxes horizontally, hitboxes around the short hop range are more powerful.
- These moves do not have accurate percent damage representation, 21% damage while a 10% one kills a lot earlier...
- At this point in Brawl's metagame, professionals or people familiar with the Marth match up are expecting forward hitting moves to kill, hence always DIing upwards and away from their nearest stage border. This makes it even harder to kill using his forward trajectory moves, BUT makes it easier with his upwards moves.
All damage and kill percents are calculated using Marth against Mario on Final Destination - THIS DATA IS NOT FROM TRAINING MODE
Marth's Up Smash
Frame Out: 12/13
Damage Range: 17-21%
Marth's Up Smash, like many of his moves is annoying to pinpoint. It has a maximum of two physical hits, but many hitboxes, one protruding from THE SIDES of his feet (that can stage spike people at edges) and the rest are on the sword itself. There are a lot of 'hit boxes' to talk about.Damage Range: 17-21%
Insert picture of Upsmash here
- The direct 'tip' at the top of the sword deals 17% damage; killing at 109%.
All other 'hits' kill at final damage of between 135-137%. (about the 120% mark) - Just below the tip deals 17% damage.
- Below this point deals 18% damage.
- Below this point, around the area above his feet it deals 21%.
- Standing 'in' Marth (i.e. not to the sides of his feet) does 18% damage.
- The feet do 4% damage, depending on the opponent's damage/weight and proximity to Marth, they will either be hit with a second hit of 14% or 17%; i.e. total damage of 18% or 21%.
- While sliding [i.e. hyphen-smash] you may often get the hitbox above his feet and deal 21%.
Marth's Up-Air
Frame Out: 5 [auto-cancelled = YUM]
Damage Range: 10-11%, 13-14%
Marth's Up Air is a lot less complicated - NOT. It has at least two hit boxes. The attack extends above him at 135° - 45° angles (i.e. an arc from the front of him to behind).Damage Range: 10-11%, 13-14%
Insert picture of Up-Air here
- If the person is hit 'under' the main area of the arc (under 65° and above 115°), it seems it will register as a tipper (13%) but kill MUCH later (at least 15-20%) than a tipper in the main arc. These two hitboxes are not easy to hit with; generally only grounded opponents can be hit by this.
These are the 'main arc' (65°-115°) areas. - A tippered hit will deal 13% and kill at 120% damage.
- An untippered hit will deal 10% and is unsightly, killing FRESH at around 195%.
Marth's Dancing Blade Finale - Upwards
Frame Out: ? (Initial Dancing Blade hit at frame 4)
Damage Range: 10-13% (First 3 DB hits) + 6/8%
Dancing Blade is godly. If move refreshing wasn't so important in this game I could only see Marth being Top of Top Tier - seriously. Dancing Blade is one of Marth's best friends, our main damage racker and punisher, it is unfortunate that when it's time to kill this move will most likely be stale; as it is Marth's BEST upward kill move (Snake would be scared, very scared). To get the tip of the final hit you will generally always need to have the 3rd hit to also be upwards - it's character and damage dependant. This 'move' has at least three hit boxes.Damage Range: 10-13% (First 3 DB hits) + 6/8%
- If the attack tips it will deal 8% and kills at 102% on the ground (PERHAPS LOWER IF IN THE AIR). However in a real match you're looking at this being decal'd at least 3 times before hand; it shalt not be killing until the late 130s/140s...
Taking note of the picture is a 'blue outlined' area that is the approximate location of where a less 'damaging' hit will take place (i.e. grounded character) - If the opponent is above the 'blue outline' they will take 6% and kills between 125-130%.
- If the opponent is hit within the 'blue outline' the above applies, except an approximate extra 10% damage is required.
Marth's Up Tilt
Frame Out: 6
Damage Range: 8-10%, 12%
Marth's Up Tilt is a wonder - It has more hit boxes than I can count, let alone fathom. All of the utilt's hits are very dependant on the angle the opponent is hit in relation to Marth's body. The character's damage and weight seems to alter it as well. Some characters (i.e. Mario) being hit by the utilt at certain angles or if close (to the front) can be sent off in a way that looks similar to DOLPHIN SLASH. The utilt kill best at the 75°-115° range, the closer to 90° the better. The 8% damage hitbox can come out at the 45° mark.Damage Range: 8-10%, 12%
While the opponent is grounded...
- An untippered strike deals 9% and kills at 127%.
- A tippered strike, being extremely hard to hit with deals 12% and KILLS LATER than the untipperd attack after 140% damage.
While the opponent is in the air... and at the right angle - Both tipped and untipped strikes seem to kill at 117%.
Now many may be confused on why I'm bignoting utilt, doesn't seem too special - at best kills at around the same time as upsmash does. Perhaps you question the weird hitbox drawn in the 'utilt photo'?
The blue hitbox drawn above is the ultimate sweet spot in Marth's utilt. It deals 10% and sends opponents directly upwards, hence much easier to aim than trying to hit at the 90° angle to actually kill. The hitbox of utilt covers an arc directly to his feet behind him.
- "Sweet spot" utilt will kill grounded opponents at 108%.
- "Sweet spot" utilt will kill an opponent off the ground (in the 'blue hitbox' shown above) starting from 104%; yes only 2% higher than Dancing Blade.
To compare, Snake's utilt will kill Mario on FD starting from 96%, so Marth with 8% more damage can also kill Mario with his sweet spot. Meta Knight will die from the sweet spot starting from 94%.
Marth's Down Smash
Frame Out: 6 and 24?
Damage Range: 13-15%, 17-19%
The Down Smash has six hit boxes. It can hit opponents JUST above the ground, but not by much. It is actually a lot more powerful than you'd think... The angle of trajectory is the same on both sides but is different dependant on the hitbox.Damage Range: 13-15%, 17-19%
Insert picture of downsmash here
These hits will send an opponent at 80°/100° angles.
- At tippered range in the front it will deal 17% and kill from 98% damage.
- At tippered range at the back it will deal 16% and kill from 104% damage.
The next two are hitboxes within the sword, and not tipping they will send opponents in a 70°/110° angle. - If it strikes at the front untippered it will deal 14% and kill from 119% damage.
- If it strikes at the back untippered it will deal 13% and kill from 147% damage.
The next two hits are extremely close to Marth at his feet, they send in a trajectory similar to fsmash, at 45°/135° angles. They are also more POWERFUL than an fsmash - If it strikes at the front foot it will deal 14% and kill at 123% from the centre of F.D.
- If it strikes at the back foot it will deal 13% and kill at 124% from the centre of F.D.
Marth's Up Throw
Frame Out: 3 (for grab?)
Damage Range: 4%
Marth's up throw can kill at high percentages, it's somewhat of a last resort if a person just won't die at high percents and your moves are reasonably stale.Damage Range: 4%
Marth's up throw will kill at 180%.
Conclusion:
In terms of power:
Snake's Utilt (96%) > Dsmash (98%) > DB (102%) > Utilt (104%) > Up Smash (109%) > Uair (120%) > Up Throw (180%)
In terms of speed:
Grab (3fr) > Uair (5fr) > Utilt (6fr) = Dsmash (6fr) > Up-smash (12/13fr). DB is subjective with speed... but in theory 4frames. I have no idea what Snake's utilt frame start up is.
In terms of range:
Down Smash > Dancing Blade (1st strike) > Snake's Utilt > U tilt (front) > Up air (back) >= [really hard to tell] Standing Grab > Up Air (front)> Up Smash > U tilt (back)
... Thanks for reading, and I hope you have something new to try and test out
