Pierce7d
Wise Hermit
- Joined
- Dec 20, 2006
- Messages
- 6,289
- 3DS FC
- 1993-9028-0439
Alright, I've done quite a bit of experimenting with this, but I'm actually not finished, however, I wanted to get this out to the public with video yesterday, and that failed to happen. I have no vid, but I guess I'll share what I know so far.
(Note: as I'm a Marth player, I'm primarily talking about this AT from Marth's perspective. However, every time I say the name "Marth" you may interpret it as "Marth and/or Ike" since this AT works with both of them the same.)
This is confusing, so read carefully. I'll try to have demonstration vids up soon.
Have you ever noticed that when Marth counters an attack, even though the attack might have been really powerful, the counter sends them a little less far than you might have anticipated if the opponent got hit with their own attack? Well, I've discovered the reason why. It's not because counter is weaker, and it's not because the opponent is heavier than expected. It's because of, what I call, the Stun Jacket.
Part one: Counter and the Stun Jacket
When Marth successfully activates counter, his opponent acquires a special property which causes the next hit to deal additional hitstun and delayed knockback. Since the countering of the attack IS the next hit, this causes the opponent to go no where for a little while, as Marth dramatically and eloquently deflects the attack upon the opponent.
If an attack hits Marth, but the counter does not connect, the Stun Jacket disappears with no consequence. The Stun Jacket is equipped to the person who Marth counters, NOT to Marth.
Part two: The Initiating the Advanced Technique, Equipping the Stun Jacket
What I seem to have discovered is that if Marth counters a hitbox that is not part of a character's model/sprite/picture (IE: not an extension of their hurtbox, and not a normally visable or apparent weapon), then the Stun Jacket will remain equipped to the opponent. So far, I've confirmed this to work with:
The swirling tornado of MK's Mach Tornado
Falco's deflector
ALL WINDBOXES (Including Ness' Absorb, Pit's Wings of Icarus, Ganon's Utilt, D3's inhale, Kirby's Inhale, G&W's UpB)
It could possibly work with many more attacks, but I was unable to miss the attack of counter after successfully countering other attacks of this sort. I'm not finished testing though. It definitely works with all Windboxes though, although I could not get Toon Link's Dair to have the counter miss on the Landing Windboxes.
Countering a projectile attack will not give your opponent the jacket!
Part Three: What the Stun Jacket does
As previously mentioned, the Stun Jacket gets equipped to the target player whose attack was countered. From then on, if this player hits ANY other player, it will activate consume the Jacket on the first hit. Furthermore, if this player gets hit by any other player, it will activate and consume the Jacket on the first hit. When the Jacket is activated, the person who gets hit receives INCREASED HITSTUN and DELAYED (not decresed) KNOCKBACK. This is important, because it grants the victim more time to DI, which makes it appear like some attacks have decreased knockback.
Part Four: Important notes
While a character is wearing the jacket, they will get the effects of the jacket when they get hit, or will use the effects of the jacket when they hit someone else. Since it's probably best not to waste the jacket on hitting someone else, to keep the increased DI for yourself, I found a few loopholes.
A) The jacket completely ignores projectile attacks that the wearer of the jacket uses. This means if I were King DeDeDe or Pit wearing the Jacket (or anyone else with a projectile), I could spam away, and still retain the jacket.
B) Grabbing and throwing also don't consume the jacket. This means that DeDeDe wearing the Jacket will retain his ability to use his marvelous grab game, AND EVEN can still use inhale! However, if you pummel your opponent while holding them from a grab, this will result in the jacket being activated and consumed (lol)
Also, remember that the stun jacket is attached to the person who was countered. If D3 equips the jacket, I can fight as much as I want with other characters, and it will not affect D3's jacket.
