Lucario Vs. Timbers (Match-up Thread Export)

~Rotation 15~ Peachy

Peach.
The Princess of the Mushroom Pantaloons.
Mario's #1 squeeze and Boswer's only source of ideas of taking over the Mushroom Kingdom. She's in from Melee for yet another reinstatement of this game we call fun.

Peach Can Fly Forever (< to be said in the highest voice you can). She keeps her own quirks while loses a few good ones. One such "ability" is the ability to float. Its a double edged sword to a degree. It allows her to get to platforms below her with ease of a princess. However, anything above her is out of her reach.




Toad and Turnips still come out of her wazoo, along with the random Mr.Saturn and the black bomb fiend. She magically whips out instruments of sports and wacks you with them. And backhanding and hovering aerials remain loyal subjects. Aerials are top notch as well.

Some note worthy changes though are her side-b and most importantly Dsmash. "Butt bomb" as it was refer'd to by some, was a high damage projectile of an a$$. In Brawl, the range it less and now, its hearts. The real kicker is Dsmash. This move made babies cry in melee. Now, its weak and not nearly as manly.

Along the lines of Lucairo vs Peach.
Its lucario's game, priority, range and aerials make this match tilted.

Behavior:

• Peach's like their ability to float, so they spend alot of time in the air, do not forget that can do any of their aerials out of it including UpB.
• Peach's uair beats our dair, inexplicably. Trying to dair a Peach from high above will get you KO'd.
  Peach's Fair is unpunishable on the ground when the Peach player knows what they're doing and spaces it correctly. If they're sloppy about it at all, you can shieldgrab her.
  Peach's Dair often trades hits with our Uair. Our uair will only go through if we space it to perfection or do the sneaky fast fall thing we found that one time.
  Peach's Nair and Bair are fantastic out of shield options for her punishment game and both have good knockback.
  -Infi-tan
• Peach has the following on Lucario.
  
  + Aerial priority. Her Fair destroys everything he has if properly spaced and her Bair outprioritizes the majority of his moveset. Fair chains do not work as her Nair comes out in two frames and trades hits with his fair (though you can fair > nair I believe).
  
  + Utilt. Lucario's love dair. Peaches utilt consistently outprioritizes it with no problem.
  
  + Turnps. Turnips lead into combos, whether it's glide toss to jab-grab (jabs lead to grabs consistently on Lucario out of hitstun from the jab) or glidetossing up and following with other attacks, or throwing the turnip in the air and chasing it with an attack. Turnips lead to gimps.
  
  + Gimps. I seriously rely on gimps. It's not unusual for me to land at least one gimp every match.
  
  + Float makes fsmash spam less effective.
  -Praxis

Fundamental Moves:

• Peach's ability to float greatly enhances their recovery, they can also stop it and start it again at will till it runs out of time, so they arent that great of a target for AS while recovering as we would like. her bair, fair, and uair are often abused. do not get hit by her fair, it might be a bit slow but it hurts. her usmash is pretty strong but pretty laggy too, it could KO you early if it lands down
  -G-Beast

Match-Up: 50:50 (Neutral)

How to Win:

• What I can say is that treating Peach like any other matchup will cause you to lose. Seeing her constantly in the air (FLOATING there, for god's sake!) Makes it very tempting to try and go to town with some fair chains. Don't. You'll get a crown to the face. And as it's been mentioned, a good peach won't have too much trouble getting around any attempts at fsmash walls either.
  
  Bair and AS are better bets for you here. Abuse them as much as you can against Peach, and only use fair or fsmash if you see a good opportunity.
  
  And do try to stay away from the edge, her edgegame definitely beats ours. And since Peach has a very hard time killing Lucci normally, the edge is where she'll be most aggressive.
  
  Almost forgot stages! I'm thinking the usual suspects here. Frigate Orpheon (We've established that clingable walls are a nice thing to have against Peach) and Luigi's Mansion? I've got no idea what to ban against her, though. Maybe you nice Peach mains could help field that one.
  -Col. Stauffenberg
• Lucario has the following on Peach:
  
  + Dair beats usmash, Peach's ONLY under 100% kill move even if all of her moves are fresh. While Peach can utilt a Lucario shooting for a dair, she'll almost never land usmash kills.
  
  + Peach's dair can't combo Lucario nearly as well as other characters. 30-40% combos instead of 50-60%.
  
  + Since Peach's fair can really **** Lucario in the air, and her dair isn't as effective of a combo move, fair it goes stale fast. Fair is Peach's 2nd best kill move, killing Lucario ~120% unstale. It will NEVER be nonstale unless the Peach just died.
  
  + Since Peach has a hard time killing Lucario at low %, the Lucario's aura makes him really powerful.
  