Part Five: Practical Application
From what I've seen, this technique is most important in DOUBLES play. Say for instance Marth and King DeDeDe are on a team. It is very easy for Marth to counter inhale, without actually hitting King DeDeDe. This will put the jacket on D3. From there, he basically is wearing a special type of Armor that gives him more DI, and can proceed to camp and grab to his heart's content. Considering he was ALREADY hard to kill, a few frames of bonus DI is VERY useful, especially considering that with Marth's aid, he can reequip the jacket as many times as they want.
In singles, the most useful thing I've found for this is that it gives not only regular hitstun but also SHIELD hitstun. This means that some moves will become safe on block if spaced well, such as Marth's ftilt, so long as your opponent is wearing the Stun Jacket.
Part six: Water and Windboxes (You can skip this part, as it has little to do with the actual AT, or this topic at all. The most important thing to note is that the AT works with all Wind boxes, but doesn't seem to work with any Waterboxes.)
These are the terms I use to describe special hitboxes that have special properties.
Wind hitboxes, or Windboxes push a character, and are nearly invisible most of the time, though usually there is some visual of them in some form. They are used to provide suction and pushing affects. Common windboxes are D3's inhale, and Latios & Latias. They deal no damage, but still count as hitboxes.
Waterboxes are very similar, but last longer (generally) and have a much clearer visible animation. Common Waterboxes are Mario's FLUDD, Squirtle's Water Gun, and Kyogre. This AT works with all windboxes, but not waterboxes. Wind and Waterboxes are unexplored in this game, and many things are unknown about them. We need to find out more about the priority of these hitbox types, and how they interact with each other. Pit's have begun this a while ago by canceling out projectiles by Wing Dashing, but that's merely the surface. Has anyone ever tested what happens if D3 tries to inhale a person getting sucked toward Ganon who initiated Utilt? I plan to.
Part seven: Fun facts and additional observations
Ike can do it too.
This works even if one or both characters are invincible.
If a person is launched into and collides with a person wearing a Stun Jacket, it will activate.
For some characters, it's MUCH easier (or only possible) to put the Stun Jacket on in the air, since you'll be able to fall out of the way of counter.
Game & Watch's Uair does NOT have a Windbox. It seems to generate the environmental effect of Summit or PS2 wind arena.
If King D3 is not moving, and he inhales someone, while in his belly, they can push backwards or forwards, to make D3 move. Repeatedly tapping the direction quickly is most effective. You can push down to make him fall through a platform, or up to make him bounce clumsily. I believe this will be most effective in teams because you can push backwards to make D3 move backwards as an opponent attempts to Fsmash him and you, and make them miss hilariously. Then D3 can fire you at your opponents.
You can also break out of the star you're 'in' when he fires you, to adjust the distance of how far you get fired. This allows for good surprise attacks, especially right after applying a jacket. This probably also applies to Kirby, and the movement sections also seem to apply to Diddy's sideB grab (I think)
Part Eight: Things I still need to test
What are the moves this works with? I've confirmed it to work with all windboxes, so at first I thought "Mach Tornado must have Windboxes," but that was deconfirmed when I discovered that it also works with Falco's downB. I've also confirmed it to work with Ike's Aether, and G&W's Fire (both character's UpBs)
How do WindBoxes and WaterBoxes react with the rest of the hitboxes in the game?
What happens if I counter a move to give a character the jacket, and correctly miss that character, but hit another character (I'll check this out tomorrow hopefully.)
Any questions? I've done a lot of testing, so I can probably answer most of them.
Special thanks goes out to my crew mate Bschung, for helping me test this, and helping me discover it in the first place, which I realized that the same glitch that this was the same glitch we already knew about with Mach Tornado, except now it was working with D3's inhale, as we were practicing.
Special thanks goes out to Umbra, for pointing out that it could be Windboxes that had the effect, and helping me do additional testing to discover that this works with all Windboxes.
Special thanks to my cousin, for using Falco against me, and when I countered his deflector, I was able to instantly recognize the glitch for what it was, since I had been testing it so extensively. This disproved my theory that it worked exclusively with Windboxes, and gave birth to my new theory, about how it works with hitboxes that are not part of the character sprite.