  + Aura ball spam can knock Peach out of float, even just little hits, and Lucario's rolls are fast. Lucario can camp her well.
  -Praxis
• Both characters have projectiles. Peach has a somewhat random projectile though and Lucario's requires that it be charged. Lucario has greater range and overall can be a reliable kill move. Peach can pull out the occasional deadly Turnip, or bob-bomb, but its not exactly a killing method to be relied upon. Peach can use her projectile to disturb Lucario while he is trying to charge and Lucario can make it somewhat more difficult for Peach to always find time to pull out her Turnips. But overall I dont think that either character really posses the power to mess with the others projectile game too much. Something that is important to note though is that Lucario can take advantage of Peach's projectile and use it against her, not to mention avoiding it. If I recall Peach has a good glide toss though, so it wont be too easy for Lucario to take advantage of Peaches Turnips for his own use.
  
  Both characters have relatively similar air games. Both characters can stop their downward or upward momentum giving them a lot more aerial options. Peach lacks a good midair jump, which somewhat limits her options, since she cant really use her second jump to avoid attacks, but she does have good aerial maneuverability and thus I would say that her aerial game is pretty much on par with Lucario's, a little more focused on power, but a bit less range too.
  -manhunter098

Recommended Stages:

• "Jungle Japes is widely considered to be Peach's best stage. The water restores her float, so as long as she doesn't die in the splash-stun she can ALWAYS make it back to the stage and even stall in the water indefinitely if the Klaptrap doesn't get her.
  
  The only downside to the stage is that it negates her usmash as a kill move (but boosts Fair). And we've already established that Peach's Usmash's usefulness is lost against Lucario because of his dair, so that makes it perfect for her.
  
  Japes is also supposed to be a good Lucario stage, is it not? I just want to warn you- don't pick it against Peach (unless it's one of the few Peaches that don't like the stage), it'll do Peach just as much good if not more.
  
  
  I ban Luigi's Mansion because I don't know how to play it- because WA has it illegal. However, several of the best Peaches (including Edrees, who is easily the best) insist that it is a godly Peach stage.
  
  Seems Peach's utilt's godly priority kills everyone and destroys the wall really fast, and her ftilt can lock you in for several hits, and she can live a lot longer than usual. And Dair combos become even more vicious because they bounce you off the ceiling.
  
  It just depends on whether or not the Peach player knows what they're doing.
  
  Orpheon's probably the best bet, since Peach relies on sweetspotting the ledge out of up-B (that one ledge can mess her up) and you have an extra recovery option when you grab the wall."
  -Praxis

Guys, Peach is a chick.

/thread
-dguy6789

So, a lot of the stuff posted in this rotation was a debate on edgeguarding, so if I missed anything, let me know. I definitely need a little more info on Fundamental Moves.

I always forget about this thread Jeepy. I wanna help more!

EDIT: Ok. Heres what I say about Peach's Fundamental Moves:

Up and Down-Smash: Some of Peach's overused moves. The Down-Smash was very powerful in Melee, and some of its potencial has moved to Brawl. It gives away excelent damage, since it can get you stuck in it, just like Pikachu's Down-Smash. DI'ing out of this usually works, just dont try to Shield Grab it: it pushes you back when you try to. DT'ing might work sometimes, but its hard to time it, since the Down-Smash comes out pretty quick. This move is usually used to plainly rack up damage and create or end combos. As for the Up-Smash: Its one of her strongest attacks. She will use this a lot when your above her or when she ends her combos. This is more easier to predict than the Down-Smash; just keep an eye out for it, since it can easily KO you at higher percentages.
F-Air and D-Air: These are the moves she uses A LOT. She knows how to combo with them, and KO with the F-Air easily at high percents. F-Air is a strong attack, and usually comes out of nowhere and suprises you. Keep an eye on these. Also, try Shield Grabbing this; it usually works. For the D-Air: It racks up damage quickly. DT'ing this wont really work, since she usually floats above you when she attacks. Watch out for the occasional D-Air > U-Air or D-Air > N-Air combos.
Peach Bomber: This really isnt that much of a common move, but its mostly used for spacing. This is VERY predictable when she uses it: Powershielding this is the way to go. DT'ing and Shield Grabbing dont work because she flies back after it hits. Try chasing after her with a grab or arial when you shield it, since it has some lag Frames after being used.
Turnips: The only projectile at Peach's desposal. IT has some wierd properties, like sometimes it will pick out a Mr. Saturn or a Bomb-Omb when plucked. Dont worry about her using this in the air TOO much, since it can only be plucked on the ground. DT'ing it works great, and catching it also works nicely. She usually uses it as a Glide Toss, but it can be predicted easily.

I hope this helped! Correct me freely (if needed) =D

=Trela=